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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 6 2014 3:25 AM

I want to find every occasion Jesus quoted the Old Testament. What is the best way to do that. I am using Logos 6. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 5:18 AM

Josh Hunt:

I want to find every occasion Jesus quoted the Old Testament. What is the best way to do that. I am using Logos 6. 

Use the HCSB bible. It's the only one that has an Old Testament quotation field  although unfortunately it doesn't have speaker labels. So you still have to use this L4 method: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/26181.aspx 

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 5:52 AM

Here is a little more detailed way, related to what Mark mentioned above, but that takes advantage of one of the new Logos 6 Features, that of being able to search for the Speaker. Smile

1. Run a Bible search in the ESV for {Speaker <Person Jesus>}. This will return 2047 verses. Save this search result as a Passage List. I've named the passage list "Jesus Speaks".

2. Run a Bible Search for * in the HCSB, selecting the search field "OT Quotation" and then limiting your search range to the Passage List you just saved! You'll get 90 verses back.

3. Now, there are actually at least 2 more Bibles that have the OT Quotation field, so it is always good to compare results! They are the NA27 and the NA28. The NA28 is included in some Logos 6 base packages. Interestingly, these give more results than the HCSB! You'll get 112 results. Just add the ESV or some other translation using the "Add versions" button.

4. Finally, we can compare these two results to see where they differ. To do so, save both search results as Passage Lists. Note that the search will be rerun when you do so, so it will take a bit.

5. Now, last step. From within either of the Passage Lists, select "Merge". Then, select the other Passage List, and finally choose "Symmetric Difference". This will display the results that are in one list, but not the other...

Interestingly, there are 28 results in this list! Which means that there are results in both lists that are not in the other! These you'll want to double check especially close, and this type of difference is a reminder of how it is always a good idea to check in two different sources if we need really reliable information. In this case, these mainly seem to be texts where it is debatable whether it is really a "quote" or not:

You can also run "Merge" again, and this time select "Union" to get the results that are present in both lists. Those results are going to be results that are pretty clearly an OT Quotation, as two different versions agree on them. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 6:16 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
Here is a little more detailed way, related to what Mark mentioned above, but that takes advantage of one of the new Logos 6 Features, that of being able to search for the Speaker. Smile

Nice job Fr. DevinYes

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 6:26 AM

Fr Devin Roza:

Here is a little more detailed way, ...

This is brilliant. Thank you for the walk-through.

Posts 1886
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 6:51 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
Here is a little more detailed way, related to what Mark mentioned above, but that takes advantage of one of the new Logos 6 Features, that of being able to search for the Speaker.

This is phenomenal. Thanks for taking the time to write this up and include screenshots.

We need a "Add to wiki" function in the forums so that someone with appropriate rights can immediately make a wiki page out of answers as good as this one. There have been a couple of others like this recently.

Alternatively, move the forums to the Stack Exchange software platform so we can give feedback on answers and thereby move them up in ranking. ;)

Donnie

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 7:23 AM

Donnie Hale:
We need a "Add to wiki" function in the forums

YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 7:26 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
Save this search result as a Passage List.

I knew there were ways to use passage lists for things other than simply listing verses, but I hadn't figured out some of the more brilliant ones, like this.

This goes back to my rather well-read post from last week...we need more documentation of specific examples of ways to use the features in the software, other than buried in the forums, where many, many Logos users never sneak.

(Here's the thread, if you didn't see it- https://community.logos.com/forums/t/93927.aspx )

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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Jo Decaesteker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 7:53 AM

Brilliant thread indeed. And indeed, this should go into the wiki. The only question is: how and where?

Maybe there could be a new section "searching concepts" or something?

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Michael March | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 9:42 AM

Thank you for this, These amazing ways to search the Scriptures will wind up being a blessing to those in my care. Thank you for taking all that time to enlighten me and so many.

Windows PC - Android Phone - Surface Pro 4

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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 6 2014 12:01 PM

Donnie Hale:
This is phenomenal.

Yes

Thank you for taking the time to post this, Fr Devin. 

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 7:40 AM

It turns out that it is now actually possible to directly search for when Jesus quotes the OT in just one search, using the Literary Type feature! Search for this:

{Speaker <Person Jesus>} WITHIN {Section <LiteraryType Quotation, Old Testament>}

Here is what the results look like:

I figured this out today watching this video here, which I highly recommend, on literary typing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxC8MY2RAZU&list=UUZFF0RGvkG-G5_SACnkN_5w. After watching the video I was playing around a bit with the feature, and noticed that "Quotation, Old Testament" was one of the LiteraryTypes. Nice!

Check out the Lexham Glossary of Literary Types here: logosres:lxhmglssryltyps;hw=Quotation,_Old_Testament. This is really the type of thing that opens up so many possibilities!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 7:43 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
It turns out that it is now actually possible to directly search for when Jesus quotes the OT in just one search, using the Literary Typing feature! Search for this:

Very nice - thanks for flagging this.

Posts 753
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 8:19 AM

This is cool, but. . . 

If feels like you have to be a programmer to really use Logos. I wish there was a way to get to this kind of search using user-friendly drop down menus and radio buttons. 

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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 8:26 AM

Why does the result vary by translation? The search above yields the following results, depending on translation

NIV 126 results

ESV 104 results

NKJV 169 results

NRSV 105 results

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 9:05 AM

Josh Hunt:

Why does the result vary by translation? The search above yields the following results, depending on translation

NIV 126 results

ESV 104 results

NKJV 169 results

NRSV 105 results

There's no substantive difference between them. But the search actually takes place on the underlying Greek text.

If an English version inserts a word for clarity, then it will break the section, and the search will then find two sections.

Or if a sentence is rearranged, '"It is written", he said to them, "My house will be..."' is two hits, whilst 'He said to them, "It is written my house..."' is one hit.

As with morphology searches, if you want accurate counts, search on the Greek text.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 9:29 AM

Mark Barnes:

Josh Hunt:

Why does the result vary by translation? The search above yields the following results, depending on translation

NIV 126 results

ESV 104 results

NKJV 169 results

NRSV 105 results

There's no substantive difference between them. But the search actually takes place on the underlying Greek text.

If an English version inserts a word for clarity, then it will break the section, and the search will then find two sections.

As well, note that in all English Reverse Interlinears (I tested with 6 anyway), the number of verse results is identical - 87. This is the most important search result, not the number of hits, which will vary based on how the phrase is worded compared to the underlying Greek. 

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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 9:42 AM

None of my Greek versions had any results. (I tried 4 na27 and one na28)

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 9:56 AM

Josh Hunt:

None of my Greek versions had any results. (I tried 4 na27 and one na28)

Bibles need to be rebuilt for this to work. SBL Greek NT, Byzantine, Lexham Discourse and Lexham Interlinear SBL are the only ones so far.

I think the SBL is the base text for the tagging, so that's the one to use.

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