FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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It has always been the case that some features that only go to people who upgrade eventually get added to the free engine. I would also be surprised if instant dark mode doesn't eventually become free.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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yes, perhaps the new functionality is "simpler" but it is simpler with a cost: the simple menu has to take up screen space all the time (that's what led me here), we've lost features/functionality (i often used copy as to make links to paste into external docs for instance). i'm not fond of "mode" in user interface, as it makes everything multiple clicks…
is there any way to make it the way it was, to turn this new UI off?
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It would be interesting to see a list of those features, just for the art of comparison. As of right now there are quite a number of tools that were never added, that unless something changes - new users will never "own" or have access to - without a perpetual subscription…..
Not sure that I remember a Feature as divisively popular/unpopular as the new toolbar either and that is the one they will force on everyone LOL (You're probably also right with the "Dynamic" theme feature… That will probably be included at some point - but those of us who own the Sermon Tools but happen to be Android Users are told oh well - no more Feature Parity without Subscription)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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As of now the only way to turn it off - is to not subscribe (and that seems to only be a temporary fix - as it sounds like they will force it on all of us eventually) Hopefully, they will change their mind about this and charging for Feature Parity - but it doesn't sound like it last I heard…. Welcome to the "New Era" (Oh yeah, if you paid for Annual or BiAnnual - no prorated refund to cancel and get back to your preferred and efficient toolbar - again welcome to the "New Era")
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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MultiView was the biggie (sub>feature>all). I think. I'm sure they learned their lesson on that one. Translate sort of jumped the gun (feature vs sub).
I think for a successful forced-subscription, FL should ship the bad-designs to non-subscribers. Ship the good ones to subscribers.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Logos crashed. Relaunched Logos. Secondary toolbars everywhere. 😡 If this irritating behavior was absent my heart would grow fonder of Logos. Please make it go away.
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Ditto for opening a saved layout. Secondary toolbars everywhere. Again. After closing them from the relaunch. 🤬 Back to whack-a-mole to close them. Again. I probably hate this "feature" of the toolbars as much as the developers seem to like exhibiting it. Annoying.
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Are you updating the layout after closing the secondary toolbars? When I do that, they are not returning for me.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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I try to remember but sometimes crashes and other distractions make me forget. I want an option to force the secondary toolbars to be closed by default for all resources - I will open them when needed. I don't want to depend on my own memory and skills to manually close them.
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In past releases, I don't think that we knew which features were going to be added to the free engine until they were actually added, did we?
Regarding the new toolbar being the most unpopular feature to be forced, I was curious and so I did a search on the forums for "don't like new" and found this thread, where users (including you) were skeptical of the UI for Logos 4 for being so much less efficient than Libronix. I know it isn't really the same, but I thought it was kind of cool to see it:Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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I understand. If they are reopening when they were closed in a saved layout, you should post a bug report, because I think that is incorrect.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Even after a few weeks, I still don't think the new toolbar is an improvement. It makes things more cumbersome and takes up unnecessary space. The feature should be optional, the fact that we are asked but our voice falls on deaf ears is very confusing and annoying.
And you won't find any posts from 2009 from me opposing an innovation.
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Thanks. Hopefully I will recall your reminder and save my layouts more consistently. In this case, I cannot remember the states of the secondary toolbars or layout before the crash. Having to keep track is too much mental friction for my old brain. I'll try to press Ctrl+Alt+L after each whack-a-mole session.
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Not sure where I said we knew what would be added to the free engine... Also if my posts there are "skeptical", then I don't know what to say....
This also IIRC is tied to Beta 1 of a massive rewrite of the engine.... Not a supposed "Stable" version that we are talking about in the "New Era".... But... I guess it does speak volumes that the comparison you found ties today's "stable" to such a volatile Beta Version LOL
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Is there any evidence of them listening to the input? I haven't been on here in a bit, busy with life, work, and church, but haven't noticed anything from the company. I would hope they are listening and actively making changes that are forthcoming. I have seen way too many companies invest in a development and then not want to admit it isn't what they thought it would be and leave users with a highly ineffective tool or system. I don't want this for Logos and have invested, what to me, is a considerable amount of money and time in it.
I want them to succeed but I don't think they thought this through well at all. One of a few options: 1) It wasn't properly tested. 2) They had the wrong testers who use the software on a basic level. Keep in mind, I'm not saying I'm advanced or would be a proper tester either, I just know this dynamic toolbar is not good. 3) They didn't listen to the right testers giving them proper feedback. 4) This is all a secondary issue to them and they were just trying to get something out to be included in the subscription levels.
I have seen this same error in camera manufacturers, Point of Sale software, etc. I guess I am the type of person who doesn't mind waiting to purchase product that is well thought out and working in an efficient manner. I am weary of clicks, weary of closing screen or sections of screens/toolbars every time I switch panes.
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I like the new toolbar less every day. I am generally a quick learner, but I hunt peck all over that thing trying to find what used to be in front of me. Probably, we can get used to about any new thing—but that new thing isn't becoming used to.
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Since I don't have it, to get used to, my experience is more along the lines of, 'gee, it does THAT?! …. for goodness sakes!.'
Although 'to be honest', my purchasing is fastly dwindling, with the inflating prices of Logos books. So, it's hard to assign causality.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I do like using the new toolbar. It is simple and easy to use layout as well.
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saved layout . this is a bit off topic from your comment.
In a saved layout, I just opened a book I just purchased. Secondary toolbar showing. Read for a while then saved the layout (even though I did not want the new book in the layout), then closed the book.
Later, I opened the book outside the layout . Secondary toolbar showing. I also closed all books and opened the new book from the dashboard. Secondary toolbar showing.
If the only way to prevent this annoying behavior is to include a book in a saved layout, that is a minimal blessing.
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Yes, they are opening after saving the layout, closing all panels, reopening the layout. I guess the next step is to post a bug report.
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BTW . do you have a link to documentation describing what should happen in this situation?
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Just watched the webinar on ver 39.0 and what is coming in ver 40. Still no mention of fixing the dynamic toolbar. Am I missing something here? I have used it and used it and still abhor the amount of clicks it takes me to get what I need.
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At this point many/most have already voiced their thoughts, so it's just a matter of sitting tight with hope high and fingers crossed.
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I agree with Justin Walker, it would appear LOGOS is not listening to the volume of users who have clearly said, "The 'Dynamic Toolbar' is a total catastrophe." It requires far to many clicks to get common tasks done. It is clumsy, distracting, and highly unproductive. The "Dynamic Toolbar" is a radical step backwards.
My only hope is that LOGOS will listen when enough users cancel their subscription simply because that is the only way to revert back to the original toolbar. What a sad solution.
LOGOS why ask for our opinion (the purpose of this particular blog LOGOS created - now 27 pages of complaints) if you are not going to listen to your customers?3 -
Now, now. Each month Faithlife gives me an extra $10 or so, to not use that awful menu (not counting all the libraries I'm not buying).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Being a non-subscriber, you don't get a vote 🤐 Just kidding. However, the new menu is not awful nor is it perfect. My first reaction was negative but I quickly learned to appreciate what it did well and that, for me, what it does poorly on does not matter. And if we were to remove all the posts of individuals repeating themselves, our perception of the dept of dislike would be radically revised. For myself, I see the merging of options from the task bar and the panel menu as a major improvement that enhances the discoverability of features. In general, I find the compactness of the menu makes it faster for me (I am primarily mouse driven). As for the loss of the toggle capability on the Interlinear and similar features, I suspect that the majority of users are like myself - they set it once per layout and rarely change it. As for statistics for evidence - I have none.
However, I do not equate "Logos has not changed it the way I want" with "Logos isn't listening" - and I withhold judgment on the keyboard shortcut solution to the toggle issue as I rarely use it …okay, I tried it once. I will, admit with a bit of embarrassment, that I have pretty much quit reading the dynamic resource toolbar complaints - it takes a new name in the fray to get my attention. Unfortunately, this means that recent reports of actual bugs or unfortunate design flaws that have been uncovered after people have adjusted to it, have not gotten the attention from me that they deserve,
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I don't recall ever having a 'sleepless night', but I'm sure, I'd have one, if that menu appeared. My gorgeous layout would be devastated. And the visionary nightmares are just too fearsome to even imagine.
More seriously, the problem occurred, when they equated app.logos.com usability (initial test) with desktop usability. By the time they got to the latter, it was too late.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Being quite out-spoken against it (still against it BTW) and having given in to give the LFL a one time chance to keep me as a customer - which was easier knowing that the toolbar would be forced on me eventually anyway, whether I subscribed or not…
I find the following:
Like I have said in the past - the look and feel are well done….
As a user I care less about 'look' and more about efficiency (IMHO, the new toolbar fails in this area)
The missing single click toggles are still frustrating and keyboard shortcuts are a poor 'fix'
The failure of the secondary toolbar to remember it being closed on each resource is very annoying
My concern of having to change my layouts wound up not being as necessary as originally thought
The 'NEW' label/link/button is ridiculous for experienced users or those who know how to navigate the Forums - four weeks is four weeks too long - there needs to be an option to get rid of it without waiting.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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The main Toolbar allows you to select whether you want to display an icon or a resource name. Something like this option would be great for the Resource Toolbar.
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M.J. Smith, if the Resource Toolbar was actually intended to help separate the sheep from the goats, it may be doing a better job than anticipated.
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