Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos
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Now if we don't subscribe the new features we get will not be updated? So what about previous features will they not be upgraded to? If you offer a feature set to be sold at launch it doesn't seem ethical to not update it. I have to be reading this wrong.
They have said that bug fixes will be issued to everyone. Thus, if features are purchased, then updates that pertain to allowing those features to work as they were intended to work will be issued. This is different than a feature being improved or expanded upon. Such updates have never been given out for free. Rather, they have been included in the next batch of feature set purchases. I anticipate this would be the path going forward. Subscribers, however, would be issued these feature improvements immediately. For purchasers, however, I'm not sure that much would change from how it is today, as even now users must wait 2 years for the next set of feature upgrades.
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1.I have 10 full features and still can't translate Greek to English; will that ever be fixed?
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will you be able maintain my permanent license (updates) properly or will it wane away..
3Will it be possible to subscribe and at the same time keep permanent licence,
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You said about what i was thinking. I think the antichrist is behind AI and yes satan will be glad to help out with our Bible study.
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I knew a pastor who thought the same thing about personal computers.
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Specially after the selling of logos to a secular owner.
When did this happen? Who owns it now?
Scooter, you need to keep up! Last year a venture capital group bought majority share. Looking at their other investments, looks like they try to nudge smaller companies with promise, for success. Being 'secular' or 'greedy' depends ... more like Bob finally got rewarded for all those years of scrimping.
But it illustrates, that the Logos cheerleaders hopefully don't use the same rationalizing, for their 401 investments. New owners can be good. Can demand better management. And can sell to other new owners. Forever got shorter, last year.
scooter indeed needs to keep up!! Are you allowed to whisper their name here, so I can look at their other investments, as well??
Logos is now a commodity, one egg in a dozen-sized paper mache little box. You have 401's; we in Canada have RRSRs. You never buy too many small cap firms. When they fall, they fall right off the bridge.
I like 'Forever got shorter, last year.' When I was 5, we dropped down into North Dakota + turned left, coming back into Canada on the Macinac Bridge. That bridge felt forever to a 5 year old. And very, very high. When I now picture forever, that's where I am. It felt dangerous, but I knew Dad was a steady hand at the wheel.
A sub allows the owner to have less legal obligation to a participant, I would think, although I am not a lawyer.
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Hi Mark,
Many thanks to you for putting together this very informative post about the changes coming to Logos Bible Software. As with many Logos users I am interested in what all of this means for our experience in using Logos. Over the years, I have paid thousands of dollars for both my Logos library as well as the upgrades to the program over the years. And over those years, we have been told that we will always get to keep our libraries and the tools/features we have purchased.
So, my question regarding this new subscription model is: If we decide to embrace this subscription model, do we still get to permanently keep both the libraries and tools/features we have purchased prior to shifting to a subscription? I am asking this because in your post here, you mention that we would get to keep our libraries, but no mention is made regarding us being able to keep the tools/features we have paid for.
Personally, I would prefer to purchase future feature sets, rather than subscribe for access to features/tools. But, I am willing to try a subscription, even though I am not really keen on AI.
Many thanks, in advance for taking the time to read over this and for replying.
In His grace,
Rev. Eric Burrows-Stone
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Yes! PC, cell phones, credit cards, checking accounts, social security ect. The god of this world owns it all except our relationship and dependance on God. Lets not let him into our prayer closet . It's one thing to have the Bible or Bible software on our devices. It is a different story if AI or god of this world is controlling it; and yes i very well could be mistaken in the case of Logos and very hopeful that i am wrong. I simply feel compeled to wave a cautionary flag to warn folks. God bless and peace
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Says the Antichrist: „[T]he University of Tubingen only the other day requested me to accept the degree of a Doctor of Theology honoris causa“ (in Solovyovs homonymous work)
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So, my question regarding this new subscription model is: If we decide to embrace this subscription model, do we still get to permanently keep both the libraries and tools/features we have purchased prior to shifting to a subscription?
The answer to this question is a firm yes. This has been clearly addressed in this thread, but I'm certainly not going to take the time to sift through every post to find it, nor would I expect you to. This thread is almost getting too long to be helpful anymore.
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This thread is almost getting too long to be helpful anymore.
It might be helpful if Faithlife made a FAQ page with succinct descriptions of their plans (as they are so far, with updates as more decisions are made) and answers to common questions.
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This thread is almost getting too long to be helpful anymore.
It might be helpful if Faithlife made a FAQ page with succinct descriptions of their plans (as they are so far, with updates as more decisions are made) and answers to common questions.
Perhaps they could also do a live Webinar with Q&A that gets archived to the Logos Pro page and linked in the forums.
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AI is only going to become more and more of a thing as time goes on. I am excited to see how Christians can use it to the glory of God.
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AI is going to become more and more of a thing as time goes on. I am excited to see how Christians can use this latest technology to the glory of God.
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AI can have a negative impact or a positive impact depending on how it is used....just like the internet. I am excited to see how Christians will be able to use it for the glory of God.
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AI can have a negative impact or a positive impact depending on how it is used.
And we tend to forget how widely we use it. Facial recognition to unlock our phone, Siri/Alexa voice recognition, even our thermostats to control house temperature ... all these are applications of AI.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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AI can have a negative impact or a positive impact depending on how it is used.
And we tend to forget how widely we use it. Facial recognition to unlock our phone, Siri/Alexa voice recognition, even our thermostats to control house temperature ... all these are applications of AI.
Good point!
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And we use AI to vaccum our house. Does a good job!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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You, or someone, earlier mentioned something about "pre-processing" the query before you hand it off to the search engine. I couldn't find that post so I may well be misquoting or misunderstanding. If however that is the case, and you aren't doing supervised finetuning of the LLM with or without RHLF, then doesn't that mean you'll need to *teach users how to structure queries*, in order to use your hybrid Logos AI? And if that's the case, how is that different from the current structured syntax with various tokens and keywords (other than refinement levels)?
I think I remember that remark, too, but I can't find it now and don't remember exactly what was being said.
As far as I know, we perform minimal preprocessing on the query. Maybe we look for and extract fully-formed Bible references, but that would be it. To the best of my knowledge, no preprocessing is necessary to create and use a vector embedding from a string of text.
Maybe that last paragraph is totally off-base ... again, I'm having to guess. Would you be willing to post a "mini-white-paper" (a gray scrap) to describe your model's flow-chart, so that users might be able to most effectively use it? My apologies if you've already done this and I missed it ... the forum is huge and I don't try to stay abreast of everything.
No, we don't have a whitepaper available for the Smart Search (and if we did produce one, it would become out of date quickly as technology changes). IMO, from a product perspective, if one has to read a white paper in order to use the new search engine, then we have failed. That's the "problem" (from one perspective) with the existing Precise engine: a lot of up-front knowledge is required to use it well. (That's also a great strength from a different perspective: it allows very precise combinations of queries across multiple data sets and a full-text index.)
The goal is that Smart Search returns useful results for the vast majority of queries without our having to "*teach users how to structure queries*". That's also what makes feedback such as "I tried searching for X and the results were poor" useful, as it helps us see where we're missing the mark in terms of delivering an "it just works" experience.
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So, my suggestion to improve that should actually be fairly simple to implement as a single-layer expert-system ... just provide hover-click lists, or dropdown-boxes, etc, for the user to select for BOTH the pre-colon and post-colon entries (sorry, I don't recall the generic terms y'all may have used for these). Ideally, the dropdown or hover lists might even offer a parenthetical phrase after obscure ones to help the user.
A "query builder" is something that we've considered for the Precise Search Engine for many years, and may still be something we investigate more in the future.
https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/search-query-builder
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The thing that is aggravating to me is that the point continues to be hammered by subscription supporters that this is about sustainability for Logos going forward.....
I guess I don't see how features that are being created for the subscription customers and from what it sounds like, will still be a part of the same engine, just activated by license for subscribers and not activated for those who choose not to subscribe.... Leaving non subscribers in the dark for new features.So for me - if the engine is the same, if the feature is activated for those who subscribe, I don't see how difficult it is to not punish those who choose to not subscribe by not offering the ability to purchase a license as has always existed..... If all it takes is having the license for the features, sell the feature sets as is currently - otherwise this is just a stunt to force people to subscribe to have new features - not about the customers nor sustainability....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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So for me - if the engine is the same, if the feature is activated for those who subscribe, I don't see how difficult it is to not punish those who choose to not subscribe by not offering the ability to purchase a license as has always existed.....
The problem is that most of the posts are speculative in the form of "If Logos does X my response will be Y" without concrete knowledge of what features will be subscription only by the fall and without concrete knowledge of what the marketing groupings and cost will be. But Logos specifically wanted to know what we would feel about it (speculation) ... so they can make rational decisions on the marketing. And they have to make their decisions before we can make ours. So we need to remember it is speculation.
My problem with some of the posts is that they seem to equate AI with chatbots which creates unrealistic expectations of the tools and that some speculation on the use of AI is taken as fact. I have reservations regarding the subscription model in terms of gifting some else with my collection. On the other hand, I have faith in the current management based on the belief that Vic was a change management leader who moved Logos from a startup model to a sustainable model. I understand why that includes subscriptions. I do not know and will not speculate how AI platforms will be funded once they reach the basic utility stage. When was the last time you thought about funding the internet infrastructure?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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If all it takes is having the license for the features, sell the feature sets as is currently - otherwise this is just a stunt to force people to subscribe to have new features - not about the customers nor sustainability....
This is exactly right. It has been said too many times that "no one will be forced to subscribe." But the reality is that if feature sets are not offered in the future for purchase, then this statement is very misleading, sugarcoating the reality that everyone who chooses not to subscribe will be left with software that is frozen in time - functional, yes, but never improving. Such users would never have any software enhancements to look forward to. If this is the path that is chosen, people should say it as it is, not trying to sugarcoat it and make it seem like users have genuine options.
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So for me - if the engine is the same, if the feature is activated for those who subscribe, I don't see how difficult it is to not punish those who choose to not subscribe by not offering the ability to purchase a license as has always existed.....
The problem is that most of the posts are speculative in the form of "If Logos does X my response will be Y" without concrete knowledge of what features will be subscription only by the fall and without concrete knowledge of what the marketing groupings and cost will be. But Logos specifically wanted to know what we would feel about it ... so they can make rational decisions on the marketing. And they have to make their decisions before we can make ours. My problem with some of the posts is that they seem to equate AI with chatbots which creates unrealistic expectations of the tools and that some speculation is taken as fact. I have reservations regarding the subscription model in terms of gifting some else with my collection. On the other hand, I have faith in the current management based on the belief that Vic was a change management leader who moved Logos from a startup model to a sustainable model. I understand why that includes subscriptions. I do not know and will not speculate how AI platforms will be funded once they reach the basic utility stage. When was the last time you thought about funding the internet infrastructure?
It's a wise dicission MJ. I like your position.
Blessings in Christ.
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The problem is that most of the posts are speculative in the form of "If Logos does X my response will be Y" without concrete knowledge of what features will be subscription only by the fall and without concrete knowledge of what the marketing groupings and cost will be.
I understand and agree with your main point. However, I'm not sure that these speculative posts are actually a problem. People were asked for their thoughts and opinions while being faced with vague and incomplete information. Responding to incomplete information by providing speculative answers seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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However, I'm not sure that these speculative posts are actually a problem.
I've reworded the post to show that I agree with you as long as their speculative nature is recognized. Thanks for pointing out I could have easily been misunderstood.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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It’s interesting that this article popped up in the news stream tonight. It references a massive study done on subscription based apps (admittedly all are far less robust than Logos), concluding that the subscription paradigm was NOT profitable.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
It’s interesting that this article popped up in the news stream tonight. It references a massive study done on subscription based apps (admittedly all are far less robust than Logos), concluding that the subscription paradigm was NOT profitable.
(remove space after copying to browser)
https://www.revenuecat. com/state-of-subscription-apps-2024/
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
“Frozen in time”nails this point. Imagine, if you will, that this plan was initiated at Logos 7. Today subscribers would be getting Logos 10 (or better) but you would still be at L7. Now consider this as a subscriber L7-10, these many years latter you have to drop the subscription, and now you are back to L7. Let that sink in.
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It’s interesting that this article popped up in the news stream tonight. It references a massive study done on subscription based apps (admittedly all are far less robust than Logos), concluding that the subscription paradigm was NOT profitable.
(remove spaces after copying to browser)
https://www.revenuecat. com/state-of-subscription-apps-2024/
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
It’s interesting that this article popped up in the news stream tonight. It references a massive study done on subscription based apps (admittedly all are far less robust than Logos), concluding that the subscription paradigm was NOT profitable.
(remove spaces after copying to browser)
www. revenuecat. com/ state-of-subscription-apps-2025/
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0
