FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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Don't neglect the implementation of 'Command+G' (probably Ctrl+G Win) to focus and select the resource reference box.
It's probably a pending housekeeping item, but I'll remind anyway.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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The tab key and CMD-G/CTRL-G shortcut will be a part of the polish work we do in the coming weeks.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Frank Sauer said:
I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings
We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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As a teacher who uses Logos with students, I think this will make teaching Logos much easier. Aesthetically, I prefer the old model, but this is a clear leap forward in functionality.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Are there plans to include search fields for inline search? I was hoping to search the gloss field of HALOT from the new toolbar but it only has the sentence/paragraph/article options.
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Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...? This is also functionality that is very useful when you are working in a text centric way...
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Gregory Lawhorn said:
What I find to be a problem is that the Tab key (in a Bible pane) no longer goes to the Navigation Box to allow a quick jump to another reference. It may not be an issue for some, but it runs headlong into my workflow every few minutes.
I agree this is a major frustration!
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I am increasingly trying to use keyboard actions as opposed to taking my hands off to use a mouse. +1 to tabbing. Would love for it to drop to the search box when it is open as well.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...?
Word Lists, Visual Filters and Bibliographies will be added to the new Send to menu in the Share tab as part of our polishing work in the coming weeks.
When you create a search result in inline search, go to the Share tab, click the Send to menu and you'll see the option to send to the search panel.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Ali Pope said:
We have removed the HTML, L4, RL, and WIKI copy functionality due to the low amount of usage they were getting. Aside from this, we haven't removed any other functionality. If you see something missing, please let us know.
I just commented on another thread. If after many years this is the end of L4 linking, this 'new' feature has just broke a tonne of links in my research with no notice. I think there are others who have used this as well. Can this be reconsidered?
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Donovan R. Palmer said:Ali Pope said:
We have removed the HTML, L4, RL, and WIKI copy functionality due to the low amount of usage they were getting. Aside from this, we haven't removed any other functionality. If you see something missing, please let us know.
I just commented on another thread. If after many years this is the end of L4 linking, this 'new' feature has just broke a tonne of links in my research with no notice. I think there are others who have used this as well. Can this be reconsidered?
To be clear, existing L4 links will work just fine. We have no plans or intention to break existing L4 links.
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Graham Criddle said:
This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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It seems that Jonathan is referring to the macOS Menu Bar, which appears at the very top of (just about) all apps on the Mac. It lokks like this:
And yes, Jonathan, it is a capital idea. If the macOS application standards allow an application-specific menu item, such as 'Resource', it could display all the allowable choices for the acrtive panel. For many users, it might be faster. Moreover, macOS alows user-created keyboard shortcuts (although I have not tried any).
But the greater benefit of this would be for vision-impaired Logos users pn macOS. One of the macOS accessibility features is 'Speak item under pounter', would help here to make using Logos for the vission-impaired marginally less kludgy, since Logos is not at all screenn-reader friendly.
This macOS feature always works with an app's macOS Menu Bar; it is very hit-and-miss (more misses) in the actual Logos interface.
I have followed, over the years, the suggestions of Logos User Sarah Blake LaRose and her pleas for greater Logos compliance with screen-reader technologies in the 'Accessibility' subforum. As far as I know, she has not had a response fro Logos here on the forums.
MJ. Smith said:
rJonathan Huber said:but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you talking about the resource menu/tool bar or the application menu/toolbar? If I take you to mean the former, I don't understand because that is what it currently is doing. If I take you to mean the latter, it makes no sense because the options apply to and show for individual resources.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Ali Pope said:Graham Criddle said:
This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
Is there a reason to remove the functionality? Inline searching has significant advantages over switching to the search panel (the text I want is already there, there are more options for interacting with the text), and it's especially appealing to those of us moving over from Accordance. I would do all of my text searches there. The more you can *add* functionality to inline searching rather than removing it, the better.
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Robert M. Warren said:
It seems that Jonathan is referring to the macOS Menu Bar
Yes, I meant the mac OS menu bar. I don't see why resource-specific actions can't be up there; surely most users interacting with a specific resource would expect selected actions to apply to that resource; the active resource is even marked in the UI. Maybe it doesn't make sense to move everything up to the Menu Bar, but it's definitely under-utilized.
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Graham Criddle said:
2) I'm not getting any Visual Filters shown for the ESV - and I do have some Visual Filters that apply to this translation (is it possible that some background information is being built and this will appear in time?)
I'm unable to reproduce this. The VF documents are showing up as expected for me. I'll have our QA team take a look.
Graham Criddle said:a) Show Inline Search (Ctrl/Cmd-F)
This is a part of the polishing work we'll be doing in the coming weeks.
Graham Criddle said:b) Some of the panel copy options - I can see Copy as URL but not HTML, L4, WIKI, RL (I know this has been mentioned in previous feedback in this thread). I remember a discussion about some of these going, are they being deprecated
Ah, yes! This slipped my mind. Apologies! We did remove HTML, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them. L4 was removed because of other plans we tentatively have for future development. Even though they are removed, any existing L4 links will still continue to work. That being said, we hear you all on the L4 links and are having discussions around this.
Graham Criddle said:c) Help features - Help about this feature, discuss this feature, show help card
For Help about this feature if you click the Help button, it will open the correct help article in the Help Center.
Discuss this feature is planned to come later as a part of the Help Center feature.
And, the Show help card feature, along with the copy links, was intentionally left out since it gets such a low amount of usage. Apologies for missing that piece in my OP.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Ali Pope said:
We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.
I use them all the time. I hope you are not going to discontinue/disable or remove them. They are very helpful to me, and I know there are other users who link to Logos through them.
Below is a forum post regarding how users can use the L4 links via the Alfred App. Logos is somewhat keyboard shortcut poor. The L4 link provides a workaround for that deficiency. These links speed up my workflow immensely.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/186597/1120734.aspx#1120734
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Please respect the selected / unselected menu state of the resource when closed.
Currently, if I click the active option to remove the sub-menu, then close the resource, it is active again when the resource is reopened.
As this new feature uses more real estate, which I prefer more than an occasionally utilised menu, I will have to make quite a few extra clicks each time a layout is opened to close all the sub-menus.
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Ali Pope said:
We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.
Removing features is not an upgrade or an improvement.
Is Logos really wanting feedback? Or will this be like the forced change for the web store where feedback was negative due to inaccurate search counts? Instead of listening to feedback to improve search, Logos just removed that feature users wanted and used.
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Ali Pope said:Graham Criddle said:
This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
This is just extra work/steps. It's much easier to use the inline search within a resource than to open up a new search window and set it appropriately. I would greatly appreciate the old functionality.
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Ali Pope said:Graham Criddle said:
This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
I think you mean "The intent is to force one to use the Search panel instead."
Although I use the inline search infrequently, I use it when I specifically don't want to mess with the open search panel(s) nor create (yet another) search panel. I would expect this change to be poorly received.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ali Pope said:
The tab key and CMD-G/CTRL-G shortcut will be a part of the polish work we do in the coming weeks.
That's great news!
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Ali Pope said:
We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.
This appears to be a "didn't think it through" move - of source WIKI and RL are used rarely but do you really want to make it harder for the users creating the wiki for you to maintain the wiki? Do you really want to make it harder for teachers to build reading list? It is the wiki updaters, the teachers and professors, ... who introduce people to Logos and teach them to use it. And, yes, I would also suggest that HTML supports bloggers. Some "rarely used" features are critical as the basis for other uses and some are rarely used because of Logos lack of support for them (think case frames and semantic roles being removed from the context menu).
And yes, I do still hold a grudge over your removal of the sanctoral cycle support.
Ali Pope said:Show help card feature, along with the copy links, was intentionally left out since it gets such a low amount of usage.
This is partially because Logos did not revise the Help file to provide consistent information from the help file nor do a solid job of keeping the Help file up-to-date and accurate. I did not point others to the Help card because I could not consistently rely on it to give help. I do not think switching people over to the help center is a workable solution. I like the help center, especially for the definition of terms but I often find it unworkable for items where I really need it. Try using it to get information on "Factbook tags" ... because it doesn't recognize the relevant term as "Factbook tags" one gets so much "tags" and so much "Factbook" false positives as to make the Help Center unusable. I fear on providing Help, Logos is abandoning an excellent approach because they failed to re-edit the Help file in light of its new function; they are replacing it with a great idea that fails to work because it ignores the multi-word aspect of many interface element names.
Again, you should expect low usage - even lower if implemented correctly. It should be needed only 2-3 time per function per new user if it actually contains helpful information.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ali Pope said:
Ah, yes! This slipped my mind. Apologies! We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.
Just to be clear, "rarely used" probably means "of great importance to some." This is not a step forward.
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Robert M. Warren said:
menu item, such as 'Resource', it could display all the allowable choices for the acrtve resource
Clarification: My suggestion is to repeat the choices in the Logos interface, not replace them.
Additional thought: The first choice in the 'Resource' mene could be a 'disabled' repetition of the resouce name to enable blind users to hear the selected resource's name. The 'disabled' text of the name would have no action associated with it, but the 'Speak item under poiunter' function would read it aloud.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Ali Pope said:
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
The way it is currently configured, being able to move to the search panel from inline search, is the best of two worlds. I use the inline search with my Bible texts all the time... and in fact, more than the search panel. To be in the Bible text and interact with the text without having to open up another panel, is much faster. At least in my view, this is a HUGE step backwards, adding more friction to our workflows.
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Ali Pope said:
We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.
Are you guys able to tell remotely how much I use L4 linking?
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MJ. Smith said:
This is partially because Logos did not revise the Help file to provide consistent information from the help file nor do a solid job of keeping the Help file up-to-date and accurate. I did not point others to the Help card because I could not consistently rely on it to give help. I do not think switching people over to the help center is a workable solution.
I would also suggest that L4 linking would be used more if it were bi-directional. There is currently no way for me to put a URI link in a Logos Note to another app. Some of us have been asking for some time for this to be considered, so for now, we have lived with partial implementation of system links.
Logos was ahead of its time providing the L4 link facility as it currently is. Now that we have other mainstream apps that can interact this way, it would be a shame to lose this functionality.
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