Why I can no longer recommend Logos Bible Software.
Comments
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@Saay while I appreciate your excitement for the Subscription Model - you say I am overlooking key things… Your original post didn't mention some of what you are mentioning here - some points that I never questioned about Subscriptions - the perks will be a benefit some users at varying levels….
You also want to speak of apples to apples - you are the one that brough up how much Gold cost, not me….L10 Gold also did include the Translation tool and Print Library, both features not eligible for the LFL due to the AI/Cloud rule - so again, you are not giving full context…
Comparing what users pay for Gold and/or FFS upgrades every two years to Premium or Pro is also not apples to apples - as previous upgrades of the FFS included everything and again the user OWNED their features….
Subscriptions not being forced? Also you leave out the context…. Logos has now shifted to charging for/requiring a user to subscribe for parity with features they already own (Android Sermon Manager) - which has never been the case previously… Non-subscribers are not allowed to purchase 2025 Library offerings (Logos claims that was always the case and nothing changed - again disregards the context that they never forbade new users from OWNING features that were purchased with the Libraries in the past…. They unhitched features from libraries in the New Era - but want to force subscriptions - so no Feature Parity and no chance at new libraries…. Before someone chimes in with the comments about subscriptions being necessary for AI - why force AI on users that have voiced they don't want it?)
So enjoy your subscription, I hope those who can benefit from it do - but I am tired of seeing people go out of their way to glorify the practice, while ignoring, covering up or constantly confronting those of us who point them out as those with are "Satanic" - yes it happened LOL!
I just read a user on the forums blog that claims connection to Logos that has a great post of why people need to subscribe and how awesome it is…. The problem? The post was telling new users that they get to keep non-AI features with a 2 year subscription…. Simply not true at this time - hopefully it becomes true and as stated, I have been arguing that point…
We have had users on the Forums that seem to have been misled when it comes to subscriptions being told they can get a refund - again inaccurate and hopefully Logos works with them…. But another disadvantage of a Subscription - no refunds, even within 30 days…
So while there are benefits with a subscription, there are also currently disadvantages with it in comparison with the Golden Era model….
Side note on the affordability argument - with the old purchase option, users didn't have to pay the full price up front - Logos offered monthly payment plans that helped with affordability and the users actually owned their purchase…
It would be nice to see the purchase option restored along side the Subscriptions, with the option for purchasers to subscribe to AI if they'd like…. But not an option yet…. We'll see
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I think you are actually making the point that @DMB was making with Netflix - you do own nothing with Netflix, Netflix is an easy come and go, they aren't offering anything this Spring that interests you - cancel and come back when they do….
With Logos, unless you take that same mindset - it is different, if a user makes a significant investment in books - they are stuck with the platform and potentially lose the best use of those books, if they stop subscribing and drop to the free engine…. (So not an easy "come and go" subscription (which is likely the goal - lock users in) because a user has invested)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I feel the need to once again make it clear that being anti Subscription ONLY - is not anti subscription… (Some refuse to or just don't understand that concept)…
Many of us that point out issues we see, have subscribed to the old subscription offerings in the past (Now, Connect, etc.)
Some of us may even subscribe and give the LFL a chance at some point - but that doesn't mean that we have to close our eyes to what we see as issues with the "New Era" or with the "Customer Service" or lack there of in the "New Era" - depending on the situation…
To be honest I am STILL waiting for an answer to a couple questions that would allow me to make my own personal decision, as well as whether I may adjust my view on this thread's subject…. I've been asking since Spring for a little communication… One member of the team is awesome, but can't answer the questions I was asking…
I wound up contacting the PE firm about it and actually did receive a brief response, that didn't necessarily give me an answer and I am waiting on a response to that… I hope I do not need to contact the PE firm again but will….
Why? Because I am FULLY invested in this platform and have spent two decades and counting with it, promoting it and presenting it…. So I am going to question, "complain", "gripe" and push! As an invested customer, I have the right to - as do we all, to share our feedback when the company is making decisions that concern us….
Much the same way many of the Accordance users who down that platform and point out its problems (which didn't happen over night), some of us long term Logosians are beginning to not recognize the company we invested in - which does not mean we want the worst for it - doesn't mean our complaints and observations are invalid, but means we care enough about the product to take the time to share feedback and fight for what made us love the platform and support it for so long!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank: I think a better name for the New Era would be Private Equity Era… 😉
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I am still keeping track of this thread as it has some valuable information to be gain regardless of which side you are on. Just a few quick thoughts.
I clearly understand Frank's reasons for not subscribing at this point. I have also been somewhat vocal as I too hate the subscription ONLY model. Both could still happily exist side by side.
If the subscription model is so great, then why didn't everyone just subscribe to Faithlife Connect when it was available? Because the truth is that most people chose to purchase. The Connect subscription worked for some and that's great. But most didn't go for it. So the latest is now "Connect 2.0" with some twists like AI, the best being the LFL that was pushed for by multiple users and thankfully achieved.
In my case, I am one of those who prepaid the subscription anyway in good faith to get the LFL. I will definitely re-evaluate at the two year mark after I receive my LFL. So far all I have seen is an emphasis on features for new users and AI. I see nothing yet that is not AI or web based that would be included in the LFL. Not even the new Help videos. It's still early in the game but I'd like to see something I'll get to keep. The AI has its place and I've used it for a few things but it is definitely being over-hyped.
Not all of the information circulating is correct. I personally watched a Youtube video where the person stated that after two years you get to keep all the books. Not true.
Also, since I already own the Logos 10 FFS, I already own and get to keep the Automatic Translation Tool and the Scanning Print Books feature with or without a subscription.
To avoid a lot of angry new customers, Logos may want find more ways to communicate the non-refund policy on subscriptions, that subscription books are yours only while subscribed, and unless you already had a previous Logos package, you will not receive the LFL. It's easy to forget that not everyone was following the conversations in the forums when there was a lot more back and forth conversation and debate regarding the shift to subscription. Some are just finding out.
I am still holding out hope that Logos may reconsider at some point in the future and offer the option to purchase a permanent license (without the AI features of course), or at least continue to offer LFL and include new customers. Time will tell and it will come down to the numbers. They may get new users to subscribe for $10 a month who want to do basic study, but not everyone is interested in spending hundreds or thousands of dollars in books, especially if they can't continue to use the advanced features of Logos without paying.
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Exactly Mark … and with that big book investment, stopping your subscription features won't be pretty.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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You know why? Because this thread is fun!
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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If you find Logos slow (ignoring the AI functions which can be taxed at times) you may need a hardware upgrade. I find Logos to be very fast. I’m on a PC with 16GB RAM, with a 2TB SSD and a 2.8GHz i7 processor. Before with my old laptop it was slow but the developers did make improvements going from Logos 9 to 10.
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Indeed :-)
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You're "stuck with the platform" regardless of which platform you choose for your digital library. And the free version of Logos without a subscription is still better than any of the alternatives out there.
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Depends on your perspective. It only takes $49 to get the Accordance Stsrter software which includes all features.
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My perspective is that I don't think Accordance will be around in 5 years, so it's a big risk to invest any money in an Accordance library.
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I understand that. Time will tell.
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I hope (and pray) I'm wrong.
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Agreed :-)
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"I am still holding out hope that Logos may reconsider at some point in the future and offer the option to purchase a permanent license (without the AI features of course), or at least continue to offer LFL and include new customers." This is my hope. It is hard to recommend Logos without this…
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Sometimes I laugh that I should get out the popcorn reaction video. I had L10 and a full feature set before engaging with a subscription. In my circumstance I find value in the subscription. I want to see what I have after two-years of the subscription model and make an assessment. If the cost of the subscription were to double I highly doubt I would continue; I would fall back to L10+, whatever that looks like. I am hard pressed to recommend to anyone starting out that the subscription is a full worthy investment considering all of the uncertainties. Even expressed here by people that seem to be in the know, there are uncertainties and reservations. Some people have so much invested that they are taking a short watch and see stance, myself included. I would like to see my software suite continue to advance but I can already tell that I will not be a power user of AI functionality although I see some level of usefulness. I can ride out the two years before my retirement income makes the decision more pressing. Truly there has been a lot of discussion and the Faithlife company has made their decisions. We all hope that these continued discussions may lead to some bending by Faithlife and a hybrid choice an option with some permanent purchases of useful updated and new functions added. I frankly like the direction of the Factbook and Insights and how much you can dig in with information all in one place. It is hard to imagine any more features that I would find useful… frankly there are features I did not navigate prior, but the factbook expansion has helped.
I get it that there is a vision to bring Logos into everyday Christian study on a broader scale. Perhaps a subscription model will open this up but clearly this direction is not for everybody.2 -
Any decision made will be good for some but not for others. There is always a compromise. Is there a win-win solution? Is a hybrid model possible and cost-effective? Only the developers can answer that, and I hope those who have submitted questions will soon get answers. Everyone deserves a response to their question, good or bad.
While I can understand some of the frustrations expressed, every company has to think of keeping themselves afloat and profitable. Some folks have spoken of the possible demise of Accordance, but I hope they will continue to be a profitable business. Consumers need choice and competition makes everyone better.
I would suspect all those posting here want Logos to remain in business so we can continue to enjoy using their product. Yes, many of us did purchase Logos years ago and many of us have spent thousands of dollars buying upgrades and books over the years. None of us want to lose that, and Logos has assured us that we will continue to have access to whatever we purchase whether or not we subscribe.
I'm not going to gripe about this and that as, for me, it is a privilege to use Logos daily for my personal study, group studies, counseling, devotions, research, and so much more. There are plenty of free study tools but the free Logos app is still quite good, and there is also Accordance. Sure, there are many things Logos can improve upon, but I feel I'm getting good value for my investment.
I still remember the time I had to go to the library, searching through shelves, and piling books on the table that may have some useful info. Several hours later I would still be flipping pages, but eventually I'll be copying several of the pages that may be of interest then going home to transcribe my notes on my computer. Now I can do the same in Logos in just a few seconds, and I can use the Favorite's tool to save all my references. It continues to amaze me that I have thousands of books instantly available to me, even on my phone while in the waiting room of my doctor's clinic.
I've also used many software packages in the past like QuickVerse and Laridian's Pocket Bible. Some were quite buggy, and I've lost all of the books I bought on Pocket Bible. I can only hope that I will continue to have access to Logos for many years to come. Hopefully they will not stretch themselves too thin and lose their shirt while trying to bring in more users.1 -
@Saay I would suspect all those posting here want Logos to remain in business so we can continue to enjoy using their product. Yes, many of us did purchase Logos years ago and many of us have spent thousands of dollars buying upgrades and books over the years. None of us want to lose that, and Logos has assured us that we will continue to have access to whatever we purchase whether or not we subscribe.
There was a time when Faithlife's continued health had personal implications (Logos $$). These days, I might be in the severe minority, but that's probably no longer true. Over the years, my Logos paid off. It answered the questions I wanted answered. And the more recent features don't appeal (not saying, for anyone else). I'm satisfied. Lots to read and enjoy.
I was far more concerned, when Bibleworks announced their departure. As much as BW was an earlier design, I was impressed with the design relative to offering customers a good deal. Accordance, I have little experience with. BW was truly sad.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Wow, this thread is still going, eh?
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Were you expecting 'out of sight, out of mind'?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Frank, could you clarify something for me? You've repeatedly referred to "dropping back to the free version", which makes it sound like those who don't subscribe will actually lose the features they've previously paid for, and can only get the most basic level of free functionality. I purchased the Logos 10 Gold version before the subscription model started. I'm currently a subscriber, but if I cancelled that now, it's my understanding that I'll always have the level of functionality that I had in L10 Gold, even when a new version of the free engine comes out. No, I won't be able to keep any of the new features, even the non-AI features, unless I'm taking advantage of a legacy fallback license, but I won't lose the features I purchased in L10 Gold. I'll continue to use those features, but in the latest GUI that comes with the free version.
Are you saying that isn't the case?0 -
I'm not Frank but my initials got referenced above. And yes, bought features stick around. But, at least my discussion, pointed to new customers … as they buy a library, the features to make serious use of the investment disappear, if the subscription is cancelled. So, judicious library purchasing should recognize that the old equation is gone (books and features being bought together and owned).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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This - I was referring to the users that do not 'own' their features
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I would say that Logos has way more OL mistakes thank accordance. Way more. I rarely come across them in Accordance and see them in Logos many times literally every day.
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If Logos has "way more OL mistakes" I guess Logos must not be using the very same books and magazines from the OL writers as Accordance?
I suppose there is always a risk of errors when adding metadata and other underlying data but that shouldn't alter the original text of the resource.
If so, as a Logos user, John, I am sure you have been reporting them. If not, Logos has a Report Typo option in the Context Menu for us all to help improve our experience.0
