New Insights Sidebar on the web app
Comments
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rick winters said:
I like the concept but needs further refinement.
1) give the pane ability to locate to another position. I use the web based app on my iPad and the window sizing interferes with the reading pane - Right now it is either open or closed. Have not found a way to repopen.2) The feature should have the ability to scan all of the library resources and offer suggestion. It does not do so currently.
3) add the ability to go to the App Store for additional resources.
Blessings in Christ.
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First, thank you for continuing to improve the app. The idea, I believe, is great, though like so many others I agree it should be able to be popped out into its own pane when desired. Having it essentially always offer favorited resources that are appropriate first, then any others would also be welcome. (Now for a request to make the iPad app as good as the web app or desktop app without the internet.) Like many others, I am finding myself using the web version on my iPad and then saddened when having to use just the standard iPad version when connectivity is an issue. Many ask why is not having connectivity an issue? Many of us turn our devices' connectivity off to prevent any distractions or notifications when in service and that limits the app's usefulness. Again, thank you. Keep the good work.
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My thoughts:
1. I am confused as to why we need a Explorer, Factbook, Passage Guide and now an insight bar. I thought you wanted to streamline things into Factbook. My suggestion is that we only need one, not 4 tools here. I may be missing something
2. It should be a feature that can be switched off if a user wants more real estate on their desktop. Many have said this.
3. I like the idea and can see especially how new people can take a liking to it. But my concern is that the program does not need 4 different features that seem to do similar things.
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Mark said:
2. It should be a feature that can be switched off if a user wants more real estate on their desktop. Many have said this.
I didn't check to see about the Information tool ... that'd be, let's see, five? I always confuse Explorer with Info (even as I write).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Mark said:
3. I like the idea and can see especially how new people can take a liking to it. But my concern is that the program does not need 4 different features that seem to do similar things.
That would be a valid concern if what they did was more similar.
1. Factbook is much more a wikipedia style function - it does not allow user setting of the span of the passage, the resources utilized, etc. -- think tailoring of commentary and collection input. In addition, it provides information that is not readily available via a search because the required queries are not available to the end user - think "known as" names for Biblical people. With more development, it could take over many of the functions of the guides but it is years of development away from that now. At the moment, it covers the basic research function with some limitations given its incomplete status.
2. Passage Guide is the most comprehensive tool although not everything in Factbook is available in it (entity relationships in the also see section, known as names . . .) It is basic for heavy duty research allowing you to control the resources used in translation wheels, word-by-word etc. The commentary section may appear multiple times each occurrence using a different collection based on methodology or theology. It can be tailored to include only the information of interest to you at this time, focused on a passage as short as a single verse.
3. Explorer is the ultra-lite tool which I personally rarely use because (a) I don't use Logos for reading or for spiritual growth Bible study (b) at my age, I rarely need to look up a Bible person/place/thing/event; I'm not a fan of cross-references as a base for intertextual studies ... However, if I were much younger and much more evangelical and less-liturgical and less-historical, I could see this as a very useful tool for looking up unfamiliar Biblical entities and opening top commentaries. Given the contents of the media section, I have more trouble seeing how I would actually use it so I'll leave that to others.
4. Insights is more like Explorer than Factbook or Passage Guide. It has distinct limitations for those used to broad sweeps across a large library but it does allow for the selection of the resource of your choice. It fits best with two groups (a) those with very few resources and limited functionality within Logos and (b) those simply reading for spiritual growth who want a step above a study Bible but not wanting to do serious research. The real danger to the developer here is to add too many features and thus lose the "glance over for a bit of help" advantage it offers when simply reading not researching. In other words, Insights and Explorer are both intended to keep the user focused on the Bible text not on researching the text in other resources.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark said:
1. I am confused as to why we need a Explorer, Factbook, Passage Guide and now an insight bar. I thought you wanted to streamline things into Factbook. My suggestion is that we only need one, not 4 tools here. I may be missing something
You're right that there's a lot of overlap between those tools, and we do need to either (a) make the distinctions between them clearer, or (b) consolidate them together.
The key difference between the Insights Sidebar and Guides and Factbook is:
- The sidebar shows only what we hope is the most relevant and important "at-a-glance" information about a passage. Guides and Factbook are intended to be much more comprehensive.
- The sidebar brings that information right into the Bible. You don't need to know anything about using the library, or linksets in order to benefit.
The tool that comes closest to this is the Explorer Tool on desktop. It's likely that if we bring the Insights Sidebar to desktop it will replace the Explorer tool.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
You're right that there's a lot of overlap between those tools
Thank you MJ and Mark for your responses. Let me suggest, if you have not yet thought about it, that you consider combining the 4 plus info (I think it is 5) tools together. Let me explain the idea:
1. Have the simple insights sidebar as you are thinking about it. You already have a way for us to toggle it off if we want or need to.
2. Add the ability for users to add in more options to the insight sidebar...as many as the user wishes. It can thus become a factbook or passage guide.
3. Allow users to separate the insight sidebar to be in its own panel if they want so it could function as the passage guide does now. This gives users the ability to have the traditional passage guide as it is now, or to use it as this new insight sidebar.
Hopefully you follow the idea.
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Mark, I see your idea and think it deserves consideration. However, I would not support it. I believe that it is important to have simple tools for the users with limited needs and limited resources. By simple tools I mean tools with few options that they can accidentally set and get unwanted behavior with no idea why. I would support sunsetting the Explorer when Insight is implemented. I would also support the merging of Guide and Factbook sections but only if the flexibility of the Guides be retained. For me, that especially means being able to deal with only one section as the entire results; I mainly use single section Guides or single function Guides. I am sure that there are many who would support your suggestion more fully.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ
You have good thoughts here as well. Hopefully, Mark is getting the feedback he needs to make the right decisions
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If I can talk from a mobile user experience, make the passage guide work the way insights works and scrap insights, or scrap the passage guide and bring all its features to insights. The problem is with passage guide on mobile vs the insights, the insights lets you stay the whole time on screen, no extra panels being opened when you want to read a different Study Bible or commentary, where passage guide it opens a panel and every time you open a resource from the passage list a new panel is opened. So it’s a complete left and right swiping on the screen on mobile to get back to your Bible and the notes tab to make notes. Logos could learn a lot from its competitor Olive Tree mobile app. They have something similar for your ordinary Bibe study people where you stay on page the whole time and all your recourses like Study Bible, commentaries, cross reference, places, people, maps, charts are all under a study tab, and next to the tab is the parallel Bible option for a different translation or you are able to add a preferred commentarie and then that recourses works like your link set, then they have a notes tab where you are still on screen decided into two halves and you are able to make notes, and then they have a tab lookup which makes use of dictionaries. So if can Sny this please go and have a look at Olive Tree. If you could bring what they have to Logos I think Logos will stand out, as the only reason I make use Logos instead of Olive Tree is only the varieties of Highlights Options, the options for text format and the option to add an anchor. So if Olive Tree had these I would sadly had to say that as a mobile user the Olive Tree mobile just works for me better as everything happens on one screen you never leaf the screen, and the best part of it you just click on the tab to bring or hide the study tool which is in your case the insight option. If this could be done for mobile users that is just doing an ordinary study of the Bible that does not frustrate the user by constantly swiping left to wright to get to this or that resource and back to your Bible and notes, Bible study on Logos Mobile would be ease and joyful.
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Greetings!
Today I opened my Logos app and was not greeted by the sidebar!
Hallelujah! My study has been in the Book of Acts, paragraph by paragraph. So, I'm reading the same passage almost daily. So, it was more of a nuisance that a help since. Plus I can click the "i" icon for information.
Thanks.
Hope Scott, M.Ed.
#MinutesWord Podcast0 -
Greetings!
Today I opened my Logos app and was not greeted by the sidebar!
Hallelujah! My study has been in the Book of Acts, paragraph by paragraph. So, I'm reading the same passage almost daily. So, it was more of a nuisance that a help since. Plus I can click the "i" icon for information.
Thanks.
Hope Scott, M.Ed.
#MinutesWord Podcast0 -
I really like it. It is simple and easy. I hope Logos goes towards this path of making things simpler. Logos should appeal to all levels of those who want to study the word of God.
- Is it helpful: Yes! It gives a good base.
- Can you see yourself using it? Yes. I already have.
- What changes would you make? None right now.
- What info? Like what it brings up now.
- Is it worth bringing? Yes. It is a time saver.
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Love It!
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I think this is a wonderful attempt, but it’s not showing what I need. I would love to have this show my notes. I have spent years on my notes, and I wish there was a way to make them visible as I scroll. Please make it very fast, and let it display the images I hand-write as well.
I think that would be an amazing feature. Right now, the passage guide configured can do everything this tab does, and better - faster too. Even the exegetical guide can do a much more powerful job when "edited". I really want to see my notes.
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Fred said:
but it’s not showing what I need.
Have you made your suggestion in the suggestion forums on on the feedback site Roadmap | Logos?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hi Friend,
No I have not. At your prompting - I did take a look. I'm not at all sure this is monitored.
There are
- 103 Requests for Logos Web App
- 0 of these are in progress.
- 2 are "planned" one of which has only 1 vote, and the other is 3years old.
- Nothing is "under consideration"
It doesn't feel that it would be a good use of time to post any feedback there. I
I would appreciate some feedback if I missed something obvious here [:)]
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I would prefer to have a commentary tool that
1. Shows you the complete info on that verse instead of clicking more.
2. Allows you to choose your collections. For example: all Study Bibles
3. Includes the corresponding selection filter so I can click in my Bible and see in my commentary a related word.
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chasingrest said:
I would appreciate some feedback if I missed something obvious here
I agree they are sloppy about updating statuses but experience shows that they do listen and do respond it the form of selected projects. My attitude at the moment is on the grumpy side ... if one doesn't bring it to the attention of Logos through the Suggestions forum or the feedback site, don't expect to see change.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Just so we're clear. What does this provide that passage guide does not provide - in a more comprehensive and customizable way? For what I mean by "´comprehensive and customizable" see the screenshot below. Every component of this is editable, I can have as much or as little as I want. I guess the use of AI is the distinctive feature here, but as I implied above, that's likely better used to help us mine, organize and resurface our notes.
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chasingrest said:
What does this provide that passage guide does not provide - in a more comprehensive and customizable way?
Nothing ... nor is it intended to. Rather it is more the answer to the question "What can I see without knowing anything about customization or prioritization?"
chasingrest said:I guess the use of AI is the distinctive feature here,
I don't understand - for the search, yes, but for insights?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This is so good. I usually use study bible and bible commentaries. This helps me not only get to things I need in no time, it also reminds me of materials I brought.
If advancement is possible, any area on screen reminding our own purchase recently (like in 3 months or latest 10 materials brought) would also be of great help.
Thanks for hearing from us. God bless your work.
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The best would be if pesonal books could be added here.
Blessings in Christ.
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Anything like this I find very helpful, I find it to be very great and exciting!
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Anything like this I find very helpful, I find it to be very great and exciting!
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Great idea for new users to get familiar with using the software when it seems overwhelming at times.
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It could be helpful if you allowed me to prioritize which resources are shown. That might be helpful in searches also. You might also use data science to infer which resources I will find helpful based on the other commentaries I have used if my own prioritization can't be taken.
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It could be helpful if you allowed me to prioritize which resources are shown. That might be helpful in searches also. You might also use data science to infer which resources I will find helpful based on the other commentaries I have used if my own prioritization can't be taken.
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It could be helpful if you allowed me to prioritize which resources are shown. That might be helpful in searches also. You might also use data science to infer which resources I will find helpful based on the other commentaries I have used if my own prioritization can't be taken.
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Jason Lamar said:
It could be helpful if you allowed me to prioritize which resources are shown.
It does follow your standard prioritization and to choose other resources to see.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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