Faithlife Connect punishes Logos' best customers!
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Erik said:
If that is the criteria, it still doesn't make sense to me. I don't see why prepaying for future years makes that account holder superior. Everyone migrated had auto-pay set up, so in theory Logos was generally not going to receive less revenue from "current one year subscription" LN customers vs "multiple year subscriptions". The only way this would make sense is if these "multiple year subscription" users were being somehow denied the full length of their subscription, which would then run contrary to Bob's statement that nothing has been taken away from anyone. I'm afraid I don't buy what CS told you.Gary Mendenhall said:
I had the same question regarding why some were migrated to FLC Starter and others were migrated to FLC Essentials and speaking with a representative from Faithlife yesterday I was told that if you were in a current one year subscription to Logos Now you were migrated to FLC Starter and if you had multiple years of subscription to Logos Now in the queue that you were migrated to FLC Essentials.Erik said:Jesse Blevins said:And just for the record I think that every Logos Now subscriber should have been moved to Connect Essentials.
This!
The fact that FL migrated LN customers to different Connect plans greatly bothers me. The lack of transparency regarding the criteria used to determine "who got what" just doesn't make any sense to me and seems rather flawed from a customer relationship perspective.
Everyone should indeed have been migrated to Essentials at the very least. As it stands now however, I am having a hard time fighting off feeling a bit insulted and slightly put off by the implication that my, as my wife points out, "enough to buy a 2018 Kia Optima Hybrid" investment makes me an inferior customer only deserving of a lateral to Starter.
I can deal with the price increase, the fact that I might in theory be paying for resources twice, or if FL just decided that nobody would be migrated, but a lack of fair and equal treatment makes my blood boil every time.
Another thing that I discovered in this conversation was that if you want to upgrade from FLC Starter to FLC Essentials you would be given the option to pay the total amount for one year for $199.99 and not have to make monthly payments. If you go to the Faithlife Connect web site and check out the pricing this one time annual payment feature is not listed but rather has to be initiated with contact with Faithlife. What is available at the site shows that the cost for a one year subscription for FLC Essentials is $19.99 paid monthly for 12 months so there is roughly a $40.00 savings if you are willing to pay out the $199.99 up front. The other option of course for the Essentials package is to pay on a monthly basis at a rate of $24.99 per month. I thought it was kind of interesting that the web site makes no mention of the ability to pay for the entire year at once and that I had to seek out this information via phone call to Faithlife.
Just for the sake of clarity I'm not sure why it is that you believe everyone migrated had auto-pay set up. I'm guessing you meant auto-renew. I was (and still am) in a one year subscription with Logos Now and I did not have auto-renew engaged in my subscription and I was migrated to Faithlife Connect Starter. Your reply caused me to question my understanding of what I was told yesterday by CS so I called again this morning to verify that I did not misunderstand and CS again gave me the same information as I received yesterday. You are correct in that those with multi-year subscriptions in the queue will have all the benefits of Logos Now until their subscriptions run out. Not sure how all of this figures into Bob's logic in the matter, but this is the information I was given.
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abondservant said:
I now wonder if the 5 figures of resources I have license to are worth it. It feels like a punishment for those of us who have bought in heavily (20k +/-)
For me the answer is no. As I was trying to figure out if the extra $11 per month was worth it, I kept on seeing these two words "Already owned."
It was bad enough that books you purchased in pre-pub were sold a year later in base packages at a higher discount. It hurt each month to see books you paid hard cash for being given away free in the "Free Book of the Month" program. But Faithlife Connect is for me the final straw. I just canceled all but four of my pre-pub orders and I may cancel those. I am thinking about calling customer service and seeing what recent purchases I can cancel.
I feel like such a fool for purchasing the products I have.
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Yes, I meant auto-renew, which is just a semantic issue...auto pay or auto renew...choose your poison.Gary Mendenhall said:Just for the sake of clarity I'm not sure why it is that you believe everyone migrated had auto-pay set up. I'm guessing you meant auto-renew. I was (and still am) in a one year subscription with Logos Now and I did not have auto-renew engaged in my subscription and I was migrated to Faithlife Connect Starter. Your reply caused me to question my understanding of what I was told yesterday by CS so I called again this morning to verify that I did not misunderstand and CS again gave me the same information as I received yesterday. You are correct in that those with multi-year subscriptions in the queue will have all the benefits of Logos Now until their subscriptions run out. Not sure how all of this figures into Bob's logic in the matter, but this is the information I was given.
Logos has said that they did not automatically migrate those who did not have auto-renew engaged (see the first post in this thread): https://community.logos.com/forums/p/160589/957864.aspx
You must be an exception or FL has their explanations crossed. The fact that CS repeated the story doesn't make it either true or the whole truth.
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. Not trying to stoke the fire, just relating the facts on my end.
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I'm kind of disappointed by the whining I see here. Faithlife is a business and they need to do what they need to do to stay afloat. It seems like they usually do it with an eye to ministry, but they still have to make a go of it.
I think many pastors (I'm not one) and such want to feel entitled to stuff. When it doesn't work out, whining is the next step.
I'm neither scholar nor preacher; I'm just this guy who likes to study the Bible. I couldn't be more pleased with my Logos library and I'm quite tolerant of experiments Faithlife tries. In fact, I considered my Logos Now subscription kind of a reverse ministry, where I could help them. I didn't get much out of it, but that's ok. I also don't care about the stuff they are offering now. I'll continue to buy the books and courses I want and be happy to do it.
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Gary Mendenhall said:
I'm not feeling very "exceptional" right now but as you and many others here have expressed I'm feeling a little bit second class regarding this matter after being with Logos since version 3, 18,749 resources in my library and $66K spent over the last 9 years. Logged into my account to double check and indeed, my Logos Now was not set to renew. Not trying to stoke the fire, just relating the facts on my end.
You may have been set to auto-renew and not realized it. FL changed the Logos Now subscription to turn off auto-renew after they migrated folks to Connect. Mine did not have auto-renew turned on for LN after the migration, but I know it was on previously since I just auto-renewed on Jan 30th. I appreciate you relaying what you've been told.
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Randall McRoberts said:
I'm kind of disappointed by the whining I see here. Faithlife is a business and they need to do what they need to do to stay afloat. It seems like they usually do it with an eye to ministry, but they still have to make a go of it.
I think many pastors (I'm not one) and such want to feel entitled to stuff. When it doesn't work out, whining is the next step.
I'm neither scholar nor preacher; I'm just this guy who likes to study the Bible. I couldn't be more pleased with my Logos library and I'm quite tolerant of experiments Faithlife tries. In fact, I considered my Logos Now subscription kind of a reverse ministry, where I could help them. I didn't get much out of it, but that's ok. I also don't care about the stuff they are offering now. I'll continue to buy the books and courses I want and be happy to do it.
I do not see it as whining, although I appreciate U calling it as U see it. I see these as legit beefs. I also see these concerns as people worried about their investment in the product as FL wobbles, which may account for some of the words U dislike.
Aren't U worried about all this dabbling about?? I am, + like U I am a layperson who wants to stretch his mind some. I want my stuff in FL available in FL in 20 years.
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Erik said:Gary Mendenhall said:
I'm not feeling very "exceptional" right now but as you and many others here have expressed I'm feeling a little bit second class regarding this matter after being with Logos since version 3, 18,749 resources in my library and $66K spent over the last 9 years. Logged into my account to double check and indeed, my Logos Now was not set to renew. Not trying to stoke the fire, just relating the facts on my end.
You may have been set to auto-renew and not realized it. FL changed the Logos Now subscription to turn off auto-renew after they migrated folks to Connect. Mine did not have auto-renew turned on for LN after the migration, but I know it was on previously since I just auto-renewed on Jan 30th. I appreciate you relaying what you've been told.
You may be right; until now I've never spent much time looking at the account information.
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Randall McRoberts said:
I'm kind of disappointed by the whining I see here. Faithlife is a business and they need to do what they need to do to stay afloat. It seems like they usually do it with an eye to ministry, but they still have to make a go of it.
I think many pastors (I'm not one) and such want to feel entitled to stuff. When it doesn't work out, whining is the next step.
I'm neither scholar nor preacher; I'm just this guy who likes to study the Bible. I couldn't be more pleased with my Logos library and I'm quite tolerant of experiments Faithlife tries. In fact, I considered my Logos Now subscription kind of a reverse ministry, where I could help them. I didn't get much out of it, but that's ok. I also don't care about the stuff they are offering now. I'll continue to buy the books and courses I want and be happy to do it.
There are some legitimate complaints over the way this was handled (and some illegitimate ones I'll admit) and FL isn't beyond criticism simply because they are also a type of ministry. There have been some express promises made in the past that arguably are being broken here, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss complaints as simple "whining". That you personally don't see it the same way doesn't make the complaints of others less valid. Sure some folks are getting a bit "heated", but when you are talking mortgage-sized investments people are entitled to lodge complaints.
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Wow! I wasn't aware of all the tiers of importance. But then again, I'm one of the culprits who built a streamlined, working library right off the bat and seldom buy more.... Much to the dismay of the powers that be. I didn't even get an email to include me in the discussion. I fail to see what all the hoopla is about. They offer a product, I'm not interested. I use my sizable funds to buy a happy meal instead. Problem solved.
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Keith Larson said:
I feel like such a fool for purchasing the products I have.
Keith, You are about the 5th poster today to make a reference to the books we all bought not being valuable in the long run. That would only happen if Faithlife stopped supporting the software. That would only happen if Faithlife went under and nobody bought the rights to the software. That would be unlikely to happen because the creditors could acquire the software and somebody would figure out how to make a bundle supporting us old fossils (and some young fossils) who blew our wads on books.
Are you actually thinking our books are losing their value? I bought mine at an advanced age and I bought (and am still buying) a bigger than a breadbox bunch of books... part of my plan was to will them to a student in need of a library when the time comes (or let my wife sell them if I didn't properly provide for her). Are you guys really serious?
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Rob Lambert said:
Keith, You are about the 5th poster today to make a reference to the books we all bought not being valuable in the long run. That would only happen if Faithlife stopped supporting the software. That would only happen if Faithlife went under and nobody bought the rights to the software. That would be unlikely to happen because the creditors could acquire the software and somebody would figure out how to make a bundle supporting us old fossils (and some young fossils) who blew our wads on books.
Rob, its good Ur business expertise can b brought to the table re this situation. I know in theory that what U say could happen, but the thought of how it works is more tenuous within me than it is with you, due to having different life experiences. So, I am more agitated.
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Thanks for your reply. No, I subscribe to nothing. That was the point I attempted to make. I'm content here under my rock. [:D]
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I, for the $99 I paid for Now this year, got the features early, got the free books, got the discounts and am now getting a $200 voucher to buy the feature set I chose not to before - so I have lost nothing by not buying outright in the first place.I will use it on the L8 feature set, since my Now is good through January. Plus, I get 6 months to peruse the Hebrews Mobile Ed course. Costs are going up, but so are a lot of my other bills. If all I got was Now through the end of my subscription and then a choice to pay the higher fee or lose the service, that would still be fair. This is generous.
Since my total orders could be a brand new Camaro instead (that moves me more than a Kia Optima Hybrid, but Erik can use his own metric
), I think I am a significant transactional customer, but don't feel punished. I got everything I was promised, and more. As usual, communication was bad and I am concerned that Faithlife continues to push the mediocre TV content(first church subscriptions, now this - let's cut our losses and read Good to Great), but the outrage is a little silly. Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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What looks legitimate to some (apparently) looks like whining to others.
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Justin Gatlin said:
I, for the $99 I paid for Now this year, got the features early, got the free books, got the discounts and am now getting a $200 voucher to buy the feature set I chose not to before - so I have lost nothing by not buying outright in the first place.I will use it on the L8 feature set, since my Now is good through January. Plus, I get 6 months to peruse the Hebrews Mobile Ed course. Costs are going up, but so are a lot of my other bills. If all I got was Now through the end of my subscription and then a choice to pay the higher fee or lose the service, that would still be fair. This is generous.
Since my total orders could be a brand new Camaro instead (that moves me more than a Kia Optima Hybrid, but Erik can use his own metric
), I think I am a significant transactional customer, but don't feel punished. I got everything I was promised, and more. As usual, communication was bad and I am concerned that Faithlife continues to push the mediocre TV content(first church subscriptions, now this - let's cut our losses and read Good to Great), but the outrage is a little silly. Amen. The outrage is silly.
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Bob Pritchett said:
(I just called Keith to discuss his particular situation, but wanted to reply here so others can see.)
We've tried to take particular care of our best customers; Logos Now subscribers should have received (by end of today -- 500 of the emails got backed up) special offers that address the changes, ranging from credit with which to buy a feature set and 'lock-in' the feature sets they had via Logos Now subscription, to free access to Faithlife Connect for some customers who are significant transactional purchasers.
I will post a new thread soon with more explanation and reasoning.
Now I realize why I'm out of the loop. I never got an email. I'm totally clueless as to what is happening.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia in Florida said:
Now I realize why I'm out of the loop. I never got an email. I'm totally clueless as to what is happening.
Cynthia, contact Customer Service. They had a lot of emails kicked back. (You had to be a Logos Now subscriber to get one, BTW.)
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Randall McRoberts said:
What looks legitimate to some (apparently) looks like whining to others.
I suppose that happens if one doesn't take the time to understand differing points of view. I may not share the grievances that others here have about Connect/LN as a product, but I can understand why they feel the way they do.
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Randall McRoberts said:
Amen. The outrage is silly.
Couldn't disagree with you more, in fact it is completely warranted and predictable...If they would have come on here and said here is the deal and we are raising the price of LN to compensate, then fine. Yes most likely there would have been grievances but I believe we would have understood. Instead the increase is almost absurd especially considering the add on bloat we have to buy in order to get what we really want.
So no it's not silly, in fact really the opposite.
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Dustin Pearson said:
Instead the increase is almost absurd especially considering the add on bloat we have to buy in order to get what we really want.
It's not just the bloatware.. it's the OVER INFLATED price that logos considering that $240 (more than double increase) is equal to NETFLIX or Amazon Prime who have never doubled the price like that. Not only that, they actually have high quality contents.. "Star Wars, Marvels, DCs, etc, the list is endless".... and each of those movies COST millions in productions ... (try comparing that with mobile ed, that supposedly the biggest "freebies" they give). No... they are nowhere close. Not even.
I appreciate those scholars but not Logos internal pricing.
Logos over inflated the price and trying to play the big boy game when logos don't have even the slightest equal resources like Netflix or Amazon... and these 2 companies never even double their price. If they even ever dare to double the price.. Almost everyone would switch boat instantaneously.
People forget that those mobile eds are just TEMPORARY ACCESS.. exactly the same with Netflix & Amazon who has different new movies EVERY MONTH. Netflix and Amazon have temporary access to certain movies and tv series that will eventually disappear. BUT, they don't charge extra for every new releases. They don't give those access and charge customers double. .. They even have their own IN HOUSE PRODUCTIONS that comes for free with all their subscription. In fact, Amazon and HULU are always nominated for Emmys and stuffs, do they charge their high-quality-in-house-production-contents extra?? NO!
What am I saying?
Separate the price
- If people want to subscribe to mobile ed .. they will. BUT don't force us to be lumped together if we don't want to.
- What was wrong with the OLD Logos Now? If you CAN'T keep us with the NEW FEATURES every 6 weeks.. THAT's fine.. admit it. We don't mind. Just don't charge us extra just because you can't keep up with 6 week cycle and blame us and punish us for it.
- Those cloud eBooks?! ... WE.DONT.NEED.THEM. Even in the "Essential" package... majority probably already have those book? Why make us pay again for those? Separate the price .. if people need them, people will pay for them. If we don't need them, then we're pretty sure, we don't want to pay for them. Simple.
Please, consider this solution:
LOWER the price of Logos Essential. (separate the price between people who wants features vs. fluffs)
If you said that the subscribers of Logos Now are just 4% of population* ... Then WHY oh why are you going to pressure people who are most LOYAL to your bank account?? Logos should be appreciating the 4% more, because Logos Now users are the most active ones.
Thank you
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Check out Bob's announcement about the new migration plan for Logos Now members.
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