A Gift to ALL Catholics *smile*
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I am aghast with the skill, thank you for that link to Wikipedia. I stared at many of them trying to fathom that they were hand painted.fgh said:I doubt they were made by Michelangelo. More likely by a pupil.
If only you could see my poor capacity to even color with crayons you would comprehend my stupifaction.
A student you say? Unfathomable (to me) that any but a complete master could pull it off. I have much to learn of art it seems. Next time I'm in chicago I'll have to browse the art museum (provided I can avoid the modern art junk - blah).
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
Unfathomable (to me) that any but a complete master could pull it off.
Besides a good eye and a steady hand, it's mainly technical skill, I believe, which is something one would learn during one's studies/apprenticeship. The world is full of technically skilled painters who don't have the creativity or genius to become masters. This is what some of them do to earn a living. In Rome you can (or at least could; I haven't been there for a while) find people who every morning draw a copy of some famous painting on the pavement, and then sit there all day hoping for money. The art version of street musicians. Some of them are very good, at least in my unknowledgeable eyes.
I guess it's a bit like the difference between a systematic theology and the Gospel of John. One is technique and hard work, one is genius.
Thomas Black said:If only you could see my poor capacity to even color with crayons you would comprehend my stupifaction.
Believe me, I'm no better! I just happen to live in a part of the world where these things are a bit more common than in the US.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
Besides a good eye and a steady hand, it's mainly technical skill, I believe, which is something one would learn during one's studies/apprenticeship. The world is full of technically skilled painters who don't have the creativity or genius to become masters.
A personal side note: my father-in-law was a gifted artist who spent some 40 years living off his art. When he had a stroke in his mid-eighties he retained his skill at drawing but lost his creativity and enjoyment. If made us realize how separate the elements are.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Dear Sweet Milford:
It has been strongly suggested that I apologize to you. Quite frankly, I am not ready to do that. One might assume that I have lost some of the conviction that prompted me to post in the first place. I find it Ironic (if not inspired) that your thoughts turned to Luther. Mine did also..I pondered if he had had a wicked step-mother who threatened to withhold his supper until he apologized... What Would Luther Do? I am convinced that he went to his grave never having apologized for what he believed to be true. I will ,however, make one more stab at explaining my motives.
I never , for a moment, thought it was your intention to be divisive. I understand that the words of M.J. that you quoted are a breath of fresh air to you. That is not the case for everyone. I suspect that they can actually be a bitter pill for some who live on the other side of the fence. I also suspect that on some subconscious level you had an uneasiness about including those words. Otherwise,You would not have made this statement.
Milford Charles Murray said:I don't want to get into any theological discussions that in any way abuse the Forum Guidelines.
But, today I want to share something that I find very beautiful..... *smile*
Many have found the site inspiring and have returned to thank you for exposing them to it. It is still my conviction that many others may have gone to see if it had not been prefaced by a paragraph that did not serve to quell division...in some cases, quite the opposite. If anyone is to see the "message" beyond the "great art", they must look at it with a peaceful, serene, open mind.
That brings me to my final point...PEACE. There is only one individual who can speak peace into existence. Mark 4:39 the rest of us have to work for it...be willing to challenge error...teach...preach...even endure pain and suffering to see that it occurs.
I know that I can be a thorn in your flesh. I find no great pleasure in being a thorn. I just find myself led to share some thoughts, sometimes. Romans 5:3-6
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Silent Sam said:
if he had had a wicked step-mother who threatened to withhold his supper until he apologized
Golly, I'm a foster-mother, adoptive mother, birth mother ... but I've missed out on step mother.[:(]
Silent Sam said:I suspect that they can actually be a bitter pill for some who live on the other side of the fence.
I was raised as a Campbellite and even in that framework - Restoration "Protestant" can't see the problem nor imagine that my Church of Christ (with music think Standard Publishing flavor) pastor grandpa / elder dad could find a problem. I feel a bit like the McDonald's Wendy's ad "where's the beef?"
edited: Obviously don't trust my memory on advertisements. [:$]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I feel a bit like the McDonald's ad "where's the beef?"
Martha, may I? The phrase first came to public attention as a U.S. television commercial for the Wendy's chain of hamburger restaurants in 1984. [H]
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George Somsel said:Ronald Quick said:
George - I had to look up the word "curmugeon". Never seen it before - I learned something.
Not original with me. I believe MJ first called me that -- possibly offlist.
Also searched for curmudgeon in Logos - found an illustration:
4060 Sincere Flattery?
A curmudgeon on British publishing finally decided to retire at age 70. He was given the usual dinner. Associates, joyous at the prospect of his leaving, vied in elaborate praise. When the time came to respond, the old gentleman got up and said, “I had no idea I was held in such esteem. I shall stay on.”
Tan, P. L. (1996). Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations: Signs of the Times. Garland, TX: Bible Communications, Inc.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:
I feel a bit like the McDonald's Wendy's ad "where's the beef?"
You have provided the analogy that I needed. Not all burgers are created equal. Seldom will a burger chain see it as a compliment if you call their business by another name...even if you spell it with a small m. Wendy's does not wish to dwell under the golden arches, or be associated with the red haired bozo who resides there. The have their own approach/identity, and want to keep it that way.
I do not care to muddle through old threads to find the quote, but I will paraphrase something you said as best I can... "All followers of Christ are catholic, whether they know it or not...or want to accept it." Obviously, some do not accept it. It is not your definitions that are at issue, It is the motive behind putting those definitions forth. The folks who have issues with the capital C Catholic organization, will not want to be told they are catholic...even if you spell it Katholik. Why not let them labor under their belief that they are part of the Body of Christ?...AND QUIT PLAYING WORD GAMES.
God Bless
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Silent Sam said:
I do not care to muddle through old threads to find the quote, but I will paraphrase something you said as best I can... "All followers of Christ are catholic, whether they know it or not...or want to accept it." Obviously, some do not accept it. It is not your definitions that are at issue, It is the motive behind putting those definitions forth. The folks who have issues with the capital C Catholic organization, will not want to be told they are catholic...even if you spell it Katholik. Why not let them labor under their belief that they are part of the Body of Christ?...AND QUIT PLAYING WORD GAMES.
Thanks - I finally understand what you found offensive and understand what level we would have to begin at in order to communicate well with each other.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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George Somsel said:
Sam, practice what your name implies and just be silent on this subject. MJ is one of the most amicable persons on the forum -- unlike me since I'm a curmugeon. If she say "Enough", believe me when I say "It's enough."
Now, Dear Sir, I will revert to being silent. [:D]
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Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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MJ. Smith said:Silent Sam said:
I do not care to muddle through old threads to find the quote, but I will paraphrase something you said as best I can... "All followers of Christ are catholic, whether they know it or not...or want to accept it." Obviously, some do not accept it. It is not your definitions that are at issue, It is the motive behind putting those definitions forth. The folks who have issues with the capital C Catholic organization, will not want to be told they are catholic...even if you spell it Katholik. Why not let them labor under their belief that they are part of the Body of Christ?...AND QUIT PLAYING WORD GAMES.
Thanks - I finally understand what you found offensive and understand what level we would have to begin at in order to communicate well with each other.
[Y]
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Silent Sam said:MJ. Smith said:
I feel a bit like the McDonald's Wendy's ad "where's the beef?"
You have provided the analogy that I needed. Not all burgers are created equal. Seldom will a burger chain see it as a compliment if you call their business by another name...even if you spell it with a small m. Wendy's does not wish to dwell under the golden arches, or be associated with the red haired bozo who resides there. The have their own approach/identity, and want to keep it that way.
I do not care to muddle through old threads to find the quote, but I will paraphrase something you said as best I can... "All followers of Christ are catholic, whether they know it or not...or want to accept it." Obviously, some do not accept it. It is not your definitions that are at issue, It is the motive behind putting those definitions forth. The folks who have issues with the capital C Catholic organization, will not want to be told they are catholic...even if you spell it Katholik. Why not let them labor under their belief that they are part of the Body of Christ?...AND QUIT PLAYING WORD GAMES.
God Bless
Well, would you look at that ! Sam is capable of typing something other than guttural grunts. Even more amazing... he has a valid point. [^o)]
~
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Silent Sam said:
You have provided the analogy that I needed. Not all burgers are created equal. Seldom will a burger chain see it as a compliment if you call their business by another name...even if you spell it with a small m. Wendy's does not wish to dwell under the golden arches, or be associated with the red haired bozo who resides there. The have their own approach/identity, and want to keep it that way.
Silent Sam speaks the truth. Love the Sistine Chapel site.
Brad Fry, a non-Campbellite member of the Church of Christ.
2 Timothy 2:19 19But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
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I just wanted to say that this is the first time that I have visited Logos Forums. As a sojourner, I followed the most obvious path, Home/General/A Gift to all Catholics *smile*. I chose this link not because I am Catholic (I am Baptist) but because there were 4 pages of activity and I thought to myself, "What a good place to begin." Was I ever wrong. I greatly appreciate the link to the Sistene Chapel, breathtaking. =] I was simply speechless at the lack of sensitivity that was displayed in a few of the posts. I am no scholar and quite simply stated, I am an ordinary man. I lived in and of the world in all its filth. I was a drug addict and a fornicator. These were my most obvious sins. I was convicted of my sins over ten years ago and I sought deliverance through Christ Jesus and picked up my Bible and began to read and read and read. As I studied I found a Friend and a Redeemer. I purchased a Logos Bible Software package not be become puffed up with knowledge but to understand my Saviour better and to better realize His will for my life. I was not disappointed. I am however disappointed with this forum and will most likely not return for the reason that I simply don't need to debate how one church is superior or inferior to another. I can't see where this is edifying. I need to keep my life simple and anchored in Christ as He has, rather as the Holy Spirit has revealed Him to me. I love you and I feel I have the freedom to share with you honestly through this love but please do not throw out the baby with the bath water.
A skin cell in the belly button of the Body of Christ,
Brad Stogsdill =]
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Brad Stogsdill said:
. . . I thought to myself, "What a good place to begin." Was I ever wrong. I greatly appreciate the link to the Sistene Chapel, breathtaking. =] I was simply speechless at the lack of sensitivity that was displayed in a few of the posts.
Brad, welcome to the forums!
Please don't take the reactions of a few to color your view of these forums. Also notice in this thread how many were also upset at what you describe as a "lack of sensitivity." This is not typical of these forums.
Mostly what you'll find here is help in how to use Logos Bible software. Off topic discussions are discouraged, but happen anyway. These are almost always amiable, respectful and engaging. Occasionally something like this happens, and the brokenness of the human condition and the brokenness of the Body of Christ is exposed. Just like anywhere else.
Why don't you try a few other threads before you decide that there's nothing here for you. And if you have some questions about how to use Logos4, or some tips on what works well for you.
BTW, one thread to look at, thought it's a bit buried is this one: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/20083.aspx it's a place where new-comers often introduce themselves. One of the friendliest threads here.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Brad Stogsdill said:
I am however disappointed with this forum and will most likely not return for the reason that I simply don't need to debate how one church is superior or inferior to another. I can't see where this is edifying. I need to keep my life simple and anchored in Christ as He has, rather as the Holy Spirit has revealed Him to me. I love you and I feel I have the freedom to share with you honestly through this love but please do not throw out the baby with the bath water.
Brad, I urge you to take your own advice and "please do not throw out the baby with the bath water". That is, don't avoid the forums because of one thread. These forums are a diverse place, like the world, and conflict will happen from time to time. However, these forums tend to be the most well behaved "religious-oriented" forums I've ever been on.
If you find an argumentative thread, I advise you (and anyone else) to avoid it. Most of the time you will find the forums an agreeable place to learn about how to use the Logos software.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Thank You Todd and you are so right. I will take my own advice. =]
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Thank You Richard =]
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Brad Stogsdill said:
I am however disappointed with this forum and will most likely not return for the reason that I simply don't need to debate how one church is superior or inferior to another.
Hi;
This is my first post also. Interestingly, I came away with a totally different view of the thread. I think it's wonderful that people can express their concerns and find some common ground. One of the arbiters even thanked one of the participants for the explanation, and a starting point for communication. I don't think we should shy away from a peaceful discussion. Luther didn't. And his objections ended up not being quite so peaceful.
MJ. Smith said:Thanks - I finally understand what you found offensive and understand what level we would have to begin at in order to communicate well with each other.
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Anyone else see inconsistency here? :
One newby newbie makes his first post and is given a hero's/red carpet welcome within minutes. A second newby newbie posts a few minutes later and is ignored for over 24 hours.
Do a person's views on a particular issue determine whether they are welcome, or not?
As you can see, Chris, I am a relative newby newbie myself. This is the first time I have been bold enough to welcome anyone. Since the regular welcoming committee didn't see fit to do it...I will.
Welcome ! There is a wealth of information here concerning Logos software, and a few open minded folks who will have a civil conversation with you.
Enjoy ... God Bless
Edit : I suppose misspelling newbie demonstrates just how much of a newbie I am.[:$]
~
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Abi Gail said:
One newby makes his first post and is given a hero's/red carpet welcome within minutes. A second newby posts a few minutes later and is ignored for over 24 hours.
Do a person's views on a particular issue determine whether they are welcome, or not?
Of course all are welcome. I think I was just getting exhausted by this thread and didn't add to it for that reason. Sometimes a friendly welcome is used as a way to defuse a potentially contentious situation or (in this case) help convince someone that it's not usually argumentative here. Chris, the second newbie, didn't seem dismayed at all so didn't really need a response, at least that's how I saw it when I first read the post. But of course, welcome, welcome Chris. I'm glad you're here. I'm particularly glad another peaceful voice is here. And Brad, I welcome you too, and do hope you stick around. It truly is a friendly community. And we all grow and adapt as we learn better ways of steering around the dicey topics of conversation.
And thank you Abi for taking the plunge and being a welcomer. :-)
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Abi Gail said:
Anyone else see inconsistency here? :
One newby makes his first post and is given a hero's/red carpet welcome within minutes. A second newby posts a few minutes later and is ignored for over 24 hours.
Sorry to disappoint you Abi Gail. I have been busy doing a brake job on my son's Jaguar, baby-sitting my 2 year old. and measuring the bathroom for new floor tile. (Besides that, some of my posts yesterday would be deemed out-of-line by many. I needed a break. But thanks for mentioning the point. So,
Welcome to All Newbies !!
Hope everybody finds this a nice place to be.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Thanks for all your replies. I couldn't imagine what I had said to offend anyone. I must admit that I was getting the feeling I had stepped on some toes. It's good to know that we will not be ex-communicated for expressing our opinion.
Thanks again; God bless; ...Chris
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Chris Thompson said:
I couldn't imagine what I had said to offend anyone. I must admit that I was getting the feeling I had stepped on some toes. It's good to know that we will not be ex-communicated for expressing our opinion.
Wow, I had no idea that the lack of response to the last post in a 4-page thread could be taken as an unwelcoming cold shoulder. There has to be a last post in a long thread at some point, especially when the discussion has pretty much been played out and had started winding down already. But I guess we all need to be sure not to leave a last post by a newbie un-followed-up, because it could be taken as that dreaded silence that means something bad was said. I assure you that was not at all the case. Sometimes silence means nothing more than "I had nothing worth saying." I saw a quote today, something to the effect of "Sometimes silence is the best answer." And I also recall the great advice of one of the Desert Fathers "Don't speak unless you can improve upon the silence." And I'm reading Benjamin Franklin's autobiography right now and recently came across the place where he says "Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself." So our friend Silent Sam might be onto something. And with that, I'll retreat to the quiet mode again.
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Point Taken [:#]
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LOL, Peace and love to you all. =] If I could find a way, I would remove my post from yesterday, obviously I stepped right into the trap of the fowler and allowed myself to become offended where no offense was intended but words are like a bell, once rung they cannot be unrung. =] I am shamed that I gave CPR to a dying thread and thereby allowed my words to offend. I am certain that this is a loving, caring community and I will use more discretion in the future.
Love and Peace,
Your Brother in Christ
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Matthew C Jones said:
Sorry to disappoint you Abi Gail. I have been busy doing a brake job on my son's Jaguar,
I quit doing brake jobs quite a number of years ago. Now I only do break jobs. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Chris Thompson said:
Thanks for all your replies. I couldn't imagine what I had said to offend anyone. I must admit that I was getting the feeling I had stepped on some toes. It's good to know that we will not be ex-communicated for expressing our opinion.
Thanks again; God bless; ...Chris
I also got busy with other things after posting on this thread. But with your gracious first post, and your follow-ups, I'd say you're very welcome! Great attitude! You'll fit in well here.
Does this illustrate the danger of trying to interpret what's not said?
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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[^o)] HHHMMMmmm~~~ [^o)]
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I vote we let Alan Macgregor kill all the threads. [;)] (See there Alan, I know you can do it!)Rosie Perera said:There has to be a last post in a long thread at some point
Welcome one and all! Glad you're here.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
OK folks.
This thread is now officially dead.
Every blessing
Alan
OTK (Official Thread Killer) [;)]
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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HHHMMMmmm~~~ 0
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Don't worry Sam, it's a bit of an inside joke with Alan. I should have stuck a big smiley at the end.
:-)
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Brad Stogsdill said:
If I could find a way, I would remove my post from yesterday,
Brad, At the danger of prolonging this thread, I will respond. [:D] You have a few minutes to delete a post, provided no one has responded. You have more time to edit a post and remove any text. Both these options are available under the More menu in the upper right corner of your post. As a courtesy to others, use digression in removing text to which someone has responded. It tends to make them look foolish—or worse.
Welcome.
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Yipee! I've broken my jinx!
Mine wasn't the last post. I didn't kill it off![:D]
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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Silent Sam said:
As much as I would love to leave Alan with the final post in this thread, I must respond. [8-|]
Sam, you did not remain silent as you promised earlier. [:D]
Safari's spelling checker does not catch stupidity. The word is spelled correctly. It is just the wrong word. Would you believe that I thought I had typed discretion? [:$]
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Jack Caviness said:
Sam, you did not remain silent as you promised earlier.
Check Webster's again. Revert is not synonymous with Remain. [^o)]
Silent Sam said:Now, Dear Sir, I will revert to being silent.
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Alan Macgregor said:
OTK (Official Thread Killer)
Oh, Alan! This inside joke just went South!
In the state of Kansas, USA there was a fellow known as the "BTK" serial killer (Bind, Torture, Kill). He was a family man, an active church leader & postman.
The folk around this geographical region will first think of him when they see "OTK." That is not a association you need.
But don't answer this post or you just may kill off this thread after all. [;)]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Go ahead, Alan. I dare you. I double-dog dare you..
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Matthew C Jones said:
In the state of Kansas, USA there was a fellow known as the "BTK" serial killer (Bind, Torture, Kill). He was a family man, an active church leader & postman.
Way to keep the thread on topic, Mr. M.V.P. [:^)]
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K.J. said:Matthew C Jones said:
In the state of Kansas, USA there was a fellow known as the "BTK" serial killer (Bind, Torture, Kill). He was a family man, an active church leader & postman.
Way to keep the thread on topic, Mr. M.V.P.
What was the topic of this thread again? [:D] It went off the rails long ago.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:
It went off the rails long ago.
Point taken. So once it's off the rails, It's the MVP's job to help build speed before it goes over the cliff ?
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K.J. said:Todd Phillips said:
It went off the rails long ago.
Point taken. So once it's off the rails, It's the MVP's job to help build speed before it goes over the cliff ?
Yup. MVP stands for "More Velocity Please!" [:)]
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[^o)] HHHMMMmmm~~~ [^o)]
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K.J. said:
Way to keep the thread on topic, Mr. M.V.P.
The connection is there, if you would do some sleuthing.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
In the state of Kansas, USA there was a fellow known as the "BTK" serial killer (Bind, Torture, Kill). He was a family man, an active church leader & postman.
Matthew C Jones said:The connection is there, if you would do some sleuthing.
Do you speak of the time when a certain "religious organization" bound, tortured, and killed Christians for the "heresy" of owning a Bible?
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