Official: Why did(n't) you get a Logos subscription?
Comments
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After careful consideration I decided to respond to Dave's post. I have no desire to engage in a "back and forth" discussion. I don't believe that is the intent of this discussion. I am however, concerned that perhaps the tone of my post did not come through as I intended. I wasn't, nor am I now, irritated or angry. I was giving my honest opinion which had been solicited.
I realize that there are people who like the idea of faster feature releases through a subscription. That's not my opinion, but that's perfectly fine. I don't begrudge others their opinion just because it's not my own. They've had the option for subscription Logos for some time now. I didn't mean to imply that subscription options shouldn't be available, I just wish the old update options were still available.
If someone doesn't consider $480 (or even $ 360) expensive, then I'm happy for them. That's just not the world I live in.
As far as my being misinformed, that's entirely possible but I don't believe that to be the case. If we were still able to update the same way we used to, then I don't think we would be having this conversation.
I understand that I will still be able to use my purchased resources and they will not be lost. If I implied anything to the contrary I certainly didn't mean to. In fact, that was the point I was attempting to make. I'm very happy that I bought them.
I was not trying to be snarky or disingenuous in any way, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I truly am grateful for Bob and the entire Logos team for what they have created. I'm genuinely appreciative for the library I own. I am also very glad that I own those resources and features and didn't just rent them. I look forward to using them throughout my lifetime. But again, those are just my preferences. I understand that not everyone shares them. But they are well reasoned preferences, not misinformed ones.
My hope is that this explanation will be clarifying for my original post, and will not come across as contentious or argumentative. That is not my intent.
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Bruce Smith said:
I was not trying to be snarky or disingenuous in any way, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I truly am grateful for Bob and the entire Logos team for what they have created. I'm genuinely appreciative for the library I own. I am also very glad that I own those resources and features and didn't just rent them. I look forward to using them throughout my lifetime. But again, those are just my preferences. I understand that not everyone shares them. But they are well reasoned preferences, not misinformed ones.
My hope is that this explanation will be clarifying for my original post, and will not come across as contentious or argumentative. That is not my intent.
Bruce,
Than you for clarifying your position. I did feel you were misinformed, but certainly not contentious nor argumentative.
Bruce Smith said:I have no desire to engage in a "back and forth" discussion
And that was not the intention of my response as I was attempting to be factual had you genuinely been misinformed.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
Yes, I'm a current subscriber. My primary reason is for the updates. I love to stay current about the technology I own, be it smartphone, laptop, T.V., etc. I'm that guy. I'm a tech nerd, so when it comes to studying the Bible I want the best. Logos supplies us with the best. You know that song, "I searched all over, and couldn't find nobody, nobody better, nobody better than YOU." That song is talking about our beloved savior Jesus Christ. Those words I can apply to searching for the best Bible software and I couldn't find none better than LOGOS Bible Software. I was a Wordsearch user until July of 2023. I know, I know Wordsearch was sold to LOGOS during the LOGOS 8 era. I'm am that person who is slow to change. When I did finally use LOGOS 10, I was like "I had this all this time and didn't know. This program is so powerful!!" I was excited with the announcement of the new features I subscribed to the beta version of the next LOGOS software. I loved the new smart search especially. Then the synopsis blew my mind. I use LOGOS to study in the words of THE WORD in the original languages. I used to be Muslim for twenty years of my life and they put emphasis on reading the Quran in Arabic. When I became Christian in 2012, I wanted to study the Bible through it's original language. When I opened LOGOS of the first time that July day in 2023 I knew I entered into another dimension of Bible study. The Bible Word Study feature is more than amazing. It helps me learn Hebrew and Greek. It gives me new insights of a word that could be translated better than what is translated in the Bible version I am studying from. What more can be said about LOGOS? For me it is a beautiful, wonderful, marvelous gift from our Heavenly Father God to me.
To my fellow LOGOS users who have not subscribed yet. I am asking you to at least try the free trial. I know this is another monthly or yearly bill and some of us might be in a bind. I can only suggest when it come to studying the Word of God, we can let something go once a month to add up for the payment of at least $10-$20 a month. Studying the Word of God and showing ourselves approved
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
Is the number one thing to some, if not all of us. I was deceived when I became Muslim, because I had lack of knowledge of the Word of God,
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children." Hosea 4:6 (NKJV)
When I became Christian by reading the Bible, I promised myself I wasn't going to be deceived again. I didn't want to be like our beloved mother Eve when she was deceived by the serpent.
"And the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”" Genesis 3:16 (NKJV)
I study my butt off to not be apart from our beloved Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. God has given us tools to use to understand His Word and He give ideas to innovators like the creators and makers of LOGOS to allows make it easier for us. We live in an era of technology. What worked in 1990 WILL NOT work in 2025 (technology wise). I don't want you, beloved brother and sister, to be left behind in the benefits the LORD God has given us through LOGOS Bible Study Software. If you need to pray about it, pray about it. If you need to research more, research more. If you need to see it for yourself, do that. I will even set up a zoom call between me and you in order for you to see it if you want to see it for yourself. I only want the best for you and what the subscription has for us the study the Word of God, I believe is the best for us and God knows best at the end of it all.
God bless you all my beautiful and loving brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.1 -
Fred Holmes said:
To my fellow LOGOS users who have not subscribed yet....
Fred, this part of your response was not requested, so I ask that you and other users refrain from further comment as this is not a discussion thread.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Bruce Smith said:
If someone doesn't consider $480 (or even $ 360) expensive, then I'm happy for them. That's just not the world I live in.
I would simply like to point out that subscription prices range from $100/year (Premium) to $200/year (Max). Lower prices are available for those who have previously purchased feature packages.
Otherwise, great posts, Bruce. I think you're sharing a valuable perspective.
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Jonathan Bradley said:Dave Hooton said:Bruce Smith said:
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion.
Subscription gives a better glimpse of the future as new features can be introduced more regularly than the bi-annual updates (every two years) of the last decade or so e.g. every 6 weeks with the current schedule.
How do you conclude that subscription is "this expensive"?Bruce Smith said:I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
You are misinformed as "long time" users who choose not to subscribe will continue to receive software updates to maintain compatibility with operating systems as well as with new features/new books. And you will retain use of the features and books you purchased prior to the start of subscription (October 21, 2024).
Bruce Smith said:I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own.
You lose nothing, and can continue to purchase books as required.
I'm honestly tired of seeing the same points made by so many people that make them look like they haven't actually read up on the information regarding the subscriptions.
And some of us are tired of these types of posts..... Why does a person that doesn't support Logos decisions or views at all times have to be "misinformed" as Dave states in this quote??? Only Bruce can let us know what he really meant - but when I read his statement, I read a user that disagreed with having to subscribe to use updated software (New Features, etc) rather than being able to purchase the updates as we were able to for the life of the company....(I could be wrong, but doesn't Bruce deserve to be asked for clarity, rather than being scolded about being "misinformed" - which based on his response seems like he was NOT misinformed)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Antony Brennan said:
I could list a number of recurring annoying features in forum posts, but, this being the place for people to ask questions, these features are concomitant with forum life. I was, in a previous post, bemoaning the presence of petulant brats, and after many responses from thoughtful respondents I concluded the same about that.
I'm not saying it does not have an annoyance value. I guess I prefer the people who ask those questions over the petulant brats.
And how does labeling any user in the Forums "petulant brats" improve anything? If anything, that type of label should be checked against Forum Guidelines
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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MJ. Smith said:Aaron Hamilton said:
Mark Barnes started this thread with an invitation for people to share their honest thoughts. Obviously he knew (as should we all) that not every thought/opinion is going to be positive. Why tire yourself by reading threads such as this?
If I were to defend Jonathan, I would point to the difference between 50 people stating similar positions vs. 1 person posting the position 50 times. The former is of more use to Mark and, generally, more interesting to read. Before people jump on me, note that I posted a hypothetical precisely because a hypothetical is what I mean.
I have a question to your hypothetical - does the same hypothetical view apply to the same to positions of a positive review? Reason I ask, where are the complaints or negative labels for those users who post frequently about the positives of subscribing or the Dynamic Toolbar or is that acceptable because they are praising Logos?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Dave Hooton said:Fred Holmes said:
To my fellow LOGOS users who have not subscribed yet....
Fred, this part of your response was not requested, so I ask that you and other users refrain from further comment as this is not a discussion thread.
While I may not agree with parts of Fred's post - why should he refrain from further comment? You've turned this into a discussion thread as much or more than Fred did with his answer to Mark's post.....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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1. Subscribed.
To mirror another user, I was at first skeptical, yet not dramatic.
As I began to listen to the explanations given for this move, I began to be more under.
When I learned that I can pay for two years upfront and then keep everything but the cloud based functions for life, I was sold.So far, I’m quite happy with it and am showing a friend everything on Wednesday who is likely to join up as well.
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I really encourage you to look more into what subscriptions actually mean. You are not going to lose anything if you never subscribe, and your software will continue to upgrade. You can even continue to buy books like you always have.
If you subscribe for two years straight, you get to forever keep the features You subscribed to two years ago. if You pay for a two year subscription, nothing really ever changes for you.0 -
charlie said:
I really encourage you to look more into what subscriptions actually mean. You are not going to lose anything if you never subscribe, and your software will continue to upgrade. You can even continue to buy books like you always have.
If you subscribe for two years straight, you get to forever keep the features You subscribed to two years ago. if You pay for a two year subscription, nothing really ever changes for you.[Y]
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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charlie said:
If you subscribe for two years straight, you get to forever keep the features You subscribed to two years ago. if You pay for a two year subscription, nothing really ever changes for you.
That would be "some" features - not all features are kept - so it is not the same and has changed. Also, as of now - until we hear different from Logos - only L10 Feature Owners of qualified levels receive the LFL after 2 years - not everyone.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:charlie said:
If you subscribe for two years straight, you get to forever keep the features You subscribed to two years ago. if You pay for a two year subscription, nothing really ever changes for you.
That would be "some" features - not all features are kept - so it is not the same and has changed. Also, as of now - until we hear different from Logos - only L10 Feature Owners of qualified levels receive the LFL after 2 years - not everyone.
And not all of the features that can be kept are known right now.
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I subscribed right away. It is more cost effective than buying the features each time Logos came out with new ones.
The new Bible study tool was a big draw for me, but it needs to draw from more resources and have optional question formats.
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If I remember correctly, they said you keep everything that is not cloud-based. I don't think a list has been given, but I believe most things would fall under not cloud-based.
The majority of functions do not use the cloud. That is mostly the AI functions.
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There are lists out there - they were reposted again recently in response to someone asking
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Like a Christmas hamper? I am not too concerned about the contents. I own my formerly purchased contents, but the features keep moving further and further away. Now I need to pay for the features that were once part of the product. Secondly, with this new AI addition, it's based on a credit basis (which was not revealed, until now), means that certain searches count against your usage. I am not an AI fan (in bible software), but why would people be limited to use it, if it is part of the subscription. I noticed that a basic search (now includes AI), and these gets deducted from your AI credit base.
I am not sure, why the subscription is needed if you are still buying books and still need to buy features. Should the one not replace the other. If the subscription is to provide better, greater or more service, then provide the service. I am still needing to buy books, features, and courses. The subscription did not make the Logos experience better. There was nothing better in the hamper. It just cost more.
I live in Africa dude. I can't afford to pay $10 a month on something that does not provide any more resources than what I already own. So no. It's not about the Christmas hamper. To many of us regular poor pastors in third world countries, the only way to get access to resources is through logos, but the market is built for the US audience. I will be cancelling the subscription because it's just too expensive, maybe not for the regular American, but where I live $10 is a lot of money.
Nothing personal.
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QUESTION ONE: "Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?"
ANSWER ONE：No, I have not, and I am undecided whether I'll get it in the future, but probably not.
QUESTIONS TWO: What's the primary reason for your decision?
ANSWER TWO: ………….One of the main perks of subscribing is the ability to purchase a new Logos library, but since there isn't an Original Language Library (or any other library I am interested in) among the 2025 Libraries, subscribing doesn't seem very compelling to me. Also, in the past, I enjoyed using the feature crossgrade and then the feature upgrade path, but now thos paths have been taken away and replaced with a subscription-based model, and I find that rather disappointing. I think it should have been possible to offer both a subscription model for features that are dependent on the web and a traditional model for features that are not web-dependent and that do not need to be updated often. I guess I also have a bit of subscription fatigue.
Grace and Peace,
Brian
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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Per my original post, I was on the fence about subscribing… and taking the long view, I still am. But I decided to give the 30-Day free trial subscription a go.
I'm not at all a fan of the "subscription only" model, nor did I see any new features that got me excited during the free trial. But as I considered my relationship with Faithlife (what it has been and what I hope it can continue to be) I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt, and stick with them for the next 24 months via a two-year subscription. I'm "hoping" that during that time, they might figure out a path to a dual-use model, allowing for either purchase or subscription, OR find a way to offer everyone (including new customers) the ability to have the equivalent of a LFL if they stay subscribed for 24 consecutive months.At the end of my two-year subscription, I'll re-evaluate whether to continue subscribing. Two major considerations will be if Faithlife continues to offer L10 owners LFLs with every 24 months of subscription, as well as which features are included in the LFLs.
Transitions are rarely easy, but in the end, if no direct purchase options are provided, I hope Faithlife finds some way to offer subscribe-to-own plans, similar to the old rent-to-own models.
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Yes (no. 1) - I was already subscribing through FL connect (no library), and my church was paying for my subscription to the Pastoral Premier Cloud. So I was already comfortable in a subscription mode. It made sense to me when I paid to purchase one of the older upgrades (Logos 8 to 9 perhaps, I forget) and the cost of a couple of years of subscription was about the same as purchasing. So I chose the FL Connect and was happy with it. Then the Pastoral Premier Cloud subscription was set to go away, and so the shift to Logos Max basically replaces both those previous subscriptions.
I just have to be careful when purchasing a resource that I don't already have access to it through the subscription. Logos does a good job not charging me for a resource I own when I purchase a package. The same is not true for rentals. They will charge me for stuff I already have "temporary access to." When I buy a package, it is tedious to go through the resources and make sure everything will be new to me.
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I've subscribed but have no intention of renewing. The AI search is nice, but I find myself able to find relevant results just fine without it. Most of the sermon features with AI tend to be shallow or so generic to be useless.
As an L10 Full Feature owner there is very little that even the highest subscription offers. I already have a product that works just fine for me.
In addition, I was also put off by the sermon builder for Android being lumped into the subscription features when L10 owners already have full access to it on iPad. It's given the whole system a bit of stink to me and I don't intend to spend $200 to get it in a fallback license. Certain features (such as instant dark-mode or the dynamic-toolbar) seem more like bug fixes or software updates than features. Keeping those behind a paywall has given me a nickle-and-dime impression of how business will be run, and I'm not too interested in keeping up with all of that.
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I am a subscriber and I think it is the best way for the company to run its business and it is good for most of us to be reassured that the mutual benefit will continue.
Blessings in Christ.
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I am a subscriber and I think it is the best way for the company to run its business and it is good for most of us to be reassured that the mutual benefit will continue.
Blessings in Christ.
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Nickel and diming … that was my impression on Mark's logic for L10'ers vs free trial. His argument was an accountant, instead of a marketer. As I understand it, they're heavily departmentalized.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I was a very reluctant 1.
I did the free trial (L10 FF owner), and at first I canceled it because I wasn't really impressed. But when they offered the free books/courses and 5% discount, I decided to keep it, at least for a bit (I was still in my free trial period). I see now that L10 FF owners would not get a free trial... if that had been the case when I subscribed, I would most likely not be a subscriber.
From the beginning, everything seemed to be overpromised and underdelivered.
The Live Launch was extremely underwhelming. Not only was it not "live" (it was completely pre-recorded), but if you had already been a subscriber or had been active here on the forums, there was nothing new. Even more… they made it seem like you needed to watch it live, and there'd be lots of giveaways. But they had already pre-selected all the winners beforehand because they were announcing them during the launch, and they had a notice that all the winners had given permission to use their names… which means these were all pre-selected. So what in the world was the point of having a "Live" launch when nothing about it was live and all the info in it had already been announced?
The free book for November was very underwhelming. I wouldn't have expected a super awesome book each time, but one would have thought for the very first month it might be something very nice. You only get one chance to make a first impression.
The courses were originally promised as "You get access to Mobile Ed courses best for the kind of study you do in Logos" - but in reality it almost seems they were randomly chosen. One would have thought that the course geared toward small group leaders would have been given to the subscription marketed as "Great for small group leaders & in-depth study" and the course on pastoral counseling would have fit well with the subscription marketed as "Perfect for pastors & sermon prep" but instead both of those were given for the subscription marketed as "Ideal for language study & research". It just seemed like no thought was put into this.
I subscribed to Max, but so far as I can tell there is no difference at all between Pro and Max other than a couple more courses and some more temporary books. Personally, I have very little interest whatsoever in "renting" books.
I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have been a Logos user for 20+ years. I have spent more than I care to admit on books. I do want Logos to succeed. But so far everything has been very underwhelming.
Will I keep subscribing? Not sure. I don't really feel that I'm getting my money's worth.
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Sounds like you should switch to Pro for the time being, until Max has something that would interest you. As a Logos 10 owner, the only things you would lose as far as I recall are some rented books and three of the mobile courses that would be reserved for Max.
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Except that I paid for the whole year, in order to lock in the savings, so I'm kinda stuck.
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Yeah that Android Sermon Feature Parity being locked behind the paywall for customers that own it on all other platforms is getting close to the top of my frustration. The only "Feature Parity" that was charged for that was mentioned to me was for the original Mac Engine crossgrade for around $60 - which if I recall correctly was still lacking a number of features that the Windows version had - I don't recall any of the features added to bring the Mac engine up to date being locked behind an upgrade or subscription….
Us Android users are stuck with the iOS version - so we will be forced to buy an iPad or pay for two years of a subscription just for us to have Feature Parity for a Feature we already own….. (Notice we still have not heard any public response on this situation - the response I received was via personal communication)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I'm looking at my post and trying to figure out why me emoji didn't work.
👍️
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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