Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos
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A few years ago, the government told us "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor." I hope this doesn't turn out to be the same kind of promise.
Which govt? I'm Canadian. Mine?? I had a hard enough time getting the doctor I have!
Please don't assume all on here live where you live.
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I have changed my opinion after reading this thread, for two main reasons I had not really considered:
1) I am all for getting Logos with most/all the features into the hands of those who cannot commit to a significant initial outlay as soon as possible.
2) Even without using the AI features, there are still costs to Faithlife for me having an account, such as syncing the documents and notes, the webapp, the mobile app, and whilst yes I could possibly manage a backup solution for myself, it would likely be no where near as functional. This to me seems to justify a small ongoing fee.
A higher rate with a fallback for offline features would be nice, but this seems to be a happy thing for now.
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Mark,
Can you describe what the other tiers will be? Most of my study is with Hebrew and Greek and I see the Pro Tier is aimed at pastors specifically (and I am certainly not that).0 -
If you are asking for people's opinions, I would prefer this as an additional add on apart from logos packages, I want to make sure I could get further upgrades apart from this AI logos pro that doesn't have the subscription. I always want to option to upgrade without a a subscription.
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LBS,
Aside from AI and temporary books, what is my incentive for continuing my LogosPro subscription?
In other words. will a continued subscription garner any other benefits down the line? For as far as I have gathered there are no further benefits. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.1 1TB SSD
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The more I read the more questions come to mind. I honestly don’t have a problem paying a modest (emphasis on modest) fee for ongoing support/server time/ whatever that helps me in my pursuit of Bible study. I can see that I will be a low usage consumer of AI. My library is growing but not nearly as large as if I was a ten-year native of Logos. Nevertheless a lot of the resources I would gladly scuttle if I had to pay for supporting them in some AI calculation. Really, some resources are dross that I have acquired with Legacy sets. I keep them simply because they may dynamically reduce the cost of some other library I will want to purchase. As we all know, you can often get a legacy set for less than buying what you really seek. My point is keep this model simple. Keep an incentive for making new purchases as well as supporting Logos. We both benefit
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At the same time, in terms of how Logos is built, you should think of it as a kind of "operating system," with each tool in Logos being a separate "app." So making these dark mode changes meant changing the code of several dozen "apps." In the majority of cases, it only took a day or two to make the necessary changes, but the sheer number of tools in Logos meant it was a surprisingly significant investment – and as such, we feel it's appropriate for those who funded that investment through their subscriptions to get the benefit, or at least get early access.
Hi Phil and Mark,
That was super helpful.
My sense from people’s concerns on this Forum is that they don’t want to pay subscription for something that should be a 1-time purchase. Is it possible to put the features in 3 buckets:
- Features that don’t require much updates – can be sold via perpetual license, but with a small annual fees for updates, bug fixes etc. (No need to give Basic for free bcos it still costs you)
- Features that require regular maintenance – charge a flat subscription fee/month
- Features whose cost is proportional to library (example: cloud backup) – charge subscription fee/month that depends on library size
Maybe, the above classification is not realistic, but thought I’ll give it a try.
By the way, as finance folks can attest, (2) and (3) don’t need monthly subscription fees because we can easily find today’s value of the stream of future costs that Logos would incur and then add a profit margin to arrive at the perpetual license price. This is what you all are doing right now and you are making profits. It is just that you are moving to different revenue-cost business model.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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This whole rollout is a bit of a mess. I feel for Logos people as they are trying to create a unified subscription for two entirely different customers... people with huge libraries and previous investment and new users who want a simpler on-ramp.
I dont know exactly what they plan on doing, but the subscriptions just need to be in a menu format instead of trying to create an overly simplified one-fits-all approach.
For example:
Option 1: Features
- Base Features - $X/mo (required for all subscribers)
Option 2: AI Function
- No AI features - $0
- AI features (low usage) $X
- AI features (high usage) $XX
Option 3: Resources:
- No Resources - $0
- Bronze - $X
- Silver - $XX
- Gold - $XXX
- etc
You would just pick what you want from each bucket. This serves all people how they want to be served. I understand folks not liking a subscription, but I dont see any difference between paying for a new feature upgrade ever 2 years and paying 1/24th of that cost in a monthly subscription. I think folks just dont want to be forced into paying for 3rd party AI costs or books that they already own.
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I understand folks not liking a subscription, but I dont see any difference between paying for a new feature upgrade ever 2 years and paying 1/24th of that cost in a monthly subscription.
Of course there's a difference. I had Logos Now/FL Connect for a few years, dropped it, and had nothing except for the features I had paid for before and during my subscription years. I have no problem with subscriptions but, as they are presently (*), they are not synonymous with paying upfront and owning for 'life'. There are advantage and disadvantages to both models.
(*If Logos goes the way of the 'lease to purchase' model that has been discussed here, it would be the best of both worlds)
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Personally, I don't mind the cost, and plan to lay out the cash for whatever comes out in the fall. I just don't like the feeling of having a hose in my arm for 24 months between versions.
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Additionally, an increasingly online product that is only leased, not owned, becomes increasingly more susceptible to catastrophic loss (business failure, ransomware attacks, service/server failure, political unrest). A fallback to what I already own is nice, but a full fallback to what I have continually paid for would be better.
I have used Logos payment plans in the past. If ongoing cash flow is what's needed for Logos to thrive, then why not make all products permanentr licenses, but also make them all payment plans. This would be tantamount to subscriptions for newer verrsions, and could also contain the optional subscriptions for items not licensed.
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My first impression is that the summarization of the article is the value in that you then decide to dig deeper Or move on to the next hit.
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My first impression is that the summarization of the article is the value in that you then decide to dig deeper or move on to the next hit.Thank you for the video0
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As a perspective NEW USER (only free version and monthly free books) who is CONSIDERING purchasing a "starter feature set" and the PTW Commentary series (in my shopping cart), I am all the more confused and not entirely sure this business will be around in 10 years for me access the items I have purchased.
FWIW... The confusion of your entire business model has done nothing but delay my purchase of ANYTHING. I just don't "get it".
Let me buy the software (I don't mind paying) and let me buy the books I want. This nearly "forcing" someone into a package with three trillion books is, well "fishy".
Seems the prudent thing is to BUY now so we don't have to RENT later.
I am just a stay at home layperson seeking to be drenched in the word daily.
Hmmmm.0 -
My thought too. I have items in my cart. I can't press the button. Starting to think hard cover books might be the way to go. Hmmm
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"sitting at home doing his Daily Devotional or Bible Reading/Study."
Thats me. Have not spent a dime yet on Logos. Will see how this fleshes out.0 -
My thought too. I have items in my cart. I can't press the button. Starting to think hard cover books might be the way to go. Hmmm
The problem is… if you have a fire… you are done! And then there is the problem of lending someone a book and never seeing it again!
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LOL... truth!
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LOL... truth!
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LOL... truth!
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I hope that you'll continue to offer the feature sets in the future. Many people around the world don't always have access to the internet and may not be able to afford a monthly or yearly subscription. Selling the feature sets would assist them and everyone else as well.
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My thought too. I have items in my cart. I can't press the button. Starting to think hard cover books might be the way to go. Hmmm
The problem is… if you have a fire… you are done! And then there is the problem of lending someone a book and never seeing it again!
We lost our home to fire a little over 5 years ago and I lost the majority of my paper library. What I didn’t lose is my Logos library. I am so blessed to have my Logos library and I plan to stay with Logos, as I feel they have been good to me. The lost books that I replaced through Logos cost nowhere near what they would have cost to replace in paper.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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I hate the idea of subscriptions.
If Logos moves to subscriptions for new features in the future, I will not invest anymore in Logos.0 -
I own A lot of content for school and ministry and I will not be subscribing. With so many things moving to subscriptions, I am constantly evaluating which subscriptions to ditch. Netflix vs Prime vs Disney… comcast vs hotspot… and low Logos subscription vs free stuff vs what I’ve already got?
Subscription model will have the greatest impact on those who need to pinch the pennies for the slim years. This means Logos will cease to be supportive For bivocational Pastors like me.
I like ownership. I like the monthly free book. I like finding specific items by authors that I trust. I don’t want access to everything. This Ifeels like what I’ve invested in so far will no longer be a priority for Faithlife so this announcement is a huge loss For me As logos had become my favorite Bible study tool.
I truly hope that the subscription model will not become the main product but an optional one and that what I’ve invested in will be a thing that gets passed down from o the next generation, but that particular idea seems to be coming to an end..
I do recognize that profit is king in these decisions as this is a business not a Ministry. And tailoring to those wishing to pay money monthly will the be most bang for buck for the benefit of the business. But it’s a loss for me, who has really enjoyed the idea of a library that I own, tailored to my ministry, that will continue to grow as new resources are added. Its been an awesome ride. Sad to see it come to an end.
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Guys, I'm not particularly thrilled with subscriptions either, but Logos is not going to stop selling books. That fear is unfounded.
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Its been an awesome ride. Sad to see it come to an end.
We have very little concrete information right now, but from what I've heard, things are going to be ok. I would be very surprised if your ride with Logos is coming to an end. Most of what you love about Logos will likely continue without much change. Nothing has been launched yet; they are simply testing the waters and gathering feedback.
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I own A lot of content for school and ministry and I will not be subscribing.
You realize you can continue to use Logos without subscribing to anything, right?
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[The caveat is functionality/features that rely on AI. You do not lose access to your owned content like datasets, interlinears, Factbook, Notes tool. Nor will they cease to work as long as you update to the latest Logos software version (free). Ten years cannot be guaranteed, but Logos are committed to maintaining your current perpetual license.
The problem with the statement that Ten Years cannot be guaranteed and the fact that Logos has dropped features in the past is their advertising:
https://www.logos.com/ways-to-upgrade
See the statement about features:
Option 2: Feature Upgrade
Add the Features You’re Missing
You can upgrade your Logos without investing in additional books. Choose from upgrades including some or all new Logos features. Whichever you choose, those features are yours to keep forever.
It does NOT say you may have access to, or for as long as we support said feature.... It says forever! Which has always been the marketing - but has also been an issue, which is why many have issues with the new direction.... I was told the same with the Sermon File Addin, yet I do not have it any longer and had to upgrade to get access to the current Sermon function, which is not what I'd prefer....
Logos has shown no regard for honoring their marketing in the past and this is the concern going to subscription based with the "carrot" held in front of long time users who helped build Logos with their purchases, with the philosophy that they will only get all features with a subscription going forward.The only features limitied to subscription should be AI related, or features that require subscription for online activity. To liimit new feature to that type of feature is also a failure to continue building a better product for ALL users. New Features can be added that do not require online costs along the AI lines.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Hey Mark,
Truly appreciate you and the people at Logos. You guys have done a great job with the software. That said, I'd really appreciate the opportunity to purchase the features outright. Another subscription would not be something I'd be interested in.
Thanks,
Matt
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I apologize if this has already been discussed. I am concerned about privacy. Will our notes be fed into the 3rd party AI service? Will we need to start taking notes outside of Logos to keep them private from a 3rd party AI service?
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