Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary for Verbum??
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Kevin Clemens said:
Is the best way to report issues like this the Report Typo function in Verbum or is it worth posting them to the forums as well?
Typo is fine. We're going to be working on a few changes in the next couple of weeks. We'll look at those as well.
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When did this product go from North America only to USA only.... i had this on pre pub since it was announced.... but now I see it no longer in my prepUBs and listed as US only. just curious.
-dan
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Dan Francis said:
When did this product go from North America only to USA only....
Very recently. I don't know more than that.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Dan Francis said:
When did this product go from North America only to USA only.... i had this on pre pub since it was announced.... but now I see it no longer in my prepUBs and listed as US only. just curious.
-dan
Dan, I apologize for the inconvenience. The restriction is imposed by our contract with the rights holder.
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Dan Francis said:
When did this product go from North America only to USA only.... i had this on pre pub since it was announced.... but now I see it no longer in my prepUBs and listed as US only. just curious.
-dan
Dan, I apologize for the inconvenience. The restriction is imposed by our contract with the rights holder.
And the name / identity of the "rights holder" is?
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David Ames said:
And the name / identity of the "rights holder" is?
From the title page, it appears to be Catholic Book Publishing Corp. out of New York.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:David Ames said:
And the name / identity of the "rights holder" is?
From the title page, it appears to be Catholic Book Publishing Corp. out of New York.
Curiously, there’s a long list of countries it’s approved for (Physical book). But I have heard that there are a lot of subgroups holding rights too (The Divine Office app ran into trouble there). So it could be one of them too. It sounds bewildering.
Quite possibly we’ll need to do it all over again in 2024: https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/youre-gonna-need-a-new-breviary-heres
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David Wanat said:
Quite possibly we’ll need to do it all over again in 2024: https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/youre-gonna-need-a-new-breviary-heres
Next time will be much simpler: the NABRE (unlike the NAB) will still be available to be licensed, and the copyrights for every single liturgical text in the LotH outside the public domain will belong to ICEL or the USCCB. Unless they include copyrighted Latin texts (e.g., hymns), in which case it would be LEV. Still much simpler.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I've already commented at how it would be so much better if this was a "one click" book to read. I bought this because it is confusing to find the right place for the ribbons, and I certainly understand why there must be ribbons, without them the LOTH would be probably ten times as large as much of what is said daily is said many times throughout the year.
BUT even without that convenience, which is what I thought Verbum's LOTH was going to be, we need a yearly guide to tell us what readings are needed for each day.
The current system of Verbum bookmarks is less convenient (at least so far) than a physical ribbon and a printed book. But I'm open minded, I'll give this a good try.Example:
Ribbon Placement: 2021 Apr 03, for Holy Saturday
This was the LAST DATE that Divine Office.org published the Ribbon Placements.Invitatory
Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Antiphon: 467
Psalm: 1044
Office of ReadingsLiturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1045
All from Proper of Seasons: 492
Morning PrayerLiturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1049
All from Proper of Seasons: 499Midmorning Prayer
Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1054
Complementary Psalmody: 1651 (Midmorning)
Proper of Seasons: 507 (antiphon, reading, concluding prayer)Midday Prayer
Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1054
All from Proper of Seasons: 504Midafternoon Prayer
Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1054
Complementary Psalmody: 1655 (Midafternoon)
Proper of Seasons: 508 (antiphon, reading, concluding prayer)Evening Prayer
Liturgy of the Hours Vol. II:
Ordinary: 1064
All from Proper of Seasons: 509Night Prayer
Liturgy of the Hours Vol II:
Page 1628
Antiphon following Reading: Page 514Electronically it should be possible to open Verbum click on LOTH and have the names of the Hours before you and if "Morning Prayer" is clicked, have one page assembled from the various paper pages in the printed volumes before you ready and easy to read. Such a joy that would be, especially as I get older and even the LARGE PRINT volumes of LOTH are difficult to read, with Verbum, I can make the letters very, very large.
So we need a Supplement to tell us where the readings are for each day!
One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.
Thanks,
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I agree SO MUCH with this post. EXACTLY what the folks at FL need to read and understand. And something I'm betting 99% of the people at FL who worked on this particular acquisition did NOT understand.
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.
You mean https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/1522? It's published by Catholic Book Publishing; Faithlife would have to license it from them. And it is not the LotH. And there is a new one every year.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Yes, it published by the same people that publish the Liturgy of the Hours, https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/95 I guess the important thing is the Author, the author of the Guide is Catholic Book Publishing, and the author of the LOTH is ICEL (INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON ENGLISH IN THE LITURGY).
Who's to say Verbum couldn't publish their own Guide, even a perpetual guide.
In my opinion, the Guide should be perpetual and be like the "Catholic Daily Readings" that comes with the Lectionary (catdayreadus LLS:CATDAYREADUS) and since that particular publication only comes with the Lectionary it could have the readings that are marked "TEXT" given. It's a separate resource than the other "Catholic Daily Readings" (cathlect LLS:CATHLECT)0 -
SineNomine said:David J. Ring, Jr. said:
One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.
You mean https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/1522? It's published by Catholic Book Publishing; Faithlife would have to license it from them. And it is not the LotH. And there is a new one every year.
Funny you mention this but I have a copy on my desk right now. We're in the very beginning stages of trying to put this out.
Also: I've got a number of updates to LOTH that I'm getting ready to put out. The biggest changes will involve
- Including the text for the Canticle of Zechariah and the Canticle of Mary wherever it appears
- Using the text display function you find in lectionaries to present Bible text. Yes we know that the readings found in the print LOTH are for a specific version and are often abridged but we felt this was the closest compromise that we could do at the moment. It felt more simple than clicking on hyperlinks (which will still remain).
- Fixing any reported typos
Once the update is ready I'll reply again with the full list of changes.
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Catholic Publishing gets it's information from somewhere, maybe ICEL, for the daily readings for the LOTH and Christian Prayer it publishes.
I don't see how publishing an electronic resource would cut in on their sales, but I don't know what type of license they have from their source, probably ICEL, if that is the case, I suggest that Verbum approach the source of this information, explain their need and ask for permission or license to use the information for the benefit of Verbum users praying the LOTH.
I know the web of licensing is complicated for LOTH, but it seems most of this is done, and what is needed is a license or permission to use ICEL's readings for the LOTH.
If Catholic Publishers has rights to this information's use then obtain a license or find out when it expires and apply for a license then.
Who knows maybe iBreviary has licensed the rights to electronic usage of the list of daily readings. If so buy a license from them.
-30-
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Kyle G. Anderson said:SineNomine said:David J. Ring, Jr. said:
One is sold in paper but I think this should have been included in Verbum's license for LOTH.
You mean https://catholicbookpublishing.com/product/1522? It's published by Catholic Book Publishing; Faithlife would have to license it from them. And it is not the LotH. And there is a new one every year.
Funny you mention this but I have a copy on my desk right now. We're in the very beginning stages of trying to put this out.
That's very good news. [Y]
David J. Ring, Jr. said:Catholic Publishing gets it's information from somewhere, maybe ICEL, for the daily readings for the LOTH and Christian Prayer it publishes.
In principle, CBP doesn't need to get its information on which texts to use when from anywhere; as long as they have even one employee who knows how to pray LotH, they have the information in-house.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
Who knows maybe iBreviary has licensed the rights to electronic usage of the list of daily readings. If so buy a license from them.
From what I understand, iBreviary operates without any licensing agreement whatsoever.
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
Who knows maybe iBreviary has licensed the rights to electronic usage of the list of daily readings. If so buy a license from them.
From what I understand, iBreviary operates without any licensing agreement whatsoever.
I’m curious about that. The DivineOffice app got caught in a quagmire over the multitude of copyrights. Of course they were charging back then and I think iBreviary is free (as DivineOffice is now).
I could be wrong, but I assumed your limitations were based on similar restrictions.
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SineNomine said:
In principle, CBP doesn't need to get its information on which texts to use when from anywhere; as long as they have even one employee who knows how to pray LotH, they have the information in-house.
Been awhile since I used the physical volumes, but i think that booklet is just a matter of CBP doing the “legwork” and looking up the page nos. of the psalter and readings of the specific day were. I guess there’s nothing to stop FL from doing the same legwork (if you know which psalter week you’re on, you can do it without the booklet)… though the consequences for them guessing wrong is probably going to be more serious than if i guess wrong.
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Verbum Max0 -
Friends,
I came across this while looking for help: https://straymonds.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/loh_guide.pdf
It seems to try to provide some explanation of the LOTH and provide an easy explanation for how to find the prayers of the day.
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If you haven't tried out Liturgy of the Hours in the lectionary layout, give it a try. St. Augustine's homily for the memorial of St. Martha is great: https://twitter.com/Verbum/status/1420865544329187330
Keep an eye out for an update next week. We continue to work on the Breviary to make it better.
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Thank you for the Liturgy of the Hours. It is point and click for me and makes reading a lot easier, since I can adjust the size of the text. Reading this has encouraged me to purchase the Roman Missal and Lectionary from your organization. Sometimes the daily readings are hard to find mainly because each of my sources has their own idea of what the readings should be for that day. I do have one question, why do Catholics assume every one knows the Our Father, and therefore never print it as a common text?? Thanks again for the adjustments you made which are now showing up.
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Jesse Richardson said:
I do have one question, why do Catholics assume every one knows the Our Father, and therefore never print it as a common text??
Welcome to the forums! [:)]
It is false that Catholics never print it as a common text. It is printed in full in the Ordinary of the 2011 Roman Missal.
In all likelihood, it was not printed in the Ordinary of the Liturgy of the Hours because, at the time, the entire intended audience of the Liturgy of the Hours actually did know the Our Father in the only English translation any Catholics ever used.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Jesse Richardson said:
why do Catholics assume every one knows the Our Father, and therefore never print it as a common text?
In both Catholic and Orthodox liturgical books, the common prayers and responses are often shortened to their first few words and printed in full only once in the resource. Why? To keep printing costs down and to keep the physical books a managable size. The same reason the year two daily readings for the Office of Readings was never implemented.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I see the Scripture readings are now added in, which is an improvement, though if it has improved navigation, I haven't discovered it yet.
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Since this thread has been dormant for over 6 months I thought I'd resurrect it (pardon the pun).
Just curious if Verbum has anything coming that would simplify the praying of the LOTH? Really the book has been all but worthless for me as it's actually easier to use my physical volumes with the ribbons and the little printed guide. Not that it's easier to CARRY the physical volumes since I already have the iPad handy. But it takes too long to try to use the Verbum resource. A homepage "app" is needed that pulls everything from the digital book so there's a reason to buy the digital book.
I keep saying Verbum remains a product marketed to Catholics but primarily designed by Protestants if it can't easily provide the LOTH.
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Patrick, check out the iBreviary or Divine Office apps for LOTH on your iPad. I use both, they are accurate, complete for all readings, and excellent.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I do have iBreviary as well as Universalis. In the interim they're OK. But I'd like a one stop shop with the slick Verbum dashboard and the ability to have my daily Office lead me into other pieces of my accumulating Verbum library. It'd be just so much more useful that way. I really think Faithlife is missing the boat here by not having something so central to authentic Catholic prayer life incorporated into their app. But then I spent YEARS with Accordance because Faithlife didn't play on the Mac. They have a track record of EVENTUALLY seeing "the light" but I sure wish they'd get a bit quicker about it.
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They could produce a new resource similar to the two available "Catholic Daily Readings" - one is plain and one came with and is marked "Catholic Daily Readings (U.S. Lectionary) which is described as list[ing] the Scripture readings used at Mass for Sundays, feasts and weekdays of the liturgical year by calendar date and displays the official liturgical text from the Lectionary for Mass for the United States while the regular Catholic Daily Readings is described as list[ing] the Scripture references for the readings used at Mass in the United States for Sundays, feasts, and weekdays of the liturgical year by calendar date, so you can easily find and study the readings of the day.
A similar resource could be made: "LOTH Daily Readings" with hyperlinks to each of the Hours, and I have a suggestion which might be educational for us and produce some income to offset the development of the Latin version of LOTH: Have a feature - if the Latin LOTH has been purchased - to view the Hours either in a split screen or English over Latin. Many of the saints over the centuries learned their Latin by reading the LOTH and repeating it. It would be even better to have English and Latin on one screen.
Mark 9:41[NABRE] Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.
[VGCLEM (40)] Quisquis enim potum dederit vobis calicem aquæ in nomine meo, quia Christi estis: amen dico vobis, non perdet mercedem suam.
I think that's basically what we all thought we were getting when Fathlife told us they're be no more page flipping. Just a very enjoyable reading and praying experience, something only reasonably possible in software because of the daily duplication of many of the parts of the LOTH, but eminently possible in Verbum.
It's certainly possible, Faithlife has the permission to make an electronic resource of LOTH, and all they will be doing with this extra included resource is just formatting the LOTH for easy reading, devotion and prayer. If a "English over Latin" tool is available, then I feel confident in saying that they will have significant increase sales of the Latin LOTH.What does the Community think?
Best wishes,
DR
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