Please share with us what the hang up is on PPB to Mobile

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This post has 101 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 2296
David Ames | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 7 2016 6:09 AM

Many requests to get PBBs on mobile devices such as:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/61021/432803.aspx#432803  
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/72400/504108.aspx#504108  
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/49739/367841.aspx#367841  
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/72434/504321.aspx#504321      

Others

And that was the list from July of 2013

What is the hang up?

Details please:  For example:  Have you got it working on some but not others?  Are you having problems with copyrights?

Posts 9858
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 6:21 AM

Usually Logos won't answer, unless the Logosians' anger has reached 'white' hot and they're collecting wood for a big fire.  So, I'll start collecting twigs.

Notice app features have gone to sleep.  I think Kevin is now helping out on the old desktop platform problems (L6). 

Notice also a considerable amount of noise over in web-dev for the web app. Subscription.

There is your answer.  I'd be stupid to put PBs on the free app, when I need a honeypot on the paid version.


Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 6:52 AM

David Ames:
And that was the list from July of 2013

It goes back farther than that. Our first glimpse was 2009, when Bob highlighted current thoughts including a "store" or sorts:

 

PBB for Logos 4 isn't coded yet... so things are still flexible.

The basic idea is:

A) No more second-class citizens. PBB will use the same internal file format as books we distribute, so highlighting and other features "just work."

B) Compiling will probably be done on the server. (Because we're making PBB books first-class citizens, they need to go through the primary metadata and license databases, so we can sync them to your multiple devices, let your read your PBB's on your iPhone, etc.)

C) Your content defaults to private, just like your notes and other information.

D) You'll have the option to share your books with "groups" of other people. (And your notes, highlights, etc.) You'll have per-file control of exactly what you share and who you share it with.

E) We're considering a PBB store, like the App Stores for mobile phones, where you could choose to sell PBB's for which you owned the copyright, with Logos handling the credit card transactions, downloading, etc.

This is just "the state of the thinking"....

-- Bob

It looks like PBs finally came out in Logos 4 in 2011, by August people were looking for the mobile sync believing it was being worked on and was coming:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/37366.aspx 

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/36814.aspx 

Now in case "some" (cough, cough) might say this is why Faithlife cannot ever talk about anything in the future, because what has been said in the past is held against them, that misses the point. What is past is past, I would be supremely delighted just to know it's legitimately being worked on for a version 6 or version 7 release. It amazes me that Faithlife thinks saying nothing about a feature many users look forward to, after an expectation has been set, is the best course. In fact, many others would probably start to use and appreciate PBs if this, and library management, could finally be added to substantially improve the implementation of Personal Books 5 years later.

Posts 2816
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 7:01 AM

I think Logos is a business - a great business that does great things - but a business first.  Like all businesses, Logos has experienced financial pressures in this economy.

Personal books are not a revenue producer.  Therefore, personal books are not nearly as high a priority to the company as to the customers.  When it comes to upgrading personal books, It is a more of a "we will get around to it" feature.

That is not unreasonable of Logos.  But is an inconvenient reality for many of us.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 27014
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 7:05 AM

Don Awalt:
I would be supremely delighted just to know it's legitimately being worked on for a version 6 or version 7 release

It could be, but I doubt it. I don't have time to search right now, but a number of employees have posted on in, including Bob. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 7895
LogosEmployee

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

Posts 1667
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 10:50 AM

I gave up and abandoned the dream since Kevin indicated it is less an overwhelming technical issue and more of a concern over copyrights and piracy. He didn't, however, explain how the current desktop Upload button does not have those issues.

Win 10 Android/Fire OS 5

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 12:07 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

Thanks Bradley, at least we know.

Michael Childs:
Personal books are not a revenue producer.

As an FYI Michael, that can be said for ANY software feature in Logos outside of Logos Now features.

Posts 2761
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 12:16 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

I'm having a Linkin Park moment right now.  I try so hard to like (and trust) this company, but in the end, it doesn't really matter.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 196
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 12:29 PM

Don Awalt:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

Thanks Bradley, at least we know.

Michael Childs:
Personal books are not a revenue producer.

As an FYI Michael, that can be said for ANY software feature in Logos outside of Logos Now features.

I agree that the majority of the marketing and engineering budget seems to be focused on Logos Now. I cannot believe that they would prioritize some of the niche features in the Logos Now releases over something we all want...PBB sync!

Agape,

Steve

Posts 4823
doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 1:02 PM

Stephen Terlizzi:
I agree that the majority of the marketing and engineering budget seems to be focused on Logos Now. I cannot believe that they would prioritize some of the niche features in the Logos Now releases over something we all want...PBB sync!

It's not about what the customer wants Steve, its about what Logos wants.  They see these niche features as important to their Logos 7 plans, Logos 7 is coming and then there is the fact they are taking cash regularly off a sub set of the whole customer base.

The reality is they want to expand the sub set of customers that they are regularly taking cash off hence a whole range of subscription opportunities they are offering their customers to get them to regularly hand over cash to them including beside Logos/Verbum Now or Logos/Verbum Cloud, Bible Study Magazine, Proclaim, FaithlifeTV, SoundFaith, Mobile Ed. Subscriptions & Book Rentals. And you are exactly right this is where they are focusing their budget on these things. They are throwing all their  eggs into these baskets alone in the hope that we will like sheep follow where all the hype is an sign over our money to them. They seem to have forgotten what we value most are the things that engaged us with this company in the first place.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

As a customer I find this answer disappointing on so many levels.

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 1:09 PM

Faithlife is investing in a tremendous number of new ventures, both extensions of Bible study into new markets via new channels (web sites, apps, etc.) as well as complementary products. We have heard loud and clear Bob wants new customers. The money for this had to come from somewhere - it came, and comes from the cash cow, Logos/Verbum. Add the need to create new functionality in every point release of Logos/Verbum in order to make the subscription model attractive to new subscribers - and you have lot of competition for the dollar that is higher priority than features that need a refresh, that we have used for a while and continue to use in our daily study. 

While investing in new ventures, channels, and markets is necessary for survival, what disappoints me is I think it's taken too big of a hit out of software that needs its own reinvestment - which is starting to hurt the very software that drives the resource purchases.  Even fundamental functionality like "search" needs more attention, not less. While this area has received attention with a lot of data tagging that creates new abilities to find things, it amazes me how many times a simple Google search finds an answer instantly that I have no idea how to find in Logos/Verbum (in part because of the dizzying array of search syntax, types of searches, and overlapping guides we face when we have a problem to solve). This is not meant to be critical of data tagging, more to say in the grand scheme of things it is version 1 and needs investment, user interface needs refinement, simplification. (And don't even get me started on the fact that you don't even get highlighted search results in Notes! A worthless feature and waste of time when you have longer Notes!)

Bob has told us Faithlife is not Google, granted - but I believe this need would have been better served without some of these "distractions" - and there are more ways to solve a problem now than there were when Logos 4 eliminated Fuzzy Search, a Logos 3 feature, in 2011 - but that's just one example. I am really shocked that in 12 "Now" releases we haven't seen a more concerted effort to refresh existing features that are going on 5 years old in some cases. There has been some work, but it's a minority of the Now software investment - and the Logos/Verbum software is suffering IMHO.

It could get worse, it could snowball - if users who suffer from their favorite features being ignored don't really want to pay for the new "Now" features, will there be a lot fewer upgrades to version 7 in lieu of cross-grades, and a lot less cross-grades in lieu of free engine upgrades? Will people see less value in adding resources to their libraries, because the often-premium pricing of those resources is not realized in the value perceived from software that has holes in how existing users want to work with the software? What good are Personal Books if we can't use them on our mobile devices, phones, tablets, which is quickly becoming the large majority of what people use today? This seems like turning a blind eye to the true priorities Faithlife should be working on IMHO.

I hope this post is taken constructively - I don't think Faithlife does enough to ask customers what they think, to be transparent, to offer plans, to share, in response to comments, complaints, and questions - so it feels like all we can do is lob grenades over the wall and hope it gets someone's attention before it's too late. No company has proven impervious to the unsatisfied needs of its customers forever, no matter what the costs to switch. Ignoring long-standing product enhancement needs in Logos/Verbum is a dangerous path to walk down IMHO.

Posts 196
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 1:13 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

It's not about what the customer wants Steve, its about what Logos wants. 

This is always a recipe for disaster.

Agape,

Steve

Posts 1398
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 1:22 PM

Don Awalt:

.....What good are Personal Books if we can't use them on our mobile devices, phones, tablets, which is quickly becoming the large majority of what people use today? This seems like turning a blind eye to the true priorities Faithlife should be working on IMHO.

I hope this post is taken constructively - I don't think Faithlife does enough to ask customers what they think, to be transparent, to offer plans, to share, in response to comments, complaints, and questions - so it feels like all we can do is lob grenades over the wall and hope it gets someone's attention before it's too late. No company has proven impervious to the unsatisfied needs of its customers forever, no matter what the costs to switch. Ignoring long-standing product enhancement needs in Logos/Verbum is a dangerous path to walk down IMHO.

Yes

another big disappointment Angry

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 2296
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 1:43 PM

Wild Eagle:

another big disappointment Angry

Have been making PBBs since 2011 and currently have 215.  Have saved some of the source DOCX files as PDF and moved those to Mobile to read there.  

Posts 5226
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 1:58 PM

I have made my more used PBB resources into Accordance user modules for just this reason of wanting them on my iPad. I am not sure if we will ever see much movement on this as Faithlife seems to give off the feeling our mobile apps are good as they are. And I will say they are good but still feel more offline functionality and PBB are things that are needed to move the mobile apps from a good app to a great app. Faithlife likes to consider itself the Cadillac of Bible software but unfortunately their mobile app feels far from the top of the line in my books. More and more people utilize their phones/tablets as a primary reading device and if FL cannot keep up it may well find itself left behind as a preferred platform.

-dan

Posts 1398
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 2:33 PM

David Ames:

Have been making PBBs since 2011 and currently have 215.  Have saved some of the source DOCX files as PDF and moved those to Mobile to read there.  

i can buy almost everything in pdf, epub, mobi and etc... The whole point is to have 1 library under 1 software

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 1318
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 2:59 PM

It seems that development on the mobile platform has completely stopped recently other than emergency bug fixes. Disappointing and short-sighted.

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 3:24 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

It's not about what the customer wants Steve, its about what Logos wants. 

I think this is more true than not.  With a few minor execeptions, it does seem that Logos pushes whatever it desires.  A comprehensive look at the user voice site would tell you that while some ideas are being considered or implemented, many, many have languished for years.  PBB to mobile is one that has 525 votes, perhaps more if there weren't duplicate requests.

Don Awalt:

I hope this post is taken constructively - I don't think Faithlife does enough to ask customers what they think, to be transparent, to offer plans, to share, in response to comments, complaints, and questions - so it feels like all we can do is lob grenades over the wall and hope it gets someone's attention before it's too late. No company has proven impervious to the unsatisfied needs of its customers forever, no matter what the costs to switch. Ignoring long-standing product enhancement needs in Logos/Verbum is a dangerous path to walk down IMHO.

Agreed.

Posts 945
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 7 2016 4:09 PM

David Ames:
Have saved some of the source DOCX files as PDF and moved those to Mobile to read there.  

I am lagging behind David with PBBs, not quite up to 200 yet!

I see no point it getting upset about not being able to upload them onto a mobile. Like David, the ones I want to read on my tablet  can easily be converted to pdf or another format. Not as convenient as being able to upload directly but only a minor irritation. OK there is our church bible study quarterly which would benefit by uploading directly but it is not the end of the world.

What would really upset us all is if Logos tried to satisfy every thing we wanted/demanded and went bust. Bob has no intention of that happening and I for one, am behind him on that.

We have a definitive answer on development of PBB uploads into mobiles and there is no point in continuing to winge about it.

Let's thank God for Logos and every other blessing that we have. If we must worry about something let it be about new Presidents, votes for in or out of the EU, or whatever currently steals the limelight in our home country. Things that will make a real difference to our lives and the state of our respective countries. I am off to bed!

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