a question from an Accordance User
Comments
-
I think Logos can have the best of both worlds, but they're not going to copy Accordance features. They'll probably rethink some Accordance features to see if they can make Accordance users feel a little more comfortable.
Regarding multiple workspaces, perhaps a win/win would be to implement it in a fashion similar to what Arc Browser does. I have a personal workspace, a work workspace and a biblical studies workspace.
https://resources.arc.net/hc/en-us/articles/19228064149143-Spaces-Distinct-Browsing-Areas
This keeps the UI simple for those wanting a static workspace experience but allows power users to load multiple layouts simultaneously.
I will be cheeky and tag @Mark Barnes (Logos) and @Bradley Grainger (Logos) in this thread. It costs nothing to suggest…
3 -
I hope Logos will allow one to do more regex (regular expression type searches), for example, searching on vowel points and patterns irrespective of the consonants in Hebrew text. The 'Search Matching Commands' currently does not allow for this. Also, regex would allow for searching on combinations of accents and vowels which Logos also is currently not able to do.
I understand this isn't a feature that is going to get the majority of people to pull out their walets and pocket books.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
4 -
What would be really cool is if Logos could us AI to allow natural language searches. "Find every qamets chatuph in the Pentateuch."
3 -
If they did that I would be a lot more tempted to join a Logos subscription plan, however, I would also like to be able to run the same type regular expression searches manually as well.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
1 -
Hi @Frank Sauer,
The advantage of the multiple workspaces is that I can have them all open at the same time. So I can have one workspace with 20 tabs on the right side of my screen, and another workspace open with 20 tabs on the left side of my screen, and another workspace with 20 tabs open on the right side of my second monitor, and another open with 20 tabs open on the left side of my second monitor, and another workspace with 20 tabs minimized. All the workspaces are all named of course, but each tab has also been named by me, keeping it ultra organized and I can view everything at once. Then I have Skype or Zoom open over it and I can move that window off to the side so it is not covering anything, and I can view everything at once.
In reality I have far more open, but having the ability to have four open and viewable at the same time is the bare minimum. With the Logos layout, I can only see one at a time, and as the video meeting progresses, I can only see part of the information at once, or be constantly opening and closing layouts as the meeting continues, and neither of those options are functional.
4 -
+1 - I have been interested in what AI can do in searches, as well as helping us make connections in the 'Text Comparison Tool' 👍️
2 -
That would be a nice addition for a multi monitor setup
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
1 -
Since you never open Accordance any longer - do they offer the "Account Transfer" that Logos does? You may be able to sell it and have a nice Logos expansion budget from the proceeds…
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
1 -
I think that since it was given to me when I left Accordance and I didn't actually purchase it, that it wouldn't transfer since none of the publishers received any royalties from it. Would be nice though :-)
1 -
I would even be willing to sign something saying I won't use them in Accordance anymore.
4 -
Well, there are lots of factors that would make this very difficult to do. I've worked at both companies, and I can't speak for what Accordance does now, but I am am familiar with what we did when I was there. I know in the past, Accordance used to offer a 30% discount on Collections (their version of what Logos calls Base Packages) for new users coming over from competing platforms. This is easily comparable to our recent introductory pricing on Logos 2025 Base Packages. And, of course, last October, we had an incredible 50% off Logos 10 Base Packages in the "Last Chance" sale.
Accordance used to try to offer "crossgrade" deals, which amounted to discounts on titles or series you might have in competing software. However, it was never widespread because it required the participation of publishers to either wave royalties or offer reduced royalties, and most publishers declined to participate. I believe the old Accordance webpage that kept track of the crossgrade deals on individual titles and series was taken down long ago.
The idea of having discounts on every individual title and series you own in one platform to purchase in the competing platform would get complicated very quickly because a user's library is dynamic, not static. Figuring discounts on hundreds, if not thousands, of titles for each potential new user would be an administrative challenge on the part of our sales team. That is, it would take considerable time, with not a lot of return. Accordance created targeted deals for BibleWorks users (after BW announced they were closing) only because BibleWorks was mostly a fixed package of titles, and it was easier to create a fixed Collection of approximate content.
And, of course, Logos was able to transfer libraries of WordSearch users because they bought the company—which was a healthy platform with lots of users and a good investment for Logos.
I know all of this can be frustrating as we've seen some of these platforms fold over the years (BibleWorks, Quickverse, etc.), this often results in needing to purchase titles again. If misery loves company, I've done it myself. I've been on all these platforms over the years. I have some titles that have been duplicated in Logos, Accordance, BibleWorks, Wordsearch, OliveTree, Kindle, and even print. But my decisions were made because because ultimately, I needed what I needed when I needed it. Even working for Accordance for many years, I still took advantage of Logos sales—both individual titles and base packages, even duplicating a lot of content. Because of the incredibly large catalog available from Logos, years ago, when I still worked for the other guys, I had a personal Logos library larger than everything offered in the entire Accordance catalog. And in hindsight, I'm very glad I did this.
All that to say, I know switching platforms can be both difficult and expensive, but if you're considering switching to Logos (and I hope you will!) I would recommend starting with a Base Package, especially when it is discounted. For the resources not in that package, make a priority list of those titles or series, add them to your wishlist on our site, and keep an eye out for our sales, which often have very generous discounts. These sales change monthly (and we even have daily deals).
The good news is I've been very impressed with the health and vision of Logos since I've been working for the company. I'm no longer buying anything on a competing Bible software platform, and my assumption is Logos is going to be around long after I'm gone from this earth.
Senior Publisher Relations Specialist • Logos Bible Software • Rick.Mansfield@logos.com
3 -
My memory is not good at all. But when I 'came over' from Bibleworks to Accordance, the discount seemed quite significant (enough for me to effectively duplicate Logos resources in Accordance). Of course, BW pricing was rock-bottom.
But I agree, absent FL buying Accordance (unlikely), the move to Logos can be pricey.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
1 -
Thanks for clarifying how the crossover worked at Accordance, I didn't realize that. When BW died, I actually did contact Logos first, letting them know the situation, and to be honest, the person I spoke with sort of blew me off and didn't even attempt to try to convince me why I should duplicate things in Logos. I then called Accordance and was informed of their crossgrade program. Like @DMB , I also remember it as being a significant discount. In fact I know it was. On a side note, I would like to mention that this time when I contacted sales, the guy I spoke to was very friendly and professional, and worked with me to access all the discounts I could personally qualify for. So this gave me the impression that Logos must have changed since the last time I contacted them, and further, I think it really speaks to how when a company offers a discount, it may be expensive on the outset, but it is often well worth it not only in building customers, but promoting customer loyalty.
1 -
I’m sad the Christmas discount is a single use code. Hoping for a new year discount code soon.
0 -
Right. The Accordance discount for BibleWorks users was steep because it was easy to create a couple comparable packages. BibleWorks famously didn't offer things like commentaries or monographs, so it was very easy to work with publishers to come up with something very inexpensive that was the equivalent of a BibleWorks library.
As @Rick Mansfield (Logos) has pointed out, Logos probably won't be able to do the same thing for Accordance users because it would be a nightmare trying to figure out the myriads of possible discount combinations.0 -
BTW, I'm using floating windows in Logos now, and with them I can do everything I used to do with Accordance workspaces (your mileage may vary).
1 -
Hi @Mark Allison,
Thanks for letting me know. Right now I am working really hard to finalize exporting my Accordance notes (I hope to be finished in Feb, I hope…). Then after that I am really going to try to force Logos to work to see if it is possible. I might contact you about floating window questions, if that is ok, as Logos' inability to have multiple layouts open at a time is really the number one reason why I am not sure if the program will be functional (despite the awesome library it has).
One thing I am kind of fuzzy about though, actually two things:
1) How many floating windows can be open at once with one layout?
2) If I save that layout, and then close the program and reopen it, will it reopen the layout WITH all the floating windows open?0 -
- I was able to open 20 floating windows, but I assume I could open more.
- When I quit and restarted Logos, they were all still open in the positions I had left them. Note: In my Logos preferences I set "At Startup Open to" to " Most recent layout-any".
I only have one monitor, so I wasn't able to test whether they opened in the same position on another monitor.
2 -
Hi @Mark Allison ,
That is great to hear!! if I can open 20 floating windows, that sounds very workable, especially if they remain open after closing the windows. Thank you for clarifying this! I understand the floating windows are more limited than a legitimate layout, but this is nonetheless optimistic. Thanks again, and I will for sure start with messing with floating windows as soon as this massive export is done.
0 -
In addition to lots of windows, lots of books can be open, with great performance. I generally keep 150-170 books open all the time, in 6 windows.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
3 -
Hi @DMB,
Just to clarify, you are meaning that you have six floating windows open, and the 150-170 books open are distributed among these floating windows. Is this correct? Are you able to minimize a floating window?
ps - if I try to tag you, there are multiple potential profiles with the same pic, so hopefully I am tagging you correctly.0 -
Yes, you can minimize a floating window.
1 -
@kristin, adding to Mark, I normally keep the windows open, with the main window a little larger so I can quickly get to tools etc just clicking on the main window (on the Mac I use the hot corners).
I also make heavy use of MultiBook panels, where Logos automatically inserts needed volumes (eg keeping my Targums organized).
ps Yes, there's lots of me. I'm not sure which is me! But I watch recent posts.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
2 -
Y’all talking about having 150 books open, and I suddenly now have the motivation to clean up my home office / bedroom! Thank you!
150 books open! Ah! I must destress and clean!
3 -
- I have seven floating windows open, two the complex windows with multiple panes and many tabs, of which I've posted screen shots, and five really simple ones. All close when I close the main window of Logos (of course), and all open when I open my main layout. All windows open as I left them, except any windows that I had snapped to the left side or right side of the screen, using that feature of Windows, show up in their unsnapped size and location. So when I close and reopen Logos it takes a few seconds for me to snap the thus-unsnapped windows back to the side where I want them. I could manually resize them without using Windows' snapping feature (whatever it's called), but I haven't bothered.
- DMB has me beat, but I've got fifty-five tabs, most of which are books, opened across six panes in three windows - not counting five more books each open in its own window. It all takes a bit to open up, but I open Logos only when I've had reason to close it - letting an update install, and restarting Windows are about it. Logos has frozen or crashed on me twice that I recall in the thirteen months since I first started using it.
1 - I have seven floating windows open, two the complex windows with multiple panes and many tabs, of which I've posted screen shots, and five really simple ones. All close when I close the main window of Logos (of course), and all open when I open my main layout. All windows open as I left them, except any windows that I had snapped to the left side or right side of the screen, using that feature of Windows, show up in their unsnapped size and location. So when I close and reopen Logos it takes a few seconds for me to snap the thus-unsnapped windows back to the side where I want them. I could manually resize them without using Windows' snapping feature (whatever it's called), but I haven't bothered.
-
Hi @Thomas Glen Leo ,
Thank you for clarifying this, and also for your prior screenshots. I briefly mentioned it above, but I am intensely working on a note export (which Accordance users know I have been literally working on for years), but I have reason to think I am nearing the end. After that, I am going to spend a week attempting to work exclusively in Logos and just see if it is possible. After understanding the floating windows a little better now, I feel pretty encouraged about it.
1 -
Kristin,
One other note: even with all those books, and tabs, open, actually using Logos - moving around all the windows and tabs, as I do when I'm reading or studying and looking in various tabs for comparisons, study Bibles, commentaries, etc., or reading a book, clicking on cross-references that open or switch to my preferred Bible or some other cited resource, searching, etc., Logos is pretty much instantaneous, except for the well-known bits - e.g., the creation of AI synopses, that I do understand involve background processes.1 -
Logos does keep track of multiple monitors.
The only thing that I think layouts with floating windows is missing is modularity (like updating a personal layout that is sometimes owned with a teaching layout and sometimes with a writing layout). But if you just have one master workspace you always use, it is fine.
Logos is fast enough on my computer that I would never do that, I would just update the teaching layout, switch to what I want to show, and then switch back to the teaching layout. But obviously everybody has their own flow.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
1 -
No need to destress too soon. Don't forget text comparisons … across centuries, ordered by date, and then 5 TCs by language. Multiviews for commentaries ordered by usefulness, main and supplementary, as well as Targums. It 'sounds' like a lot but sits nice and neat until needed. Peaceful-like.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
3 -
Thank you all for sharing how you use floating windows. I knew floating windows were a thing, but had rarely made use of them. Meanwhile, I kept struggling to find a smooth way to transition from my devotions layout to my classroom layout to my lesson prep layout each morning. Opening and closing layouts takes only seconds, but after opening my classroom layout, I would hesitate to return to my devotions layout to record a thought, or to take a few minutes to glance over my lesson prep layout before the day, because those extra few seconds are valuable in the morning. After reading of how you all use floating windows, I created a new layout that has each of my constantly-used layouts in floating windows…I can simply move between them at will. So very cool. 😊
4 -
Thanks for the extensive response. I would agree with your last comment about Logos and that is why I plan to buy a package soon or go the subscription route
0 -
Seems like a fantastic time for FL to set up an e-mail with a link to one of those 'tutorial' pages with pictures, animations and small videos. All about 'floating windows' and layouts. Would appreciate all the insights here distilled by Logos experts on one page.
1 -
@Rick Mansfield (Logos) Floating windows in Logos appear to be very similar to Workspaces in Accordance. I think former Accordance users would really appreciate learning how these work.
4 -
Edit: wrong click & can't delete the empty post /edit
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
Not exactly alike, but probably workable for those who want to do it. I have NT, OT, Patristic, etc. workspaces in Accordance that I can open and close at any time, in any order, and any combination and duplicated number. A HUGE floating windows "workspace" in Logos could encompass all of my Accordance "workspaces," but would not be as easy and nice as choosing which portion, and when, one would want to open and close various portions to stay focused. Nice to know the possible workaround, even so.
3 -
I made a suggestion you can vote for
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
1 -
Hi @Justin Gatlin,
I think you are for sure correct that there needs to be options, but your two options of "clear workspace and open layout" or "open this layout in a floating window" both ultimately leave the user with only one fundamental layout open. While I am gathering that the floating windows are thankfully far more powerful than I realized, the floating windows are still connected to the layout that they are floating in. Yet when I have multiple workspaces open in Accordance, all my workspaces are addressing different topics and it would be disorganized for them to be connected with one floating in another. So I think in addition to the ideas you listed, there really needs to be a third option to simply open another layout without closing or modifying the one which is open.
On a side note, I wasn't really sure if I should make this comment here or on the thread post, so if I should comment something like this there, please let me know.0 -
I don't think I understand. You can have floating windows addressing different topics. And I'm not sure what you mean by "one floating in another." Could you elaborate on that?
0 -
I voted for Justin's suggestion. Basically, it's the same one as at Logos4, and Steve (up in heaven) trying to piece together a workaround (right-clicking a series of favorites into a floating window, etc).
I'm not sure how just any layout can fit into a floating window. In theory, there'd have to be a single window layout. Or the process quickly becomes complicated (since, as Kristin points out, it's still one layout).
And layouts can conflict with each other (eg linking assignments, and so on). Currently Text Comparisons impact each other.
I can understand Kristin's point. The 'main' window does stuff that other windows can't. Which means you're always going back to the main window for this and that. That's why, in my super-layout, the main window has all the tools. And I keep the main window size a smudge larger than the other windows, so I can see it and quickly click on it (no searching for it).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
1 -
It sounds like the solution to your workflow would be for Logos to allow for multiple layouts to be viewed at the same time.
6 -
Kristin, have you tried playing with the floating windows in the free version of Logos? It really is just like having an additional monitor, just stacked on or beneath your current one. The only difference in the main window and the others is that only one has the tookbar that opens guides, documents, etc. Nesting them would not make them connected to each other, assuming that link sets iterate so new ones take unused letters and don't become connected to the letters in your existing layout.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
0 -
Denise, I assume link sets would behave like I suggested above to Kristin. But I didn't think about things like "send links here." I feel like I would expect the original layout to take precedence over the ones you are adding. But I also wouldn't want them to be completely isolated. I would expect to have link sets and send links work across the modules if I wanted them to.
I don't know why floating windows can't have the main toolbar toggled on or off but since I never have more than 4 windows open (2 monitors, 2 windows deep) it has never come up as a concern for me.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
0 -
Like 'u'? My big layout uses up the links.
As complicated as layouts are now, I have my doubts (smiling).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
I accidentally hit post too soon and then edited it. But you caught me before I finished!
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
0 -
What you describe (having to re-work links) is pretty much the problem with the right-click favorites work around (or for that matter, right-click library selections). Setting the links each time. But I might be over-thinking-ish.
Not being negative, but the possible complexity, and once-every-few-years discussion doesn't sound too favorable to the feature.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Hi @Mark Allison, regarding your comment, “I don't think I understand. You can have floating windows addressing different topics. And I'm not sure what you mean by "one floating in another." Could you elaborate on that?” It is in part what @DMB clarified saying “The 'main' window does stuff that other windows can't. Which means you're always going back to the main window for this and that.” Additionally though, I often have multiple very unrelated Accordance Workspaces open at the same time. Not only does Logos require all the floating windows to be attached to a layout, but having all the floating windows connected to one layout would put fundamentally unrelated topics together.
As a simple example, if I want my Mark class Workspace (which I use with students) and my Ugaritic Workspace open (which I do not use with students), to see one on one side of my screen, and one on the other, in Logos these unrelated topics HAVE to be connected, with my Mark layout as a floating window in my Ugaritic layout, or visa versa. I truly don’t want these to layouts connected in anyway, but I need them to both be open. (As everyone knows by now, I normally have multiple Accordance workspaces open at the same time, all of which are intended to be segregated, since if they were intended to be connected, obviously I would just have them as tabs or independent sections of one Workspace, which can easily be done in Accordance.)
Like you said, “It sounds like the solution to your workflow would be for Logos to allow for multiple layouts to be viewed at the same time.” I think this is the only true solution.@Justin Gatlin, when you said “Kristin, have you tried playing with the floating windows in the free version of Logos? It really is just like having an additional monitor, just stacked on or beneath your current one. The only difference in the main window and the others is that only one has the tookbar that opens guides, documents, etc. Nesting them would not make them connected to each other, assuming that link sets iterate so new ones take unused letters and don't become connected to the letters in your existing layout.” Going back to my Ugaritic layout and Mark layout example, if I open one of these as a layout, and then open the other as a floating window, the other topic is now inherently connected being one layout. (On a side note, I am not on the free version, I have the full-fledged v.10 version which I bought specifically to make sure I could buy it before subscriptions came with the next version, as I really dislike subscriptions, enough to prevent me from using something with subscriptions).
1 -
@Kristin A temporary solution might be to add keyboard shortcuts to your layouts so that you can quickly cycle between them. It's what I do.
0 -
Hi @Mark Allison ,
Could you clarify this? Your comment makes it sound like Stage Manager on Mac where all the layouts are actually open, but in reality in Logos, the multiple layouts are all closed, and the only one which is open at a time is the on you are actively looking at. Correct?
Also, I have class soon, but really quickly, is there a way to view more than one layout at a time in the actual program? Is there a way to have my Mark layout and Ugaritic layout open at the same time with this key combination?0 -
No, you can't view them at the same time. You have to toggle between them with a keyboard shortcut. Not ideal, but probably the best you'll be able to do until Logos allows multiple layouts to be displayed simultaneously (I'm making that a feature request now).
https://community.logos.com/discussion/244753/feature-request-allow-for-simultaneous-display-of-multiple-layouts/p1?new=11 -
Hi @Mark Allison ,
Thank you for adding that as a feature request!! For sure needed, and the number one reason why I can't leave Accordance.
Btw, on the old forum it would show the people who had voted. When I went to your link I saw two people had voted, but with the new forum the votes on polls are anonymous. Is that correct?
1
