Removing titles from the Logos platform
Some of you have noticed recently an influx of titles on the Logos platform that aren’t related to Bible study. One of our company priorities is bringing you new books faster so Logos can be your one-stop shop for ebooks of all kinds. We’ve gotten feedback in the past that users want to consolidate all their ebooks in Logos, but we have a ways to go before we can serve users in this way.
However, as many of you have noted, a difficulty in broadening the content available on logos.com is that we rely on publishers to provide relevant, helpful content that doesn’t violate our standards of containing erotic/graphic language or inciting violence. (You can read our entire distribution philosophy here.) Many Bible-focused, respected publishers add books to the Logos platform using an automated feed. Some of these publishers have imprints that publish books which sometimes violate our standards—and these imprints also send books to the Logos platform using the automated feed. We’ve always used BISAC codes to filter out as many of these books as we can and we take down individual titles as we find them.
However, we’re currently working to tighten these controls so the Logos platform is always a safe place for going deeper in the Bible. A few things that means going forward:
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We have turned off the automatic feed for publishers and publishing imprints with multiple titles that violate our distribution philosophy. This means that titles from these publishers will be reviewed to ensure nothing erotic/graphic or violent makes it to our website.
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Our team will review titles flagged by users like you within one business day. If a title violates our standards against erotic, graphic, or violent language, we will remove it ASAP. You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos.
We apologize for the few resources that have bypassed our filtering system in the past. Thank you to those who have brought them to our attention so we could immediately remove them, and thank you for continuing to trust Logos to help you go deeper in your study of Scripture.
VP, Content Products
Logos
Comments
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Thank you for reiterating/clarifying the criteria for excluding titles from the automatic feed. They are quite reasonable. But please, don't cave in to pressure that sometimes builds over the wording of a title for a book with content quite appropriate for Logos.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Some of you have noticed recently an influx of titles on the Logos platform that aren’t related to Bible study. One of our company priorities is bringing you new books faster so Logos can be your one-stop shop for ebooks of all kinds. We’ve gotten feedback in the past that users want to consolidate all their ebooks in Logos, but we have a ways to go before we can serve users in this way.
However, as many of you have noted, a difficulty in broadening the content available on logos.com is that we rely on publishers to provide relevant, helpful content that doesn’t violate our standards of containing erotic/graphic language or inciting violence. (You can read our entire distribution philosophy here.) Many Bible-focused, respected publishers add books to the Logos platform using an automated feed. Some of these publishers have imprints that publish books which sometimes violate our standards—and these imprints also send books to the Logos platform using the automated feed. We’ve always used BISAC codes to filter out as many of these books as we can and we take down individual titles as we find them.
However, we’re currently working to tighten these controls so the Logos platform is always a safe place for going deeper in the Bible. A few things that means going forward:
-
We have turned off the automatic feed for publishers and publishing imprints with multiple titles that violate our distribution philosophy. This means that titles from these publishers will be reviewed to ensure nothing erotic/graphic or violent makes it to our website.
-
Our team will review titles flagged by users like you within one business day. If a title violates our standards against erotic, graphic, or violent language, we will remove it ASAP. You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos.
We apologize for the few resources that have bypassed our filtering system in the past. Thank you to those who have brought them to our attention so we could immediately remove them, and thank you for continuing to trust Logos to help you go deeper in your study of Scripture.
Sounds very positive. I'm one of those who loves to have all my Christian books in one place, although I'm less worried by having "secular" ebooks in Logos. In addition to your comments, it would be great if publishers didn't apparently overlook Logos when it comes to ebook sales of resources in the Faithlife ebooks store. If you follow the Faithlife ebooks forum, you'll see many overlooked sales.
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I give you a big "ATTA BOY" for doing this. It helps to strengthen my resolve in Logos!!! Thank you! [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Thank you for taking these steps. One thing I look to Logos for is a curated catalogue of works that can advance my study of God's word. For me, personally, Logos would be less useful and appealing to me if it turned into another Amazon.
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Appreciate the openness and the steps you are taking, Matt!
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Appreciate the openness and the steps you are taking, Matt!
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Thank you, Matt! That sure helps a lot clearing the clutter on the website 👍
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"We apologize for the few resources that have bypassed our filtering system in the past."
1. Unfortunately, from what I've read, the offending resources can hardly be classified as "few," at least in number if not percentage.
2. Your "policy" regarding content is meaningless unless it is effective.
3. Your (LOGOS) failure to respond to a subscriber's concern regarding this matter for close to one month has caused this matter to snowball into something that has resulted in a very visible stain on the reputation of Logos/Faithlife.
4. Trust has to earned, and this matter has damaged the trust. You need to do much better before that trust can be returned.
5. Thank you for finally responding in a positive way to this. I would still expect an effort to examine why this was not discovered sooner, and why Logos did not respond in a more timely way when this matter was first reported.
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IBID
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I just added a tag "hide:author bigoted" to 42 books by an author currently in the news for a very offensive statement. That is more titles than I have seen in 20+ years of sexual/violence materials in Logos.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I’m glad something is being done. I had voiced my concerns last month and now It’s on the Protista website, X, and YouTube. Not a good look but I have faith that the Gospel truth prevail. Because I have been with logos since logos 2.
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The Protestia article was very damaging, where complaints was disregarded. I asked myself what I should do hereafter. I am not fully sure yet.
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Thank you for taking these steps. One thing I look to Logos for is a curated catalogue of works that can advance my study of God's word. For me, personally, Logos would be less useful and appealing to me if it turned into another Amazon.
I agree with this statement by EastTN.
I for one have no desire to read one of my cookbooks (for example) within the Logos platform, when this is easily done on other platforms. I prefer when Logos does what I believe it does better than any other platform — help me in my study of God's word. While we all may desire for these resources in Logos to grow faster and be made cheaper, I am willing to wait and spend more money (if need be) for the quality within Logos that I have come to expect throughout the years.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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Thank you for taking these steps. One thing I look to Logos for is a curated catalogue of works that can advance my study of God's word. For me, personally, Logos would be less useful and appealing to me if it turned into another Amazon.
I agree with this statement by EastTN.
I for one have no desire to read one of my cookbooks (for example) within the Logos platform ...
First, cookbooks (example) are much better in an cooking app.
But what exactly is the issue here (not questioning violence, erotica/graphic).
- If you don't buy cookbooks they won't be in your library. No 'Jane's Hunky Cowboy' either. Seems to me, the issue is Logos.com (specifically) including a lot of junk (cookbooks, novels, etc). There's no easy way to have user-managed filters (the carot menu is a pain). Shopping is currently painful, and I avoid it.
- If you DO buy cookbooks, novels etc, it's a pain managing them, relative to religious use. Everytime a search, you have to do this or that. Versus separate libraries. If you have kids, you can't give them their area for ease of use ... all one big pot.
My guess (no offense) is marketing-wise, FL needs the purchases, no matter. Why else, mindlessly dump in books?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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The Protestia article was very damaging, where complaints was disregarded. I asked myself what I should do hereafter. I am not fully sure yet.
I had never heard of Protestia before so I checked it out. To me, part #2 was a damaging article because I was able to click on a link and see that Logos has refused to stop selling some of these books. It might still be a work in progress for them but with their previous record on this subject, I doubt it.
I know that I am probably in the minority, but I changed my spending habits at Logos several months ago when I first became aware of this. These articles just reaffirm to me that I made the right decision.
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Wellll..... If I was running the Logos Company .... we all know it would be perfect in every way.... right? LOL LOL LOL....
I fully realize that statement is wrong... just because I'm human and not perfect. Knowing this causes me to consider to give a little leniency to others and understand they will also make mistakes. If those mistakes become the trend of what they do, that's one thing. But if they try to and do correct their mistakes, welll.... that's another thing.
I see Logos making mistakes, no doubt, mainly because Logos is run by a group of humans, and if those humans are like me... welll... they make mistakes.
But... I am thankful that Logos is actually trying to correct their mistakes. That's why I gave them a big "ATTA BOY"! And .... I would hope we all would encourage them in keeping on doing this.
That's my opinion, and mine alone! [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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But what exactly is the issue here (not questioning violence, erotica/graphic).
It's a discussion we've had several times on the forums, and it's likely that people will continue to disagree. I personally find a great deal of value in specialty retailers who maintain a curated stock of high-quality items related to a particular interest of mine. That's what I personally look for from Logos. If Logos doesn't actively curate their catalog, then they're just another Amazon with better software. I personally don't have any interest in that.
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"Cleis Press is the largest independent sexuality publishing company in the United States. With a focus on LGBTQ, BDSM, romance, and erotic writing for all ..." If this sounds like a "respected publisher" that "adds books to the Logos platform using an automated feed," then I would be interested in knowing how they got the feed in the first place. I would also like to know why, as of a few minutes ago, their disgusting trash is still on the platform. I'm still waiting to be told why previous complaints about this situation were not addressed.
I am willing to be charitable, but before I start handing out compliments, I'm going to need some answers, and I would like them to be honest answers.
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I thought they might be owned by a major publisher, but they are not. They are owned by Start Publishing, which does not publish anything you really need in Logos."Cleis Press is the largest independent sexuality publishing company in the United States. With a focus on LGBTQ, BDSM, romance, and erotic writing for all ..." If this sounds like a "respected publisher" that "adds books to the Logos platform using an automated feed," then I would be interested in knowing how they got the feed in the first place.
I appreciate the plan going forward, but I think that the "have every ebook" idea was a pretty clear example of the mission creep that plagued Logos for a while.Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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I do not have any inside information, but I do have a guess.
Logos does supply books to seminaries and other academic institutions. Even at conservative schools, there are courses which utilize sources from different backgrounds for the purpose of education (even if refuting). It would be easy to see some school utilizing a source from that publisher.
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That might be interesting JT. I hate to think that they would intentionally do that, but a very smart man once told me that the answer to all your questions is "money." Thanks for that thought brother
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Logos does supply books to seminaries and other academic institutions. Even at conservative schools, there are courses which utilize sources from different backgrounds for the purpose of education (even if refuting). It would be easy to see some school utilizing a source from that publisher.
Seeing that this book is geared towards children, I highly doubt that any academic institution is using it for a textbook.
The Junior Witch’s Handbook: A Kid’s Guide to White Magic, Spells, and Rituals. The link is still active at the time of posting.
Edit: Logos used to be a safe bookstore for all family members, regardless of age. It is not that place anymore.
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Seeing that this book is geared towards children, I highly doubt that any academic institution is using it for a textbook.
The point was that if the publisher had a book which was used as a textbook (remember: not all "textbooks" are things taught as true in the course), then their books could get caught into the automatic feed.
There is a difference between how books come into the catalog for "Logos" edition resources and "ebooks." For the latter, the publisher pushes them through... which is part of the messaging in the OP.
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Since we continue to get questions, we’d like to provide a quick update.
We are thankful to the customers who brought this issue to our attention. It revealed oversights in our filtering system we are now able to fix.
Our team is actively in the midst of a large-scale cleanup, and while many of these items were immediately removed from the public view, as noted, they were still searchable through our print library feature and website. We are tightening the system to prevent these situations moving forward.
Due to the scope and size of our catalog, it may take some time to address every instance, but we are actively auditing our resources and doing our best to clean this up ASAP. If you see anything that needs immediate attention, please report it to titlereview@logos.com.
Thank you for your patience and charity in this matter. We know many of you trust Logos to be a safe space, and we are working hard and quickly to keep it that way.
VP, Content Products
Logos
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The Junior Witch’s Handbook: A Kid’s Guide to White Magic, Spells, and Rituals.
So, which is it:
-Violence
-Erotica
-Graphic
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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"Cleis Press is the largest independent sexuality publishing company in the United States. With a focus on LGBTQ, BDSM, romance, and erotic writing for all ..." If this sounds like a "respected publisher" that "adds books to the Logos platform using an automated feed," then I would be interested in knowing how they got the feed in the first place. I would also like to know why, as of a few minutes ago, their disgusting trash is still on the platform. I'm still waiting to be told why previous complaints about this situation were not addressed.
I am willing to be charitable, but before I start handing out compliments, I'm going to need some answers, and I would like them to be honest answers.
There's only one title by this publisher in the store. For those interested, it's The Collected Writings of Bayard Rustin, a civil rights activist and key strategist/adviser to Martin Luther King, Jr. This is not a BDSM/romance/erotic title. There's nothing overtly sexual about the title, cover, or description of this book. This "disgusting trash" is simply the collected works of a key civil rights leader, and a review of the table of contents indicates that the book is about his experiences in the civil rights movement and his perspective on civil/human rights and non-violent resistance.
I'm not trying to argue with anyone, nor will I be arguing with anyone. I just wanted to introduce some facts into the discussion that the quoted post neglected to mention. This is why I would rather decide for myself whether a book is appropriate than have a minority of the loudest users deciding for everyone else what we can and cannot purchase in Logos.
I'm also posting just in case others wanted to purchase the book before Logos removed it. It's reasonably priced for a 422-page book and represents a diverse perspective you don't often find in Logos.
Carry on.
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We want to thank the user who initially flagged this for us. We missed replying to his request for follow up and wish we hadn't. When we were contacted we took quick action to remove the titles we were alerted to. We desire to provide all of our users with high quality care and view this as an important learning moment for us.
Kristen Tetteh
Director of Customer Experience
Logos
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I would also like to know why, as of a few minutes ago, their disgusting trash is still on the platform.
I assume you've read a representative sampling of their publications before making this statement. Except for their erotic volumes, many of their volumes are current research on various topics of importance to a pastor for counseling and for political issues.
Cleis Press is an American independent publisher of books in the areas of sexuality, erotica, feminism, gay and lesbian studies, gender studies, fiction, and human rights. The press was founded in 1980 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It later moved to San Francisco and was based out of Berkeley until its purchase by Start Media in 2014. It was founded by Frédérique Delacoste, Felice Newman and Mary Winfrey Trautmann who collectively financed wrote and published the press's first book Fight Back: Feminist Resistance to Male Violence in 1981. In 1987, they published Sex Work: Writings by Women in the Sex Industry by Delacoste with Priscilla Alexander.
. . . In 2000, Cleis Press founded Midnight Editions, a human rights imprint that aims to present fiction, nonfiction, and photojournalism from regions where repression and censorship are endangering creative expression. Midnight Editions published The Little School: Tales of Disappearance and Survival in Argentina, a 1986 memoir by former political prisoner and Amnesty International board member Alicia Partnoy, as well as The Diary of a Political ****: Normal Life in Belgrade by Jasmina Tešanović.
. . . The press has been the recipient of many awards, including several Lambda Literary Awards in 2010.
I, for one, will be far more cautious in recommending Logos if they block the serious discussion and documentation of sexual issues - my congregation has genders and lives in a world that has genders. The erotica published by this publisher is inappropriate on Logos based on the policy statment.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The Junior Witch’s Handbook: A Kid’s Guide to White Magic, Spells, and Rituals. The link is still active at the time of posting.
Edit: Logos used to be a safe bookstore for all family members, regardless of age. It is not that place anymore.
There has always been heretical "Christian" works that I would consider potentially more dangerous to children/grandchildren than a kid's grimoire. The kid's grimoire is easy to teach kids to read with discernment/amusement. Some of the heretical works are far more difficult to teach the children why it is dangerous.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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First, cookbooks (example) are much better in an cooking app.
Excuse me; you guys are sounding like Christians with a very shallow cultural presence. I have a number of cookbooks, art projects, traditional practices and prayers that are tied into the Christian calendar. Surely, you've heard of hot-cross buns or King's cakes. For those whose ministry including catechism/faith formation for family, these books totally belong in Logos/Verbum.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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