Official: Why did(n't) you get a Logos subscription?

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?

• Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?

1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
2. No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
3. No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
4. No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
5. No, and I plan not to get it

What's the primary reason for your decision?

Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.

Thanks!

5 - (Though I was willing to give Logos a chance to impress me with the LFL - side note, if the LFL is a one time occurrence - no LFL would be the reason as well)

Primary Reason? As of now, the Dynamic Toolbar - As I've stated in other posts, if I had the option of using the Classic Toolbar, I would give the LFL a chance to impress - without that option, I see nothing worth the loss of efficiency in my use of the program.

(Though I would be interested in the Android Sermon features that finally arrived - I also wonder why a subscription is required for a Feature Parity - I could be wrong, but I do not recall any other OS being required to pay for Feature Parity... That aside, I've gone this long without Logos Sermon tools (Gave up after Sermon File was taken away) and again, the value in paying for Feature Parity vs lost efficiency is not worth it to this user) 

1. I am a current subscriber. I subscribed because that is the direction most software seems to be going. After significant investment in Logos since the late 1990's, I don't want Logos to go out of business like BibleWorks did. I usually paid for Logos upgrades every two years so the subscription with early discount is comparable.

While the new features are interesting, I don't use them that much. I am subscribed despite Logos forcing the new toolbar on me, but the toolbar has me questioning whether I need to unsubscribe. While some like it, but I find it irritating and frustrating. Time with the new toolbar has not helped as I used it through the beta period as well. Please make the toolbar optional or allow some level of customization.

DMB said:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

No, and I plan not to get it

What's the primary reason for your decision?

No need for it, and nothing 'oh wow' for several years now.  Logos 10 works great.  Books are what I enjoy. Frank mentioned the toolbar, and thus I wouldn't even try the 'AI' functions.

I would add, the whole sequence is a bit manipulative ... no free trial if you're a Logos 10 customer, Logos '11' libraries and so forth.  No disagreement, the company is a company.  But the customer is a customer.

You should be able to get one month free.

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?

• Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?

1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
2. No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
3. No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
4. No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
5. No, and I plan not to get it

What's the primary reason for your decision?

Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.

Thanks!

1. Yes, I’m a current subscriber (Pro)

Primary Reasons: A combination of 1) intriguing new features, 2) replacing the large biannual upgrade payments with small monthly payments and 3) the Legacy Fall Back License.

Paul Caneparo said:

You should be able to get one month free.

Yes, should ... but not allowed.

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

• Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?

1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
2. No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
3. No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
4. No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
5. No, and I plan not to get it

What's the primary reason for your decision?

Simply put, my major concern is the loss of features if I have to stop subscribing, and loss of features means a loss in the value of the resources I've purchased.

Yes... as a L10 FFS owner, I qualify for the LFL after two years of uninterrupted subscription, but then what?  What long-term feature benefits will subscribing beyond those first two years provide me unless a new LFL is granted every two years that includes the new features introduced during that time?  I'm also disappointed that with the LFL, one loses online features.  I can see losing high-cost AI features, but it seems like over the years, Faithlife has been growing more dependent on online features, which for me causes the LFL license to lose some of the appeal it would otherwise have even for those first two years.

But my concern also extends to my ability to recommend Logos to potential new customers who won't have any option to own features.  Is the cost of Logos resources really worth it without the features needed to make full use of the resources?

There is one thing I feel in the dark about that might have a bearing on whether or not I will be able to recommend Logos to new users--i.e. what features are included in the basic/free version of Logos that I "assume" will always be available for future customers who have to stop subscribing.  (I "assume" there will always be a basic/free version offered, otherwise library resources would be of zero value.)  Since I don't know what features are included in the basic/free version of Logos, I can't take that into consideration when it comes to evaluating it's value, and recommending Logos to potential/new customers who only have the subscription option.

1. Yes I subscribe but thinking of pulling out. The experience that I have had this year with as a mobile user was not very pleasant. Most of the times when a update is released that fixed some things something else is broken on Logos. I have also been purchasing books that is logos edition that has study guide, with the purpose of the logos edition you should be able to answer the study question, but lately the books I have purchased in a series some of them had the option and then others did not. Then also some books had some Bible Scripture Hyperlinks missing. So not being able to use that function. So at the end paying for things that does not work as intended brings a big frustration in my Bible Study that just lets me keep going back to the normal old fashioned way of reading a physical Bible and book. 

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

• Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?

1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)

• What's the primary reason for your decision?

After beta testing the new tools I wanted to have access to them ongoing. I generally enjoy having the latest greatest in my tech products and bible software. As a person who loves to write about Bible software I also wanted to have access to all the tools to write about them and help others learn how to use them.

Kevin A. Purcell said:

As a person who loves to write about Bible software I also wanted to have access to all the tools to write about them and help others learn how to use them.

I am a subscriber mainly for access to new features, primarily AI summaries.  I’ve used Logos since the 90s and I have a large library and full feature set.  Because of what I already own I found the subscription price to be reasonable.  I went with Max over Pro because I trust that Logos will make the difference worthwhile with upcoming features (as it is today Pro would meet my needs). Also, I wanted to support Logos going forward and continue to see advances and new features.

I'm a current subscriber (Max) and plan to go with the two-year option as soon as it's available. 

Reasons why I'm subscribing: 

• I'm an early adopter, and would feel FOMO if I missed out on the latest and greatest. Not a great reason, but it's the truth. 
• I find the AI features to be genuinely useful, especially Smart Search and summarizing texts. For example, I recently used an AI summary of Walton's lengthy retelling and analysis of creation myths to help communicate the big ideas to my congregation. Smart Search still has a ways to go - we can't search Bibles?????? - but it's still pretty nice. 
• I anticipate more features over the next two years, and want to be locked in for the LFL. It's a bet on Logos actually bringing more features, but one I'm willing to make. The dynamic toolbar and lenses are two examples of features I'm glad to have now, and hope for their improvement in the future. 
• The extra benefits - free book, 10% discount, books included with the subscription, and generous course offerings - make it a value on its own. I'm thankful to be at the place where $10/month (with my discount) is not a major financial commitment.
• I want to make sure Logos continues well into the future, and these tools are available for decades to come, both for me and for many others. 

Reasons for hesitation: 

• Deeply disappointed that folks new to Logos can't purchase a set of essential core features - I'm thinking especially of sermon editor, interlinear, and notes, for example - and be good to go. This makes it hard to encourage others to adopt Logos. The basic engine without a subscription lacks so much, and many folks are loathe to invest their time and resources into something they feel they'll be paying for forever, and never owning. I get it, but I already have talked with would-be new users that can't get over the hurdle. 
• Going from Logos 10 to the not-actually-11-upgrade felt a bit underwhelming to me. Perhaps it's because I'm not using the AI-supported features enough. But if the subscription was just or the software updates, it doesn't feel worth it to me. Yet. 
• Some basic features still haven't materialized, and I worry how the shift to incremental updates that are responsive to subscribers could further deprioritize some developments. 
• I'm concerned about a bait-and-switch. Frankly, I feel Logos's current subscription offerings for FFS owners to be super-generous, a great value....and that concerns me. I worry that we'll face a squeeze after a while: Increased prices, reduced benefits, etc. 

Overall, I'm all in on it! And for me, subscribing is a huge benefit, right now. I worry for those who don't have the FFS or feel like they can't afford the subscription. I'm here for the ride, and hope that this will actually broaden Logos's customer base in the coming years. 

Im really similar to Dru Lattin. I have the same hesitations, but I am a subscriber for similar reasons (Just not so much FOMO).

Lew Worthington said:

I could be wrong, but over time, the allure for FL to focus more on features that justify the subscription model may be hard to resist. 

Agree ... but from a non-subscriber POV .... they'll fix long-standing bugs (eg Text Comparison, Multiview and so on) but only as part of a 'major' fix ... subscribers only.  I'm viewing L10 as WYSIWYG.

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?

• Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?

1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
2. No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
3. No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
4. No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
5. No, and I plan not to get it

What's the primary reason for your decision?

Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.

Thanks!

#5 is my response.  I have not subscribed, and I refuse to subscribe (absolutely no consideration of it at all).  Why?

1.  Faithlife chose to pursue a "get it all or get none of it" approach regarding new offerings, and I'm not happy about that.  As someone who has used Logos software since the late 1990s, and as an owner of the L10 full-feature upgrade, the only thing I would have any consideration of is new features that are not dependent upon a subscription.  The reason why is because I don't want any of the other offerings of a subscription (a.i. functions, rented books, etc.), and I refuse to even give them any consideration.  A legacy fallback license was offered if you subscribe for 2 years.  However, it isn't known in advance as to what ALL of those features are.  I refuse to commit to such a subscription if I don't know all in advance that I'm getting specifically that I'll be able to keep after 2 years.  To me, that's a financial gamble that I will not go along with because of not knowing if I will even want any of those features.  I'm not going to pay for something in advance that I won't know until later on if I truly want it.

2.  Faithlife chose to require a subscription if you want to purchase any of the 2025 bundled library packages.  That's an absolute joke.  I've purchased various previous bronze, silver and gold library package offerings, and now you're requiring a subscription to buy a 2025 library package offering?  Come on Faithlife!  I'm not going along with it.

It would have been wonderful if Faithlife chose to offer both subscriptions and owned feature upgrades separately, allowing each person to choose if they want to purchase either of them or both of them.  But to bundle it all together, require a purchase for it all, and to no longer be able to pay for owned feature upgrades separately?  Sorry, but Faithlife, you lost me on this.

5. No

I'm just a casual user. No libraries, a few features and 134 books. I use Logos to search my Bible, maybe look at Factbook. I have one subscription for $3 per month (aside from internet access & Sky), and that's enough for me. I'm on a pension, so I don't want to spend money on yet another addiction (books), thanks 😊 (but I love reading these forums for free).

I hope it all works out for Logos.

Mike Childs said:

Now that we are farther along in the subscription process, I wonder what % of Logos users are subscribers?  Will Logos disclose that information?

I don't know, but according to X, they have over 25k folks signing up for the subscription so far. 

https://x.com/Logos/status/1856157991172747516

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?

• Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?

1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
2. No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
3. No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
4. No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
5. No, and I plan not to get it

What's the primary reason for your decision?

Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.

Thanks!

I'm a 5: no got, no plans.

I use L 7 days a week.  I highlight, write notes, keep a database on topics of interest.  For this, I have the L8 free version, + it is sufficient.

I am retired.  Beyond cable + phone, I need no other subscription to entangle my wallet.  Food + lodging costs have gone up; this affair necessitates monetary caution.

I am a fiscal conservative.  Riding the lightening of a subscription is not prudent.

1.  I am a subscriber who started in the preview.  I was one of the more vocal ones :

My primary reason for subscribing is to get the 2 year fallback license.

Please listen to all your users and make some concessions on the toolbar.  A simplified one is fine for those who want it but don't wreck the experience of your more advanced and seasoned users.  Workflows are important.  And it's not hard to provide icons for those who want them.

I am a Max subscriber and want to see more advanced tools to study the original languages, not just more books.

I would like to see a growing list of features that will be included with the fallback license.

You have promised a lot and I would like to see you deliver.

I am giving you a chance to win me over.  If I decide it is not worth it after my two years, I won't renew.

Thanks.

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

• Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?

1. Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
2. No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
3. No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
4. No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
5. No, and I plan not to get it

• What's the primary reason for your decision?

5 (no) for the short term; 4 (undecided) for the longer term.

There's little of benefit for me in the sub. (I don't want, need, or trust AI to generate content for me in Logos.)

For the first time ever, I've not bought a base package with this release. Over time I bought 10 base packages in Logos 10 (15 if you count them incrementally), but now I'm excluded.

I am subscribed, but I wish I wasn't. I do not care about the AI junk and will never use it. I thought the rest might be worth the price and in my opinion I was wrong. 

I wish I could just get a refund or just get the new subscription turned off and go back to L10. It was much better.

I know you didn't ask about the 2025 packages so here's a bonus. There have never been packages so sad. They are truly sad. (This includes Logos and Verbum both.) This is my opinion, your mileage may very.

I've been using Libronix/Logos/Verbum for 25+ years and have never been this disappointed.

Tim

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos? No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it

What's the primary reason for your decision?

Several reasons.

Logos wants me to pay a subscription fee which in part includes subscribing to use resources I already own.

This is illegal, immoral and unethical.

Logos is penalizing users who do not subscribe in several different ways.

In the last 2 years I have invested over $ 5 figures $ into Logos resources. Yet today Logos refuses to allow me to purchase any of the 2025 libraries which would allow me to add a few missing resources in my Library. And even if Logos did allow me to purchase them, I would pay a higher price than a subscriber would. This is a carrot and stick approach attempting to force me into paying a subscription fee that was never part of the original deal, rewarding subscribers while punishing traditional customers who simply do not want or need the new "features".

One of the "carrots" Logos added to entice existing users to subscribe is a LFL (Legacy fallback). This is asking investors who have already bought and paid for the software to further finance ongoing development. Yet without any indication as to what new features are being planned. To my knowledge the only new "feature" is not a feature at all, but a redesigning of a portion of the user interface. Judging from user discussion on the forum, a large number of users find the new Toolbar to be a step backwards. In any case, it is not a "new feature", it is a redesign of the user interface which does not add any new functionality. Logos decided to "punish" existing users by forcing them to keep using the "old" toolbar, while "rewarding" subscribers with the new one. I do not think they anticipated how many users would hate the new one. Once this decision caused problems with training and use in the classroom, Logos still stubbornly refuses to allow even the subscribers a choice between the old and the new.

What new "features" am I being asked to pay for?

If this new toolbar is an example of the highest priority of the promised LFL "features", it appears to me that there is not a well thought out roadmap of where the company intends to take the software. Change for the sake of change is not a "new feature". And changes to the interface that add no new functionality is not a "new feature". Maybe the company does have a list of ideas they want to implement ... but they did not bother to show me what it was. So there is no choice but to assume they are making it up as they go. Will the next idea be a good one? We have only past performance as an indicator ... and the toolbar is a bust. A simple option giving the user a choice would eliminate all of the trouble and allow for a smooth transition. Why would Logos be opposed to a smooth transition?

If I do subscribe, it will probably be just to get a discount (grab the carrot), and I will probably unsubscribe immediately. I do find it interesting how many forum members are paying for one or two year subscriptions in advance ... without having the slightest idea what they are buying. That is not justified by anything I have ever read in the Bible.

It is too late in the game for Logos to keep the Desktop program an offline research library, which is what virtually all of their long term loyal customers bought into. Even before sticking the AI junk into it, they were making "features" that were easily implemented offline and locally, and made them internet dependent. In time the desktop app will become totally dependent upon an internet connection just as the mobile apps are now.

If Logos wants my approval, it needs to get rid of the stick. Do not punish your customers, for any reason ... ever. If the carrot is not enough to convince them, leave them alone. Respect their right to make their own purchasing decisions. Do not try to make them second class customers. Great companies (even secular ones) become great by serving their customers better than the competition. Not by manipulating them into buying something they did not ask for.

Focus on making Logos the best software available. I see more effort being put into marketing and planning how to increase profits. A monthly, continual, never-ending re-fleecing of the sheep might be more profitable for the company. But a Bible software company should be concerned with more than raw profit. Did Logos ever do any customer surveys and find out how many of its customers really wanted AI in their Bible software? If not all of them want it, why are they all being asked to pay for it?

I'm a current subscriber but don't see why I need to be. Still not sure what the benefit is of the subscription. I'm losing money but not gaining value. I see that there are now more features, more expansions that must be purchased. I once owned Platinum, while in theory, I still have it, however, when purchasing, it does not reflect. In order to be Platinum today, I need to spend almost $600. So, I may have some Platinum resources, but don't have all the features. 

Why am I paying for the subscription again?

I've been a lifetime user of Logos (Libronix). Still, the former goal of getting to the top tier has been dulled by the goalpost being moved further and further, especially for a missionary in Africa. It's just too expensive at this stage.

John said:

Logos wants me to pay a subscription fee which in part includes subscribing to use resources I already own.

This is illegal, immoral and unethical.

'Illegal' sounds a bit extreme, though lawyer-ing, Faithlife's wiggle-wording hasn't been for naught.  The transition from license ownership to license renting, while claiming not to charge twice ... they essentially got lazy (not dynamic'ing the feature and book rentals). Morals and ethics had to give way to practicalities.  And so 'the discount' ... but L10s only, I think?  Logos 2 thru 9 and plain-jane book buyers ... supposed to just suck it up (tummy).