Social / community features in Logos 5 and beyond
Comments
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What I find most ironic in all this is that the same company that keeps an understandably strict policy at its forums about theological discussion and debate is now embarking on having its same users collaborate within its program. Surely theology will then be an issue, right?
For me the Logos community is not the Church, though that is not to suggest that I believe many users are not Christians. Like the Christian assemblies in the first century, even among true believers there were carnal and spiritual (mature) members (and heretics). Hence all the divisions that Paul mentioned earlier in this thread.
Jack's comment concerning trusted authors is sound. Authors can earn our trust in the books they write by allowing us the opportunity to examine their theology. We cannot do the same without knowing the theology of others.
Ultimately this is why Christians have placed themselves into separate camps - the desire to protect themselves from error. Of course we all think (myself included) our camp is the perfect one, or at least the best one available until He returns and gets rid of all these man-made divisions. The church of Corinth is a classic example, and I have always been amazed that Paul did not praise those "with Christ" from the other mentioned groups. Seems clear to me that there should be no divisions whatsoever.
To that end this direction Logos seems to be headed is again noble, but it is flawed, and could prove destructive to new believers in feeding on false doctrine by others they won't even know. Today we are just talking about highlighting, ratings, reviews, etc., but where does tomorrow take us?
Regards
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tom said:Jack Caviness said:
Many of these same objectors then cried foul that Logos would dare to store then very private Bible Study notes and Prayer Lists on their servers. Now, it seems that they have allowed Logos to store their data on the Logos servers, but object to Logos using that data for statistical purposes. Those protestors will have to forgive me for not taking their objections seriously, for it does not appear to me that they are very serious in their propositions.
Excuse me Jack, but how in the h - e - double hockey sticks do you know if I am storing my prayers on Logos' servers? Here is a hint: I am not! Please do not make assumptions on what I am doing and then make blanket statement based on your assumptions.
You missed the point, and I am done with this thread
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hi
all this sounds very interesting,
how can you even think about doing this sort of thing when you can't even get
video resources to stream correctly ,. I still cannot get the videos to work,
the product. I am trying to get to work correctly is called The Greatest Book Series
why can't logos 5 use the videos from my dvd why do I have to streamer them?
mick
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Hi Mick
Michael Parry -Thomas said:I still cannot get the videos to work,
the product. I am trying to get to work correctly is called The Greatest Book Serie
Didn't the process which Bradley outlined at http://community.logos.com/forums/p/55400/400829.aspx#400829 get this working for you?
If not, I suggest you post back in that thread
Graham
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Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:
At any rate, just 50 to 60 years ago, everyone was much more "social" than they are now and "privacy" was an altogether different conversation.
And do you know what is interesting, Charles? For all of our present day trends towards "community", for all of our social networking, for all of our Internet "relationships"... every study out there has indicated that people are more and more fragmented, more and more isolated, less and less connected, and more and more lonely and depressed. That's because all of this so called "community" isn't biblical "community" at all. It isn't true Christian koinonia. Online "relationships" aren't "real" relationships. People are substituting a two-dimensional imitation of community and relationship -- a caricature -- for the real thing. It's tragic. It actually creates a greater hunger than it satisfies.
That's one of the reasons why many of us are very uncomfortable with the whole "community" and social networking approach... It promises something it does not deliver, and provides the illusion of intimacy rather than its substance. And one of the more alarming things is to see that being promoted so much in the church. People have their heads in their iPads or phones (often pursuing their own interesting and personal rabbit trails than really tuning in to what the pastor is trying to communicate from God to the "community" of the Body at large), or are connecting to "virtual" Bible studies, "virtual" Life Groups and "virtual" prayer circles rather than taking the time and effort to become involved face to face in the real thing with live human beings, where real relationship, with all of its challenges, are worked out. If a relationship gets challenging in the virtual "community", one can simply dismiss the other person.
And just like "virtual sex", they are trading real intimacy by engaging in the illusion of the real thing. True "fellowship" and intimacy in most churches today is a joke... and in my experience, the more into tech the congregation is, the less they actually relate to one another in deep ways.... and conversely, the more that they discover real, meaningful fellowship and relationships and community with their brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, the more often they turn off their "devices"... or start leaving them at home.
And some of us "reactionaries" are trying to provide a voice of discernment in this barren technological wilderness. So yes, for this and other reasons, I'm not really excited to see my Bible software being taken over with community and social networking features.
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Just as a follow up to clarify my last post... in any event, those of us who feel that way aren't saying that others have to feel the same or agree with us. If this form of community blesses you and you want to engage in it, then God bless you! I just as strongly advocate your right and opportunity to avail yourself of it if you so choose. Those of us who have scruples about it, however, are simply asking for the same courtesy in return. Allow us the right to opt out if it makes us uncomfortable. Consider us as the weaker brother if you like. [:)]
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Patrick S. said:
The discussion pro & con is moot with respect to the European Union, because (and I don't have chapter and verse, and am not going to waste time looking for it) the EU has privacy laws protecting citizens.
I am confident that Logos has nothing to worry about on this count.
Part of the confusion pertains to the way in which this thread refers to 'privacy' in broad and imprecise terms. The Data Protection Act (the primary legislative framework pertaining to information governance within the UK which, in turn, reflects EU directives), is particularly concerned in respect of the safeguarding of personal identifiable information (broadly speaking). The issue, therefore, is whether Logos' data mining activities violate the protections regarding personal identifiable information. It seems that Bob has been very clear that the information thus analysed does not contain, nor is associated with, personal identifiable information.
The utilisation of the cloud to synchronise documents might be a concern (as Logos, by its own admission, do not apply the highest level of safeguards to this information) except that the legislation allows for a differentiation in respect of degrees of confidentiality. The information governance controls required in respect of medical records are, therefore, very different from that required in respect of, say, a prayer list.
Consent is also a factor. Agreement to the EULA constitutes consent (in the context of sensitive personal identifiable information, a more rigorous test, in law, may be required).
I cannot comment as to how this might relate to US law.
This is not intended to placate or reassure those who are unhappy with regards to the practice of data mining. It is intended, however, to bring clarity to the notion that Logos is invading or violating the privacy of its users (in a legal sense). From an UK/EU perspective, this notion is not supported by the current legislative framework.
You refer to violation by Google, Facebook, et al. I see no benefit in rehearsing the specific controversies here, except to say that I am unaware of any correlation between those specific scenarios and the activity of data mining (particularly where this is stipulated in the EULA).
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EmileB said:
For all of our present day trends towards "community", for all of our social networking, for all of our Internet "relationships"... every study out there has indicated that people are more and more fragmented, more and more isolated, less and less connected, and more and more lonely and depressed.
I thought that we were not suppose to talk about the Emperor's Clothes?
[;)]
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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EmileB said:
Allow us the right to opt out if it makes us uncomfortable.
Hi Emile,
You, and Donovan, have compellingly (and generously) articulated the need for such controls for those ministering on the mission field. For what it is worth, I not only support your request, but would willingly forgo any benefits universal data mining, synchronisation of documents, etc., might yield, if it ensured that those who most need the software are able to continue to use it.
I thank the Lord for the astonishing tools and resources made available through Logos Bible Software. However, when viewed in the clear light of the day, it is a luxury. I can access libraries and order books for next day delivery. I appreciate that, on the mission field, this may not be possible and, as such, for those on the front line, Logos is considerably more than a luxury and perhaps approaches something close to a necessity.
Blessings [:D]
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Patrick S. said:
If there is a complex (but powerful) feature or function in a software package like Logos which data mining shows is used infrequently and/or ineffectively should the software company cut it out? After all, data mining clearly shows that it is not being used very much, and most of those people who do use it don't use it well/properly — it's right up there on the far side of the bell curve.
It is almost certain that the more advanced tools such as Syntax searches, Graphical Queries and transcriptions of ancient manuscripts will only be used by Bible scholars and advanced students using Greek and Hebrew. In fact, even they will not use these specialized tools every day. But does that make these tools less important? These less used tools are like some specialized tool in a craftsman's toolbox. He does not use it every day or on every project. But when he needs it, none of his everyday tools will do the job.
Most of the cutting edge advances in any field are made by specialists who use tools that the average person would not understand. This is no less true in Bible scholarship. Scholars deep deeply into minor details of the biblical text and present the results of their analysis in scholarly journals and meetings of professional societies. Then other scholars test their work to verify its accuracy. Very precise tools are necessary for this research and the continuing scholarly dialog. The work of scholars largely goes unnoticed by average Christians. Eventually the results of their research filters down into commentaries and popular Christian books and then pastors start using the information in their sermons. But scholars are important part of the body of Christ that protects the body from the attacks of skeptics and internal decay withing the church.
The beauty of Logos is that it provides a wide range of tools and resources for everything from new Christians to the most advanced scholar. I hope Logos will continue to offer tools and resources for the 1% who want to dig deeper. The whole church will be the better for it.
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Dear Emile: Great Post!
I agree with everything you said about the social trends in our country and, the world around us I suppose.
You get no argument from me there-same page.
It's why I brought up the examples from the past.
However, the real question concerning that is "what is privacy"?
The bottom line is that it means different things to different people, depending on how they were raised, what their life experiences are, so forth and so on.
Privacy has always and will always mean different things to different people, thus, we need options within the software so each person can opt in, or opt out.
Next: My understanding of Bobs post was that no "personal" information was part of the plan, just simple data on "how the program " was being used.
Again, If this is the case, we have "this information" extracted from "the devices" we use-constantly. Take your car to the shop, how the car is being used is extracted as a data set.
Use the internet, how the internet program and pug-in's are being used is extracted data.
Use a cell phone, same deal.
Use cable internet? Data of usage is extracted about that connection.
Visit a restaurant ? Data is extracted from the usage of that establishment.
Go to Wal-mart? Data is extracted from each persons visit , they can tell you the major age groups of shoppers, % difference between male and female, display attraction rates, colors best responded too etc, etc.
Do the stores, car manufacturers have a right to collect and use this "data" ?
We all extract Data all day long, without permissions , I might add, it's just what our brain does.
Go into a store, spend 20 min there and believe it or not, our brains stored huge amounts of "data" while there, every person we saw, what they were doing, what they looked like, all the products we looked at, where they were etc, etc.
Thus, we can say: Data mining is done all the time.
The question that is presented here at Logos is what kind of data, how it is to be used, is it randomized ( non-personal ) and can we opt in or out?
We certainly don't want Logos telling us what to think, believe and/or what to read.
I , for one, do not want my desktop cluttered up with things I don't want or need. Thought I will access community "thoughts/trends etc" from time to time if that data is available, as a research tool.
I would not mind sharing a sermon, however, I would not want research notes shared, they are messy, full of questions and incomplete thoughts, that's why they are research "notes" -smile.
So, for me, it comes down to what is being gathered, what is being presented and options that fit ( as best as possible ) the needs of a pretty wide group.
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EmileB said:
And do you know what is interesting, Charles? For all of our present day trends towards "community", for all of our social networking, for all of our Internet "relationships"... every study out there has indicated that people are more and more fragmented, more and more isolated, less and less connected, and more and more lonely and depressed. That's because all of this so called "community" isn't biblical "community" at all. It isn't true Christian koinonia. Online "relationships" aren't "real" relationships. People are substituting a two-dimensional imitation of community and relationship -- a caricature -- for the real thing. It's tragic. It actually creates a greater hunger than it satisfies.
That's one of the reasons why many of us are very uncomfortable with the whole "community" and social networking approach... It promises something it does not deliver, and provides the illusion of intimacy rather than its substance. And one of the more alarming things is to see that being promoted so much in the church. People have their heads in their iPads or phones (often pursuing their own interesting and personal rabbit trails than really tuning in to what the pastor is trying to communicate from God to the "community" of the Body at large), or are connecting to "virtual" Bible studies, "virtual" Life Groups and "virtual" prayer circles rather than taking the time and effort to become involved face to face in the real thing with live human beings, where real relationship, with all of its challenges, are worked out. If a relationship gets challenging in the virtual "community", one can simply dismiss the other person.
And just like "virtual sex", they are trading real intimacy by engaging in the illusion of the real thing. True "fellowship" and intimacy in most churches today is a joke... and in my experience, the more into tech the congregation is, the less they actually relate to one another in deep ways.... and conversely, the more that they discover real, meaningful fellowship and relationships and community with their brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, the more often they turn off their "devices"... or start leaving them at home.
And some of us "reactionaries" are trying to provide a voice of discernment in this barren technological wilderness. So yes, for this and other reasons, I'm not really excited to see my Bible software being taken over with community and social networking features.
Well said [Y]
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Paul Golder said:
Sometimes I think that folks are too
paranoid about there online privacy.. . . it's not like
some Christians are hunted down and imprisoned or killed for what the
authorities have discovered on the internet...At least not in America . . . YET!
Core i7-2630QM CPU 2.00 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 64-Bit Windows 7 Professional SP1
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Jack Caviness said:
Popular Highlights, on the other hand, are anonymous, so I cannot evaluate their value.
Somehow, I think people are loosing track of that. I find it humorous that there is all the fuss about something of the nature of "in a resource that has been highlighted by more than some number of users out of approximately 750,000 users, this particular word or phrase has been highlighted by at least x percentage of those users." the highlights. meaning - positive, negative or neutral - is totally unknown e.g. it may be marking a difficult word, the end of one's reading, strong agreement, strong objection, point the prof might test on ... This strikes me as anonymous and useful primarily for sociological studies.
I suspect that the real issue is fear that it may become a slippery slope to the point that we could at least make educated guesses as to the group and/or meaning of the highlights. If I shared that concern, I would share the objections of the privacy seekers. If I am wrong and their real issue is the data-mining itself, Logos has been mining out data openly for several years. It is simply that old fears have been resurrected.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I suspect that the real issue is fear that it may become a slippery slope to the point that we could at least make educated guesses as to the group and/or meaning of the highlights. If I shared that concern, I would share the objections of the privacy seekers.
Some of us are concerned by both.
MJ. Smith said:If I am wrong and their real issue is the data-mining itself, Logos has been mining out data openly for several years. It is simply that old fears have been resurrected.
Hmm. Wish I had know that a year ago. If I had, I probably wouldn't have switched to Logos...
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MJ ... your absolutely correct. What with my 5 accounts at Logos and my fascination for Asherah (Baal's ok when he's not making a complete fool of himself with El), people are going to figure this in no time at all!
(I'll delete this message really soon before anyone reads it).
EDIT: That tricky CEO for Logos is AT IT AGAIN! (I can't believe it). I turned off my Logos5 to protect it from becoming 'unclean'. Then they offer the 'Samaritans and Early Judaism' (I think in the Jewish package). Oh goodness. Good thing I kept Libronix linked up with Logos.com. Whew!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Btw: Forums are data mined.
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Andy Evans said:Patrick S. said:
The discussion pro & con is moot with respect to the European Union, because (and I don't have chapter and verse, and am not going to waste time looking for it) the EU has privacy laws protecting citizens.
I am confident that Logos has nothing to worry about on this count.
I wouldn't be so sure. Not saying that any EU commissioners or whatever are knocking on Logos' door right now, but why push it?
Andy Evans said:I cannot comment as to how this might relate to US law.
Without wanting to offend any of our US brethren, I would have to say I am really not 'bound up' by American law. Who says it is perfect?
Andy Evans said:Agreement to the EULA constitutes consent
As I said, Logos cannot abrogate EU users' civil rights via an EULA, foreign or not. And if I was them I would not put it to the test. What the heck would be the point?
Point in case (and this is the reason I included Apple in my previous post) is Apple's situation regarding warranties in the European Union. Apple was selling extended (AppleCare) warranties in the EU. Only problem is that the standard (free) warranty period granted to the consumer through purchase is longer than Apple's standard (guess what they provide in America) warranty and they were trying to charge EU users for extended (AppleCare) warranties which overlapped the default warranty. Guess who lost? And paid out a lot into the bargain.
Also I believe Facebook is also currently in privacy hot water in the EU and it is not even anything related to PII (Personally Identifiable Information) it's related to not giving users the option to control their own privacy.
Andy Evans said:This is not intended to placate or reassure those who are unhappy with regards to the practice of data mining. It is intended, however, to bring clarity to the notion that Logos is invading or violating the privacy of its users (in a legal sense). From an UK/EU perspective, this notion is not supported by the current legislative framework.
We're not talking about "invading" or "violating" we're talking about not providing any means whatsoever of opt out — and setting that as a default.
Also heck, if Logos was invading or violating privacy then they would be in even deeper doo doo.
Then there is the point about sending possibly personally identifiable information cross border (to servers under the jurisdiction of the US). European MEPS are getting really twitchy about that point.
And again, what I am saying is:
a) Why risk it? Why risk (and they very likely eventually would be) stepping on governments' toes; why risk aggrevating and alienating some percentage of their user base?
b) It's not that big a deal, put the option in their to opt in / opt out and believe that most people will be interested to support / benefit from user data aggregation and let's move on.
[Edit] The statement "let's move on" I was meaning in the sense of let's agree that there are valid differences — which can be addressed — and let's move on improving Logos as a tool for us studying the word. As I had outlined in a couple of previous posts.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:
Btw: Forums are data mined.
Within minutes of you posting something on this forum it is already indexed by Google.
And FYI you are being tracked on the Logos forum...
and here's what this company OpenX does with what it tries to get on you... basically you are a commodity to be sold...
Regarding PII (point one in screenshot) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personally_identifiable_information
Logos could well be already (indirectly) in violation of this EU directive...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Privacy_and_Electronic_Communications
"Data retention and other issues
The directive obliges the providers of services to erase or anonymize the traffic data processed when no longer needed , unless the conditions from Article 15 have been fulfilled.[7] Data may be retained upon a user’s consent for marketing and value-added services. For both previous uses, the data subject must be informed why and for how long the data is being processed.
Where data relating to location of users or other traffic can be processed, Article 9 provides that this will only be permitted if such data is anonymized, where users have given consent, or for provision of value-added services. Like in the previous case, users must be informed beforehand of the character of information collected and have the option to opt out.[10]"
...through points 1 & 3 because this company tracking you (not me, I'm blocking them) on the Logos forum is engaged in this:
"pseudonymous profile
A pseudonymous profile is a collection of information about a particular computer user that identifies the user either by their computer's IP address or by a randomly-generated nickname. In general, a pseudonymous profile describes the particular interests, habits, and online activities that can be attributed to a specific user, or at least to a specific computer. Pseudonymous profiling is often used for Web site personalization, or for marketing purposes.
Although most organizations that create pseudonymous profiles assure users that they cannot be personally identified, some people have raised concerns. For example, if a user enters personal information at one Web site, it may become available to others. The user profile is linked to the IP address, which may be linked on another Web site to the user's personal information. Spyware objects such as Web bugs can be used to track users from one site to another. Some software products allow users to identify individual users of a multiple-user computer by analyzing data gathered about their keyboard usage, navigation patterns, and Web sites visited. The vendors of one such product, Predictive Networks, use click stream data, artificial intelligence (AI), and mathematical analysis to create complex pseudonymous profiles called Digital Silhouettes that can accurately distinguish specific users. Software products such as WebSafe and Anonymizer are designed to ensure anonymous Web surfing."
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Patrick S. said:
I wouldn't be so sure. Not saying that any EU commissioners or whatever are knocking on Logos' door right now, but why push it?
I agree that users cannot waive their statutory rights by EULA or any other means.
My point is, succinctly, this: the data mining activity as described by Logos does not involve or relate to personal identifiable information. Therefore, there is no risk of liability (in respect of UK/EU legislation). The EULA is relevant inasmuch as it establishes consent in relation to Logos lawful activity.
I share your concerns regarding some of the practices reported in relation to Google, Apple, Facebook, et al. Again, even allowing for the examples you kindly provide, I still maintain that the activity of those companies is not relevant to the data mining practices as described by Logos (these other issue differ in substance and in scope).
This issue (relating to the practices of Logos), from a UK/EU perspective is not a matter of law.
I accept that there is an issue of preference and, for some, a matter of conviction. I think you fairly reflect this in your observation,
Patrick S. said:why risk aggravating and alienating some percentage of their user base?
I certainly agree with your concluding point,
Patrick S. said:It's not that big a deal, put the option in their to opt in / opt out and believe that most people will be interested to support / benefit from user data aggregation and let's move on.
Finally, it is not my intention to be combative (please forgive me if this appears so [:|]). I recognise and greatly appreciate your many helpful posts on the forum. I also appreciate your fair and reasoned contributions to even potentially fractious debates such as this.
I am just concerned that anxieties and fears are not fuelled by a lack of clarity regarding matters of law and matters of fact.
I will happily allow you the final word on this issue and trust we can agree to disagree on friendly terms [:D]
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Bob Pritchett said:
Community tags supplement your own tags, and are intended to harness the "community" wisdom about a particular resource, helping you find things more easily and better understand your library.
Your comments are priceless.
Better understanding your library is a priority for someone like me with nearing 6,000 resources. It is my habit to tag each of my resources as I add them to my library. It would be very useful to have some way to maximally classify a resource by being able to expose some of the major themes in a resource. Sort of like an interesting words feature or to borrow an idea from Amazon kindle, x-ray the major features of the resource. This would be useful to those who search from collections something I do often.
Bob Pritchett said:We're lighting up collaborative documents at http://documents.logos.com. This will eventually be enabled for almost every document type.
The "personal" use case is your being able to publish (read-only) or collaborate (shared editing and ownership) documents with any group you'd like. A pastor / professor / teacher could publish notes on a book of the Bible. Students could collaborate on a note document on a textbook. A scholar could collaborate on a highlighting project with a research assistant.
A wish I have is to collectively wrestle into submission first Greek, then Hebrew, and Latin, finally German. The community encouraged by FaithLife may be a candidate for a willing proficient anointed soul to offer this. Reading Augustine which has been suggested in another thread "Reading the Fathers," is another e.g. of the same. Again, I appreciate the time you invested into baring your ideas and explanations.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
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Yep ... for a long time turning on cookies was just the 3 ones that Logos dumped in whether the forum or Logos.com. Then their Faithlife effort dumps in more. I usually go in and clear their dumps after a forum entry and for sure after a Logos.com purchase. I also keep my forum entries pretty random (or as Matthew notes 'an enigma').
NYTimes had a good 5 page article on this yesterday. Data auctioning, etc. The problem with Logos isn't 'today' per se but tomorrow. Bob can really rationalize when he wants to.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Andy Evans said:Patrick S. said:
It's not that big a deal, put the option in their to opt in / opt out and believe that most people will be interested to support / benefit from user data aggregation and let's move on.
Finally, it is not my intention to be combative (please forgive me if this appears so
). I recognise and greatly appreciate your many helpful posts on the forum. I also appreciate your fair and reasoned contributions to even potentially fractious debates such as this. Dear Andy — Hi I was in no way directing the phrase "let's move on" to you personally. My apologies if it appeared to you that way. I was directing this to Logos and the whole Logos user community. Not you personally — I would be upset if you took it that way.
I had mentioned in a number of previous posts that couldn't we all just agree that there are valid concerns from one side, a perceived (and likely real) benefit from the other side and let's "move on" as in agree and get a clear plan and close off this hashing and rehashing discussion which really is getting to have no value.
I got a bit techy also - and your post was one I just happened to reply to.
What do I hope to see - a good Logos product that benefits us all in this spirit that I expressed three screens ago [:)]
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/61459/436241.aspx#436241
Patrick
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Harry Hahne said:
It is almost certain that the more advanced tools such as Syntax searches, Graphical Queries and transcriptions of ancient manuscripts will only be used by Bible scholars and advanced students using Greek and Hebrew. In fact, even they will not use these specialized tools every day. But does that make these tools less important? These less used tools are like some specialized tool in a craftsman's toolbox. He does not use it every day or on every project. But when he needs it, none of his everyday tools will do the job.
Most of the cutting edge advances in any field are made by specialists who use tools that the average person would not understand. This is no less true in Bible scholarship. Scholars deep deeply into minor details of the biblical text and present the results of their analysis in scholarly journals and meetings of professional societies. Then other scholars test their work to verify its accuracy. Very precise tools are necessary for this research and the continuing scholarly dialog. The work of scholars largely goes unnoticed by average Christians. Eventually the results of their research filters down into commentaries and popular Christian books and then pastors start using the information in their sermons. But scholars are important part of the body of Christ that protects the body from the attacks of skeptics and internal decay withing the church.
The beauty of Logos is that it provides a wide range of tools and resources for everything from new Christians to the most advanced scholar. I hope Logos will continue to offer tools and resources for the 1% who want to dig deeper. The whole church will be the better for it.
Well put — and I trust that Logos continue with this in the spirit of Philippians 3:12
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Hi All!
I just tried to delete this post in "My Activity" on the "Logos Bible Software Forums" page since I re-wrote it better and posted it below, but it seems I was unable to delete it from here. It looks like I only deleted it only from "My Activity." Oh well, so much for trying to de-clutter this forum from one of my posts. Anyway, please just disregard and read my next post.
Thanks and God bless you all!
Blessings in Christ,
David
<')))>< <')))>< <')))>< <')))>< <')))>< <')))>< <')))><Hi Bob,
I echo Ron's sentiments...especially as a missionary and PhD student going abroad to a remote location for my field research. Being able to use my Logos without any requirement to connect to the Internet except occasionally for updates would be greatly appreciated as while I'm remote (hopefully not more than 2-3 months) I'll be using a Satellite phone at US $1 per minute so extremely cost prohibitive to use Logos if Internet access required.
Thanks and God bless you all!
Blessings in Christ,
David0 -
Hi Bob,
Blessed greetings in Jesus' precious name; I pray this finds you well in our Lord!
I have two concerns, please.
1) As a missionary/teacher
and PhD student going abroad soon to a remote location for my field research, being able to use my Logos without any requirement to connect to the
Internet except occasionally for updates would be greatly appreciated as
while I'm remote (hopefully not more than 2-3 months) I'll be using a
Satellite phone at US $1 per minute which is extremely cost prohibitive to use
Logos if Internet access is required.
2) Also, I would strongly desire a way to opt out of being tracked by Logos, not because I don't trust you all, but because of the sensitive places I travel. My concern is that if you can track my Logos use it opens up a portal that could be hacked by those monitoring Internet use where I may travel. I think you understand my concerns are not reflective of Logos but are out of concern for those who monitor the Internet where I travel, and out of safety for those with whom I interact and myself.
Thank you and God bless you all!
Blessings in Christ,
David
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DAVID said:
I just tried to delete this post in "My Activity" on the "Logos Bible Software Forums" page
For a limited time, you can delete/edit your posts from the More drop down menu at the right top of your post. You cannot delete a post after someone—in this case, you—has responded to it. However, you can still edit the content for a few hours. Most of us usually just replace the content with something like "Deleted by author".
DAVID said:being able to use my Logos without any requirement to connect to the
Internet except occasionally for updates would be greatly appreciatedYou can do that in both L4 and L5, and this ability will continue for the foreseeable future. Some features may be added in the future which will require internet access, but the functionality you now have will still be available offline.
DAVID said:My concern is that if you can track my Logos use it opens up a portal that could be hacked by those monitoring Internet use where I may travel.
Then, just being connected to the internet for synching and updates will open you up to the same tracking. The data mining discussed in this thread is taken from data placed on Logos' servers by the synchronizing features of both L4 and L5. This discussion concerns some users who object to the data from their use of Logos being tracked in this manner.
Does this answer your concerns? Do you need more information? My email is jackcav at triad dot rr dot com if you need information but do not wish to share your concerns publicly. (My address is separated in this manner to make it more difficult for spambot to contact me [8-|])
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Since information is collected anyway about our uses of Logos, how about posting the most interesting search of the day for Logos 5 and its results from its many users.
That would give some of us, who still have not purchased Logos 5, some idea how it is being used. At a minimum it would hold our interest and may motivate us to upgrade from Logos 4 in time.
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Bob Pritchett said:
As a concession to "the missionary with the solar-powered laptop and no Internet connection", and to people who still want an isolated stand-alone software package, you can run the software with Internet access turned off. (It's becoming more and more difficult to maintain this functionality, but we'll try to keep it as long as we can.)
Whilst I agree with the sentiment that we should have the ability to opt out of our data being collected, I'm much more concerned about the direction of making Logos REQUIRE the internet.
My concern here is to ensure that everything I have already purchased continues to be accessible unimpeded even if access to Logos servers was permanently unavailable. It's concerning that you'll only TRY to maintain the ability to run without internet access. What I fear is an increasing reliance on an internet connection to Logos encroaching into the existing core functionality such that features we already enjoy and rely upon are increasingly 'enhanced' by an internet connection.
What happens if one is traveling without internet for a few weeks? Or working in a country with unreliable coverage? Or, my biggest fear of all, what happens if Logos the company, ceases to exist?
I would want to be sure that Logos s/w is happy to run without any further connection to Logos servers, i.e that it doesn't continually attempt to access the internet and become slowed down by network timeouts, that it doesn't pop up nag screens to tell me how much better my life would be if it could access Logos over the internet, etc.
If it truly does become impossible to 'maintain this functionality' then I would like to see the change postponed until a new major release of Logos so that those who share this concern can stick with the old release free from the risk.
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The Sky Is Falling !!! ...THE SKY IS FALLING !!!
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