FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
-
It would be helpful for me if I could press [1] shift+esc (or somesuch) to hide the secondary menu of the current book and [2] ctrl+esc (or somesuch) to close all secondary menus in all tabs. I am wearing out my mouse to continually hide these distracting, screen-hogging structures.
0 -
I would think it fantastic if the hide status of the toolbar were remembered. The status would be updated every time I open or close the secondary menu (regardless of which panel I currently have open). If my last action were to be minimizing the secondary menu, then the next panel I open would open with a minimized menu. Furthermore, the current status would save along with the layout.
3 -
The latest version of the resource panel is working for me.
When on my large external monitor there is sufficient space to display both primary and secondary toolbars, and the "New" button is relatively small (which is good) but shaded blue to differentiate it from the normal functional buttons — works for me. The icon immediately to the right of the "New" icon/button is a handy one-click way to hide the secondary resource toolbar when I'm using my laptop's screen with less space. Recommend when hovering over this icon text such as "Click to display/hide the Secondary Resource Toolbar" be displayed. Currently when I hover over the icon nothing comes up.
Overall I find this implementation effective.
0 -
I, too, have wished for a remembered status. Anything, or combination of things, would be welcome to reduce screen-hogging, distraction, and continual time-wasting (due to mouseketeering). That is why my ideal would be a standard menu in one place that controls whatever book has focus - along with your remembered-status suggestions.
1 -
I will say, though I never tested it on an external monitor - that I could see that being helpful for the footprint issue… Though still the need for too many clicks for simple functions.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
Here is how much real estate the distracting, screen-hogging toolbars take up on one of my 3 monitors. When you add the other 2 monitors, it is even worse.
The top overlay includes all the toolbars - primary and secondary.
The bottom overlay is the secondary toolbars - which appear every time I open a book or relaunch Logos. 😠 (It is like an incessant irritant.)
I really do not appreciate this significant amount of screen real estate being lost for something I use just a few moments per day. I have taken to using full screen mode a lot more than I did before in an effort to escape the Attack of the Toolbars. 💣
0 -
oops. Here is the image
0 -
In thinking about this a bit more, I think that creating an option to auto-hide the secondary toolbar may potentially be the easiest and most efficient way to solve this problem.
With this setting enabled, one would also not have need for the arrow that raises and lowers the secondary toolbar, as hovering over or clicking on the primary toolbar would likely do the job better. This would clean up the menu even more.
It seems like a very appealing setting to have as an option, especially as one grows familiar enough with the secondary toolbar so as not to need the constant visual cues.
0 -
During a webinar yesterday about version 38, @Mark Barnes answered a Q&A question I posted about this. If I understood him correctly, he said closing all the open secondary toolbars in 1 operation was not doable. I don't know if that has a bearing on your suggestions. But I agree with you. I would definitely vote for such a proposal.
The way the secondary toolbars show up by default makes me think developers expect users to be accessing the toolbars quite often. Most of my interaction is to turn off the secondary toolbars - it is my daily whack-a-mole exercise.
0 -
I Like the new feature. I was one of the users of WordSearch Bible that was moved over to Logo's when WordSearch closed shop. The GUI interface for WordSearch, for those who are not familiar. looks a lot like ESword. I used WordSearch for years. Getting use to Logo's interface has been very trying for me. This new feature is helping greatly.
0 -
I'm glad that you are finding it easier to navigate - "trying" navigation can indeed bog down the use of the product.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
Auto hiding the secondary could be beneficial - I guess for me, that is one aspect that didn't bother me as much as it does some - considering we had to close the secondary on the Classic Toolbar as well.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
I used the Greek/Hebrew Interlinear all the time. One-click was so convenient. Now it is three. I am curious if others use that feature more and would like the ability to lock it on the toolbar or at least have it more convenient. 3 steps on and 3 steps off is not convenient
2 -
A decade ± ago I participated in a beta test for a program I had long enjoyed. But the interface had changed in such a way that I began to dread launching it. I procrastinated launching the program; I fussed and fidgeted while in the app. The emotional oppression I felt, and the lack of developer responsiveness, finally led me to abandon the app.
I am starting to have similar, though much milder, feelings about Logos because of the toolbars. The screen-hogging secondary toolbar is continually visible whenever I open a book or relaunch Logos. I keep muttering, "Please! Make it stop!" when I see the uninvited secondary toolbars staring at me - taunting me to mouse around the screen closing them.
Back in L4 days I stopped using Logos because it seemed to be a huge memory hog. My increasingly desperate plea to Logos developers now is: Please give me an option to make the oppressive toolbars stop!
1 -
Logos team,
I selected a subscription and upgraded from L10 in the last week, having used Logos heavily since L4. I apologize for not reading all the comments here before posting, but there are twenty-five pages as of this post. Instead, this is just another users personal feedback with (1) encouragement, (2) frustrations, and (3) a bonus idea.
Concessions and Encouragement
I concede that this dramatic shift in the Resource Toolbar ought to improve a new users ability to find and make use of various features. Text is easier to navigate than unknown icons. In this limited sense (focused on new or unfamiliar users), I think the update may benefit them. I can see the amount of work and attention to these details that y'all have put into this, and I appreciate the goals.
Frustrations and Possible Solutions
My initial experience has not been simple, clear, or quick. Some of this is learning curve, since I have been habituated into a Resource Toolbar schema that is about a decade old (with minor changes along the way). Here are a few pain points which other users may have mentioned, but so as to contribute to the application's improvement I'll also offer potential solutions I could envision:
- The expanded toolbar takes up too much space. While it appears that individual tabs remember the minimized state of the bar, I can find no way to globally default the new Resource Toolbar to collapsed—which I would love to do.
- [Potential Solution] Provide a Program Setting for the Default state of the Resource Toolbar: Collapsed, Expanded, or Inherit from Previous.
- Toggle items are buried. I make regular use of Multiple Resource View which I used to be able to toggle on/off by clicking the icon. Now, I have to uncollapse the bar by clicking View, then click on Add Parallel Text, and then click the toggle switch to accomplish the same action. This experience is similar for many other features which have toggles inside of their flyout pane.
- [Potential Solution 1] One potential solution would be a dynamic slot on the main bar called Recents: "Home, Recents, Search, Notes, &c." This Recents slot when expanded would show all Enabled features like Visual Filters, Interlinear, Multiple Resource View, &c—allowing a one-place access to features the current user is actually using.
- [Potential Solution 2] A different and complimentary improvement would be to make the buttons, which have toggles in their flyout panes, split buttons like the previous ones were. In this scenario, clicking the wording of the button would toggle the feature, and clicking the down arrow would expand the flyout. This would reduce the number of clicks by one (or 33%).
Another Idea
This brings me my final thought. What if there was a Program Setting for the Resource Toolbar type, where the user could choose (a) Descriptive or (b) Minimalist. Descriptive is the new toolbar with all the text. Minimalist is the previous toolbar with the icons and leaner design. Each would have their own learning curve, and Logos could even ship with the Descriptive enabled, but long-time users of Logos would then have a way to revert back to the Resource Toolbar they have already learned and (in my case) loved.
Conclusion
Thank you all for considering these ideas and being willing to interact with users to create a great experience and maintain the functionality we've all come to enjoy.
-David
2 - The expanded toolbar takes up too much space. While it appears that individual tabs remember the minimized state of the bar, I can find no way to globally default the new Resource Toolbar to collapsed—which I would love to do.
-
In respect to your "Another Idea" - some of us have been begging and pleading for a toolbar option…
I was recently informed by a member of the Logos team that due to the cost of maintaining both toolbars, they are going to force the Dynamic Toolbar on every user. No longer will a user be able to avoid it by not subscribing, seems like the only way to avoid it will be locking yourself to Logos Version 36 and never updating.
I would hope they would reconsider, but last I heard it does not sound like it.... No matter how unpopular they will eventually force it on everyone....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
The keyboard shortcut Ctrl-I in Windows turns the Interlinear toggle on and off. (I'm not sure of the corresponding keys in MacOS.)
Such shortcuts appear to be the workaround for the toolbar's shortcomings.
0 -
David,
The Multiple Resource View toggle can be switched on and off with the keyboard shortcut Ctrl-Shift-M in Windows (not sure of the key combination in MacOS).
Such shortcuts appear to be the workaround for the toolbar's shortcomings.
0 -
The keyboard shortcut Ctrl-I in Windows turns the Interlinear toggle on and off
Is there a keyboard shortcut for the Reverse Interlinear ribbon?
0 -
If you are referencing the Reverse Interlinear Pane - CTRL - SHIFT - R
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
Ctrl+Shift+R but it works kind of haphazardly here - maybe a hotkey conflict with another app? I wish the 2 interlinear hotkeys were more similar - like both being Ctrl+Shift — but Ctrl+Shift+I and Ctrl+R are both already spoken for.
0 -
This is one of the problems of setting up keyboard shortcuts to fix the efficiency issues with the new toolbar - conflicts and the need to memorize hotkeys for simple one or two click functions….. Still wonder how they think that a simple menu that a users just needs to learn visual icon representation is difficult - but forcing users to memorize hot keys is somehow easy…..
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
These issues are why I think Logos would benefit by something like the brilliant solution developed by Freeplane and, to a lesser degree, Libreoffice - Command Search. (See my post in this thread.)
1 -
While I can appreciate the desire to organize the commands and be more clear, in practice I must admit I'm spending more time. The one-click buttons to do things like interlinear on/off, parallel texts, page view, notes and highlights are particularly missed. The menus are proving cumbersome. Can we have the option to bring back the buttons please?
2 -
Welcome to the Forums @Chad Leman - a number of users have been asking for the option...
Sadly, unless something changes - according to a conversation I had with a member of the Logos team, the new toolbar will eventually be forced on all users regardless of subscription status.
All we can do is continue to express our disappointment with the feature and our desire to not force it on us.
Some of us may not longer make purchases if they do force it on us
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
What is this said activist group? I would love to be part of it!0 -
I don't mind the new resource toolbar, but a few things I wish it did better.
- I am used to the "Contents" always being available as the leftmost icon, so I can quickly toggle the contents on and off.
- Now, with the new toolbar, if I switch to the view menu and then change to columns, etc. I lose my "contents". I have to click again on the "Home" to bring back the "Contents" in the leftmost position.
- I wish the "Contents" were persistent in that location and just to the right of that icon, the context sensitive menu options based on the view I click above.
- Now, with the new toolbar, if I switch to the view menu and then change to columns, etc. I lose my "contents". I have to click again on the "Home" to bring back the "Contents" in the leftmost position.
- I find myself going to the "View" a lot, to adjust the size of the font with the "Zoom", make into columns, etc.
- One suggestion I would prefer, when I go to make columns of the text, right now, I have to first toggle "Paged View" using the slider. Then select the number of columns, etc.
- I would prefer when I went dropped down the Paged View option, I could click directly on the number of columns, and have it toggle the paged view on. Then the only time I would have to click on the slider is if I wanted to turn it off. It would save me a step.
- currently, the numbers are grayed out until I slide Paged View on.
- Of course, I'm now using Shift-Command-P, which toggles it on and off, but from a UI design viewpoint, that was a point of frustration for me early on with the new toolbar
- currently, the numbers are grayed out until I slide Paged View on.
Those are my first impressions. I'll keep playing with it and post more feedback if this is helpful.
Eric
0 - I am used to the "Contents" always being available as the leftmost icon, so I can quickly toggle the contents on and off.
-
Eric,
At the risk of being redundant, Ctrl-Shift-C in Windows turns the Table of Contents on and off in Logos (not sure of the key command in MacOS).
Key commands rather than icons are frustrating, but this is the (artificial) world Logos has created for us to live in.
1 -
» Key commands rather than icons are frustrating «
Mo Proctor used to sell a mouse pad with all the important keyboard shortcuts…I'd love to have an updated one with the new stuff. (I wore my original, about L4, completely slick…unreadable, LOL.)
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
0 -
I dont use keyboard shortcuts. I have to much going on in life to remember all these, and just need the regular toolbar back, I don't see any point on this thread anyways because they are going to force this on us no matter what we do.
0
