Selling Logos 4 in Bookstores?
A couple of days after downloading Logos 4 my family and I went to a large Christian Bookstore in Knoxville that was the CBA bookstore of the year not too long ago. I saw they still had Logos 3 on the shelves and went over to the software resource person and asked if they were going to carry Logos 4. She said she had never heard of it so I took her to the website and showed her a couple of videos. I told her I had managed two Christian bookstores for about 10 years and that I thought Logos was the best thing going. She called the store manager down to look at it and was pretty excited too.
Yesterday we went back to look at home school curriculum and I was surprised to see that they no longer had any Logos software. I didn't see the salesperson and didn't think to ask them while I was there why they no longer carried Logos which leads me to two questions.
1) Is Logos 4 available/going to be available to purchase in stores?
2) Have you all considered marketing it to the home school community?
Comments
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When I upgraded to Logos 4, two Logos sales reps told me that Logos will only be selling Logos 4 through their website and phone service. I also heard that they are moving into the direction of being the sole distributor or products that use the Logos engine - sort of like what iTunes does with its apps.
Michael
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Logos pulled out of the resellers before the launch of L4.
Prov. 15:23
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That seems to go against the direction of Logos wanting to be more widely adopted among the general US Christian community...
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Kevin, Thanks for the links. I can understand Bob's logic but having worked in Christian Retail for a long time I believe having no presence in bookstores will hurt in the long run. For one thing I met many brand new Christians over the years working in bookstores, one was the flagship for the state of Nebraska and the other one was at the HQ for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, and the first place they come to begin their Christian journey is a Christian Bookstore. I sold many "starter" CD's to them and they greatly appreciated it. I think it would be wise to reconsider having a limited presence at least. Since the engine itself is free, a small collection priced between $50 and $100 would be a great idea. People who have seen Logos on the shelf for many years and no longer see it may assume it is no longer available and if they see the advantages of being digital I think you'll never realize the business you will not gain.
One other issue is that Logos never had an in-store rep come in and never came and did demonstrations at store sale events, etc that would have helped them a lot. Maybe they did and I was never aware of it. There is also part of the market that will NEVER go online to find something as good as Logos. I think the problem was marketing, not the stores themselves.
I would still like to see Logos pursue the home school market. Maybe I should look into the Ambassador program. If you all had a booth at home school conventions doing demonstrations I think you would do well. Also if you could partner with some home school curriculums like Alpha Omega you could really open up some doors for business.
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PeterLi said:
That seems to go against the direction of Logos wanting to be more widely adopted among the general US Christian community...
From what Bob Pritchett said; the Christian bookstore route was just not panning out for Logos.
The "attrition" was very high (software that mysteriously disappeared and therefore Logos absorbed the loss) and the sales were very weak...it was never a large part of their market...so they decided to just severe the tie.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I think they should push into Walmarts and other large retail chains, like the Purpose Driven books and other popular Christian titles. Many large retail stores (even some supermarkets) gladly stock paper Bibles for people to buy as gifts on special occasions... why not have Logos Bible software right next to the gift Bibles as another option, especially for people buying for more tech-savvy friends or loved ones?
And how about large bookstore chains like Barnes & Noble, Borders, Chapters? They already have a large Christian selection in each store. And B&N and Amazon are getting into ebooks...
The possibilities are boundless, if Logos wants to grow its audience.
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Michael Lyman said:
2) Have you all considered marketing it to the home school community?
Yes, we are interested in the home school community. At this point our offerings are still quite limited, however. If you have specific suggestions as to how we might strengthen our offerings in this area, I'd be glad to hear them, or you can send them to suggest@logos.com.
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This is true. What's more, I have already seen people being steered away from Logos at Christian bookstores. This is going to hurt market share, and it is a gift to other Bible programs. At least that is my opinion.
There should be some entry level Logos packages available in every Christian bookstore - as a minimum.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
PeterLi said:
That seems to go against the direction of Logos wanting to be more widely adopted among the general US Christian community...
You might interpret the move as some evidence that that is not Logos' direction. I think Logos knows that it isn't competing well against other programs that are targeted primarily at Christian lay people. Logos, from a pricing, content, and technology stand-point is above what most Christians in the pew are interested in. For many, public domain works and a few simple tools are all they ever want. For that reason Logos is putting effort into reaching people who have a much greater interest or need for in-depth Bible study, esp. with original language capability, and with modern, top-notch Biblical resources. Often word-of-mouth or a mention by a teacher or pastor counts more than a demo in a Christian book store. And in most cases you couldn't get a demo in a bookstore anyway, just a pretty box with a DVD inside.
The case can also be made that Christian bookstores are dying. People are more and more shopping on the Internet. Logos is trying to use social networking and its web presence to promote its product. I know that they have a challenge to get the word out, but they have the marketing figures to show that Christian bookstores were not productive for them.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I would be interested in how many here got their first Logos product from a Christian Book Store - local or seminary? I know I did - after receiving a substantial Christmas gift from the church I was pastoring.
Blessings,
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Floyd Johnson said:
I would be interested in how many here got their first Logos product from a Christian Book Store - local or seminary?
Bet you knew about Logos before you went to the bookstore to buy it. You could have gone online and ordered it if that was the only way available. More to the point: who learned about Logos for the first time at a bookstore?
BTW: count me as one who did not buy through a store, and learned about it through a publication.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark A. Smith said:
More to the point: who learned about Logos for the first time at a bookstore?
I did - and it was version 1.0 [:D]
But, yes, I know what you mean.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Floyd Johnson said:
got their first Logos product from a Christian Book Store
A seminary student mentioned it to me in the early 1990's -- I think she was beta testing
My local Christian bookstore gave me a $10? (sampler) - they probably paid for it themselves - in the mid 1990's .
as I was a Commodore + Amiga user back then, I could not even install it until getting my first Windows 95 machine (in early 1998?).
My first purchases (yes, from a Bookstore) was a 2.0 "Level 3" plus the stand-alone "Lesson Builder."
There was NO internet to inform me of Logos existence -- except a few hard-to-access bulletin boards or extremely expensive AOL feeds.
Even "dial-up" in my town was "slow."
Unfortunately, even Level "3" only had a couple of up to date commentaries and dictionaries. It was mostly language materials (which I had not yet stated using) or public domain stuff "dressed up" in Logos technology.
I never really started to use Logos until our denominational Bookstore introduced me to the (purple coloured) 115 unlock Nelson Ultimate CD. Finally, more "up-to-date commentaries, dictionaries, background material etc. It was THAT CD which really helped me to 'take off" into Logos - land!
Regards, SteveF
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The increasing popularity of distance learning classes at seminaries is a great marketing opportunity for Logos. The company has the opportunity to become the theological library of choice for students.
Distance learning classes have many advantages over tradition education. Not having to quit your job, pack your belongings and move your family to a new state are just a few. However, there are disadvantages. One downside is that many students do not have access to a theological library. They are at a disadvantage when writing research papers. Logos 4 can eliminate this shortcoming. In fact, Logos can give a student an advantage over someone using a traditional library. A card catalog cannot complete with the kind of searches available in Logos 4. By the way, if you are a seminary student you need to get the Theological Journal Library volumes 1-12. When you refer to a journal article in a research paper it is far more impressive to your professor than referring to a Bible encyclopedia. I know because I have graded many papers.
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Mark A. Smith said:
More to the point: who learned about Logos for the first time at a bookstore?
I learned about it for the first time from a guy named Bob whose office was down the hall from mine and who was goofing around making some sort of Bible software thingy in his spare time. He ended up quitting his job and starting this company that makes Logos... [:)]
But I've seen the boxes loads of times in bookstores and if I hadn't had the inside knowledge of the product, that would have served to increase my familiarity with the name so that when I did eventually decide to buy something, Logos would have been what I'd Google to see if there was a way to download it if I couldn't find it in stores anymore. Now that it's no longer in stores, they're relying entirely on publication advertising or word of mouth to get new customers. I guess it's been working since they've gotten a whole flurry of new customers. But I still think there would be more who would only hear about it through their local Christian store. However, the cost of keeping up that distribution channel probably isn't justified for the few more customers that might come on board that way.
I think they'd do better to focus more attention on marketing to seminary students. Loosen up their licensing agreement so seminary libraries can provide it free for all students to use while in the library. Send more trainers to do demos at seminaries for the library staff and faculty. Send Morris Proctor around to do discounted MP seminars for seminarians.
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Perhaps the Ambassador program will be fruitful. I think there are regional gatherings of Christians and Pastors that would be great places to show product and do demos if the right connections could be made, booths bought, etc. I've never seen a Logos booth or set-up at anywhere here in New England. I don't go to everything so may have missed it, but I think there are some direct sell opportunities that would get Logos out in front of people and whet their appetite for the product.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I'm betting that Zondervan is going to "box" several different packages, and distribute them through the Family Christian Stores chain. Also they'll probably have them accessible through standard wholesale channels.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Rosie Perera said:
I think they'd do better to focus more attention on marketing to seminary students. Loosen up their licensing agreement so seminary libraries can provide it free for all students to use while in the library. Send more trainers to do demos at seminaries for the library staff and faculty. Send Morris Proctor around to do discounted MP seminars for seminarians.
Those are some great ideas, Rosie.
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Rosie Perera said:
I think they'd do better to focus more attention on marketing to seminary students. Loosen up their licensing agreement so seminary libraries can provide it free for all students to use while in the library. Send more trainers to do demos at seminaries for the library staff and faculty. Send Morris Proctor around to do discounted MP seminars for seminarians.
In the seminary I attended the main exegesis profs, the ones who teach OT and NT, Hebrew and Greek use the "other program." In fact one of them does training seminars for that program. So my impression is that to get students of this seminary you will need to get Logos in front of them in a real way, otherwise they will only see the value in the way their professors are doing things and then invest their money that way. I know there are many who can run both Logos and other programs beneficially but in seminary they are less likely because of not wanting to buy resources in multiple formats.
I once offered one of those profs to show any interested seminary students Logos and he expressed his doubts that any students would want to because no exegesis profs use it.
Prov. 15:23
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Kevin Becker said:
In the seminary I attended the main exegesis profs, the ones who teach OT and NT, Hebrew and Greek use the "other program." In fact one of them does training seminars for that program. So my impression is that to get students of this seminary you will need to get Logos in front of them in a real way, otherwise they will only see the value in the way their professors are doing things and then invest their money that way. I know there are many who can run both Logos and other programs beneficially but in seminary they are less likely because of not wanting to buy resources in multiple formats.
I once offered one of those profs to show any interested seminary students Logos and he expressed his doubts that any students would want to because no exegesis profs use it.
None of the exegesis profs at my seminary used Logos either. I'm not sure most of them were using Bible study software at all, but the one who I know was is a big Mac evangelist and got several of the other faculty members to switch to Macs. He used a certain other program which was the only thing going on the Mac at the time, but he was willing to sit down one day with me and a Logos sales rep who visited, to see a demo of Logos. At the time he wasn't suitably impressed to see it ever making inroads for serious exegetical use, but he was glad for the demo, as he had not been aware of Logos's capabilities at all prior to that. I suspect that Logos is strong enough now to go head-to-head with "that other program." But it still needs to do a lot to overcome the reputation it has among exegesis profs and users of "that other program" as being a lightweight Biblical languages product, mostly a digital library. And if there is still something it doesn't do well that "that other product" can do, it needs to remedy that situation, and then go after the exegesis profs as customers. Once they win them over, all the seminary students will come tumbling after, and they're the future pastors, who will recommend Logos to their congregations.... You see? The exegesis profs are the bottleneck.
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I haven't been to seminary but Lord willing, one day I will...
But....
The analogy to guitars is the same (I used to play guitar)
One of the reigning Kings of the Electric Guitar world is Gibson guitars and their flagship model is the Les Paul.
There are other makers who blow the doors of them in quality and value...BUT....
The stigma associated with the "secondary brands" lives on...you buy what is a much better guitar in quality and price, but spend your whole playing career saying...."....no...it's not a genuine Gibson Les Paul, but it's so much better...."
This is Logos' position...they must overcome the stigma of public opinion that (the other program) is "...the only program to use for serious exegesis of the text..." (to quote a current radio commercial)
that's a tough thing and in my mind, it only gets conquered through time and spreading the word by demonstration...the more Logos gets into the hands of those profs..the more chance they have of making inroads and ..showing people that things have changed.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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One thing everyone is forgetting. The developing world is where christianity is spreading. We are now sending missionaries to Europe and North America to evangelize. This market is not being tapped into as it should.
Put the software on disks, have posters with the web address, give out demo cds, encourage people to copy and distribute them, with videos, and links to purchase the product. Many people who go into brick and mortar buildings to purchase products will see the disks, posters etc., and become familiar that Logos even exists.
Get ambassadors from several denominations, to market the product after being throughly trained. In the Bahamas, we have been hosting Morris to train persons about the software, for several years and the word does not seem to have gotten out past our denominations. Only a few persons who are not Seventh-day Adventists ever come. Many people go to Bookstores and purchase books.
Let potential customers who usepurchase via the web, have a box for the purchaser to give an account number or email address of the person who referred them, so that, that individual gets the credit.
In the help dialogue box on the softare, not only should it say "tell a friend" but rather "Tell a Friend:Get a Free Book". Make athe refer a friend prominent on the home page, with the option to turn it off, so that people will be more aware of it.
There are many "Christians" within the Bahamas, computers galore and internet a plenty. Most people do not have bandwidth caps, and this applies to 90% of the population, spread out over four islands.
We have other hard currency areas such as Cayman, Turks and Caicos, Bermuda, Puerto Rico among others. These areas are untouched.
Give serious attention to expanding the market beyond North America. That is my two cents worth.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Just for another perspective:
I am a lay person--just interested in Bible study and can't afford all the paper books. I'm a widowed, working, homeschooling mom.
I bought my first Logos product as eBible, upgraded to L3, and now have L4 Bible Study library. Although I drool for higher libraries, I really do not need any original language stuff because it would be useless to me. If eBible had not been available, I would have gone to another product to find something that was within my price range at the time. I have given eBible as a gift often, and at least one of those who received the gift is saving up to invest in L4 at a basic level.
At one point, I received an email that marketed eBible for very cheap. That's when I bought several for gifts. So that might be an angle to look into. After purchasing eBible and falling in love, I then added the McArthur library and the Grudem Systematic Theology to it, one as a personal purchase, the other as a gift.
Mostly I use my L4 for personal bible study and as a Sunday School teacher.
If Logos is interested in the homeschooling community, something like eBible is a GREAT way to do it: low initial investment, good study tools, but just not quite enough--an incentive to upgrading (it looks like eBible is still available through Nelson)! Most homeschool families have a curriculum budget, and so would have maybe $100 to put down on a basic package. Market it through homeschool conventions, give a modicum of training to people like me, who are already homeschool parents and do it through seminars and booth sales, and also through the discount curriculum distributors. You will hit a lot of families who are already in the ministry and many who are like me; just love Bible study, teach Sunday School, and would love to be able to do so in a deeper way. You will also hit a lot of growing children who will be ministers, pastors and missionaries soon, and those who aren't will be serving in our churches.
I would be a willing guinea pig to taking L4 into homeschool conventions as a trained demonstrator...
Esther
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While the argument for pulling out has been well explained (I still disagree) I for one would have never of heard of Logos and would have never become a Logos user without seeing and buying it in a Christian book-store.
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Rosie Perera said:Kevin Becker said:
In the seminary I attended the main exegesis profs, the ones who teach OT and NT, Hebrew and Greek use the "other program." In fact one of them does training seminars for that program. So my impression is that to get students of this seminary you will need to get Logos in front of them in a real way, otherwise they will only see the value in the way their professors are doing things and then invest their money that way. I know there are many who can run both Logos and other programs beneficially but in seminary they are less likely because of not wanting to buy resources in multiple formats.
I once offered one of those profs to show any interested seminary students Logos and he expressed his doubts that any students would want to because no exegesis profs use it.
None of the exegesis profs at my seminary used Logos either. .............The exegesis profs are the bottleneck.
I guess the school I attended is an exception. I first heard about Logos while in Bible College while taking Greek (Logos 2 was the current version). Several professors and fellow students had it but I was on a very tight budget and couldn't afford it.. When I entered seminary, my Hebrew classes required the Logos software, and there was a very hefty student discount offered for a limited time at the start of the semester so I bought it. I've never regreted it. I love demonstrating it to people who have never heard of it.
The school is a very big supporter and user of Logos. They have had Morris Proctor Seminars at the school several times to give training. I don't think they are even aware that "the other program" exists.
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Jeremiah Daniel Morris said:
I for one would have never of heard of Logos and would have never become a Logos user without seeing and buying it in a Christian book-store.
ditto [:)]
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Argument from pragmatism...we all have these feelings over things "...all I know is that I've had a sony VCR and it's never given me trouble so Sony is a reliable brand...."
But that's not the situation here....only Logos knows the significance of (or lack of) of CBS sales, and I'm sure that they made a business move based on hard evidence that made sense to them...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Me too!!!
eBible was the first Bible software that I ever bought. If it had not been in a bookstore, I probably would not be using it today. Over the years, I have upgraded to Scholar's.
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My first Bible software was a competitors brand (no, not the "other" one but another one) I bought at a CBS in the mid 90's. It was few days later that I first learned about Logos, from reading a software comparison review in a Christian magazine. I then went to a different CBS to buy Logos (the first store didn't carry it) - I paid list price (I think $500) for Logos 2.0 Level 3. I found out a few days later I could have saved over $100 if I had bought it on-line. Seemed like all CBS's were charging higher (list) prices than on-line venues for Bible software at that time, so I stopped using them for Logos compatible software (except for entry level eBible packages at around $25 I gave as gifts).
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15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)
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