NEW FEATURE: Bible Study Builder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315042#Comment_1315042

Does the selection of resources questions come from respect prioritization? Does it exclude books in the cloud?

Mark Barnes (Logos)

Does the selection of resources questions come from respect prioritization? Does it exclude books in the cloud?

It does not currently respect prioritization. For a given range, it might be that your highest prioritized Bible Study happens to have one question on a passage, whereas other books have many questions. For that reason, we currently order by the number of questions found. We are interested in more feedback on this, though.

BSB includes Cloud resources.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315123#Comment_1315123

For that reason, we currently order by the number of questions found.

Unfortunately for me, that in effect means two resources that I am rarely interested in are almost always first. I have no interest in questions of the type that asks how the student reacts in the situation - although I am interested in similar questions when visualizing the original setting. I'd rather have 1 useful question than 40 I can imagine using.

Mark Smith

Is there a list of the books that have been indexed for the question database?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315145#Comment_1315145

The question database refers to a different function - sentence related; the answer database Andrew provided a screen shot because the documentation was not released; the questions for BSB in theory are anything that (a) have a Bible index and (b) has an input field. Unfortunately, Kyle and I found that is not true this afternoon. Some books are structured so the questions lack the milestones - Kyle is adding these books to his work queue. I don't know the details to find these but I just found some Utley books fall into that category. I've spent about 7 hours today tracking down the problems as I had provided Phil Gons a file of nearly 2000 potential sources a couple of years ago. I've not done a good job of keeping that particular coding up because Logos was taking over the function, for the most part.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315149#Comment_1315149

The question database refers to a different function - sentence related; the answer database Andrew provided a screen shot because the documentation was not released; the questions for BSB in theory are anything that (a) have a Bible index and (b) has an input field. Unfortunately, Kyle and I found that is not true this afternoon. Some books are structured so the questions lack the milestones - Kyle is adding these books to his work queue. I don't know the details to find these but I just found some Utley books fall into that category. I've spent about 7 hours today tracking down the problems as I had provided Phil Gons a file of nearly 2000 potential sources a couple of years ago. I've not done a good job of keeping that particular coding up because Logos was taking over the function, for the most part.

Understand. Having a list somewhere would allow others to discover books that are not indexed.

Very nice tool!

BUG #1: I tried it on 1Sam 20:1-42. Under LessonMAKER, the different types of questions are all listed together. They should be listed under different collapsible subheadings such as Open It, Explore It, Get It, Apply It. Other resources provide the subheadings in the BSB.

BUG #2: I entered John 3:16. The several resources in the BSB that are labeled "John" should say "John - DIY Jn", "John -- HNTC Jn" etc.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315150#Comment_1315150

Understand. Having a list somewhere would allow others to discover books that are not indexed.

Maybe we can get a list out of Kyle ... it would certainly help us help him.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315154#Comment_1315154

The concept is really cool, and I think it will be a valuable part of my workflow in a few iterations, but the implementation has a lot of quirks.

Not being able to drag and drop questions is clunky, and not being able to right-click blocks in the editor to delete them is bizarre. I also don't understand why it doesn't have the full-text editing capability of the sermon editor (no highlighting or changing text color). Dragging and dropping text into the Bible Study makes it a response to the question instead of something like a clipping. I would want it to at least take prioritization into account with some weighting, if not following it strictly. Maybe even a thumbs up/thumbs down button where we can train it to prioritize certain series within the specific tool.

Stephan Thelen

It would be great I you could combine this tool with the translation tool!

Ali Pope

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315154#Comment_1315154

Not being able to drag and drop questions is clunky,

Are you referring to dragging/dropping a question from the sidebar into the Bible Study? Or dragging/dropping (reordering) question blocks within the Bible Study?

Dragging and dropping text into the Bible Study makes it a response to the question instead of something like a clipping.

What text are you dragging and dropping into the Bible Study?

Thank you for the other pieces of feedback. We're tracking all of your suggestions and will consider them for future iterations.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315145#Comment_1315145

Is there a list of the books that have been indexed for the question database?

I can provide something like that. Right now there are about 1000 resources so it might be distributed as a publicly available Google doc.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315216#Comment_1315216

I can provide something like that. Right now there are about 1000 resources so it might be distributed as a publicly available Google doc.

That would be fine.

Garrell Calton

Ali, thanks for this update.

This first bullet should be stated at the top, otherwise users go straight to Logos and start searching for this feature, only to get frustrated not finding it.

This feature requires a license to access it. Please join this Faithlife group if you'd like to participate in testing Bible Study Builder.

But for our new members to Logos you have skipped several steps for more visual learners. Simply type in a Bible reference Where? Where does one type this? Seems obvious but new Logos users may not know where to click to start typing.

Thanks for your help.

Ali Pope

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315230#Comment_1315230

This feature requires a license to access it. Please join this Faithlife group if you'd like to participate in testing Bible Study Builder.

But for our new members to Logos you have skipped several steps for more visual learners. Simply type in a Bible reference Where? Where does one type this? Seems obvious but new Logos users may not know where to click to start typing.

Thanks for your suggestions, Garrell. I've updated my post to reflect them.

Ali Pope

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315151#Comment_1315151

BUG #1: I tried it on 1Sam 20:1-42. Under LessonMAKER, the different types of questions are all listed together. They should be listed under different collapsible subheadings such as Open It, Explore It, Get It, Apply It. Other resources provide the subheadings in the BSB.

BUG #2: I entered John 3:16. The several resources in the BSB that are labeled "John" should say "John - DIY Jn", "John -- HNTC Jn" etc.

These aren't technically bugs, though they are great suggestions. I've noted them (as I have with all other suggestions) for future iterations.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315243#Comment_1315243

Thanks Ali. I personally find it hard to use now, with the large number of uncategorized questions from the (excellent) LessonMAKER resource, and with the several undistinguished set of John questions.

The former can be worked around by clicking on the LessonMAKER link and opening the resource itself. The latter can be worked around by a mouse hover, so I understand these are not high priority issues.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315261#Comment_1315261

Let us know what you think about the Bible Study Builder in the comments below!

Since I did not follow these directions which were posted later than my initial reactions, here are the "out of place" comments:

I must be missing something obvious:

How do I remove a question or "block" item on the right side of the BSB? I don't seem to find a "Delete" option anywhere...

Mark Barnes (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1316056#Comment_1316056

I must be missing something obvious:

How do I remove a question or "block" item on the right side of the BSB? I don't seem to find a "Delete" option anywhere...

We've had that feedback from others, and we're going to make it easier. Right now, treat the question as if it were a paragraph in Microsoft Word. That is, selected the question and note text, and press delete on your keyboard. If you're left with an empty question, press delete again.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1316063#Comment_1316063

A few other irritations as I have tried to use this tool. I think it is the best example of a great idea with counter-intuitive execution since the fuzzy Bible search. Hopefully it will similarly improve over time.

1.) As others have mentioned, the delete behavior is poorly designed. At minimum, I should be able to right-click and delete or add a block.
2.) I understand from a business perspective why the Sermon Builder and Bible Study Builder are separate since they are in separate tiers. However, the inability to create slides or even paste images into the Bible Study builder is a serious problem. The Bible Study builder should be available as a standalone tool like it is now, but it should also be incorporated into the questions section of the sermon builder so we can create notes, handouts, and slides in one tool.
3.) Copying and pasting content from a book creates two blocks, one for the quote and one for the citation. That's dumb. It should create one block with the citation built-in or; even better, create a footnote block at the bottom where I can also see what resources the questions came from. I should also be able to highlight a block of text and drag it straight to the Bible Study builder without copying and pasting.
4.) As I mentioned earlier, it is also not intuitive to click the arrow to send a question from the question list to the document and then drag it where I want it. I should be able to pull it straight from the list of questions to a particular place in the document and have it create the block there.
5.) The Bible study tool should have a manager like the sermon editor so that you can find ones you have worked on recently and attach dates to them. Someone leading a small group has a schedule and may want to work ahead. Without the ability to assign and interact with metadata, you have to resort to unwieldy things like putting dates in the file name.
6.) Bible study content is not indexed for docs searching. That's a huge wasted opportunity. The whole point of Logos is having all of your content accessible and interconnected.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1317132#Comment_1317132

As others have mentioned, the delete behavior is poorly designed. At minimum, I should be able to right-click and delete or add a block.

I should be able to pull it straight from the list of questions to a particular place in the document and have it create the block there.

Easier delete and drag/drop are both coming, but it's unlikely they'll make v37.

Bible study content is not indexed for docs searching.

This will be fixed. I'm not sure whether it will make v37 or have to wait for v38.

Thanks for the other suggestions. Some of them were things we discussed internally and guessed might be useful to some. Others are new ideas. We're keen to hear of all suggestions for improvement. Subscription allows us to improve tools over time, and we plan to do that with Bible Study Builder.

Hans van den Herik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1317534#Comment_1317534

Mark,

The concept behind the Bible Study Tool (building blocks, adding headers etc.) is very promising for making extensive annotations for Bible Study / Preparation of Lectures. I hope we will see something like this in the (near) future!

Hans

Dave Couch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1317577#Comment_1317577

I've been using the Bible Study Builder for a few weeks, and found it to be useful. I'll probably move my old Bible study writing workflow across.

There are a couple of things that would be nice to have:

Use of templates. Similar to a sermon, I have categories of questions I use each time. For the moment I have set up a Bible Study called template that I copy and paste.
The ability to add subquestions. I have a question then might want to follow up afterwards. Being able to nest questions under others would make that work easier. Currently I add them as a note under the question.

Excited to see where this goes!

PS - will there be a nicer way of viewing the finished documents on a mobile device? Currently opening in edit mode means the text is small and potential to overwrite things is high!

Dru Lattin

I love the concept, and plan to use it!

Major red flag: Most of the questions come from published works (not AI), yet I can't find any citations for the questions. It seems like this new tool is not merely enabling plagiarism, but actively encouraging it, and making it difficult to avoid.

Am I missing something?

If not, is there any way footnotes with sources could be added to the bottom? There's such an epidemic of plagiarism in Biblical study and sermons, I'd love to see Logos pushing back!

Dru Lattin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1318128#Comment_1318128

I love the concept, and plan to use it!

Major red flag: Most of the questions come from published works (not AI), yet I can't find any citations for the questions. It seems like this new tool is not merely enabling plagiarism, but actively encouraging it, and making it difficult to avoid.

Am I missing something?

If not, is there any way footnotes with sources could be added to the bottom? There's such an epidemic of plagiarism in Biblical study and sermons, I'd love to see Logos pushing back!

One example of how this can be done: When I copy and paste from a commentary or Scripture into the BSB, it includes citation. Why not include this in questions? Again, I think it'd be better as an endnote, but it'd be a start.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1318128#Comment_1318128

Major red flag: Most of the questions come from published works (not AI), yet I can't find any citations for the questions. It seems like this new tool is not merely enabling plagiarism, but actively encouraging it, and making it difficult to avoid.

M.J. had posted similar concerns but no response yet from Logos.

Dru Lattin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1318138#Comment_1318138

Major red flag: Most of the questions come from published works (not AI), yet I can't find any citations for the questions. It seems like this new tool is not merely enabling plagiarism, but actively encouraging it, and making it difficult to avoid.

M.J. had posted similar concerns but no response yet from Logos.

Thanks! I've followed up on that thread as well.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1318120#Comment_1318120

PS - will there be a nicer way of viewing the finished documents on a mobile device? Currently opening in edit mode means the text is small and potential to overwrite things is high!

documents.logos.com now lets you view Bible studies.

Chris Heil

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1315216#Comment_1315216

Is there a list of the books that have been indexed for the question database?

I can provide something like that. Right now there are about 1000 resources so it might be distributed as a publicly available Google doc.

Has the document with the list of 1000 resources indexed for use with the Bible Study Builder been made available? Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1321286#Comment_1321286

Here is a list of the Logos resources included in the Bible Study Builder dataset. It currently sits at 1052 resources.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BR-y2nTRhWMQWDAkQ79yvYWDX2p7cQj5ZQru6Yqqw0A/edit?gid=0#gid=0

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1321462#Comment_1321462

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BR-y2nTRhWMQWDAkQ79yvYWDX2p7cQj5ZQru6Yqqw0A/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Antony Brennan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1321473#Comment_1321473

#bsblist

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1321462#Comment_1321462

Here is a list of the Logos resources included in the Bible Study Builder dataset. It currently sits at 1052 resources.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BR-y2nTRhWMQWDAkQ79yvYWDX2p7cQj5ZQru6Yqqw0A/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Thank you Kyle I sent you a few more suggestions via chat if interested

Bill

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1321462#Comment_1321462

Hi Kyle, Thanks for the list. I didn't see this one on there.

LLS:DAILYBBLRD04
2014-10-15T21:50:32Z
DAILYBBLRD04.logos4

Is it possible to add it? It looks like it would fall in the required criteria.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323369#Comment_1323369

Hi Kyle, Thanks for the list. I didn't see this one on there.

LLS:DAILYBBLRD04
2014-10-15T21:50:32Z
DAILYBBLRD04.logos4

Is it possible to add it? It looks like it would fall in the required criteria.

Looks like a great candidate. I added it to our list we're working through.

Bill

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323390#Comment_1323390

I added it to our list we're working through.

Thank you Kyle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1318128#Comment_1318128

Major red flag: Most of the questions come from published works (not AI), yet I can't find an

To use the expression "Generate Questions" with the AI icon implies to the user that generative AI is being used to create questions. This is a misleading description of what the tool is doing. In fact, the tool appears to be harvesting questions from various Logos resources. Perhaps "Search for Questions" would be a more accurate description.

Suggestions:

If a particular question is generated by a generative AI tool, this should be distinguished from questions that are harvested by a search. Perhaps AI icon that Logos uses elsewhere could be used. Alternatively, the AI generated questions could be grouped as a separate "source" from those that come from a resource.
Suggestion: If the questions come from a source, it would be helpful to be able to click on a question and view the original source. Context often matters.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323459#Comment_1323459

Major red flag: Most of the questions come from published works (not AI), yet I can't find an

To use the expression "Generate Questions" with the AI icon implies to the user that generative AI is being used to create questions. This is a misleading description of what the tool is doing. In fact, the tool appears to be harvesting questions from various Logos resources. Perhaps "Search for Questions" would be a more accurate description.

Suggestions:

If a particular question is generated by a generative AI tool, this should be distinguished from questions that are harvested by a search. Perhaps AI icon that Logos uses elsewhere could be used. Alternatively, the AI generated questions could be grouped as a separate "source" from those that come from a resource.

Suggestion: If the questions come from a source, it would be helpful to be able to click on a question and view the original source. Context often matters.

Are you sure? I think the generated questions are AI and the ones above that are the ones from resources. If you click the name of the book, it opens up to show the context.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323555#Comment_1323555

Are you sure? I think the generated questions are AI and the ones above that are the ones from resources. If you click the name of the book, it opens up to show the context.

Thanks for pointing that out. I saw the "Generate" button and when I clicked on it and bunch of questions appeared. So, I assumed that all of the questions were generated by AI based on the books listed. I now see now that the first few batches of questions are taken from the listed sources and then there is a batch of questions generated by AI. So, I withdraw my first suggestion, since it seems Logos already does this.

Perhaps it would be clearer what is happening if the AI Generate button were on the panel toolbar, since the button disappears quickly as the list of questions is populated from the resources.

I would still like to see my second suggestion implemented. I would like to be able to click on a quote and see it in the source in context.

I am sorry for being hasty in my comment.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323562#Comment_1323562

I would still like to see my second suggestion implemented. I would like to be able to click on a quote and see it in the source in context.

click on the title of the question and your wishes are implemented.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323565#Comment_1323565

click on the title of the question and your wishes are implemented.

That is interesting. I see that clicking on the blue text goes to the section of the original resource.

This raises the question of why the tool picks certain questions and skips others. For example, if I use 1 Corinthians 13:4, my first resource is Bible Study Questions (formerly called Adult Questions for LESSONmaker). The list of questions skips the first question in this resource, then it picks the second question and paraphrases the third question. Then it skips the next 11 questions and then grabs the remaining questions in the passage.

If I create a new Bible Study with the same verse, I get a different set of questions from the same resource. It still skips some questions, but they are different questions that it skipped the last time.

Even though this is not generative AI, it still acts like an AI in its unpredictability.

I'm still trying to figure out this tool.

Thanks for your help.

Matt Doebler

Possible BUG in Bible Study Builder?

Once I get down to the bottom of the Bible Study Builder window, the blank space no longer automatically populates. I am forced to either 1) type all new content at the very bottom of the window or 2) Hit the ENTER key a bunch of times so that I can input new content in what feels like a more natural way near the top/middle of the window.

David Vela (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323678#Comment_1323678

Not technically a bug, but thank you for reporting it, Matt! I'll create a case for the team to consider adding extra space at the bottom of the document.

Stephan Thelen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323928#Comment_1323928

I'm honest: I didn't read the whole thread, but I used this tool today for the first time to prepare our bible study group in the evening. Here are my remarks:

It would be desirable if questions were easier to add (e.g. at the end with + symbol or with shortcuts)
Bullet points in the notes
It is difficult to delete a block again. Why is there no right-click or three-point menu?
A color design would help to better differentiate the individual blocks in the lecture (see sermon tool)
It would be nice if the tab key were supported in a more meaningful way, e.g. indenting the notes
I can't find any help in the Help Center under the German term Kleingruppen-Tool or under Bible Study.
When I enter a verse, it is inserted as a Bible text that starts with the passage. Why is my entry not deleted? Otherwise it is always there twice!
Why can't I find my notes in the Bible passage assistant when I call up the passage?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323567#Comment_1323567

click on the title of the question and your wishes are implemented.

That is interesting. I see that clicking on the blue text goes to the section of the original resource.

This raises the question of why the tool picks certain questions and skips others. For example, if I use 1 Corinthians 13:4, my first resource is Bible Study Questions (formerly called Adult Questions for LESSONmaker). The list of questions skips the first question in this resource, then it picks the second question and paraphrases the third question. Then it skips the next 11 questions and then grabs the remaining questions in the passage.

If I create a new Bible Study with the same verse, I get a different set of questions from the same resource. It still skips some questions, but they are different questions that it skipped the last time.

Even though this is not generative AI, it still acts like an AI in its unpredictability.

I'm still trying to figure out this tool.

Thanks for your help.

I'm not fully following your repro steps.

Here's how things are happening for me:

Run Bible Study Builder on 1 Corinthians 13:4
Open drop down for Bible Study Questions so a list of about 16 questions appear.
The first three questions I see are the first three questions from the "Open It" section of "Love-1 Corinthians 13:1-13".
The next question I see is "What qualities does love have?", the fifth question from "Explore It". The first four questions from the "Explore It" section are omitted because the parenthetical verses in the questions suggest they're about verses other than 1 Corinthians 13:4.

I suspect I'm following different steps than you are. If you could provide more information about how you're using the feature we could better assist you.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1324393#Comment_1324393

Here's how things are happening for me:

Run Bible Study Builder on 1 Corinthians 13:4

Open drop down for Bible Study Questions so a list of about 16 questions appear.

The first three questions I see are the first three questions from the "Open It" section of "Love-1 Corinthians 13:1-13".

The next question I see is "What qualities does love have?", the fifth question from "Explore It". The first four questions from the "Explore It" section are omitted because the parenthetical verses in the questions suggest they're about verses other than 1 Corinthians 13:4.

I suspect I'm following different steps than you are. If you could provide more information about how you're using the feature we could better assist you.

I tried running Bible Study Builder again on 1 Corinthian 13:4. I expanded the questions from Bible Study Questions resource. The first question in the resource is skipped ("What to you is an unmistakable demonstration of love?"). This is a different result than I got when I ran the tool previously. This time it skipped the first question from the "Open It" section of the resource, whereas last time it included all 3 questions from this section of the resource. This time it included question 5 from the Explore It section, I assume because it is tagged 1 Corinthians 4-8. However, last time it omitted this question.

So, the results are different this time than they were the last time. I am not sure why it is inconsistent.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1324418#Comment_1324418

So, the results are different this time than they were the last time. I am not sure why it is inconsistent.

A random thought worth eliminating, at either time you were running the Bible Study Builder, was your library indexing? I don't know the ins and outs of this tool and indexing possible relationship to it but just had he thought as I was going to try and test the scenario then thought, hey my library is currently indexing, and the result might be impacted.