a question from an Accordance User
Comments
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Kristin said:
Also, do you, or anyone, have any clarity about how Logos is connected to Logos online? I understand it needs to connect to the server to check for updates, but is that all it's doing? It is making me nervous how often that little wheel spins.
It is synchronising your user documents with the backup on the Server (and vice-versa if you have multiple installations) as well as checking for resource and software updates.
Logos will also send feedback on your use of the software. You can go to Tools > Program Settings and chose an option from "Send Feedback".
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Aaron Hamilton said:
No worries; it takes some getting used to. However, with your level of interest you'll be an expert in no time. Perhaps you should hit the arrow in the bottom left corner of the screen to expand the left menu.
Hi Aaron,
Thank you for your screenshot.
I had been looking for a search button on the actual concordance window and had seen that panel as disconnected from it. I just tried it like your screenshot and it worked. Jonathan Huber said:Try searching directly in a Bible tab. Open the inline search (Cmd + Shift + F), do your search, and then share the results (via the button that looks like an up arrow over a wide U) to a passage document. The whole process is pretty quick and gives you a list similar to a concordance.
Thank you for the idea, Jonathan. The more I play around with Logos, the more I feel like it really isn't Accordance, and there are certain things about Accordance I just like (like the layout of the Accordance concordance). However, I can see that Logos also has it's strengths, and which version of concordance someone finds better would be dependent on their specific workflow.
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Dave Hooton said:
It is synchronising your user documents with the backup on the Server
Hi Dave,
Do you mind clarifying what you mea by "user documents"?
Also, looking at the Program Settings, right next to it was something about user ratings, which reminded me about a question I had asked in that post that got quarantined. So I guess I'll ask it here. The rating system has truly confused me for a few reasons. First, a lot of the resources come already rated. Who is rating them? If I rate something, does that stay on my computer, or am I contributing to some sort of community rate? Also, the concept is sort of confusing to me, as different resources would have a higher or lower rating based on what specific task I am doing.
Thanks for any clarity you are able to provide.0 -
Kristin said:
. Second, in lieu of the resource she used, I decided to search my ESV, but there is literally no way to search for anything, and "command F" is not even mentioned.
You do not have the Concordance tool if using the Free version, so the screenshot is a Help screen. You have to scroll to find words in this tool, but the results are in list format. A Bible Search, however will allow you to save the results in a Passage List.
CTRL+F (Windows) is a basic text Search available to any book. Type in the box and it will highlight the result in the book without any formatting.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Kristin said:
Do you mind clarifying what you mea by "user documents"?
These are created via the Documents menu in the app toolbar (top or left side) when you select New.
Kristin said:Also, looking at the Program Settings, right next to it was something about user ratings, which reminded me about a question I had asked in that post that got quarantined. So I guess I'll ask it here. The rating system has truly confused me for a few reasons. First, a lot of the resources come already rated. Who is rating them? If I rate something, does that stay on my computer,
Books can be rated on the product page. But they come to you as unrated (check the Rating column in Library), and you can rate/use them as described in this wiki article. This data is sync'd to the server and Show Community Ratings = Yes (in Settings) will show the average value from all users on hover in the book's Information page.
I suggest you use the TOC Wiki article to get information/Help for all features in the Logos app.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Aaron Hamilton said:
No worries; it takes some getting used to. However, with your level of interest you'll be an expert in no time. Perhaps you should hit the arrow in the bottom left corner of the screen to expand the left menu. Having words to describe the icons may be easier until you are more familiar with the software. The easiest way to do a search is by utilizing the search tool. I have highlighted this tool in the screenshot below.
Logos is a very powerful Swiss Army knife. I have used it since Series X and I still learn new things about it all the time. Just last week I was watching a video clip on building a Morphological search and I discovered something I had never known before. It is a lot of fun if you like roaming around in original languages and research! 😎
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Dave Hooton said:
I suggest you use the TOC Wiki article to get information/Help for all features in the Logos app.
Hi Dave,
Thank you for the clarification you provided in the last few posts, and also for this TOC article link. I will be sure to take a look at it. [:)]
Donovan R. Palmer said:It is a lot of fun if you like roaming around in original languages and research! 😎
Original languages and research are my favorite things!! [:)]
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Mark Allison said:
And the advantage to performing a Bible search is that you can add versions.
In the Logos world Bible search in effect makes the concept of a concordance obsolete. In Mark’s search above you can view analysis and export your passage lists. I am not a big user of the Logos ‘concordance tool’ but others on here have use cases which make it more suitable for them.
Another thing that is sort of obsolete is Strong’s numbers. You can still use and search on them, but the tagging in Logos is more powerful.
If you enjoy experimenting and ideating ways to use the tools to engage the text, it can create hours of entertainment for sure!
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Mark Allison said:
And the advantage to performing a Bible search is that you can add versions.
Mark,
How did you do this? I understand how to add another version, and also how to link, but not how to get the search in both. Did you run the search twice to get it on each version?
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
Another thing that is sort of obsolete is Strong’s numbers. You can still use and search on them, but the tagging in Logos is more powerful.
That is a weird thought. Somewhat of a mindwarp.
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Kristin, are you using the free version, or did you purchase a feature set (if so, which version did you purchase?)? Your Logos experience will vary greatly depending on which features you have access to. Searching in multiple Bible versions is available to me within the search tool, using the Bible search. This may not be possible in the free version.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Kristin, are you using the free version, or did you purchase a feature set (if so, which version did you purchase?)? Your Logos experience will vary greatly depending on which features you have access to. Searching in multiple Bible versions is available to me within the search tool, using the Bible search. This may not be possible in the free version.
Hi Aaron,
I am still messing around in the free version. Though I don't think I will ever be able to get a true impression of Logos one way or the other until I buy original languages, I want to try to get a better grip of the software before I do anything further.
That said, apparently it is available in the free version. I'm just not used to the "search" function, as it is significantly different from Accordance. However, once I opened it I found the option to search "all open bibles," and it in fact did find the word I searched for in all the Bible versions I had open. So that was interesting. Thank you for explaining that.
Aaron Hamilton said:Your Logos experience will vary greatly depending on which features you have access to.
Someone explained this to me before, but I am still a little confused. The "features" are dependent on the level of the package, is that correct? So using the "Academic" package as an example, how many features you have would be dependent on if you have the "silver" or "bronze," or whatever. Is that correct, or are the features referring to something else?
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Kristin said:
So using the "Academic" package as an example, how many features you have would be dependent on if you have the "silver" or "bronze," or whatever. Is that correct, or are the features referring to something else?
That is correct - you might find the information at https://www.logos.com/compare/featuresets/Logos%20Feature%20Sets helpful as it shows which features are available in which feature set.
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Kristin said:
How did you do this?
I just clicked on the "Add versions" button. But as has been mentioned, perhaps that's not available in the free version. Accordance has limitations in its free version too.
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Perhaps my favorite search view is the "Grid" view. Check this out!
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Dave Hooton said:
Apart from the Academic 30%, there will be discounts on Logos 10 packages near Fall, in anticipation of the new subscription "official" release (probably higher than 25%). So take advantage of Academic discounts if that appeals, and then wait if you value ownership.
I own some books, but have just figured out my path into getting my Logos updated. I plan on buying Feature sets so I don't end up with a bunch of books I don't need. It is like buying the program without all the fluff of books I don't want or will not use. And then buying the books specifically I want, and will use. Only took me a couple of weeks to figure that out. [:)]
Dave, This is exactly my question and concern... buy before the Logos 11 release in the fall, or after? My understanding is Logos 11 is tentatively supposed to release October 2024. I have been bit by that in other things. I ignorantly bought before a release, only to find I was holding an old product, and had to give more money for what had just been released. In this case it was hardware, not software, but I'm sure I have had the same experience with software in the past too.
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Dave Hooton said:
Apart from the Academic 30%, there will be discounts on Logos 10 packages near Fall, in anticipation of the new subscription "official" release (probably higher than 25%). So take advantage of Academic discounts if that appeals, and then wait if you value ownership.
Do you mind clarifying the "value ownership" comment? It sounds like if you buy it in the fall, the official release is just a subscription (like renting the program) and not actually owning it. Then if you wait a certain amount of time you can buy it without a subscription, but you forfeit the discount?
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Mark Allison said:
just clicked on the "Add versions" button. But as has been mentioned, perhaps that's not available in the free version. Accordance has limitations in its free version too.
Hi Mark,
Oh, ok. Thank you for clarifying. Ya, you are correct that that button is missing in the free version. I don't blame Logos at all for limiting features in the free version, but at the same time, for someone using the free version in order to judge functionality and if it would be worth investing anything, it sort of obscures the results. Also, to be clear, if I bought anything, even if I bought one book, would it unlock (or more accurately, show), all the features? I am thinking not, as I keep hearing about gradients in features, which are based on silver, bronze, etc. I think.
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Mark Allison said:
Perhaps my favorite search view is the "Grid" view. Check this out!
I like the grid too! Thanks for the screenshot, as you are correct it obviously isn't in the free version.
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Mark Allison said:
Perhaps my favorite search view is the "Grid" view. Check this out!
I like the grid too! Thanks for the screenshot, as you are correct it obviously isn't in the free version.
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Kristin said:
if I bought anything, even if I bought one book, would it unlock (or more accurately, show), all the features?
No, Logos is very different from Accordance when it comes to features. With Accordance, even if you bought the cheapest package they offer, you'd get all the features. With Logos, most of the features are extra. In fact, in October, Logos will make most of the features available through a subscription service. You'll always own the books you buy in Logos, but what you can do with them changes pretty drastically based on the features you have.
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Uncoupling features (subscription) from books (own) makes a lot of sense to me In terms of supporting ongoing development.
Kristin- if you look at logos.com/features, each is marked to indicate which current package level it’s included with.
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Kristin said:
if I bought anything, even if I bought one book, would it unlock (or more accurately, show), all the features? I am thinking not, as I keep hearing about gradients in features, which are based on silver, bronze, etc. I think.
Purchasing resources does not automatically add any additional features to your account. At the moment features are bundled with resources in the Logos 10 library packages. This will change in the Fall, when Logos moves to subscription for features. Features can also be purchased independently from the Logos 10 library packages by purchasing a feature package. All products come with a 30-day money back guarantee. Thus, you could purchase the full feature set to try Logos for 30 days and return within the return window to get the entire balance returned to your account. I would agree that with the free version it is not possible to get an accurate impression of what is possible with Logos. It is nice that Logos does offer a free version. I believe that the reading and basic study of the Bible should be free of charge, and the free version makes this possible. However, it is understandable that in order to finance more advanced features, payment is required.
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Yes, my response probably came out sounding more negative than I intended it too. There are also some features you have to pay for in Accordance (cross-highlighting in the LXX requires the MT/LXX database, for example). Accordance used to release updates with amazing new features every few months. Now they can't even deliver features they promised two years ago. Meanwhile, Logos has exponentially more features than Accordance, with more being added all the time. Frankly, I think Logos' model is more sustainable over time.Jonathan Huber said:Uncoupling features (subscription) from books (own) makes a lot of sense to me In terms of supporting ongoing development.
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Mark Allison said:
No, Logos is very different from Accordance when it comes to features. With Accordance, even if you bought the cheapest package they offer, you'd get all the features. With Logos, most of the features are extra.
To be honest, part of why I have found the "features" so confusing, is in part because some of the features seem like just features, and some seem like basic functionality (like adding a parallel like your screenshot above, which also got flagged for moderation because I accidentally clicked "post" twice). The other reason I find it confusing is because I have yet to find a pure list of features. They seem to be viewable when comparing packages, but then when you click "compare features" one of the "features" is a random Bible, which seems like a resource. Then also, one of subsets is "features." So are the "features" everything under "compare features" or only under the subset of "features"? It is just confusing. From what I can gather though, it seems like it can get pretty expensive to build a Logos program (resources, features, whatever), unless someone goes about it carefully.
Mark Allison said:In fact, in October, Logos will make most of the features available through a subscription service
That's disturbing. If someone already owned that feature, they will still own it, correct? I would hope it is only new people who would have to do this subscription stuff. (I hate subscriptions and would likely prevent me from investing in Logos, to be frank). Is there a list of the features which will be going "subscription only"?
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Mark Allison said:
Frankly, I think Logos' model is more sustainable over time.
Yep, agreed. You didn't sound negative; I was just chiming in. It's a different model than Accordance, but that doesn't mean it's bad. The sustainability of the platform (in contrast to... others) is one of the reasons I'm here.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
At the moment features are bundled with resources in the Logos 10 library packages. This will change in the Fall, when Logos moves to subscription for features. Features can also be purchased independently from the Logos 10 library packages by purchasing a feature package.
Hi Aaron,
If I am understanding correctly, v.10 comes with features not on a subscription, but with v.11, features are on a subscription. Thus, people who have v.10 don't need to pay a subscription, but they will start needing to if they upgrade to v.11. Is this correct? Likewise, can you buy v.10 with the features not on a subscription even after v.11 comes out?
Aaron Hamilton said:All products come with a 30-day money back guarantee. Thus, you could purchase the full feature set to try Logos for 30 days and return within the return window to get the entire balance returned to your account. I would agree that with the free version it is not possible to get an accurate impression of what is possible with Logos.
That is a good idea. To do that, that would be the "Academic Silver" to get all the features. Is that correct? (Since I know my package family is "Academic" already).
Aaron Hamilton said:It is nice that Logos does offer a free version. I believe that the reading and basic study of the Bible should be free of charge, and the free version makes this possible.
I agree completely.
I have really appreciated how much Logos gives for free. It is not sufficient for anything on an academic level, but for sure helpful for someone just wanting to study the Bible.0 -
Jonathan Huber said:
Kristin- if you look at logos.com/features, each is marked to indicate which current package level it’s included with.
Hi Jonathan,
Thank you for the link! That is helpful. This is a really ignorant question, but on t hat page it lists little squares to represent each level, but the square colors aren't listed. Is there a color key somewhere I am missing?
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Kristin said:
Is there a list of the features which will be going "subscription only"?
New ones. If you own the full feature set from v10, you keep them all. Switching to a subscription model for feature development is a way to support ongoing software development. It's a great move. Trying to cut costs is what got Accordance into the mess they're in. Good software is worth paying for.
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Kristin said:
on that page it lists little squares to represent each level, but the square colors aren't listed
Same colors as the packages. They go in order of increasing cost from left to right: green is starter, orange is bronze, gray is silver, gold is gold. Gold level includes the full feature set, so everything else to the right of that has the same.
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