FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop

Here's my thought process, James.

1. I always looked forward to Logos' biennial upgrades (I've invested heavily, both financially and ministerially, in Logos software since the demise of Bibleworks).
2. For me, a subscription plan (Max, in this case) costs roughly half of what the old upgrade program did, calculated over a two-year period.
3. Logos has always added curve balls and speed bumps to their software, but because they were always included with useful new features every two years, they weren't all that annoying.
4. The "slow motion" nature of their subscription updates makes the annoying stuff (like the dynamic toolbar) seem more useless than it actually is because it is more visible, and because very little else of value was added in version 37.
5. While I was initially both frustrated and angered by this truly ridiculous update, I decided, for my emotional and spiritual well-being, to accept it and find workarounds for it. Keyboard shortcuts, available for the things I use, do the trick.
6. The posting of the shortcuts was intended to help others get on with their lives despite Logos' apparent folly.

Can I set toolbar > formatting > Factbook tags to be OFF by default? (Or any other secondary toolbar options?) I often want to click on a word in order to see corresponding words but don't notice the faint underline.

I've attached a PDF I made of the Windows shortcuts as they are found in the Logos Help File.

I'm surprised by how much I like it. No doubt, there will be a period of getting use to the new-ness of it as I was quite accustomed to the previous layout. Three suggestions:

1. It would be nice to have an icon-only option in the program settings. I think that the text adds to the clutter & the previous text-less (icon-only) interface made the previous iteration of this toolbar feel more usable & less cluttered.
2. When clicking a subcategory (e.g. "Emphasize," "Visual Filters," "Paged View," etc.), it would be nice to have the option of reducing clicks. What I have in mind is an option to click on the word itself, which would toggle the feature as a whole on or off, or a second option to click on the down arrow to toggle specific facets of that menu.
3. Paged View. As an aside, I love that this feature is more accessible. When a parallel text is up, the "Paged View" (why not "Page View"??) feature does not work. It would be fantastic if both panes in the tab functioned as a page view, even if the alignment (understandably) wasn't spot-on.

Yes! please allow special copy in other, indexed resources.

Agreed. The arrows are similar to a Web browser. I use them a lot. The old resource toolbar with arrows and a dropdown for history is more elegant and quicker to use.

Thanks for pointing this out!

Thanks. I wish this option was available throughout the toolbars.

This!!! But…. Sadly, last I heard they will eventually force the new toolbar on all of us…. Hopefully they change their mind on that decision… It would be a better gesture to L10 FFS owners to keep the "Dynamic" Toolbar behind the paywall and not Feature Parity of a feature we already own…

Benedikt, it's 'hidden' under the book cover (left side of menu).

I will post this once again in hope that Logos is listening and looking for true feedback. The dynamic toolbar is too awkward to use efficiently. It was a good attempt at putting things in a more graphic format but it takes too many clicks to get to what you want. I shouldn't have to click a number of times to turn visual filters, interlinear, parallel text, or access my link sets tool. Please find a way to change this so those of us who use the software on a regular basis have tools where we need them and can access quickly and efficiently. To me, the toolbar is extremely awkward. If we could customize the toolbar, that would be beneficial, along with shortcuts to toggle the previously selected setting on and off. At least that would be a work around.

Thanks!

Somehow - more menus/submenus, the need to memorize where everything is, more clicks to achieve the same function and potentially needing to memorize keyboard shortcuts (which may be an issue for those with dexterity limitations) makes a toolbar "Dynamic", easier and more efficient…

It looks nice and is actually quite smooth - but for users who just want to efficiently work, do looks matter more than function?

I hope they are listening and I hope that the toolbar is GREATLY improved to provide EFFICIENT workflow - the question as to whether they act on what they hear is open to debate as of now…. Forcing a feature that is unpopular (based on the feedback on the forums - not sure I remember a more contested feature going back to Libronix days) on all users after telling us it was for subscribers only…. Not sure I take that as listening and acting on customer feedback…. (I know - the argument of the cost to maintain both…. They may need to consider what may be lost in book purchases should users no longer find the ease of workflow that they lose/lost as something to further invest in….

The "Summarize" feature in the tool bar does not apply to every chapter of the Book of Job. Only certain chapters are summarized and chapters not summarized produce the summarization of the previous chapter.

Logos crashed. Relaunched. Secondary toolbars everywhere. 😡 This is not getting more endearing. Need option to hide by default.

In regards to #1 - I believe the most recent "fix"/"announcement" for the "New" is a user will be stuck with it for four weeks…

In regards to #2 - Many of us have been sharing our desire to have a choice - but per my last conversation with a Logos management member, due to cost - they will force the new toolbar on everyone at some point in the future… (Yes, one of the "Subscription Only" features, will be forced on non-subscribers as well….)

It would be interesting to see a list of those features, just for the art of comparison. As of right now there are quite a number of tools that were never added, that unless something changes - new users will never "own" or have access to - without a perpetual subscription…..

Not sure that I remember a Feature as divisively popular/unpopular as the new toolbar either and that is the one they will force on everyone LOL (You're probably also right with the "Dynamic" theme feature… That will probably be included at some point - but those of us who own the Sermon Tools but happen to be Android Users are told oh well - no more Feature Parity without Subscription)

MultiView was the biggie (sub>feature>all). I think. I'm sure they learned their lesson on that one. Translate sort of jumped the gun (feature vs sub).

I think for a successful forced-subscription, FL should ship the bad-designs to non-subscribers. Ship the good ones to subscribers.

Ditto for opening a saved layout. Secondary toolbars everywhere. Again. After closing them from the relaunch. 🤬 Back to whack-a-mole to close them. Again. I probably hate this "feature" of the toolbars as much as the developers seem to like exhibiting it. Annoying.

I try to remember but sometimes crashes and other distractions make me forget. I want an option to force the secondary toolbars to be closed by default for all resources - I will open them when needed. I don't want to depend on my own memory and skills to manually close them.

Thanks. Hopefully I will recall your reminder and save my layouts more consistently. In this case, I cannot remember the states of the secondary toolbars or layout before the crash. Having to keep track is too much mental friction for my old brain. I'll try to press Ctrl+Alt+L after each whack-a-mole session.

Is there any evidence of them listening to the input? I haven't been on here in a bit, busy with life, work, and church, but haven't noticed anything from the company. I would hope they are listening and actively making changes that are forthcoming. I have seen way too many companies invest in a development and then not want to admit it isn't what they thought it would be and leave users with a highly ineffective tool or system. I don't want this for Logos and have invested, what to me, is a considerable amount of money and time in it.

I want them to succeed but I don't think they thought this through well at all. One of a few options: 1) It wasn't properly tested. 2) They had the wrong testers who use the software on a basic level. Keep in mind, I'm not saying I'm advanced or would be a proper tester either, I just know this dynamic toolbar is not good. 3) They didn't listen to the right testers giving them proper feedback. 4) This is all a secondary issue to them and they were just trying to get something out to be included in the subscription levels.

I have seen this same error in camera manufacturers, Point of Sale software, etc. I guess I am the type of person who doesn't mind waiting to purchase product that is well thought out and working in an efficient manner. I am weary of clicks, weary of closing screen or sections of screens/toolbars every time I switch panes.

Since I don't have it, to get used to, my experience is more along the lines of, 'gee, it does THAT?! …. for goodness sakes!.'

Although 'to be honest', my purchasing is fastly dwindling, with the inflating prices of Logos books. So, it's hard to assign causality.

saved layout . this is a bit off topic from your comment.

In a saved layout, I just opened a book I just purchased. Secondary toolbar showing. Read for a while then saved the layout (even though I did not want the new book in the layout), then closed the book.

Later, I opened the book outside the layout . Secondary toolbar showing. I also closed all books and opened the new book from the dashboard. Secondary toolbar showing.

If the only way to prevent this annoying behavior is to include a book in a saved layout, that is a minimal blessing.