Even slower scrolling now ...
New update , now it scrolls even slower. Should i go back to PC to be able to enjoy this great software? because on MAc it is just a PAIN to use, really.....
Will this ever get resolved ?
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Would like to try replicating scrolling experience, please post screenshot or video showing what is slow to scroll.
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all reading windows pretty much no matter how many i have open
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Here's another users who has noticed scrolling slowed down significantly with latest release: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/32529.aspx
Not sure if he's on Mac or Windows, though. He's a newbie so he might not have known the distinction between Logos 4 and Logos 4 Mac forums. (Perhaps the former should be renamed Logos 4 PC?)
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Your scrolling is slower?! At least you have scrolling. My Windows Logos does not scroll in any way, shape, or form. I even bought a top of the line laptop less than a year ago thinking it would enable scrolling. Wrong. This is my only grip with Logos. I posted a thread about it a while back and got some suggestions but nothing helped. Some of us are just out of luck. And frankly, it really gripes me!
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Observation: using a 2007 model iMac (2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo) with 2 Logos users (different libraries), scrolling behaves different for Logos Bible Software 4.2a SR-5 (4.21.5.0959); same application code being used by both Logos users at same time.
One Logos user prefers font scaling. When scrolling up using arrow keys with larger font, noticing hesitation every few verses.
Clearing History seems to improve scrolling speed, as noted in Finally found the Cause for Slow Logos4 Mac
Scrolling down using arrow keys seems better than scrolling up; fewer hesitations.
Appears when using visual filters with larger fonts that scrolling up hesitates a lot (even slower with reverse interlinear displayed at bottom of panel). In contrast, scrolling down is better.
Also noticing some resources scroll slower than others. Seems Reverse Interlinear Bibles and Amplified Bible scroll slower than ASV.
Fritz Reuter said:all reading windows pretty much no matter how many i have open
Please post a screenshot showing most irritating resource for scrolling.
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its on both my macs .!
First is 2.4 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
2gb 667 Mhz DDr2 Sdram
32 bit enabled
My Laptop is the same but
4 GB 1067 Mhz DDR 3 Ram running in 64 bit enabled
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Fritz Reuter said:
its on both my macs .!
What Logos resources do you often use on your Mac(s) that are irritating to scroll ? up or down usually ?
Wiki has http://wiki.logos.com/Screenshot that describes how to capture and post screen shot(s), which would be helpful to see some Logos resource(s) that now scroll slower.
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Both up and down scrolling, It has become really SLOW. seems Up scrolling is worse then down scrolling at times I have gone back to my paper bible for now since flipping pages is so much less frustrating .........
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The more resources, information windows, and guides that you have linked together, the slower scrolling is going to be. Unlink a few of your panels and see if that doesn't speed things up quite a bit.
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Fritz Reuter said:
Both up and down scrolling, It has become really SLOW. seems Up scrolling is worse then down scrolling at times I have gone back to my paper bible for now since flipping pages is so much less frustrating .........
May I suggest closing the History tab? I think I read someone before mention this. Thanks.
“... every day in which I do not
penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture
is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the
firm ground of the Word of God.”0 -
closed the history tab, unlinked the most of the reference books, but no real improvement :-(
appreciate all the help , i keep trying to speed this up , but something is not right ....
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Fritz Reuter said:
closed the history tab, unlinked the most of the reference books, but no real improvement :-(
appreciate all the help , i keep trying to speed this up , but something is not right ....
Wonder if Information panel set to update on click or hover (default) ?
For Exegetical Guide, wonder if Word by Word section collapsed ?
Forum PAINFUL SCROLLING ... has an Exegetical Guide tweak – remove Word by Word section for faster scrolling.
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Fritz Reuter said:
Both up and down scrolling, It has become really SLOW. seems Up scrolling is worse then down scrolling at times I have gone back to my paper bible for now since flipping pages is so much less frustrating .........
Looking at screen shot, appears Bible and Commentaries have font scaled up some (for easier reading), which adversely affects scrolling (Up is worse than Down).
Thank You for posting screen shot; planning to do some scrolling tests with Logos 4.3 Beta.
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yes the scaling is up for my eyes that seem to be getting older :-)
i did not know that this would affect scrolling, but i cant really go back since it is just too small for my eyes , even with my new glasses :-)
thanks for the reply
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i did some quick testing. Even with the smallest scale any selected bible still scrolls very slow , if at all. When i select a stand alone book, for example "Alone with god" , that is not linked to any bible no matter what scale i select, the scrolling works fine .
On my computer it seems, only the bibles are slow scrolling , as well as the associated linked reference texts where as all other books work fine, no matter what size of letters i have selected as long as they are not linked to anything . Hope it helps
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Fritz Reuter said:
yes the scaling is up for my eyes that seem to be getting older :-)
Getting older has its opportunities. Thankful for single vision computer glasses. [8-|]
Fritz Reuter said:i did some quick testing. Even with the smallest scale any selected bible still scrolls very slow , if at all. When i select a stand alone book, for example "Alone with god" , that is not linked to any bible no matter what scale i select, the scrolling works fine .
On my computer it seems, only the bibles are slow scrolling , as well as the associated linked reference texts where as all other books work fine, no matter what size of letters i have selected as long as they are not linked to anything . Hope it helps
Helps = Yes, encountered similar experience.Default 100 % font scale is 2 notches from left (scrolls faster).Wonder about trying American Standard Version (1901 ASV) or Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) for Bible scrolling ? (currently lack reverse interlinear information)
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I will try that thanks.
I must say i am disappointed in this product, and would not buy it again.
When asked by a coworker i told him those exact same words, i would not buy it again.
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Fritz,
I also notice that you have the Passage guide linked to "A" so it's trying to populate a new passage guide as you scroll....that's probably the biggest lag culprit that I see in your screen shot.
Unlinking that would help immensely...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Thanks i tried that , no difference , surprisingly ....There is a problem with scrolling and i am starting to think it has nothing to do with any linking etc. It's a problem , yes so hopefully it gets fixed eventually. ...
Kind of sad because this has been ongoing and has been ignored,so now i open up logos less and less because it just gets to slow to work with .......
thanks for the hint so .....
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Best solution seems to be unlinking everything, turning off all interlinears, disabling all visual filters, closing all other open resources, etc and leaving only a single resource panel open -- yields barely acceptable scrolling. But begs the question of why we have a product like Logos then. If I only want to view a single Bible linked to nothing, etc then I might as well read the Bible online using any one of numerous web sites. Or, better, use my paper Bible. That never crashes, pages flip instantly and reliably each time.
This is the frustration that Logos brings to me... so much promise, so many tantalizing tools which become richer and better when used together (linked resources, automatic info window, power lookup, etc). But trying to actually use these exciting possibilities results in very poor performance and user frustration. So we turn off all of the cool features one by one. And begin to think ... "Hey, if I actually want to read my Bible without irritation perhaps I should just close my laptop and go back to my printed Bible"... I've actually stopped using Logos for my devotions (partly due to the massively frustrating 15-seconds to highlight bug...). Highlighting is faster with a set of pigment markers and a ruler, and more reliable too...
Oh Logos v4, what are we to do with you... so much promise, so much frustration, so much patience under the bridge, so much money spent...?
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Fritz Reuter said:
I will try that thanks.
I must say i am disappointed in this product, and would not buy it again.
When asked by a coworker i told him those exact same words, i would not buy it again.
Understand disappointment.
Personally Thankful for ability to search an immense digital library of books and find many relevant articles to read. Thankful for immense improvements in Logos 4 Mac since Alpha pre-releases. Hence, hopeful for future Logos 4 improvements on PC & Mac.
Also spent time testing scrolling in Logos 4.3 Beta 2 this morning using 10 Chapters in Exodus (up and down many times in ESV), posted observations in Mac Beta forum => Scrolling: Reverse Interlinear Bible, which can be very slow at times Plan to revisit scrolling Bible test in future Logos 4 Beta releases on Mac.
Learned scrolling has memory leaks in Logos 4 Mac so restarting Logos 4 Mac can help scrolling performance. After awhile changing scrolling directions can become really slow (seconds per line for screen change with 100 % CPU and spinning beach ball cursor); good indication time to close and open Logos 4 Mac.
Fritz Reuter said:Will this ever get resolved ?
With repeatable slow performance test case, now have hope for resolution in a future Logos 4 Mac version.
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Stuart
i could not agree more with you ....
back to paper and my highlighter . All the reasons why i bought logos do not really work ....
very sad indeed .....
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Fritz....
Then just to make sure...I suggest the following.
Type ESV in the command bar area and open your ESV only.
Then scroll.
If it's good, then we can keep checking things....if it's jerky...then we can look to see what is wrong in a more basic way.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Yes, Logos is scrolling much slower than it did for the last update.
Therefore, I think the issue is in the update, not in how we are using Logos (no change from previous for me) or whether we have this or that setting (no change from previous for me), or which type of Mac computer we have (no change from previous for me).
It's obviously a problem in the recent update.
I trust that the developers will figure it out and release a new update. Logos has been excellent about doing this in the past. I believe they will continue doing so.
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Updated Mac and PC User Interface Differences page Feature Parity section, added link to this thread since PC scrolling is better than Mac.
Fritz Reuter said:Should i go back to PC to be able to enjoy this great software?
Wiki Logos 4 Mac page has Need Logos 4 PC feature? section with tips for running Windows virtually or natively (Boot Camp), does need a valid Microsoft Windows license.
Currently, Logos 4.3 Beta 2 on PC scrolls better with Font scaling increase than Mac. Looking forward to Logos 4 Mac improvements.
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thanks robert i will try the ESV
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Rosie Perera said:
Perhaps the former should be renamed Logos 4 PC?
I wish they would! Maybe then I wouldn't have to follow both.
font scaled up (...) adversely affects scrolling (Up is worse than Down).
I don't notice either of these, and I have the font scaled up considerably everywhere I can. At least I don't now, and I haven't thought about it earlier. I also don't notice any difference between my Swedish Bible, which doesn't even have morph tags, and the NRSV, as long as the RI in the latter is off. Nor do I notice any difference between scrolling the Swedish Bible alone, and scrolling it when linked to the NRSV with RI open, but in a hidden tab. It's only when I scroll directly in the NRSV with RI open that it slows down noticeably.
No, my major -- major! -- scrolling problems occur in Notes, Search, and Passage Lists, none of which can be scaled up, none of which can be linked, all of which I use considerably, and all of which hardly move at all. And to make things worse, the arrow keys don't work in them either. This is keeping my scrolling finger constantly inflamed, and ensuring every turn of the wheel hurts.
I suspect Search panel scrolling may have become even slower lately, otherwise I haven't noticed any difference. NB: I'm still on SR 4.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Rosie Perera said:
(Perhaps the former should be renamed Logos 4 PC?)
But many of the things posted on both L4 forums apply to both platforms. I really see no alternative to following both.
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For Read Aloud daily use with Logos 4.2a SR-5 on Mac, hearing words skip. Quit, then launch Logos 4.2a SR-5 allows Read Aloud to be used that includes automatic scrolling of Bible text.
The daily reading layout has 3 ESV Bibles open and 1 Amplified Bible. The Amplified has send hyperlinks here. One ESV Bible has Old Testament reading plan; next one has Poetry reading plan, and third one has New Testament reading plan. Layout is using vertical columns plus font scaling.
For slow scrolling, wonder if something else is running on Mac that aggravates Logos 4 Mac scrolling (e.g. anti-virus scanning or online cloud backup). Wiki Mac Troubleshooting page has Slow Performance section that has many tips and ideas gleaned from various forum discussions.
With Logos 4.3 Beta 3 (on 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo iMac with 4 GB Ram), spent time scrolling up and down 12 Bible chapters in ESV with Reverse Interlinear pane displayed (only resource open), then updated Mac Beta thread => Scrolling: Reverse Interlinear Bible, which can be very slow at times
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Experimented a bit with scrolling earlier today. Results at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/32744.aspx.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Wondering about stable Logos 4.3 scrolling ? If still sluggish, would like to replicate (and create another Mac Beta thread) so Logos developers can improve scrolling performance.
Thankful for Logos 4.3 Beta 7 scrolling improvements => Scrolling: Reverse Interlinear Bible, which can be very slow at times
Personally have experienced Logos 4 Mac being noticeably more responsive using newer 2.93 GHz Quad Core i7 vis 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo. Apple's new MacBook Air and Mac Mini models with 2nd Generation i5 and i7 processors plus 4 GB Ram and fast storage should be noticeably more responsive using Logos 4 Mac than older 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo models.
As use Logos 4 more on Mac and PC, learning to have less open at same time, knowing how to quickly open other resources, tools, and guides as desired. The default layout from Home Page Go opens 7 resources linked together in set A (including Text Comparison of 5 Bible versions), which is slow to scroll on 2.93 GHz Quad Core i7 (closing several linked panels improves scrolling speed, similar to retracting airplane flaps for faster flight).
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4.3 scrolling is improved over previous versions but is still sluggish. Attempting to scroll through a resource with two-finger swipe down results in scroll, pause, scroll, pause, pause, scroll, scroll, paauuussseee, scroll, etc. The general sluggishness (esp of menus, scrolling, etc) of Logos 4, along with long-standing bugs (see my other posts for details) has gotten me to the point where I've stopped doing my daily Bible reading in Logos. Instead, I'm now doing my daily Bible reading using a PDF Bible. The PDF results in superb scrolling, instantaneous navigation via table of contents, consistently low memory usage, no spinning pizzas, etc.
Ironically, because of Logos' speed issues I've stopped buying Logos books and have started buying printed books instead. I say "ironically" because it was Logos that first planted the idea in my mind of building up an "electronic library". And yet it is Logos 4 that has made the dream of an electronic library get in the way of actual reading. Logos is quite close to the dream but as I read, for example, I'll click on a hyperlink to quickly look up something, at which point Logos shows me a spinning pizza, or sometimes just crashes. The dream is superb but the implementation (on Mac, at least) is lacking.
I haven't given up on Logos entirely, though. Logos is superb in its scope and the exegetical tools it provides and I still use Logos when doing detailed studies, etc. However, as a tool for daily reading (where I want to focus on actually reading and not on spinning pizzas, random crashes, annoyingly slow scrolling,etc) Logos is less than ideal. At times I quickly want to look up some scripture reference and waiting for over a minute for Logos to start and become useable is just too long. Launching Preview + PDF takes all of 3 seconds.
I cannot comment on Logos on Windows, nor yet on iPad or iPhone -- perhaps they're better. At present I'm simply trying to use Logos less (keep irritation levels down during study time) and am hoping that Logos will "fix" the issues, perhaps in Logos 5...
And, no, it's not my hardware... I have a Macbook Pro with Core i7, 2.6GHz CPU, 8GB RAM and 500GB 7200rpm disk. Everything else that I run flies -- it's only Logos that has speed problems.
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Stuart Robertson said:
Logos is quite close to the dream but as I read, for example, I'll click on a hyperlink to quickly look up something, at which point Logos shows me a spinning pizza, or sometimes just crashes. The dream is superb but the implementation (on Mac, at least) is lacking.
Option: call Logos so can repeat sluggish scrolling, spinning pizza, and crashes with Logos Mac Support watching (via desktop sharing) => http://www.logos.com/about/contact Hoping for repeatable use examples so Logos developers can repeat and improve.
Logos has fixed many bugs in stable 4.3 release; Thankful Logos 4.3 SR-2 is currently the best version Logos has shipped for Mac. Anticipating Logos 4.5 Beta 1 public release within a month (perhaps next week); looking forward to more Logos 4 improvements on Mac and Windows.
Stuart Robertson said:And, no, it's not my hardware... I have a Macbook Pro with Core i7, 2.6GHz CPU, 8GB RAM and 500GB 7200rpm disk.
Concur newer hardware has better responsiveness for Logos 4 Mac (also should feel responsive, but Logos 4 needs performance improvements). Caveat: other resource intensive application(s) can slow down Logos 4 Mac (when applications contend for available resources). Also aware menu response time using Logos 4.3 SR-2 on Mac and Windows with 2nd Generation Core i7 processors can take many seconds (on computers without other resource contenders); so am dreaming of faster Logos 4 Menu responses on Mac and Windows, one of 5 User Voice suggestions created a month ago => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/36824/280915.aspx#280915
Stuart Robertson said:At times I quickly want to look up some scripture reference and waiting for over a minute for Logos to start and become useable is just too long. Launching Preview + PDF takes all of 3 seconds.
Preview launch in 3 seconds is much faster than launching Logos 4 on Mac and Windows (personal workaround: keep Logos 4 open).
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