FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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Ali, I generally like the new look and feel. The categories seem intuitive and it feels "right" in a general sense. I would make a couple of suggestions:
- Others have suggested a collapsible toolbar. I agree. The toolbar is extra screen space taken that may not always be useful. In addition, some of the options are not as commonly used while others might be more beneficial. Could we make the toolbar more customizable so power users can make this toolbar match their needs, while giving the most commonly-used options as default for those users who are less experienced with Logos?
- I would like to see integrations with other Logos tools via the toolbar. Some of these, such as notes and canvas, are already present. Why not have a "documents" tab that functions for any document type? Or a "guides" tab that can be used to start a workflow or open a guide?
Overall, I think this is a great start and look forward to using the toolbar. Keep up the good work, Faithlife!
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For those who want to hide the resource toolbar - vote Resource View: Add setting to deactivate auto hide main navigation bar | Logos
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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It reminds me a little bit of the Ribbon toolbar in Microsoft Office. And that is a very good design. Everything you need to access is there (In Office apps), but you can also minimize or hide it to reclaim screen space.
This feature requires a license.
Am I understanding this correctly? Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?
If the former, I think this is a VERY BAD idea!
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Am I understanding this correctly? Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?
If the former, I think this is a VERY BAD idea!
I was thinking about this the other day. If the community is discussing a workflow or trying to help someone learn how to do something, it will be interesting to see how much confusion there is if there are variations of the basic UI. I get it if a whole tool, resource or database is not present due to a subscription or resource package, but the trying to remember how to do something in two variations of the UI might get interesting over time. Toolbars are a very fundamental reference point in software interaction.
For example, take the inline search discussion. If you have two different approaches to this feature, one in the new UI and another in the old, I can imagine the confusion it will create. Same with links. That is of course unless you keep functional parity between the old UI and the new, and the main benefit of the new UI is the way the user interacts with the software. If this is all that is left, is the differentiation better than the benefit of simplicity in a common UI. The complexity of Logos is something which new users often struggle with when they first come to the programme. Or does the onboarding of new users assumes they will subscribe and therefore not use the free base version of the software with the old UI? What happens when they unsubscribe, but keep their forever access to books and therefore transition to the old UI?
I am sure this has been thought through, but would suggest that however Logos manages this fork in the UI, communication will need to be comprehensive and clear. Common terminology, help documentation and training resources will need to be accurately defined, segmented and kept up to date.
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Favorites added on Mobile aren't showing up on Desktop beta (mac version). Is that expected or a bug? Mobile favorites set on one mobile device (iPhone) are showing on another mobile device (iPad).
I can't edit this post, but ignore it. Figured it out, my bad. Favorites in the resource toolbar were only shown if they applied to that resource, of course. Ive added favorites to the sidebar and that shows everything. That makes sense now.
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For what it's worth, clicking on the categories to the right of the Reference Box (Home, for instance) collapses the bar beneath it.
Now you see it . . .
Now you don't.
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Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?
As of right now, subscribers will see the new Dynamic Toolbar and non-subscribers will see the traditional toolbar. We may make changes to this in the future, but we don’t have concrete information yet.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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The new resource toolbar has made it to the desktop app and is now available for beta testing in version 36 Beta 3!
Generally, ( like the new toolbar. Realizing that it is still a work in progress, I am trying to be patient. However, it has caused a major obstacle to my normal workflow, I have been accustomed to hitting the Tab key and typing number to navigate to a different verse in a Bible text. However, with the new toolbar, this operation has become hit-or-miss. Most often, nothing happens. Sometimes a box appears around the Home button. Then, shift-tab will produce the desired result. Other times…
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I have been accustomed to hitting the Tab key
We have a case created to add this functionality back into the new toolbar. Thank you!
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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As of right now, subscribers will see the new Dynamic Toolbar and non-subscribers will see the traditional toolbar. We may make changes to this in the future, but we don’t have concrete information yet.
And subscribers will have the option to choose to continue using the old one if they prefer?
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I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via SettingsWe noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.
Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?
As of right now, subscribers will see the new Dynamic Toolbar and non-subscribers will see the traditional toolbar. We may make changes to this in the future, but we don’t have concrete information yet.
Maintenance would be just as "massive" if the interface is restricted to subscribers. If it will be withheld from non-subscribers then you may as well have an option for subscribers to switch.
How will you respond to the TOC lag issue in v35, or other issues that will arise with the "non-subscriber" interface? I note that the lag is minimal, but still noticeable, compared to tabs without TOC in the "subscriber" interface.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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- Others have suggested a collapsible toolbar. I agree. The toolbar is extra screen space taken that may not always be useful. In addition, some of the options are not as commonly used while others might be more beneficial. Could we make the toolbar more customizable so power users can make this toolbar match their needs, while giving the most commonly-used options as default for those users who are less experienced with Logos?
Good suggestion!
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I like where this idea is going, but it would be much more efficient to have the toggle for each main item on the right side of the button. This way, you can toggle the current setup features without having to click twice, once to open the menu and twice to toggle the feature.
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The table of contents, favorites, and history are grouped together by the dividing line following history. This causes the user to think of the group as the left sidebar group. However, the styling of history is that of a popup. Shouldn't it also be formatted as a sidebar?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I ran a search which generated results in my NRSV but the step size menu did not update to show the search results option. I had to close and reopen to get the search result option to show.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Just a think about ... "other" is usually the end of a list ... if you've read through the list and not found what you want you check "other". I realize these are in alphabetical order but is that actually best in this case?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The Full Screen button has the same text in it both when I am and when I am not in full screen mode - I would expect the text to toggle between full screen and "previous size"
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings
We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?
As of right now, subscribers will see the new Dynamic Toolbar and non-subscribers will see the traditional toolbar. We may make changes to this in the future, but we don’t have concrete information yet.
Maintenance would be just as "massive" if the interface is restricted to subscribers. If it will be withheld from non-subscribers then you may as well have an option for subscribers to switch.
How will you respond to the TOC lag issue in v35, or other issues that will arise with the "non-subscriber" interface? I note that the lag is minimal, but still noticeable, compared to tabs without TOC in the "subscriber" interface.
That was my thought when I first read the response to my question.... Forcing long time users or "power users" to change their usage to attract new people with "easy" use - is counter productive for the users who kept you in business....
I REALLY hope that they don't force this new toolbar on all users - but decisions like this are why I am not buying anything - I don't want to provide revenue to a company going in a direction I'm not a fan of, as well as messing up the overall experience for me as a long time user.
They (Logos) want to talk about the advances of technology, yet ignore it in relation to something like allowing toolbar options - whether not forcing this new thing on users or even the ability to customize the toolbar(s) to a users workflow - optional and customizable toolbars have been around for how long?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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It wasn't looking quite right on my mac just now. After a couple of clicks it went back to normal.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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Suggested improvement to visual filter navigation:
When navigating to the next selected text of a visual filter, it would be helpful to be able to set an option to:
- go to the next selected text of any filter(s) - the current behavior
- go to the next selected text in the same filter
- go to the next selected text in the same style (i.e. rule and filter match)
Vote at Visual filter navigation | Logos
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I do not like "Find" being orphaned in the panel menu. It belongs in the resource menu.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I was surprised/displeased when the history immediately before the reference box required that I use the active (not grayed out) caret to right click to get the history. I would expect either caret to always give me the history menu.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I would like to see the equivalency function preserved by the creation of shared collections set for parallel resources with titles beginning with EQUIVALENT. It would set the stage for Logos to claim to consider carefully the functionality being removed and how to replicate that functionality going forward.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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When navigating to the next selected text of a visual filter, it would be helpful to be able to set an option to:
- go to the next selected text of any filter(s) - the current behavior
- go to the next selected text in the same filter
- go to the next selected text in the same style (i.e. rule and filter match)
Would you like this change only in the subscription toolbar?
#3 I see the utility of the request, but it would not work if the "rule" was split across two search boxes using the same style e.g. when enumerating place names.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Summary of requests and bug requests to aid in further testing
1. Mac specific:
I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.)
2. Either already present or a request to completely slide under the tab:
Making this a collapsable bar would be nice, like the location bar.
3. Lost features some with extended discussions:
a) Show Inline Search (Ctrl/Cmd-F)
b) Some of the panel copy options - I can see Copy as URL but not HTML, L4, WIKI, RL (I know this has been mentioned in previous feedback in this thread). I remember a discussion about some of these going, are they being deprecated
c) Help features - Help about this feature, discuss this feature, show help card
4. Location of Help
The Help Center function should be up a level - it is needed for all sub-toolbars not just the main one.
5. Interlinear pane data selection location:
I would like to see the selection of elements shown in the interlinear pane changed to be the same method that is used for the inline interlinear.
6. Duration of popup:
Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?
7. Title of "new" popup:
The popup should be changed to read "Click to share your thoughts." No matter how quick I am I cannot click on the underlined here
8. Collapsible notebooks list likely applicable to other lists:
Can we have the option to collapse the set of in-version notebooks so it is easier to get to this second set?
And, as far as I can see, even when the corresponding set is enabled, the icon does not show it and it isn't possible to see / select / deselect the list of included notebooks
9. Reading list support:
Where is the support for reading lists in the copy links function?
10. location of functions:
I'm not sure the location of reading plans makes sense.
....
Separating formatting and view feels confusing because both change what you are seeing. These also tend to be what I change the most. Showing and hiding discourse features or interlinear features etc. I wonder if interlinear belongs with the formatting really?
Ideally I'd like to be able to prioritise a couple of configurations... I like using left and right arrows to switch between Bibles... it would actually make my study easier to be able to switch between 3 different views of the ESV that way too.
11. Copy special:
It was confusing to me that there is now a Copy Special that allows the reference link to be copied as link, plain text or search parameter (a functionality still existing in the context menu under reference), but this appears only in bibles, not in other datatype-indexed books like commentaries or e.g. The Book of Concord. If you still are deciding about that: I like seeing this in the main toolbar, but please leave the button visible all times instead of not showing it - and make it available in all indexed resources. But in the interest of saving space, this is not a must-have if you keep it in the context menu.
12. Menu malfunction:
One small frustration, clicking on Content and Favorites opens and closes the menu as expected. For any other menu to close you have to click outside of the menu somewhere.E.g. I can't just click "History" twice to open and close it.
This will be fixed as part of our polishing work.
13. Tab to reference box
The inability to reach the Navigation Box with a keystroke is going to slow down my sermon prep this week.
Can we get the keyboard shortcut (preferably Tab) back for the Navigation Box, and soon?
The tab key and CMD-G/CTRL-G shortcut will be a part of the polish work we do in the coming weeks.
14. Inline search capabilities return a major issue:
Are there plans to include search fields for inline search?
15. Send to various documents:
Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...?
Word Lists, Visual Filters and Bibliographies will be added to the new Send to menu in the Share tab as part of our polishing work in the coming weeks.
When you create a search result in inline search, go to the Share tab, click the Send to menu and you'll see the option to send to the search panel.
16. Preserve last state of menus:
Please respect the selected / unselected menu state of the resource when closed.
17. Morph attribute selection menu error:
I was experimenting with using morph searches in the new inline search and noted that the picker doesn't update the search string as you choose morph options
18. Option to retain static resource panel menu:
I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings
We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.
19. Add keyboard shortcuts often mentioned in connection with other features:
Please add shortcuts. As a non-English speaking user, the translation panel is my daily (!) companion and it would be nice to be able to open and close it as quickly as possible.
20. Customizable and other enhancements:
- ...Could we make the toolbar more customizable so power users can make this toolbar match their needs, while giving the most commonly-used options as default for those users who are less experienced with Logos?
- I would like to see integrations with other Logos tools via the toolbar. Some of these, such as notes and canvas, are already present. Why not have a "documents" tab that functions for any document type? Or a "guides" tab that can be used to start a workflow or open a guide?
21. Updating navigation unit delayed:
I ran a search which generated results in my NRSV but the step size menu did not update to show the search results option. I had to close and reopen to get the search result option to show.
22. Location of "other" option on media:
Just a think about ... "other" is usually the end of a list ... if you've read through the list and not found what you want you check "other". I realize these are in alphabetical order but is that actually best in this case?
23. Full screen option name does not toggle:
The Full Screen button has the same text in it both when I am and when I am not in full screen mode - I would expect the text to toggle between full screen and "previous size"
24. Visual filter navigation enhancement:
Suggested improvement to visual filter navigation:
When navigating to the next selected text of a visual filter, it would be helpful to be able to set an option to:
- go to the next selected text of any filter(s) - the current behavior
- go to the next selected text in the same filter
- go to the next selected text in the same style (i.e. rule and filter match)
25. Location of Find:
I do not like "Find" being orphaned in the panel menu. It belongs in the resource menu.
26. Limitation of right-click history display:
I was surprised/displeased when the history immediately before the reference box required that I use the active (not grayed out) caret to right click to get the history. I would expect either caret to always give me the history menu.
27. Equivalent function retention via collections:
I would like to see the equivalency function preserved by the creation of shared collections set for parallel resources with titles beginning with EQUIVALENT. It would set the stage for Logos to claim to consider carefully the functionality being removed and how to replicate that functionality going forward.
Added:
28. Behavior of New flag;
The New option with its link to provide feedback disappears in a narrow pane rather than slipping under more or shorting the option list to retain its position.
29. History menu not usable:
This bug directly affects the usability of the Resource panel toolbar -->Home --> History menu and Resource panel toolbar --> right click History menu. No difference in values is visible.
30. Emphasis menu working correctly?:
Is the Emphasis menu truly dynamic? I can't get the corresponding words to work. As any enhancement it would be useful to have a current Factbook entry following the Current dictionary entry.
31. Multi-page parallel resource menu:
When using the parallel resources menu, when there are two pages, changing the page closes the menu and requires an re-open to show the requested page.
32. Return Help card:
Please return the Help card ... it is very useful in teaching application where one needs a sentence or two of explanation not a 5 minute video or 2 minute reading break.
33. Navigation of inline search results:
I find the new Inline search more complicated than before. For instance I don't see the usual up and down arrows to look at the results
34. Factbook tag failure:
not only is there no factbook tag option, but when one tries to add Factbook tags the option and the value appear to work but they don't create the Factbook tag.
I'll use this to remember what to test in the next iteration - just thought a few others might find it useful.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Summary of requests and bug requests to aid in further testing
Logos should pay you for your great work.
👁️ 👁️
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The New option with its link to provide feedback disappears in a narrow pane rather than slipping under more or shorting the option list to retain its position. Note this is on a Logos supplied layout.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This bug directly affects the usability of the Resource panel toolbar -->Home --> History menu and Resource panel toolbar --> right click History menu. No difference in values is visible.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Is the Emphasis menu truly dynamic? I can't get the corresponding words to work. As any enhancement it would be useful to have a current Factbook entry following the Current dictionary entry.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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When using the parallel resources menu, when there are two pages, changing the page closes the menu and requires an re-open to show the requested page.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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