I've noticed a bug in the forum: when you click on “Last” or the number of the last page (in this post 16) it goes back to page 1. This has happened to me in several posts.

EDITION:
Now that I've posted a comment and it's gone to page 16, the problem has disappeared. It's a bug.

Anderson Abreu said:

Now that I've posted a comment and it's gone to page 16, the problem has disappeared. It's a bug.

I’ve noticed this quite a few times. Seems to me it is when there are a certain number of posts the system starts a new page. for some reason, once in a while, you are not taken to the next new page but, as you say, the beginning of the thread. Then, a few minutes later it seems to have registered there is a new page and lets you navigate to it. 

Visiting a friend and giving them some help with how to use Logos gave me opportunity to use the old toolbar for a few hours with them. I honestly miss it. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.

John Fallahee said:

1) Have keyboard shortcut for each item
2) Allow me to disable the text and see just icons...the menu is quite cluttered
3) After a submenu is clicked have the option for the submenu to disappear after clicking to reclaim the space automatically

You're right. And your three items have already been pointed out by several users since the beginning of this post.

David said:

The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with a single click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes three clicks to turn it on and another three clicks to turn it off and return to the home tab. Six clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy! (...) Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse.

John Goodman said:

I honestly miss it. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.

Every time I use the new Toolbar I can't help but think that whoever is designing it is not an active Logos user who actually uses Logos on a personal and weekly basis for their studies and sermon preparation. The team should have people like that (if they don't) and should listen to the users who have been using the software for years.

The new toolbar is making it difficult to find the things that matter most and are used most often. I'm not getting to like the Toolbar after I activated the beta also on the computer I use daily and was forced to use the bar on a daily basis. If it's kept, there's an urgent need for customization with quick access icons and shortcuts. But it seems that the users who got Logos/Verbum this far aren't being listened to.

Sorry, but that's how I feel at the moment.

We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti

single tab goes to the delete icon instead of it selects the content of the word and we can type an new word. So you have to click more than necessary.

If you want to give us a mouse arm  or an RSI, then stay with this design. Otherwise change it. 

Anderson Abreu said:

I've noticed a bug in the forum: when you click on “Last” or the number of the last page (in this post 16) it goes back to page 1. This has happened to me in several posts.

EDITION:
Now that I've posted a comment and it's gone to page 16, the problem has disappeared. It's a bug.

This is reported here https://community.logos.com/forums/t/225526.aspx. 

I am not qualified to comment on your understanding of klickibunti, but I am qualified to verify with certainty your assessment of the new resource-specific toolbar(s). Your last sentence sums it up well...unfortunately.

Aaron Hamilton said:

One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.

Idem!

Aaron Hamilton said:

One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.

Definitely have no desire to lose that efficiency!

Aaron Hamilton said:

Frank Sauer said:

I see users bemoaning the extra time and "clicks" to do what we already were able to do in an efficient manner....

A quick access, personalizable tab, as Anderson has been pushing for, would, I think, go a long way in solving inefficiency concerns. That would be pretty sweet and could be tweaked by the user based on evolving needs.

That may alleviate some of the issue and may improve the use of Logos for some - that said, keeping a "classic" toolbar option for the "OG" users and users who could care less about "fluff" in their interface would go a long way. Changing the look of icons or colors is one thing - changing the entirety of use for a program that is intended to study the Word is another.... Change for the sake of change or "new" is silly if it causes inefficient use or long time users to have to relearn how to use the program.

As a side note, a lot of comparisons are incorrectly used with Microsoft in relation to the subscription change - so maybe Logos should also look to Microsoft in relation to the toolbar option - they kept the classic available for experienced users for a long time (The option may still be there, but I cannot be sure, as I have not used Word in a few years)

As we get closer to the subscription early discount cutoff date, I must ask, "Are we really stuck with this toolbar?" Having used this subscriber toolbar since the first beta I find the subscriber toolbar may be a reason to cancel the subscription. If non-subscribers keep the better toolbar, I agree with others that this toolbar needs to be optional. The new interface is cumbersome, busy, disorganized, and slow.

If changing the toolbar, can we please have a simple, clean, customizable, easy-to-use toolbar? Also, why is there some kind of fade transition between menu items on the toolbar? Was it not slow enough having to click through the options to find what you're looking for?

I really don't like being negative about this, but Logos asked for feedback. I've tried it. It's not for me. I think it's clunky at best. Subscribers get other features you can choose to use or not use. This is an interface change that, according to this thread, has no choice. The choice is subscribe or don't subscribe. I subscribed very early. Based on this new toolbar, I'm questioning whether I made the wrong choice. Will Logos impose other "downgrades" on its subscribers?

I do want to balance my negative overall thoughts with one positive change. As an Obsidian user for my notes, I was distressed about the initial loss of L4 links (they've been restored in Bibles). Having used the URL links now, I do think the URL solution is better.

New Dynamic Toolbar is a Cluttered Mess!

I understand LOGOS vision to make LOGOS easier to learn. This desire can be clearly seen in the Dynamic toolbar. If you were using LOGOS for the first time, the Dynamic Toolbar might be a good idea. But LOGOS is making ease of use for the first time user a higher priority than functional use on an ongoing basis. 

For example: The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with one click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes EIGHT clicks to turn it on / off and return to the home tab. EIGHT clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy!

Here's another example: To turn on the VISUAL FILTER TAG use to be one click on, one click off.  - Now it takes 8 clicks to do the same thing! Plus the user must remember to go to: FORMATTING/EMPHASIZE/SHOW VISUAL EMPHASIS - just to use this feature. My friend, that is not easier.

Logos has gone BACKWARDS on this new Dynamic Toolbar. The only people who cannot see this are the developers. They may have gotten tunnel vision by focusing so much on the brand new LOGOS user experience - that they have forgotten the majority of their users.

In addition, there is now so much clutter in LOGOS app. It's not clean at all. It's a distracting mess of too many words at the top of every tab.

Please understand that I love new ideas, and I am a big LOGOS user / fan. But IMHO, LOGOS has put form over function when it comes to the Dynamic Toolbar. LOGOS has catered to the first time user, at the expense of the majority of their customers.

Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse. On the flip side, I do really like the new location of "Parallel Books". That is a very nice change. It's clean and it is more intuitive. 

Thanks for asking for feedback and for taking the time to consider this POV.

LOGOS users - please respond or we are going to be STUCK with this poorly "redesigned" Dynamic Toolbar. 

Blessings!

PS: We would still love to have a "Follow Only" option for linked sets. We have been begging for this very simple feature for a very long time. 

Anderson Abreu said:

In practice, "Klickibunti" can be understood as a criticism of a visually exaggerated design that sacrifices usability.

In other words, it is the best term for nearly every YouTube thumbnail I see these days. (Appealing to the lowest common dumb-inator.)

Tim Deahl said:

Way too much clutter! More complicated, redundant than former, simpler, cleaner tool bar!

I'm really surprised that you noticed this.  It is hard to detect ... I'm just guessing that, from the quietness at Faithlife.  Smiling.

The more I look at the Toolbar and use it, the less I like it. Apart from the visual pollution (I'm a visual minimalist), the excessive number of clicks is torture for me. I want to believe that Faithlife's software engineers will have the good sense to leave a customizable choice for advanced users.

This new bar could be activated by default so that new users can already see it as a starting point, but leave the option for advanced users:

1. Have the option of activating a remodeled version of the old toolbar (except “Change Book”, which was excellent).
2. Have the option to hide the toolbar labels/titles, making it visually cleaner.
3. Have the option to set shortcuts for frequently used tools, e.g. interlinear, auto-translation, visual filters, etc.

I want to believe that Faithlife will not ignore the request of the users who brought Logos to what it is today. I want to believe!

Have I mentioned we need more shortcut-keys. 

Especially to start a search. No matter which resource toolbar is active. The right shortcut-key and I can search right away.

Thanks

Frank Sauer said:

I'm hoping that the quietness means that they are in the process of fixing the issue by allowing for users to have a choice of toolbars.

I doubt it... I think its too close to the big event. My guess is that this is what we are stuck with.

I love the new toolbar, more than the old. Less travel time to access features, access to features closer together. I prefer extra clicks rather than having to continually mouse over to the edge of the pane, or the screen to access features. I think it is Fitt's law, relating to software application development, that prefers time efficiency over less clicks.

There is room for more refinement in the design, as people have pointed out, like the ability to activate/deactivate the interlinear feature  more efficiently, but I would not want to go back.  

There is also the people who have a workflow, honed after long use, there's no easy answer for that. 

MJ. Smith said:

it tested well in the lab

I missed the post where this tested well in the lab so I'm missing some key information. Logos did use the forum to ask for feedback. In general, the forum feedback seems more negative than positive.

Currently, those who are using the subscriber toolbar are:
1. Those who support Logos through a subscription
2. Those who are willing to test new features in beta

If you are willing to subscribe and test new features, you are likely more willing to adopt software changes (of course not 100% of people).

From the anecdotal forum response, the core invested Logos user seems to favor the older, simpler non-subscriber toolbar. If some of your most invested and committed Logos users don't like it, why are you doing it? Either scrap it completely or at least give the option of the toolbar that non-subscribers use. The option only removes something that Logos considers a feature benefit.

Will the subscriber toolbar create an incentive for some to subscribe? Perhaps. Will it cause some to want to unsubscribe? In my case, yes. Will it create confusion for new Logos users? Absolutely. If a new user watches tutorial videos, many video tutorials will have to explain the differences in the toolbars and interface. The teacher may even have to record two versions for at least parts of the video: one using the simpler toolbar with fewer clicks and one using the subscriber toolbar.