FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop

Personally I don't like it. I also don't like how you change these every 2 years.. like seriously.. My biggest issue is when I paid over $250 for MPSEMINARS training videos back in logos 8 and I cant even follow along if I want to refresh up on something because everything is completely different. To be completely honest, I think you do it on purpose as a cash grab, since you sell an entire Catholic platform that is clearly heretical, you are not a Christian company. I've been saying this for years, unfortunately Accordance looks like windows 98 or id make the move.

Another thing I don't like is how you forced us into a subscription model with literally 1 month to buy L10 for the feature set, right before Christmas .

Not a big fan of the changes, will take awhile to get used to after years on the old style.

I don't like that I have to use a pull-down, then turn on/off the interlinear vs just clicking it on/off, room for improvement.

I am also experiencing less control on scrolling in the Bibles, seems jumpy, can't move just a verse. Using a Mac Pro M2 Max processor. Is there a setting somewhere to adjust ?

I'm glad it is improving for you @Jack Caviness - maybe one day they will improve it enough for everyone to find the same experience without having to change their workflow to avoid its shortcomings.

Welcome to the Forums @Casey Wright - this is a question many have asked and I am not sure that we ever received a detailed reason for the inefficient aspects of the Dynamic Toolbar…. I think there may have been some reasoning talked about "making Logos easier" for new users - though I am not sure that was ever made known to be the "official" reason. Also not sure that said users would all find it "easier" it they had experience with the Classic Toolbar

Well….. A recent conversation has me a little more concerned about this Feature.

It is sounding like the "Subscription only Feature" of the Dynamic Toolbar may be forced onto us non-subscribers eventually as well - due to the maintenance costs (which has been mentioned and is understanding).

So now I have to test an old Logos on Linux trick we needed when application updates were a problem, but we wanted to still be able to download our books that we purchase. The installer wouldn't work on earlier versions of Windows, so we set the exe to an earlier version in Compatibility mode to block the program updates. (One of those Libronix features I still miss - why can't we select what we want to update and what we don't want updated.)

Hopefully this work around will work - so if the Dynamic Toolbar is forced on everyone and is not improved for efficiency and not forcing some of us to change our layouts for efficiency - I can hopefully stay on V36 and maybe grab a resource or two if needed. If the work around doesn't work and the toolbar is not improved, I guess internet off, which means no downloads of new books will be my only option… Hopefully it is improved (and that is not by forcing the use of keyboard shortcuts)

I absolutely do not like the changes that are being made. My Bible resources are constantly being "reformatted" with chapter and verse taken out. This adds more work for me to change that setting every time I open a tab.

And to think.... Even those of us not subscribing to avoid the Dynamic Toolbar will possibly be forced into using it... Hopefully they fix it, though I'm not sold on them doing so...

Maybe forcing it on all users is a plan to get more subscribers... Maybe users like myself should have kept my comments about not giving the LFL a chance due to the Dynamic Toolbar.... FORCING it on us eliminating the one excuse for not subscribing...

If forcing such an undesirable tool to many in them is what Logos feels is showing care for their customers.... Well, never mind - it's the New Era

I am a logos Max sub'r and I HATE the new tool bar, I cant even follow along with training videos. GIVE US THE OPTION TO CHANGE IT AS SUB'rs why do you have to make life so difficult? Why can't we just have the option to change it like the top panel being moved to the side ?

Please remove the bright blue “new” tab as it is too bright and is distracting to my eyes when I read. Also, please provide a way to turn off the dynamic toolbar for users who are used to the older toolbar with symbols, which offered a much cleaner interface.

It would be helpful for me if I could press [1] shift+esc (or somesuch) to hide the secondary menu of the current book and [2] ctrl+esc (or somesuch) to close all secondary menus in all tabs. I am wearing out my mouse to continually hide these distracting, screen-hogging structures.

The latest version of the resource panel is working for me.

When on my large external monitor there is sufficient space to display both primary and secondary toolbars, and the "New" button is relatively small (which is good) but shaded blue to differentiate it from the normal functional buttons — works for me. The icon immediately to the right of the "New" icon/button is a handy one-click way to hide the secondary resource toolbar when I'm using my laptop's screen with less space. Recommend when hovering over this icon text such as "Click to display/hide the Secondary Resource Toolbar" be displayed. Currently when I hover over the icon nothing comes up.

Overall I find this implementation effective.

I will say, though I never tested it on an external monitor - that I could see that being helpful for the footprint issue… Though still the need for too many clicks for simple functions.

oops. Here is the image

During a webinar yesterday about version 38, @Mark Barnes answered a Q&A question I posted about this. If I understood him correctly, he said closing all the open secondary toolbars in 1 operation was not doable. I don't know if that has a bearing on your suggestions. But I agree with you. I would definitely vote for such a proposal.

The way the secondary toolbars show up by default makes me think developers expect users to be accessing the toolbars quite often. Most of my interaction is to turn off the secondary toolbars - it is my daily whack-a-mole exercise.

I'm glad that you are finding it easier to navigate - "trying" navigation can indeed bog down the use of the product.

I used the Greek/Hebrew Interlinear all the time. One-click was so convenient. Now it is three. I am curious if others use that feature more and would like the ability to lock it on the toolbar or at least have it more convenient. 3 steps on and 3 steps off is not convenient

Logos team,

I selected a subscription and upgraded from L10 in the last week, having used Logos heavily since L4. I apologize for not reading all the comments here before posting, but there are twenty-five pages as of this post. Instead, this is just another users personal feedback with (1) encouragement, (2) frustrations, and (3) a bonus idea.

Concessions and Encouragement

I concede that this dramatic shift in the Resource Toolbar ought to improve a new users ability to find and make use of various features. Text is easier to navigate than unknown icons. In this limited sense (focused on new or unfamiliar users), I think the update may benefit them. I can see the amount of work and attention to these details that y'all have put into this, and I appreciate the goals.

Frustrations and Possible Solutions

My initial experience has not been simple, clear, or quick. Some of this is learning curve, since I have been habituated into a Resource Toolbar schema that is about a decade old (with minor changes along the way). Here are a few pain points which other users may have mentioned, but so as to contribute to the application's improvement I'll also offer potential solutions I could envision:

1. The expanded toolbar takes up too much space. While it appears that individual tabs remember the minimized state of the bar, I can find no way to globally default the new Resource Toolbar to collapsed—which I would love to do.
   1. [Potential Solution] Provide a Program Setting for the Default state of the Resource Toolbar: Collapsed, Expanded, or Inherit from Previous.
2. Toggle items are buried. I make regular use of Multiple Resource View which I used to be able to toggle on/off by clicking the icon. Now, I have to uncollapse the bar by clicking View, then click on Add Parallel Text, and then click the toggle switch to accomplish the same action. This experience is similar for many other features which have toggles inside of their flyout pane.
   1. [Potential Solution 1] One potential solution would be a dynamic slot on the main bar called Recents: "Home, Recents, Search, Notes, &c." This Recents slot when expanded would show all Enabled features like Visual Filters, Interlinear, Multiple Resource View, &c—allowing a one-place access to features the current user is actually using.
   2. [Potential Solution 2] A different and complimentary improvement would be to make the buttons, which have toggles in their flyout panes, split buttons like the previous ones were. In this scenario, clicking the wording of the button would toggle the feature, and clicking the down arrow would expand the flyout. This would reduce the number of clicks by one (or 33%).

Another Idea

This brings me my final thought. What if there was a Program Setting for the Resource Toolbar type, where the user could choose (a) Descriptive or (b) Minimalist. Descriptive is the new toolbar with all the text. Minimalist is the previous toolbar with the icons and leaner design. Each would have their own learning curve, and Logos could even ship with the Descriptive enabled, but long-time users of Logos would then have a way to revert back to the Resource Toolbar they have already learned and (in my case) loved.

Conclusion

Thank you all for considering these ideas and being willing to interact with users to create a great experience and maintain the functionality we've all come to enjoy.

-David

The keyboard shortcut Ctrl-I in Windows turns the Interlinear toggle on and off. (I'm not sure of the corresponding keys in MacOS.)

Such shortcuts appear to be the workaround for the toolbar's shortcomings.

The keyboard shortcut Ctrl-I in Windows turns the Interlinear toggle on and off

Is there a keyboard shortcut for the Reverse Interlinear ribbon?

Ctrl+Shift+R but it works kind of haphazardly here - maybe a hotkey conflict with another app? I wish the 2 interlinear hotkeys were more similar - like both being Ctrl+Shift — but Ctrl+Shift+I and Ctrl+R are both already spoken for.

These issues are why I think Logos would benefit by something like the brilliant solution developed by Freeplane and, to a lesser degree, Libreoffice - Command Search. (See my post in this thread.)

Welcome to the Forums @Chad Leman - a number of users have been asking for the option...

Sadly, unless something changes - according to a conversation I had with a member of the Logos team, the new toolbar will eventually be forced on all users regardless of subscription status.

All we can do is continue to express our disappointment with the feature and our desire to not force it on us.

Some of us may not longer make purchases if they do force it on us

I don't mind the new resource toolbar, but a few things I wish it did better.

1. I am used to the "Contents" always being available as the leftmost icon, so I can quickly toggle the contents on and off.
   1. Now, with the new toolbar, if I switch to the view menu and then change to columns, etc. I lose my "contents". I have to click again on the "Home" to bring back the "Contents" in the leftmost position.
      1. I wish the "Contents" were persistent in that location and just to the right of that icon, the context sensitive menu options based on the view I click above.
2. I find myself going to the "View" a lot, to adjust the size of the font with the "Zoom", make into columns, etc.
   1. One suggestion I would prefer, when I go to make columns of the text, right now, I have to first toggle "Paged View" using the slider. Then select the number of columns, etc.
   2. I would prefer when I went dropped down the Paged View option, I could click directly on the number of columns, and have it toggle the paged view on. Then the only time I would have to click on the slider is if I wanted to turn it off. It would save me a step.
      1. currently, the numbers are grayed out until I slide Paged View on.
         1. Of course, I'm now using Shift-Command-P, which toggles it on and off, but from a UI design viewpoint, that was a point of frustration for me early on with the new toolbar

Those are my first impressions. I'll keep playing with it and post more feedback if this is helpful.

Eric

» Key commands rather than icons are frustrating «

Mo Proctor used to sell a mouse pad with all the important keyboard shortcuts…I'd love to have an updated one with the new stuff. (I wore my original, about L4, completely slick…unreadable, LOL.)