Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos
Comments
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Justin Gatlin said:James Johnson said:
When it comes to believing if they can or can't sustain by doing this... Well go take a look at their current job offers salaries. Over 200k. If they can pay people 200k a year plus huge bennifits then I think they're doing fine.
If you want experienced software engineers, you have to pay their market value. I don't think looking at salaries without that context is very helpful. Logos salaries are not out of line with what similar employees would make elsewhere.
I never said it was out of line, I was saying if they can afford 200k positions then they are a company not hurting. They are currently looking to fill many positions of this caliber.
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Dave Hooton said:James Johnson said:
Wait, so we will have different subscriptions so for example if I'm not a pastor (I'm not) and don't ever use sermon builder (I don't) I'll have options to choose other features ?
Logos Pro (tier 3) is aimed at Pastors and it seems you will have 3 other tiers to choose from, but tier 4 will likely have the same features.
Thanks for replying to me, so do you think there will be a subscription made for people who just study? And will it have all the data sets?
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James Johnson said:
do you think there will be a subscription made for people who just study? And will it have all the data sets?
I can only speculate at this time.
You may have to decide what tier is "Study" from the description provided and it may be a compromise in terms of the data sets and features you require (look how the Data Sets and Features are split between the four L!0 Feature sets).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:James Johnson said:
do you think there will be a subscription made for people who just study? And will it have all the data sets?
I can only speculate at this time.
You may have to decide what tier is "Study" from the description provided and it may be a compromise in terms of the data sets and features you require (look how the Data Sets and Features are split between the four L!0 Feature sets).
Ok. I don't own theL10 full feature set but I sub to connect essentials. One of the reasons I like essentials is for the LRC's I really hope hat there's an option to either rent or sub... For these.
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Dave Hooton said:James Johnson said:
do you think there will be a subscription made for people who just study? And will it have all the data sets?
I can only speculate at this time.
You may have to decide what tier is "Study" from the description provided and it may be a compromise in terms of the data sets and features you require (look how the Data Sets and Features are split between the four L!0 Feature sets).
Ok. I don't own theL10 full feature set but I sub to connect essentials. One of the reasons I like essentials is for the LRC's I really hope hat there's an option to either rent or sub... For these.
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Yes exactly. I place myself into being one of this type of customer.
(Regarding Connect and Logon Now etc, often it seemed I already had paid for the "free book" of the mth, and kind of felt ripped off. More so if it was one of the titles for that unfinished set I paid $999 for, and am still waiting to get more than 15 or titles. Way to make angry customers ... as all the many threads on that topic continue to show every mth or two, for the last 10 or 15 years ...)
Logos: Please respect those that have already paid "truck loads", over the years.0 -
I just followed the links to see the 430+ books in Pro, and almost every single title showed as already in my library. So I either have them via my Connect Subscription, or because over the years I've purchased "way too many books" here on Logos.com. Or both.
So for me, it seems right now the Pro would only add an AI search, so thats a Pass for me.
I'll review when my Sub comes up for renewal, and/or when the new details come out later in the year.0 -
JimTowler said:
Regarding Connect and Logon Now etc, often it seemed I already had paid for the "free book" of the mth, and kind of felt ripped off.
I don't quite follow. The Free Book of the Month s not part of a subscription, but is available to all customers (even to those who never paid one dollar to Logos!) and of course those having a large library will often find they already own that book. I experience the same - however, I try to have a different attitude about it. Nobody promised me a free, new, interesting book per month, and if others get this and I already have it in my library, I can be thankful for what I have and be glad for those of lesser opportunities who now get it.
Have joy in the Lord!
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The FC subscription includes three Faithlife Classic books a month.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
The FC subscription includes three Faithlife Classic books a month.
Yes I know, that's why I used some adjectives regarding the FBOM. The monthly free Classic books are not selected by Logos but by the subscriber from a list of thousands of books - which all are Public Domain books (i.e. royalty-free for Logos). I only remember one forum user ever who claimed he owned all of them. Such a situation doesn't fit Tim's description in his post, though.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Responding to various concerns. I agree to whoever above warned of too much reliance on commentaries. I remember thinking that thought when using my first Bible Software (WordSearch) 33 years ago in my first pastorate. I wanted to be sure I got my messages first of all from the Lord. That said, over the years I have learned to check trusted commentaries and language dictionaries to assure I was on the right path with a given passage. Bible software has grown and developed to help this process. Indeed, the right software can greatly speed the process of "checking". More speed in my books to me has meant more time away from them and in the presence of the Lord (yes, I also hope to be in God's presence when I am in my books, too). With information more quickly available, and more quickly perused, I can do more of the heavy and profitable work of meditation on the Word, Bible memorization, and prayer. Bible software has done this for me. That said, I believe that AI has simply added to my speed in doing the grunt work of cross-checking myself with the work of others. AI makes it even faster. I think of the benefit of AI as I did when I learned that more RAM and a Solid-State drive could make my computer work faster. So in many ways AI benefits me by more quickly getting to stuff, summarizing stuff, recommending stuff for me. And when this happens, I can spend more time with prayer, meditation, and memorization. I am not here arguing the cost of things, nor how much Logos software engineers are paid. I expect to pay for these things, and will as the Lord leads. Just as my first Word Processor sped things up for me in Seminary (DTS 1984-89). Before that, because I don't type, I would hand write every paper, and my wife would type them out--painstaking and time-consuming work. Now with the word processor, I could do it all myself--typing, texting, copying. pasting. The job was so much faster. At the time, this meant more time for me to spend with my wife and kids when not in classes. The point here is that advancement in technology, to me, means--theoretically--two things: 1.) better access to critical information, and 2.) more time for important things--time with family and the Lord. I put the Logos AI advancements in this category, and I applaud them for this.
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On a similar note, I feel a bit left out as I started with Libronix, then moved to Logos in 2008 and started purchasing a variety of individual resources, resource sets and libraries. Then in 2012 with Logos 5, I started purchasing upgrade packages that included the full feature sets and I did that through Logos 9. But with Logos 10, I finally opted for a Silver package instead of Gold, because it had everything in the full feature set except for the Print Library Catalog and the Automatic Translation Tool--two tools I'd never use as I don't have a print library and I don't need anything translated.Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Caleb Black said:Mark, What about those of us who have not yet bought the entire Logos 10, however, have thousands of books, and thousands of dollars invested into our library? Would we not be eligible for the discount because we have not bought the latest version, although we still have spent thousands on the program? Thanks!
The discount is mostly given because users with the L10 Full Feature Set already own most of the features and content in Logos Pro. We're still figuring out how to handle situations like yours. Depending on what level of feature set you own, it may be worth your while to upgrade to L10 in order to secure the discount. Maybe later in the year, we'll have some special offers available to make that an even better deal.
I now have a decent size library (5,300+ resources) and a history of purchasing the full feature sets until Logos 10, when I opted for a feature set missing just two of the new tools. And yes, in addition to buying feature sets, I was also a Logos Now/Logos Connect subscriber from 2017 through 2023. I finally stopped that subscription last year because I felt it had lost too much value to me over the years.
So here I sit (my own doing... I know), just missing both of the paths to a discounted Logos Pro subscription: 1) Via owning the Logos 10 full feature set, because after many year of buying full feature sets (I opted out of two feature tools in Logos 10 I'd never use)... and 2) Missing the discounted price via being a Logos Now subscriber, because I just terminated my subscription in 2023, after six years of paying for that.
As Maxwell Smart would say... "Missed it by thaaaat much!" [:^)]
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I have been using Logos for years and have the full feature set. Logos is a daily part of my life and it is a joy to use, both for personal study and devotions as well as for teaching and preaching.
I have always been relieved that Logos is not a subscription only based tool and I have let go of other software and services that have gone down this route. Having heavily invested in the software, I am greatly alarmed by the possibility of Logos becoming exclusively subscription for all new features.
Please keep a one-off purchase option for new features, even if this excludes AI services. I save up for the features and products I need and would not sign up for a monthly subscription. Monthly subscriptions are effectively like a rental and it means a lot to me to know I have definitely purchased something and will not lose it if I don’t continue to pay. Monthly costs continue to rise and the choice of one-off payments to ‘own’ the feature, book or product is important to me.
Thank you for asking for feedback. Please leave your customers the option of one-time purchases for feature sets as well as for books.
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I think a subscription could be positive for a lot of users. I mentioned this in earlier post. I would like to see an option to earn credits through the subscription that would allow subscribers to use credits to purchase features in future versions of Logos. If someone stopped subscribing, the person would have access to the features they purchased.
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I think a subscription could be positive for a lot of users. I mentioned this in earlier post. I would like to see an option to earn credits through the subscription that would allow subscribers to use credits to purchase features in future versions of Logos. If someone stopped subscribing, the person would have access to the features they purchased.
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I think a subscription could be positive for a lot of users. I mentioned this in earlier post. I would like to see an option to earn credits through the subscription that would allow subscribers to use credits to purchase features in future versions of Logos. If someone stopped subscribing, the person would have access to the features they purchased.
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I think a subscription could be positive for a lot of users. I mentioned this in earlier post. I would like to see an option to earn credits through the subscription that would allow subscribers to use credits to purchase features in future versions of Logos. If someone stopped subscribing, the person would have access to the features they purchased.
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I think a subscription could be positive for a lot of users. I mentioned this in earlier post. I would like to see an option to earn credits through the subscription that would allow subscribers to use credits to purchase features in future versions of Logos. If someone stopped subscribing, the person would have access to the features they purchased.
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I think a subscription could be positive for a lot of users. I mentioned this in earlier post. I would like to see an option to earn credits through the subscription that would allow subscribers to use credits to purchase features in future versions of Logos. If someone stopped subscribing, the person would have access to the features they purchased.
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I think a subscription could be positive for a lot of users. I mentioned this in earlier post. I would like to see an option to earn credits through the subscription that would allow subscribers to use credits to purchase features in future versions of Logos. If someone stopped subscribing, the person would have access to the features they purchased.
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I’ve heard Daniel Norwood (and some others?) suggest that some kind of “credit” system, or “lease to buy” system, so that people could stop renting / subscribing at a given point, and then buy the features as a perpetual ownership addition to the Logos 10 platform we have now -- they’ve suggested this might be a reasonable alternative or bridge.
However, from what I’ve understood from all that’s been communicated by Logos staff, in this thread and in emails, is that the decision they are still mulling over is whether to offer any further perpetual licenses to ANY non-AI features, at ALL, EVER. I don’t think they are at a loss as to know HOW to sell them - that’s easy. They’ve been doing it for three decades. The features will already be IN the code that is ON the local PC. I’m not sure people realize that. The subscription simply sends an unlock to tell the engine on the PC that the user is allowed to implement that feature for that day or month.
Their decision is SOLELY related to their income projections. Will they make more money by trapping users into permanent subscriptions, or lose more money by turning off customers who’ve been faithfully paying for years or decades. The new and future customers that don’t have tens of thousands of dollars invested aren’t trapped - they can more easily choose to walk away, use other tools, whatever … without that prior investment being a factor.
My point here is simple. Logos doesn’t need help knowing HOW to offer both subscriptions AND the option for periodic perpetual license feature upgrade-purchases. They just need to figure out which will make them more money.
If their concern was to do the best for their customers, they would offer both and not force hundreds of thousands or millions of customers to make a difficult, unhappy choice, possibly feeling betrayed in the process. THAT would be the path of integrity.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
In this thread, I see $9.99 all over the place for the "discounted" monthly Logos Pro subscription price, but haven't found what the regular price will be.
Is that somewhere in this thread?
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Rick Ausdahl said:
In this thread, I see $9.99 all over the place for the "discounted" monthly Logos Pro subscription price, but haven't found what the regular price will be.
Is that somewhere in this thread?
No, Rick. This is the Early Bird price, + only it is mentioned.
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Thank you, scooter.
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I have been using Logos Bible Software for 20 years. I subscribed to Logos Now when it rolled out. I also subscribed to Faithlife Connect when it rolled out. And, I subscribed to Logos Pro when it rolled out (after beta testing the AI functions for a few weeks). Each major rollout was not without some bumps and bugs, but Faithlife resolved those issues, landed on their feet, and as a subscriber, I ended up better off than before the rollout. That tells me Faithlife has the tenacity and resources to make Logos Bible Software better and users better off. I am grateful for their interest in and support of their clients and am looking forward to learning more about the multi-tiered plan they are working on. Mark and/or Phil has said there are currently about 10,000 Logos subscribers on a variety of subscription plans. Seems to me that's a lot of people interested in the concept of subscription plans.
Only a limited amount of information has been shared about Logos Pro because Faithlife has chosen to share their initial thoughts and plans so that we users can share our interests and preferences. Based on their posts, it seems clear they are listening to us and are adjusting their plans to accommodate as many of our needs as they can - after all, that's in their best interest too. If your not sure if this is right for you, please be gracious to Faithlife and kindly share your interests and preferences, then watch what Faithlife actually rolls out before deciding what you will do. Attacking Faithlife and complaining about a plan that has not yet been defined is not helpful.
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Given that this thread has now been running for a couple of weeks and there's been a bit of repetition on some of the questions asked, it it worthwhile for Faithlife to put up a questionnaire asking people what they think or want. This would also make it easier to collate people's opinions. As an initial suggestion, four possible answers to each question: Strongly agree; Mildly agree; Mildly disagree; Strongly disagree. The questions could be along the lines of: I would like a subscription model; I would like to be able to make one-off purchases of feature sets; I would like to be able to subscribe and then buy feature sets at a discount; I am enthusiastic about AI enhancement in Logos; etc.
[Editied to put a space between 'at' and 'a' in the last line.]
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Bede said:
put up a questionnaire asking people what they think or want. This would also make it easier to collate people's opinions. As an initial suggestion, four possible answers to each question: Strongly agree; Mildly agree; Mildly disagree; Strongly disagree. The questions could be along the lines of: I would like a subscription model; I would like to be able to make one-off purchases of feature sets; I would like to be able to subscribe and then buy feature sets at a discount
[Y] Great idea.
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Bede said:
Given that this thread has now been running for a couple of weeks and there's been a bit of repetition on some of the questions asked, it it worthwhile for Faithlife to put up a questionnaire asking people what they think or want.
We're looking at doing exactly that. Stay tuned.
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"Customers who own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set or subscribe to Faithlife Connect (excluding Starter and Mobile) can purchase the subscription for just $9.99/month. When Logos Pro launches in the fall with the other tiers of subscription, you’ll have the option to maintain your subscription to Logos Pro or switch to one of the other subscription tiers at a continued large discount."
This seems okay, but, I'm really not a fan of subscription based products because after being a faithful sub for years, you lose everything on the minute you unsubscribe. It has always felt a little dishonest to me, is their a plan to include a free to keep resource on a monthly basis? Something more than the current "free" books of the month. Perhaps one volume of a set of our choosing, or a credit amount that can be saved?
I want to reiterate something someone said earlier, I really hate to see Logos going the way of every other secular service in the. Recurring fees that never deliver ownership. aka: rental service0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Bede said:
Given that this thread has now been running for a couple of weeks and there's been a bit of repetition on some of the questions asked, it it worthwhile for Faithlife to put up a questionnaire asking people what they think or want.
We're looking at doing exactly that. Stay tuned.
Mark, you probably already thought of this, but I was thinking it might be good on the survey to find out what kind of a user is responding so you can align the user responses to the different tiers of you plan (and the tools to include in each tier).
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
Hi Mark, you've been asking for feedback on that point. Here are my thoughts.
I'd be very interested in switching from Logos Connect to purchasing the full-feature set, instead of another new subscription model.
Personally, in hindsight I wish I had simply continued buying the full feature sets along with new libraries, instead of opting for the subscriptions when they came out in the past. The benefits haven't seemed to be what I expected (although I signed on in an effort to support the company more than anything else). Past experience makes me much more reluctant to opt for another (more expensive) subscription model just to keep up having access to the full feature set (I'm not really interested in AI features).
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Mark, I currently have Logos 10 Silver (full feature set except for the print library and translation features). By what date do I have to upgrade to the full feature set in order to qualify for the discounted Logos Pro subscription rate?Mark Barnes (Logos) said:How much will early access to Logos Pro cost?
Customers who own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set or subscribe to Faithlife Connect (excluding Starter and Mobile) can purchase the subscription for just $9.99/month. When Logos Pro launches in the fall with the other tiers of subscription, you’ll have the option to maintain your subscription to Logos Pro or switch to one of the other subscription tiers at a continued large discount.
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I have tested the Pro. I wholeheartedly believe it is worth $4.99. At least for now. Am I impressed? It was ok. I wouldn't say "wow!" Note: this is my opinion on it at this point.
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How'd you get it for $4.99?? Cost me $9.99?????
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
How'd you get it for $4.99?? Cost me $9.99?????
I don't think he was saying he got it for $4.99, but that he thinks it's only worth $4.99 for now.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
It's possible that some of you might be offered a trial and others not because the marketing folks are running some tests right now.
What shouldn't happen is that the /early-access page says one thing, and then the billing page says something else, as Frank was experiencing. We fixed a bug that we thought would help with this earlier today, but we'll look again.
Does that mean we will all be offered a free trial?
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Yasmin Stephen said:xnman said:
How'd you get it for $4.99?? Cost me $9.99?????
I don't think he was saying he got it for $4.99, but that he thinks it's only worth $4.99 for now.
I'd agree with $4.99. Or $60/year. Mark says 'there's more!' I guess.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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So, I would like to follow up on my previous response to Mark's post. After giving this serious thought, I have moved away from my initial willingness to "try a subscription." As someone who has used Logos for nearly a decade now and paid for each new release and the tools/features with each upgrade, I did so happily. Why? Because I love the software and what it is capable of... plus I was purchasing something I thought I would be able to own and use for the rest of my life and ministry. However, now I am seriously wondering if I was misguided.
I think Jim Dean's assessment is a fair critique:
"...from what I’ve understood from all that’s been communicated by Logos staff, in this thread and in emails, is that the decision they are still mulling over is whether to offer any further perpetual licenses to ANY non-AI features, at ALL, EVER. I don’t think they are at a loss as to know HOW to sell them - that’s easy. They’ve been doing it for three decades. The features will already be IN the code that is ON the local PC. I’m not sure people realize that. The subscription simply sends an unlock to tell the engine on the PC that the user is allowed to implement that feature for that day or month.
Their decision is SOLELY related to their income projections. Will they make more money by trapping users into permanent subscriptions, or lose more money by turning off customers who’ve been faithfully paying for years or decades. The new and future customers that don’t have tens of thousands of dollars invested aren’t trapped - they can more easily choose to walk away, use other tools, whatever … without that prior investment being a factor.
My point here is simple. Logos doesn’t need help knowing HOW to offer both subscriptions AND the option for periodic perpetual license feature upgrade-purchases. They just need to figure out which will make them more money.
If their concern was to do the best for their customers, they would offer both and not force hundreds of thousands or millions of customers to make a difficult, unhappy choice, possibly feeling betrayed in the process. THAT would be the path of integrity. "
So, if any Faithlife/Logos staff are paying attention to what I am saying here, this is where I am: I really am beginning to consider how much longer I will be able to use Logos. I don't want to be forced to make the choice between owning vs. subscribing. Please don't force any of us to make that choice. Please, let us decide whether we want to purchase one-off, or subscribe. (If you are concerned about the cost of running AI, I get that. But there is another option: make the AI features a subscription that are an add-on service that can be rented.)
In the end, I think it comes down to this: If you don't let us continue to make that choice, and you decide to shift towards only having your software available as a rental/subscription type of software, I fear that my days as a Logos customer will be nearing an end. (Thank God I never off loaded my physical library.)
In His grace,
Rev. Eric Burrows-Stone
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Don't get me wrong.... I am against "monthly payments of any kind"... don't like anything that I have to pay monthly for. I try to pay cash and if I don't have cash then I save until I do.... having said that... I subscribed to Logos Pro... (my wife questioned my sanity lol) but I like it. I like the new Search, I like the Summarize feature.... I like Sermon Assistant. But I think there are many like me, that don't like monthly payments. But I do think this is a way of the future. In my mind, you can blame Microsoft for starting all this monthly subscription stuff!!
And I'm a thinking (maybe trying to convince myself or hoping) that the monthly subscription will be cheaper than "buying the updates" every two years... AND I do understand the monthly income will definitely help Logos in the process. Maybe a win for me and a win for Logos??
I am also thinking... it was probably Mark Barnes that came up with this idea [:O] .... (sounds about right to me)... and I am a fan of Mark Barnes. Since he became Product Manager of Tools (I think that's his title)... I have seen good things in Logos.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
Don't get me wrong.... I am against "monthly payments of any kind"... don't like anything that I have to pay monthly for. I try to pay cash and if I don't have cash then I save until I do.... having said that... I subscribed to Logos Pro... (my wife questioned my sanity lol) but I like it. I like the new Search, I like the Summarize feature.... I like Sermon Assistant. But I think there are many like me, that don't like monthly payments. But I do think this is a way of the future. In my mind, you can blame Microsoft for starting all this monthly subscription stuff!!
And I'm a thinking (maybe trying to convince myself or hoping) that the monthly subscription will be cheaper than "buying the updates" every two years... AND I do understand the monthly income will definitely help Logos in the process. Maybe a win for me and a win for Logos??
I am also thinking... it was probably Mark Barnes that came up with this idea
.... (sounds about right to me)... and I am a fan of Mark Barnes. Since he became Product Manager of Tools (I think that's his title)... I have seen good things in Logos. [Y]
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xnman said:
Don't get me wrong....
A lot of people keep bringing up Microsoft, and if not that, media rental. 'Wave of the future!'
Let's recognize severe differences:
- Do you have work tools that can only operate on Microsoft ... costing you 4-5k figures (for many)? Or you unhappily switch, or grumble until you can switch.
- Is your work product meant for eternity, or next week? Your family? Willing your work and sources to your kids?
- Do you really NEED the ballyhoo'd features ... how many do you ever use? And there's no alternative use for your funds ... like maybe family? Missions?
Now, I'm just questioning the rationalizing. I don't doubt:
- Folks' current investment is solid (currently, per Mark). Just no new stuff, absent rental.
- In-house new stuff, absent contract-out (AI, translation, etc), doesn't have a good track-record.
- Faitlife needs cash-flow. Which is fine. It's a business with investors.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:DAL said:
I own Logos 10 Full Features and base packages. Would it be better for me yo cancel FL Connect No Library and just go ahead and subscribe to Logos Pro? Other than the free 3 ebooks, 25% off a Lexham Press purchase and 2% cash back, what else would I lose or gain?
In this specific case, I think you're OK with canceling and getting Pro if that's what you'd like to do. You will lose all the perks you mentioned, plus any more perks that you didn't mention. Are Mobile Ed courses part of Connect No Library? I think they may be. If so, you'd lose those, too.
For others with similar questions, I'm only giving this answer because DAL says
- they already own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set, so they won't lose any features
- they have the "No Library" version of Connect, so they won't lose any books
- they understand they'll lose the perks, and they're OK with that
In all other circumstances, we recommend sticking with Connect until we announce a migration plan.
My Logos Now expires May 17. I have the full feature set already, i.e., could switch to Logos Pro. Still, I don't know what to do on May 17. I would love to have the AI features of Logos Pro but don't want to pay for 2 subscriptions, especially as Logos Pro contains only 5 books that I don't already own.
Here is my usage of the Logos Now features (list is taken from another post):
- ongoing updates and upgrades to the latest Logos feature sets
- Yes, I am glad for this.
- 3 eBooks monthly from faithlife classics
- No more benefit to me
- 2 mobile ed courses annually at 180 day temporary licence
- No more benefit to me
- 25% off Lexham resource per month
- I have used this occasionally
- Special deals on selected resources
- No more benefit to me
- 2% return the following year on what I purchased
- This has been the main benefit for me. However, as the credit is awarded in February, I don't think I will subscribe to Logos Now and Logos Pro until Feb 2025. I assume I will drop Logos Now before then, i.e., I will likely no longer benefit from it.
- Faithlife TV (which I do watch and have benefitted from!)
- I have used this occasionally, but as I haven't noticed any updates in the last few years, I don't use it anymore. But elsewhere here in the forum, FL stated that FL TV might be revived.
The last point in Mark's recommendation is what makes me hesitant. If I switch to Logos Pro, will I still get
- ongoing updates and upgrades to the latest Logos feature sets (I assume this is the case)
- 25% off Lexham resource per month
- 2% return the following year on what I purchased
- Faithlife TV
Is there any recommendation from FL for me?
Armin
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Armin said:
Is there any recommendation from FL for me?
At the top of this thread, Mark Barnes advises subscribers "If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books."
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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For those who like subscriptions this sounds great, early access to new features et al. However I would be very sorry to see the end of the two yearly option to buy the full feature sets as they stand at that time.
Bulking up my library is not what I am looking for anymore but would like to keep my Logos features regularly updated (even if it is every two years), can we be assured that you will not be looking to end this option, even if you are leaning heavily to subscription based feature sets.
For myself at least, a subscription only service would end any future payments.
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For those who like subscriptions this sounds great, early access to new features et al. However I would be very sorry to see the end of the two yearly option to by the full feature sets as they stand at that time.
Bulking up my library is not what I am looking for anymore but would like to keep my Logos features regularly updated (even if it is every two years), can we be assured that you will not be looking to end this option, even if you are leaning heavily to subscription based feature sets.
For myself at least, a subscription only service would end any future payments.
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mark preston said:
Bulking up my library is not what I am looking for anymore but would like to keep my Logos features regularly updated (even if it is every two years), can we be assured that you will not be looking to end this option
A two-year update is no longer favored but FL could provide an annual update.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:mark preston said:
Bulking up my library is not what I am looking for anymore but would like to keep my Logos features regularly updated (even if it is every two years), can we be assured that you will not be looking to end this option
A two-year update is no longer favored but FL could provide an annual update.
Hi, Dave ...
I don't think "2 years" was the point of Mark's comment ... rather, it was the apparently widely shared desire to purchase perpetual license feature upgrades on a regular basis.
I'm unsure of what FL-communications you are basing your comment about "favored" - apparently you've gotten information that a two year cycle for permanent purchase upgrades has been rejected, but that annual upgrades of that type are still in the running. If that's the case, please clarify where you got that information from. It surprised me.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
xnman said:
Don't get me wrong.... I am against "monthly payments of any kind"... don't like anything that I have to pay monthly for. I try to pay cash and if I don't have cash then I save until I do.... having said that... I subscribed to Logos Pro... (my wife questioned my sanity lol) but I like it. I like the new Search, I like the Summarize feature.... I like Sermon Assistant. But I think there are many like me, that don't like monthly payments. But I do think this is a way of the future. In my mind, you can blame Microsoft for starting all this monthly subscription stuff!!
And I'm a thinking (maybe trying to convince myself or hoping) that the monthly subscription will be cheaper than "buying the updates" every two years... AND I do understand the monthly income will definitely help Logos in the process. Maybe a win for me and a win for Logos??
I am also thinking... it was probably Mark Barnes that came up with this idea
.... (sounds about right to me)... and I am a fan of Mark Barnes. Since he became Product Manager of Tools (I think that's his title)... I have seen good things in Logos. I too am completely against subscriptions and will cease purchases and also will no longer "sell" Logos Bible Software as I have done through the years without credit. No more training on the features Logos can bring to personal study, etc. As a silent sales partner that never sought recognition - a couple dozen or more users were sold on Logos - no longer in the plan for me, as long as subscription is the only option offered.
In relation to Microsoft, they have seen the error and are offering purchase options again.
I see the view you are trying to convince yourself in relation to the subscription being cheaper than buying, only issue is without a drastic change of direction from Faithlife - all those monthly subscription payments leave you with nothing once you stop paying....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Jim Dean said:
I’ve heard Daniel Norwood (and some others?) suggest that some kind of “credit” system, or “lease to buy” system, so that people could stop renting / subscribing at a given point, and then buy the features as a perpetual ownership addition to the Logos 10 platform we have now -- they’ve suggested this might be a reasonable alternative or bridge.
However, from what I’ve understood from all that’s been communicated by Logos staff, in this thread and in emails, is that the decision they are still mulling over is whether to offer any further perpetual licenses to ANY non-AI features, at ALL, EVER. I don’t think they are at a loss as to know HOW to sell them - that’s easy. They’ve been doing it for three decades. The features will already be IN the code that is ON the local PC. I’m not sure people realize that. The subscription simply sends an unlock to tell the engine on the PC that the user is allowed to implement that feature for that day or month.
Their decision is SOLELY related to their income projections. Will they make more money by trapping users into permanent subscriptions, or lose more money by turning off customers who’ve been faithfully paying for years or decades. The new and future customers that don’t have tens of thousands of dollars invested aren’t trapped - they can more easily choose to walk away, use other tools, whatever … without that prior investment being a factor.
My point here is simple. Logos doesn’t need help knowing HOW to offer both subscriptions AND the option for periodic perpetual license feature upgrade-purchases. They just need to figure out which will make them more money.
If their concern was to do the best for their customers, they would offer both and not force hundreds of thousands or millions of customers to make a difficult, unhappy choice, possibly feeling betrayed in the process. THAT would be the path of integrity.
It really is that simple! It's in the code and just needs a license - any refusal to offer the option does indeed lack integrity - why do I believe that? I hear sustainability mentioned frequently - if sustainability was truly as important as it is presented - the purchase option being offered as well only adds to sustainability! How? The feedback in the forums is clearly showing that subscription only is not overwhelmingly appreciated by users andmany have stated they will no longer purchase anything if that is the only option. So that hinders sustainability and turns away many users and many long time users.... It is this exact reason, the feature existing in the code but not being offered for purchase - that gives some the view that Logos is indeed trying to force all users into a subscription, contrary to their statements otherwise....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Jim Dean said:Dave Hooton said:mark preston said:
Bulking up my library is not what I am looking for anymore but would like to keep my Logos features regularly updated (even if it is every two years), can we be assured that you will not be looking to end this option
A two-year update is no longer favored but FL could provide an annual update.
Hi, Dave ...
I don't think "2 years" was the point of Mark's comment ... rather, it was the apparently widely shared desire to purchase perpetual license feature upgrades on a regular basis.
I'm unsure of what FL-communications you are basing your comment about "favored" - apparently you've gotten information that a two year cycle for permanent purchase upgrades has been rejected, but that annual upgrades of that type are still in the running. If that's the case, please clarify where you got that information from. It surprised me.
This is not what Dave is saying, and I hope we don't get a whole new wave of unfounded speculation on this. Logos has officially said that they are still working on the way forward.
It is not insider knowledge that the two-year cycle is not favored. From the first official post in this thread ...
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:We’re living in a period of significant technological change, and only a subscription model enables us to continuously release new features and improvements as soon as they are built. Many of you don’t want to wait up to two years for improvements that could significantly benefit your Bible study. Subscription also allows us to include AI features which we can’t offer with permanent licenses due to the significant ongoing costs and rapidly changing technology.
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Logos subscriptions aren’t new. More than ten thousand people have been subscribing to Logos for nearly a decade. But we’re now embracing subscription for our software because doing so has five distinct advantages.
- New users can have much lower upfront costs and try Logos with much less commitment.
- It allows us to continuously release new features and improvements as soon as they are built, rather than holding them back for a major release every two years. That’s especially important at a time of rapid technological change.
- It allows us to include features like AI, which we can’t offer permanent licenses to because of the significant ongoing costs.
- It’s a sustainable way of ensuring we can keep delivering improvements for decades to come.
- Releasing early and often significantly shortens the feedback loop, enabling us to continually tweak our improvements to ensure they’re really solving the most important things for all our customers.
There are customers who don't want to wait two years for new features, and Logos wants to release new features as they are produced. From these statements, one can conclude, reasonably enough, that Logos no longer favors the two-year cycle. It is not insider knowledge.
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