The new Logos subscriptions have launched
Comments
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Logos tech support made it clear that if you're not subscribed you don't get updates.
Their quote: "A subscription is required to purchase any of our new base package libraries."
I was always worried when the deal would go bad, and now it has. I wonder how long before they take my books away?
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Lance Roberts said:
I wonder how long before they take my books away?
Lance Roberts said:Logos tech support made it clear that if you're not subscribed you don't get updates.
Their quote: "A subscription is required to purchase any of our new base package libraries."
Yes - this is stated on the FAQ page as well
Lance Roberts said:I wonder how long before they take my books away?
As stated on the page above - and in many other places - once we have purchased books we keep them. Why are you concerned about losing them?
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Hi Lance,Lance Roberts said:Logos tech support made it clear that if you're not subscribed you don't get updates.
Their quote: "A subscription is required to purchase any of our new base package libraries."
I was always worried when the deal would go bad, and now it has. I wonder how long before they take my books away?
These questions are addressed in our Subscription FAQ: https://www.logos.com/subscription-faq
While a subscription is required to purchase our new libraries, you'll continue to receive updates:
> "Unlike most software companies, we make our latest software available to everyone. Even if the last feature set you bought was Logos 4 in 2009 (or even version 1 in 1992!), you’ll continue to receive free app updates, ensuring you can keep using Logos anytime you change computers or upgrade your operating system. You’ll continue to receive bug fixes for free, too. But you won’t get access to the powerful new and improved features offered in the subscription version of Logos."
And your books are yours to keep!
> "You aren’t required to subscribe to keep access to content or features you already own. The subscription is for anyone who wants access to the latest version of Logos which will get new features or improvements roughly every six weeks.If you’ve already purchased Logos packages or feature sets, those are yours to keep—you won’t lose them. You’ll continue to be able to use the features you’ve paid for, regardless of whether you subscribe to the latest version."
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Celeste Fiorillo said:
Aaron - Anyone who was migrated to a lower cost subscription had additional time applied to their new subscription, for example you may have had 10 months left in your early access annual subscription, but we would have given you 13 months of the new subscription because of the lower price (there were a lot of different price and timing combinations, so this is just an example). We appreciate the patience of the early access subscribers as we know the migration and pro-ration logic was a bit complex.
Celeste,
Thank you for the thorough explanation to me and others. I see now that you all were on top of it and I had it wrong. I had a phone call just yesterday where a lot of the numbers/dates surprised me. Initially, I thought I had remembered things wrong. Now I see you were working diligently behind the scenes to make it all add up. Thank you. I stand corrected.
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Natalie Winburn (Logos) said:
2. Also, yes! The additional 5% off perk is really special and does in fact stack on top of other discounts like Academic or other promotional sales.
Natalie, since the 5% off perk was already active for the Early Adopters, was it supposed to stack on top of the new library 30% off offer, if so I'm not seeing it? If not, will it be on future Library sales?
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Graham: Amazon has been known to yank back books that customers have bought. It's a thing. Any company that would refuse to update my software because I haven't subscribed, even though I've always paid for my upgrades over the last 20 or so years can't really be trusted. I saw that with Quicken.
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Lance Roberts said:
Amazon has been known to yank back books that customers have bought. It's a thing.
That last happened in 2012 - practice and law has since changed.
Lance Roberts said:Any company that would refuse to update my software
Fortunately, this is not what Faithlife is doing - the free version will continue to be updated. However, most companies that don't offer a free version, do quit updating your software as soon as you drop your subscription or fail to purchase the new version.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Tes said:
how do we get the free books?
I'd like to know as well. Is it similar to the Logos Now/Faithlife Connect list or different?
Dr. Nathan Parker
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MJ - I don't have any free version. I have version 10 and have paid 5 figures for all my upgrades and books over the last two decades. I've also bought Logos for others, some of who can't possibly afford a subscription. Subscription is a bad model for software.
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Lance Roberts said:
I don't have any free version. I have version 10 and have paid 5 figures
You will continue to have the features you have bought as will those for whom you have purchased Logos have the features you've bought for them.
Lance Roberts said:Subscription is a bad model for software.
It is, however, a common model that is spreading. I am not surprised as software matures, new features become less attractive.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I wish that I would or could be as jacked up as you are about this new release..... I have just over the last year gone through most if not all of the training .... only to open it up today and find nothing ... that even remotely looks like what I've become accustomed to.
I know that what I want is available but now I have to search.... now I've got to putz around and try to figure out how to do the things that I was just beginning to do rather fluently.
as an example... to be able to change bibles with the parallel lines... where is it... to link books???
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Hi Bill
I get that it's frustrating to re-learn things you've only just learned! But I hope you quickly get to grips with the new features and layout.
To change Bible, you now just simply click on the Bible cover image and select the version you want.
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I expect a lot of people like myself aren't wild about the subscription option. My guess is a bunch of us will end up doing a two year purchase to get a "Legacy fallback license" out of concerns about where things are headed if we don't.
I do understand what a lot of software companies do subscription products. I happily use some software on a subscription basis. But with something that is essentially a feature rich reader I don't grasp why Logos didn't offer an option to those of use who really do not want a Bible software that depends on a subscription. Especially when Logos has extra options for revenue like books that most applications do not have.
It would be pretty simple to:
1. Offer a package of updates every year for a fixed price as in the past. My guess is the two year requirement for a fallback license is supposed to mimic this.
2. Also offer subscriptions for people who want online and AI based features.
3. Continue to make revenue of book sales.
Logos has many revenue streams and it seems like they are doing the 2 year "fallback license" to mimic the past paid upgrades. But the direction of Logos effectively requiring a subscription going forward is honestly a scary direction. It seems very easy to accommodate all customers with something like what I detailed above. I do wish Logos the best but honestly feel like a business centric not customer centric decision was made. While that is Logos' choice as a profit driven company, given we are dealing with Bible software and many of us have spent a lot of money in Logos to use it for work and personal devotion it would be great to have more customer friendly options.
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Samuel said:
I expect a lot of people like myself aren't wild about the subscription option. My guess is a bunch of us will end up doing a two year purchase to get a "Legacy fallback license" out of concerns about where things are headed if we don't.
...
Logos has many revenue streams and it seems like they are doing the 2 year "fallback license" to mimic the past paid upgrades. But the direction of Logos effectively requiring a subscription going forward is honestly a scary direction. It seems very easy to accommodate all customers with something like what I detailed above. I do wish Logos the best but honestly feel like a business centric not customer centric decision was made. While that is Logos' choice as a profit driven company, given we are dealing with Bible software and many of us have spent a lot of money in Logos to use it for work and personal devotion it would be great to have more customer friendly options.
Is there something about the fallback license that doesn't fully address and serve the same need as the previous upgrade cycles? Prior to this the upgrades were roughly every 2 years not annually. I was also apprehensive when the subscription model was announced, but the fallback license is the hybrid solution many wanted including myself. You keep all the features and books. You only lose the AI features (if you stop subscribing) which some consider a plus. I treat it the same as buying the Logos 10 full feature upgrade previously.
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Samuel said:
I expect a lot of people like myself aren't wild about the subscription option. My guess is a bunch of us will end up doing a two year purchase to get a "Legacy fallback license" out of concerns about where things are headed if we don't.
On the other hand, Logos might be motivated to do something to keep subscribers. They may not even know what, yet, but they are likely to try pretty hard.
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Dave Colclough said:
Natalie, since the 5% off perk was already active for the Early Adopters, was it supposed to stack on top of the new library 30% off offer, if so I'm not seeing it? If not, will it be on future Library sales?
The discount was 25% + the 5%.
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Lance Roberts said:
MJ - I don't have any free version. I have version 10 and have paid 5 figures for all my upgrades and books over the last two decades. I've also bought Logos for others, some of who can't possibly afford a subscription. Subscription is a bad model for software.
The FAQ includes these questions:
Will I lose my features, books, or investment in Logos?
No! Your investment in Logos is safe. You’ll always be able to access your content in Logos for free.
You aren’t required to subscribe to keep access to content or features you already own. The subscription is for anyone who wants access to the latest version of Logos which will get new features or improvements roughly every six weeks.
If you’ve already purchased Logos packages or feature sets, those are yours to keep—you won’t lose them. You’ll continue to be able to use the features you’ve paid for, regardless of whether you subscribe to the latest version.
Do I have to subscribe to keep access to Logos?
No, you won’t be forced to subscribe to Logos.
Unlike most software companies, we make our latest software available to everyone. Even if the last feature set you bought was Logos 4 in 2009 (or even version 1 in 1992!), you’ll continue to receive free app updates, ensuring you can keep using Logos anytime you change computers or upgrade your operating system. You’ll continue to receive bug fixes for free, too. But you won’t get access to the powerful new and improved features offered in the subscription version of Logos.
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Michael said:Samuel said:
I expect a lot of people like myself aren't wild about the subscription option. My guess is a bunch of us will end up doing a two year purchase to get a "Legacy fallback license" out of concerns about where things are headed if we don't.
...
Logos has many revenue streams and it seems like they are doing the 2 year "fallback license" to mimic the past paid upgrades. But the direction of Logos effectively requiring a subscription going forward is honestly a scary direction. It seems very easy to accommodate all customers with something like what I detailed above. I do wish Logos the best but honestly feel like a business centric not customer centric decision was made. While that is Logos' choice as a profit driven company, given we are dealing with Bible software and many of us have spent a lot of money in Logos to use it for work and personal devotion it would be great to have more customer friendly options.
Is there something about the fallback license that doesn't fully address and serve the same need as the previous upgrade cycles? Prior to this the upgrades were roughly every 2 years not annually. I was also apprehensive when the subscription model was announced, but the fallback license is the hybrid solution many wanted including myself. You keep all the features and books. You only lose the AI features (if you stop subscribing) which some consider a plus. I treat it the same as buying the Logos 10 full feature upgrade previously.
There's a big difference between the prior feature upgrades and what falls under the legacy fallback license. With the prior feature upgrades, all features included in the upgrades were announced upfront and known upfront. But with the legacy fallback license, you don't know upfront everything you'll get that's included under the license. So it becomes a financial gamble as to whether or not you'll even want those features, as they later become known and available, after you've already begun to subscribe and have ultimately subscribed for 2 years later on. That's why I refuse to subscribe.
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Jeff Rodrigues said:
There's a big difference between the prior feature upgrades and what falls under the legacy fallback license. With the prior feature upgrades, all features included in the upgrades were announced upfront and known upfront. But with the legacy fallback license, you don't know upfront everything you'll get that's included under the license. So it becomes a financial gamble as to whether or not you'll even want those features, as they later become known and available, after you've already begun to subscribe and have ultimately subscribed for 2 years later on. That's why I refuse to subscribe.
There is a big difference between the prior upgrades and the legacy fallback license, but it's not what you think.
The big difference is that the Legacy Fallback License will get you FOUR years' worth of new features (assuming you own L10), rather than the TWO years you usually get.
You already know exactly what features we've been building for the last two years. The AI/Cloud features won't be included in LFL, but the rest will. So, while there is a "gamble" with the additional features we will add to LFL over the next two years, the LFL features we've already delivered means it's not much of a gamble. It's a bonus on top of an already great deal.
In summary, for about the price of a typical "own forever" featureset, you'll get:
- Now:
- Two years' worth of new features, already included in LFL.
- Over the next two years
- Access to the AI features.
- Access to everything we add to the subscription.
- More features added to LFL.
- A 5% discount and a 5% rebate on all your purchases.
- More perks
I think that's better value than anything we've offered before.
Like every upgrade, it's your choice. But think of it this way. If, two years ago we'd offered you not just Logos 10 (a known quantity), but thrown in a future "Logos 11" for very little extra, would you have taken it? Because that's a good parallel to what LFL offers.
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Feedback for an additional perk: Could you consider offering free access to one of Lexham Press' titles each month that we can access for the month (then swap it out for a different title each month)? If we want to keep permanent access to it, maybe also offer it at an additional sale discount to subscribers.
There's some smaller Lexham Press titles that I would likely only read once (like stuff I read on Everand or checkout from Libby). Having a rotating access to one those titles I could read each month would make the subscription useful.
Dr. Nathan Parker
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Michael said:
Is there something about the fallback license that doesn't fully address and serve the same need as the previous upgrade cycles? Prior to this the upgrades were roughly every 2 years not annually. I was also apprehensive when the subscription model was announced, but the fallback license is the hybrid solution many wanted including myself. You keep all the features and books. You only lose the AI features (if you stop subscribing) which some consider a plus. I treat it the same as buying the Logos 10 full feature upgrade previously.
Besides the points others have raised I think the biggest issue is that this comes across as an accommodation for all of us who do not want a subscription product. The word "legacy" communicates a lot in the software world as I have discussed on another thread. And for all we know this is an attempt to keep those of us who are very unsettled with the new direction (and concerned about the goals of the new owners) before Logos goes to a more full subscription and SAAS model. Words like legacy do not give any confidence that Logos intends to give you the option to continue owning the software in the future once it has transitioned the business model. In short, it feels like a business tactic to get the "no subscription" folks to subscribe with the hope enough will stay subscribed that it will work out better in the end for Logos. It doesn't feel like there is any solid commitment to the people who want that kind of product.
And while I understand the argument that you get four years of updates now, that argument only works once and assumes there will even be an option in the future to "own" the software. It seems very clear that Logos is choosing a path where the non-subscriber will become a legacy customer. Which is sad and I honestly do wonder if Bob would have done this. This plus the new ownership raises enough concerns that it makes me a bit sad to have so much invested in Logos. Not to mention there are no other viable options fo Bible software now that Accordance has been sold and isn't doing well.
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Greetings, Mark.
In a prior post you mentioned that the Help Center would not be included in the LFL.
Is the below what you are referring to? If correct, can you explain why? I understand AI features being excluded as they are a continual cost to Logos. But this? Seems strange. If so, please reconsider. I do find this useful rather than having to hunt on the website. Last, it would be nice if we could start getting a list of what WILL be included in the Legacy Fallback License. Thanks for any additional clarity.
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Samuel said:
Words like legacy do not give any confidence that Logos intends to give you the option to continue owning the software in the future once it has transitioned the business model.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but I want to clarify in case there's a misunderstanding.
From a software/features perspective, we have now transitioned to what you might call a freemium subscription model and moved away from a perpetual license model. That is, the Logos software continues to be free to download, but premium features are only available by subscription. It's no longer possible to buy premium features outright.
Nonetheless, many of our users already own many of those premium features. They won’t lose features they already own just because they’re not a subscriber. All Logos users can continue to use features and books that they’ve purchased in the past. You won’t lose those features or books you already own just because you don’t subscribe or because you cancel your subscription.
(We occasionally remove old features from the software if they’re no longer helpful. For example, this year, we removed Community Notes, Handout Documents, and Faithlife Assistant. That happens only rarely, and if so, it would affect all users, including subscribers.)
So, to be clear: buying features is no longer possible, but owning features hasn't gone away.
Samuel said:In short, it feels like a business tactic to get the "no subscription" folks to subscribe with the hope enough will stay subscribed that it will work out better in the end for Logos.
We always try to make decisions that are good for our business and good for customers. We can't separate those two things. The business needs enthusiastic customers, and customers need a thriving business. The idea of the Legacy Fallback License (which was first suggested by customers on this very forum, by the way) is to try to combine the best of traditional and subscription licensing in a way that works well for both the business and customers.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
From a software/features perspective, we have now transitioned to what you might call a freemium subscription model and moved away from a perpetual license model. That is, the Logos software continues to be free to download, but premium features are only available by subscription. It's no longer possible to buy premium features outright.
Mark, I really like the "freemium subscription model" terminology. I've had a few conversations with friends of mine about this very thing with Logos. I'm going to tell them this later today. Also, I am truly encouraged by reading your responses to many people's posts; the grace you show is amazing.
Have a wonderful day!
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but I want to clarify in case there's a misunderstanding.
From a software/features perspective, we have now transitioned to what you might call a freemium subscription model and moved away from a perpetual license model. That is, the Logos software continues to be free to download, but premium features are only available by subscription. It's no longer possible to buy premium features outright.
This clarification is helpful and makes it clear that my concerns are in fact real. Given how much I've invested and how much of my daily Scripture workflow I've moved to Logos for work and devotion it makes me sad but I understand. I still think Logos could have won a lot of customers over with a hybrid model like I proposed but I'm not in the software business so I assume Logos' owners thought this would be most profitable.
I've honestly wished for years that we could get a version of Logos without the online features because I'm often on airplanes and in countries where I don't want Logos traffic to Logos servers but that option clearly was dropped a long time ago. While I understand the awesome abilities AI can open, in my use case a non-online product I pay for is actually the better product. And I suspect there are a lot of similar customers Logos could have won over.
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:The idea of the Legacy Fallback License (which was first suggested by customers on this very forum, by the way) is to try to combine the best of traditional and subscription licensing in a way that works well for both the business and customers.
Yes, but it sounds like this, like I said, an accommodation to convert everyone to the new model. So it works this one time but past this point it sounds like those of us who want a traditional license and may not want to subscribe to keep features going forward will have to accept a legacy product stuck at a point in time (yes I understand the updates to keep it usable). For example the entire UI in the new Logos changes only if you have a subscription so I can only image how stuck in time the "legacy" people will become over time. I understand it, but I will honestly stop recommending Logos to students because they have to decide if they want a permanent subscription to keep any real features.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Jeff Rodrigues said:
There's a big difference between the prior feature upgrades and what falls under the legacy fallback license. With the prior feature upgrades, all features included in the upgrades were announced upfront and known upfront. But with the legacy fallback license, you don't know upfront everything you'll get that's included under the license. So it becomes a financial gamble as to whether or not you'll even want those features, as they later become known and available, after you've already begun to subscribe and have ultimately subscribed for 2 years later on. That's why I refuse to subscribe.
There is a big difference between the prior upgrades and the legacy fallback license, but it's not what you think.
The big difference is that the Legacy Fallback License will get you FOUR years' worth of new features (assuming you own L10), rather than the TWO years you usually get.
You already know exactly what features we've been building for the last two years. The AI/Cloud features won't be included in LFL, but the rest will. So, while there is a "gamble" with the additional features we will add to LFL over the next two years, the LFL features we've already delivered means it's not much of a gamble. It's a bonus on top of an already great deal.
In summary, for about the price of a typical "own forever" featureset, you'll get:
- Now:
- Two years' worth of new features, already included in LFL.
- Over the next two years
- Access to the AI features.
- Access to everything we add to the subscription.
- More features added to LFL.
- A 5% discount and a 5% rebate on all your purchases.
- More perks
I think that's better value than anything we've offered before.
Like every upgrade, it's your choice. But think of it this way. If, two years ago we'd offered you not just Logos 10 (a known quantity), but thrown in a future "Logos 11" for very little extra, would you have taken it? Because that's a good parallel to what LFL offers.
As long as everything included in the Legacy Fallback License isn't known now, then no way am I committing to a subscription, not knowing in advance what I'm paying for. Absolutely no way. And as for the other features in the subscription, that's a non-consideration for me because I don't want them.
The added features in the license isn't a bonus for me or value to me if I don't specifically know in advance all that I'll get and all I'm paying for in advance, not knowing if I'll want those features, like I knew what I was specifically getting in the prior feature upgrades when they were available. No way. That's a non-negotiable.
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<deleted>
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Jerry Bush said:
Some, but not all, of your questions seem to be seeded with negative connotations toward Logos.
I, personally, don't see what you are seeing. I went back and reviewed his most recent posts and don't see anything negative or condescending of Logos. Do you have any specific posts in mind?
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Rick said:Jerry Bush said:
Some, but not all, of your questions seem to be seeded with negative connotations toward Logos.
I, personally, don't see what you are seeing. I went back and reviewed his most recent posts and don't see anything negative or condescending of Logos. Do you have any specific posts in mind?
Same here - I saw a long time Logos user asking sincere questions and giving feedback.... That post should honestly be removed, as it is an unfounded insinuation/attack on Nathan's motive and character based on personal "feelings"
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Jerry Bush said:
I've been debating how I should word this.
Nathan Parker has raised questions in this thread and other threads as well after a period of inactivity. He has been a long-time Logos user for sure but something seems off to me.
Nathan, you work for Accordance. Some, but not all, of your questions seem to be seeded with negative connotations toward Logos. I am not accusing you of this, but at times it FEELS like you are trying to subtly trying to make Logos look bad to the advantage of the company that pays you. Even if you still use Logos personally, it would seem ethical to not post anything that is questioning your competition.If I am reading this wrong, I am willing to be corrected.
Not accusing but very much insinuating based not on fact, but on your personal feelings.... This comment seems to be seeded with negative connotations toward Nathan and trying to subtly disparage his character and ethics.... (Applying your own standards used in the post)
Did you even take the route of contacting him personally to share your concern or just go straight to this public statement?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Was just testing a URL to the fact book. Works pretty good!
https://ref.ly/logos4/Factbook?id=ref%3abible%2bnkjv.61.18.15-61.18.200 -
Samuel said:
I've honestly wished for years that we could get a version of Logos without the online features because I'm often on airplanes and in countries where I don't want Logos traffic to Logos servers but that option clearly was dropped a long time ago.
You still can. Download the latest version of the Logos Desktop application. In Program Settings, set "Use Internet" to "No".
Yes, this will prevent you from using Smart Search; due to its AI technology, it has to run on our servers and is not something we can make available for download as an offline feature. But the vast majority of features (including old ones, such as resources, notes & highlights, precise search, Passage Guide, etc. as well as new ones such Bible Study Builder with the exception of AI question generation) will work offline.
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Frank Sauer said:
Not accusing but very much insinuating based not on fact, but on your personal feelings.... This comment seems to be seeded with negative connotations toward Nathan and trying to subtly disparage his character and ethics.... (Applying your own standards used in the post)
Did you even take the route of contacting him personally to share your concern or just go straight to this public statement?
I tried to reply to this twice now... here goes a third. I was wrong to not contact him first, regardless of my observations and past experiences. I will refrain from posting this kind of thing in the future, nor will try to justify why I did it.
Also, I reported my own post and asked Logos to delete it since I am unable to do that directly.Sorry to all for hijacking the thread.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Frank Sauer said:Jerry Bush said:
I've been debating how I should word this.
Nathan Parker has raised questions in this thread and other threads as well after a period of inactivity. He has been a long-time Logos user for sure but something seems off to me.
Nathan, you work for Accordance. Some, but not all, of your questions seem to be seeded with negative connotations toward Logos. I am not accusing you of this, but at times it FEELS like you are trying to subtly trying to make Logos look bad to the advantage of the company that pays you. Even if you still use Logos personally, it would seem ethical to not post anything that is questioning your competition.If I am reading this wrong, I am willing to be corrected.
Not accusing but very much insinuating based not on fact, but on your personal feelings.... This comment seems to be seeded with negative connotations toward Nathan and trying to subtly disparage his character and ethics.... (Applying your own standards used in the post)
Did you even take the route of contacting him personally to share your concern or just go straight to this public statement?
I've seen other posts on here where people have made some critical statements against me personally that I have not responded to (some with factually un-true statements), but this time around, I thought it was time to respond.
From what I have seen so far, he has not contacted me personally (and my contact information is out there quite a bit for people to locate). I first saw his posts when checking my email today.
Since the October announcement, I don't see where I have been critical or negative of Logos or unethical in any of my recent posts. If someone can point to a specific example, by all means show me.
I had a few unanswered questions after watching the October announcement video and browsing the website, plus a couple of pieces of feedback (especially since my Wordsearch library merged with Logos, so I had some feedback on the LESSONmaker replacement). About 98% of my questions were answered after watching the video or browsing the website, and so far about 99% of them have been answered in the questions I've asked on the forums or through self-research. Overall most of the information has clear and the website has been loading without issues for me (even over my sub-par Internet which I hope is about to change since we're about to finally get fiber Internet), and I've also been able to receive quick answers to anything that I wasn't sure about. Even when posting questions on here, I've been trying to take extremely cautious measures to keep a neutral tone that reflects me personally as Bible software user and doesn't venture into a negative or critical direction.
Even though I work for "another team", I used both tools extensively in seminary (plus I also used Wordsearch extensively until it merged under Logos). I still have friends at Logos (some which came over from Wordsearch) who I consider to be dear brothers and sisters in Christ and fellow ministry laborers (Logos will also likely carry my forthcoming PhD dissertation once it's published by Wipf&Stock, and I hope that readers are blessed by it).
Dr. Nathan Parker
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Nathan - please see what I wrote above. I was wrong to not contact you first. No excuses.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Jerry Bush said:
Nathan - please see what I wrote above. I was wrong to not contact you first. No excuses.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. Here's my personal direct email in the future should you (or anyone else) need it: parkernathan[at]me[dot]com (replaced bracketed text with punctuation).
Dr. Nathan Parker
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Jerry Bush said:Frank Sauer said:
Not accusing but very much insinuating based not on fact, but on your personal feelings.... This comment seems to be seeded with negative connotations toward Nathan and trying to subtly disparage his character and ethics.... (Applying your own standards used in the post)
Did you even take the route of contacting him personally to share your concern or just go straight to this public statement?
I tried to reply to this twice now... here goes a third. I was wrong to not contact him first, regardless of my observations and past experiences. I will refrain from posting this kind of thing in the future, nor will try to justify why I did it.
Also, I reported my own post and asked Logos to delete it since I am unable to do that directly.Sorry to all for hijacking the thread.
Excellent Jerry!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Nathan Parker said:Jerry Bush said:
Nathan - please see what I wrote above. I was wrong to not contact you first. No excuses.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate it. Here's my personal direct email in the future should you (or anyone else) need it: parkernathan[at]me[dot]com (replaced bracketed text with punctuation).
Nathan -
Thank you for the grace shown to me after I did something that is out of my usual character. Again, I was wrong.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Good morning. Can someone get me a simple answer? I have Logos 10 and have spent around 7-8000$ building my library. Normally, I would just update soft for new features. I do not want to get into another subscrition where I do not own anything. Does it mean I can only use Logos 10 and the library or to move into subscription ?
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Aleksander Dylikowski said:
Good morning. Can someone get me a simple answer? I have Logos 10 and have spent around 7-8000$ building my library. Normally, I would just update soft for new features. I do not want to get into another subscrition where I do not own anything. Does it mean I can only use Logos 10 and the library or to move into subscription ?
Yes Aleksander, that is what it means. You won't lose anything; whatever features you had in Logos 10 you will keep forever. If you do not subscribe, the base engine will still be updated from time to time, but with no new features.
Again, if you don't describe, you will keep what you have now, both in features and the library you have invested in.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Thank you very much. still not clear though:
With the library that I own, I do not need any new library. I have everything ai need. When I moved from Logos 9 to 10, I just updated features for around 100$ or so. This was great value. I think it was 2 years ago. So what does it mean today? If I do not need new books but just want new features that will work with my existing library, what do I do?
just trying to figure out what is the incentive for those like me with close to 10.000$ invested in Logos library?
Jerry Bush said:Aleksander Dylikowski said:Good morning. Can someone get me a simple answer? I have Logos 10 and have spent around 7-8000$ building my library. Normally, I would just update soft for new features. I do not want to get into another subscrition where I do not own anything. Does it mean I can only use Logos 10 and the library or to move into subscription ?
Yes Aleksander, that is what it means. You won't lose anything; whatever features you had in Logos 10 you will keep forever. If you do not subscribe, the base engine will still be updated from time to time, but with no new features.
Again, if you don't describe, you will keep what you have now, both in features and the library you have invested in.
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Aleksander Dylikowski said:
With the library that I own, I do not need any new library. I have everything ai need. When I moved from Logos 9 to 10, I just updated features for around 100$ or so. This was great value. I think it was 2 years ago. So what does it mean today? If I do not need new books but just want new features that will work with my existing library, what do I do?
If you need new features you have to subscribe, but you will also receive some new books (access only). If you own Logos 10 Features, you will be eligible for a discount for a limited time.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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thanks a lot for the answer. Need to dig a bit deeper into it. From the first look this change punishes those most loyal who have invested insane money into owning a library.
Dave Hooton said:Aleksander Dylikowski said:With the library that I own, I do not need any new library. I have everything ai need. When I moved from Logos 9 to 10, I just updated features for around 100$ or so. This was great value. I think it was 2 years ago. So what does it mean today? If I do not need new books but just want new features that will work with my existing library, what do I do?
If you need new features you have to subscribe, but you will also receive some new books (access only). If you own Logos 10 Features, you will be eligible for a discount for a limited time.
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Aleksander Dylikowski said:
thanks a lot for the answer. Need to dig a bit deeper into it. From the first look this change punishes those most loyal who have invested insane money into owning a library.
Dave Hooton said:Aleksander Dylikowski said:With the library that I own, I do not need any new library. I have everything ai need. When I moved from Logos 9 to 10, I just updated features for around 100$ or so. This was great value. I think it was 2 years ago. So what does it mean today? If I do not need new books but just want new features that will work with my existing library, what do I do?
If you need new features you have to subscribe, but you will also receive some new books (access only). If you own Logos 10 Features, you will be eligible for a discount for a limited time.
When you say you’ve updated features for around $100, which feature set did you purchase In the past? I am only asking because I’ve never see a full feature set that low before. I’ll admit that I never looked up the cost of one of the lower tier feature sets before.
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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Jonathan Bradley said:
When you say you’ve updated features for around $100, which feature set did you purchase In the past? I am only asking because I’ve never see a full feature set that low before. I’ll admit that I never looked up the cost of one of the lower tier feature sets before.
I have always done the full feature set upgrades and IIRC it seems like they are usually $150-250. Obviously if you also upgraded to one of the new libraries that always came out it would be quite a bit more.
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Aleksander Dylikowski said:
this change punishes those most loyal who have invested insane money into owning a library
Many of the new features have ongoing expenses for Logos. A subscription is required to make it viable.
As others have suggested, a "purchase" of new features was more than $100... likely closer to $250. You should investigate the "fall back license" for those who subscribe for two years.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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I checked my order history and the full feature set seems to have increased each time. I think that some of it is because they started including more resources that were required to run the new features. I also always purchased during the initial release which allowed for the discounted prices.
Logos 7 full feature: $127.44. Bought in August 25, 2016Logos 8 full feature: $132.21. Bought on Oct 29, 2018
Logos 9 full feature: $186.50. Bought on Oct 26, 2020
Logos 10 full feature: I am not sure what the price was. I bought the full feature upgrade plus the silver package for $248.21. Obviously, dynamic pricing figured into the price and my orders page does not break the price down. It just gives me a total.
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I did check what I have in my case. My past upgrade in 2022 to full feature set with Logos 10 was 180$.
i have invested 6500$ in building my logos library (just checked).what now? Can I do the same and just upgrade features and keep AND OWN FOREVER my 6500$ library?
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Aleksander Dylikowski said:
Can I do the same and just upgrade features and keep AND OWN FOREVER my 6500$ library?
Yes, your library is yours regardless of what features the software you are running has. The upgrade of software and of software are two separate things.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I think you mean software vs. libraries. In any case, the poster’s resources are not in jeopardy
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0
