Microsoft Surface

David Thomas said:

Tes said:

Bill Anderson said:

I open up the highlighting palette in the Tools menu and leave it open

Bill, is it not possible to use shortcuts?

  Yes, I select the text and hit "y" and it highlights in yellow. (this is when I have the Type cover attached to my Surface) When I am in tablet mode (cover flipped back) it is easier to tap on the color with the Highlighter tab open than it is to call up the onscreen keyboard and select "y").

Thank you David.One more quetion, is it possible to type by both hands? How comfartable is it typing? Is it phisical? Or it is like the ipad keyboard? Is it possible to type with both hands without seeing?

[quote user="Tes"]

[quote user="David Thomas"]

[quote user="Tes"]

[quote user="Bill Anderson"]I open up the highlighting palette in the Tools menu and leave it open

[/quote]

Bill, is it not possible to use shortcuts?

[/quote]   Yes, I select the text and hit "y" and it highlights in yellow. (this is when I have the Type cover attached to my Surface) When I am in tablet mode (cover flipped back) it is easier to tap on the color with the Highlighter tab open than it is to call up the onscreen keyboard and select "y").

[/quote]

Thank you David.One more question, is it possible to type by both hands? How comfortable is it typing? Is it physical? Or it is like the iPad keyboard? Is it possible to type by both hands without seeing?

[/quote]

I am asking more questions,because we don't have it here yet.

Anyone heard of this one

• Toshiba U295t

Its not out yet but apparently is supposed to be really great and really expensive.

Heavy sigh?  I wonder if the Microsoft "Easy Bake" Surface will do afterall?

Joshua Lieder said:

Hi David and others.

I know how to turn on highlighting and use shortcuts on my windows laptop but hoped the tablet gave me a way to set the highlighter style and/or color with a set and forget setting?  Am I dreaming?

Also, can you all weigh in on how warm the back of your Surface Pro gets after you leave it on.  I hope you will be honest...its warm, huh?  Warm enough you can use it as a hand warmer on cold days, right? (assuming you are not actually being radiated somehow).

I am giving serious thought to this Surface.  Its a tie between this and the Samsung 700T (which scares me because of the keyboard disconnects that many report including Lisa at mobiletechreview).  I also like the Hp Envy but its an atom and slower.  A close third would be the Lenova Thinkpad 2.

Decisions...decisions.

Joshua,

As for the heat of the Surface Pro, it is warmer than I would like to be honest with you. That said, it is much, much better as far as heat goes and battery life if you modify the power settings. I turned down the brightness of the screen and scaled back the CPU and this has resulted in an acceptable level of heat for me and also better battery life.

As for your question about the tablet giving you a setting for your highlighting, remember, with the Surface Pro you are running full Logos 5 desktop. So, anything that you can set on your desktop, you can set on your tablet. Stated another way, if you can't set it on your desktop, you won't be able to set it on your tablet.

Below is a screen shot of my Surface Pro with the highlighting panel open.

One more expensive and difficult to find option:  The Asus Transformer Book.

http://www.asus.com/vivo/en/transformerBook.htm

It has extra storage via 500GB Hard Drive and battery (thus stabilizing weight) in the dock.  The screen is bigger.  Like the Yoga 13, it's physically more of a laptop than a tablet.  Sadly, the price and unavailability makes this a lesser option.

On the other hand, the Surface Pro is largely available!  The Surface Pro IS a laptop, in a tablet shape.

Microsoft directly is offering its $100 extended warranty with Accidental Damage protection for $100.  That kinda seals the deal.  They are really standing behind their design.

Regarding typing on your lap:  http://pocketnow.com/2013/02/11/apple-microsoft-surface-lap-lessons

Here's a thorough review:  http://pocketnow.com/2013/03/28/microsoft-surface-pro-review

Additionally, keyboards in the future may include batteries in them, via the Pro's specially designed accessory spine, that has extra powered electrical contacts.  But for now, I'm glad with what I have.

I'd be glad to help you all out with more decision-making.  But please consider, nothing's perfect.  These are tools.  We have to pull the trigger and get to work.

I'm fairly new here... enjoying the desktop app but would really love to see a more complete experience on the Windows 8 Metro side. I use a Surface Pro as my only computer. Not having the more touch-friendly version of the app is limiting how much I can use it when I'm not at my desk.

Are there any updates on the availability of a more robust Logos app for Win8?  Apologies in advance if I missed another thread, I looked around but couldn't find much recent info.

I just got my Surface Pro (with 256 GB HD) a few days ago.  I'm still learning a lot, but I'm very pleased with it.

To be honest, the Metro App is disappointing after using the Apple App for a long time--it's functionality is extremely limited.  However, I love having the full Logos experience on a Tablet.

I guess I'd like to see a continued enhancement of using touch-enabled/Windows 8 gestures on the full Logos 5 version, rather than further development of the Metro app.

Some have mentioned the heat--I haven't noticed it to be a problem, though my wife complains that my body temperature is always abnormally high.  [:)]  The weight, likewise, doesn't seem to be much of an issue.  Battery life IS disappointing, though keep in mind that you're not running some kind of Atom processor, but a full i5 Intel chip.

As a side note, I still have my old, old Acer TravelMate C110 I got 10 years ago.  I loaded Logos on that years ago, and loved that old computer.  I thought the world of computing would go with such Tablets, but it took Apple's marketing and packaging to really re-awaken that market.

I can see me falling in love with this Surface Pro like I did that old Acer.  And yes, I remember that the Acer's battery life was disappointing, too.

Maybe MS will develop a new type/touch cover (I use the type cover and love it) that is slightly thicker that could have a secondary battery.  However, as the type cover is usually used in a more desktop-ish environment (where power access may be less of an issue), it may not add that much functionality.

Surface Pro Prices just dropped - http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57596910-75/microsoft-cuts-surface-pro-tablet-prices-by-$100/

In my opinion this is the best single piece of hardware to run Logos5.

L5 for Win still outperforms L5 for Apple (although parity is getting closer)

Surface Pro's tablet form allows me to use it for preaching, but when in my study I can connect to mouse and external monitor and do complex searches with the full L5 feature set.

 

R. Mansfield....David Thomas almost had me a believer again but your honest assessment of the overpriced, overrated, overheated, one-should-really-wait-for-a-refresh or want to be a weight-lifter, before purchasing this machine - has given me pause.  It probably makes an excellent hand-warmer in your cold office in the middle of winter too.  This hardware is a hot brick imho.

The MS Surface Pro is a Turkey - a dud - a fizzle - a raspberry - a lame duck - a.....well you get the picture.  $100 off for this dud still isn't enough!  God bless everyone who bought this or the ATIV with the constant wifi disconnects.

Joshua (who sighs and returns to his corner again)

The Pro is not a dud in my mind either, other than having a poorer battery life compared to the surface RT or an iPad or Galaxy tablet.

-Dan 

I agree.  I think Joshua may be a Mac enthusiast, so his viewpoints will reflect that.  I use Windows at work and home.  Using the same format each place makes life simpler for me.  So that is why I bought Windows phone and Surface Pro.  I simply want to have access to my Logos program from anywhere, and for my purposes the Surface Pro works wonderfully.  I make sure I keep it charged and I have the settings where they don't use as much power, thus keeping it from heating too much.  That and avoiding blocking the vents on the edges.  I bought the wedge wireless mouse and the keyboards, and I am set!  I love the small, powerful wedge mouse!  So, I say, the Surface is a great computer!  And for those who want to use the lesser version of Logos with their Macs, go for it!  The best thing is that we are all believers, sharing the study and teaching of God's word!

For the following reasons, I have found the Surface Pro to be a compelling product for running Logos:

• It runs the full desktop application, not a stripped down iOS or Android OS. This is important for folks who want a portable computer to do on the run what a desktop or laptop computer can do.
• All of your resources can be downloaded to your computer. If you have thousands of resources, you could download all of your resources to an iPad (especially if you purchased a 32GB or higher iPad), but most people only put on to their tablets what they expect to use offline.
• You have access to all of your resources and the functionality of the desktop application if you do not have an Internet connection.
• For pastors who work at home and the office, it is possible to make the Surface Pro (or the Samsung ATIV tablet with the same specs as the Surface Pro) your one and only computer. Yes, multi-monitor scaling is a problem with Windows 8, but that will be fixed with Windows 8.1 which is now in public preview prior to release in a couple of months.
• Highlighting books in the desktop application on the Surface Pro is less cumbersome than the multi-step process of underlining resources in the iOS and Android apps. For me, underlining on these other tablets requires an additional step.
• While you must use a stylus to navigate some of the small controls of the desktop Logos application, unlike the underpowered Atom processors in lesser-priced Windows 8 tablets, you can actually scroll through windows in Logos with your finger.

Other users could add more reasons.

In the interest of being fair and balanced, IMO here are the negatives of the Surface Pro:

• Battery life is low for what a tablet should be, but this is a problem with most laptops running the same generation of Intel processors. Haswell will probably help this.
• The SP runs hot out of the box, but can be cooled by turning down the insanely bright screen to something like 25% and scaling down the processor to run a little slower. By the way, it is incredibly deceiving going into the Microsoft Store or Best Buy and forming one's opinion based upon the temperature of the display units. Display units are set to run at full tilt and in the case of the SP, will skew one to thinking that they always run this way. However, it takes all of five minutes to adjust the advanced power settings. Incredibly, I didn't find that this affected the performance of Logos, and it helped the SP run cooler and longer on battery. By the way, I found the iPad with retina display to also run unacceptably hot, but I also found that turning down the brightness also made a difference.
• As I mentioned before, the scaling bug in Windows with multiple monitors will have to wait to be addressed in Windows 8.1. 
• The SP is a little heavy for a tablet, but this is really a matter of personal preference. Some people actually like the "substantial feel" of the SP.

For a first generation effort, Microsoft has done pretty well in producing a well-made, well-running tablet. Did Apple nail the Macbook Air on the first generation? Heavens, no. But look at the Macbook Air now after what, three or so generations? Anyone who is fair ought to realize that first generation products never get it totally right. However, if you never buy the first generation product, you never experience the benefits that I have mentioned. Those benefits for SP owners are why they are satisfied owners of the product.

Dear Ms. Jackson:

I am not a mac enthusiast.  I am simply a frustrated, yes impatient (God forgive me), poor Divinity School student tired of waiting for cheaper better hardware.  For me the Surface Pro is and will ever be in its original format - a hot expensive brick.

Mr. Anderson is ever the voice of reason and restraint in here (I mean this as a compliment too) and others seem to enjoy their purchase and have no buyer's remorse.  God bless you all....you are apparently "..content in all things" [:)]

I like the HP Envy Split X2 but it doesnt have enough memory on board when you detach it from the keyboard.  I want to be able to easily underline/highlight. like the MS Surface does too.  I just content myself with knowing that Logis is barely "touchable" anyway and make do with the silly Android version of Logos 5.0 which is really ONLY good as a reader.

The simple fact remains - there isnt a piece of hardware out yet that is made for Logos 5.0 viewers that works well, cooly, for a long period of time, and permits onboard TABLET ONLY access to one's whole library, yet. 

I hear refresh of the "hot brick" isnt happening until next year....that's a mistake.  Lowering the cost by a hundred dollars is simply not enough to make me buy this brick though.

 

Bill Anderson said:

Yes, you can run the Logos application in portrait mode on the SP, but the columns will need to be narrow and the text size will be small. You could always bump up the text size in the settings. For me, running Logos in landscape mode works best.

I concur with Bill. The reason I prefer the landscape mode is that I can open the highlighting palette, the book I am reading, and a Bible in 3 side-by-side panes. VERY similar to Bill's screen capture here - http://community.logos.com/forums/p/57269/481818.aspx#481818

Mr. Hooten, won't you have buyers remorse soon if they come out with something like a cheaper cooler reader-friendly Surface Pro 8.1 Machine?

I wish the cost would come down.  I do not see anyone commenting on how readable the SP is seeing how its backlit and I would imagine tiring on the eyes after awhile.

I keep waiting and hoping and dreaming.

I return often to a local branch of a nationwide chain of electronics stores and tried the Surface Pro yet again...this time going to Biblia.com 

The SP (not the RT version) would not permit me to grow the font and the slider bar to increase the font would only move so far - with difficulty.  Worse the backlighting and the overhead lighting made the screen hard to read and it tires the eyes quickly.

Also, I need a better dpi (screen resolution) and something I can hook up easily to my Samsung (non-touchscreen) larger horizontal widescreen monitor and I keep thinking thats not simple because of windows scaling issues.

My chief complaint is not the lack of volume on the SP and not even that it can heat up a bit and has inferior battery life - but is now primarily - it is just not readable as in not sharp enough to read my textbooks in Logos and things like Kindle or Googlebooks.

Before everyone suggests a Kindle, Nook, etc...I am seeking an all purpose Windows laptop replacement preferably with a detachable keyboard and one that functions primarily as an ereader - until I want the power and search capabilities of Logos.  Yup I want it all and affordable too.[:D]

Still waiting and hoping.  (Light sigh)

JoshInRI said:

I return often to a local branch of a nationwide chain of electronics stores and tried the Surface Pro yet again...this time going to Biblia.com 

The SP (not the RT version) would not permit me to grow the font and the slider bar to increase the font would only move so far - with difficulty.  Worse the backlighting and the overhead lighting made the screen hard to read and it tires the eyes quickly.

Also, I need a better dpi (screen resolution) and something I can hook up easily to my Samsung (non-touchscreen) larger horizontal widescreen monitor and I keep thinking thats not simple because of windows scaling issues.

My chief complaint is not the lack of volume on the SP and not even that it can heat up a bit and has inferior battery life - but is now primarily - it is just not readable as in not sharp enough to read my textbooks in Logos and things like Kindle or Googlebooks.

Before everyone suggests a Kindle, Nook, etc...I am seeking an all purpose Windows laptop replacement preferably with a detachable keyboard and one that functions primarily as an ereader - until I want the power and search capabilities of Logos.  Yup I want it all and affordable too.

Still waiting and hoping.  (Light sigh)

JoshInRI, your wishes may be one step closer to reality. Dell appears to be offering a new Win8 (non ATOM option). By picking the specs that you want, you may be able to beat the Surface Pro 2's price if you are willing to compromise on certain specs - http://www.informationweek.com/hardware/handheld/microsoft-surface-vs-dell-venue-tablet-r/240162269 

I own a windows surface and I love it because its like looking at my computer, however the apps for Logos stop working on my computer and tablet, both are windows. I'm trying now to get the problem fixed with logos, and down loading version 5 is not the problem. Once this is corrected I would say yes to having it on my surface.

 

The app works fine on my Surface 2. I realize the app is in the process of being developed. The feature I would like to see them develop next is the highlighting and notes.

That is great news! I purchased the Surface RT with the sincere hope that Logos would expand their coverage for the ARM devices. I greatly miss the ability to have two items open and paralleling (sp?) each other. I use the ESV bible and a favorite commentary in my daily bible study, and have missed that functionality. I love my Surface RT, and will enjoy it even more when the updated functionality is available. Thanks Logos for not leaving me high and dry in this area.
God's richest blessings to your entire staff.

Mark

Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:

Mark Gawura said:

That is great news!

Unfortunately, the post you replied to is over a year old and, since then, we have cut back development on the Windows Store app as Windows RT marketshare has not taken off.

We're not ruling out future development on the platform, but it's not under active development right now.

Bradley Grainger, Logos has to give a deserved apology to all people who relied on the promises and purchased Surface devices. Honestly I am very shocked at this post:

• This thread is not old. It was continuously updated with great expectations of costumers who purchased Surface throughout a year.  
• I dont know when you "cut back development on the Windows Store app as Windows RT marketshare has not taken off" but it was not stated on this thread, and costumers trusting a good moral ethics of this company continued to buy surface.
• After one year of the continuous  life of this thread you finally report to users that it will not be supported with no apology, and stating that this thread is old.

I do not own yet a Surface, but I was planning. I have a great sympathy toward the pastors, students, and other ministers who bought products believing that the app will have all functions like Ihone/Ipad and Android.

Now I will list all the unfulfilled broken promises:

Scott Alexander (Logos) said:

Yes, the current version is very basic but we are working hard to match the functionality provided by the Logos Bible app on the iOS and Android platforms. Expect updates every few weeks.

Scott Alexander (Logos) said:

Yes we will support ARM devices, we're actully woking on it right now.

Scott Alexander (Logos) said:

Good news, we have the current version of the Bible app working on a Surface RT as of this morning! It should be in the store within the next week or so (I will post here when it is published). Keep in mind that the Windows Store version of the Bible app is early in development so the feature set is very limited, especially if you're used the iOS or Android versions. We'll be shipping updates every three weeks or so with the goal of eventually achieving parity with the other platforms.

Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:

It's possible that we'll eventually release a number of "uni-focus" applications, e.g., reading plan app, prayer list app, etc. You could sign into each one with your logos.com account and access the documents that the desktop app has synced to the cloud.

Scott Alexander (Logos) said:

.....The plan is for this app to have the same functionality as the iOS and Android Logos Bible apps. The Logos Bible app is free on all mobile platforms, it's the resources that you pay for. Does that clear things up?

Scott Alexander (Logos) said:

Chad Smith said:

Is there a way to download the books into memory. Our church doesn't have internet, and I'd love to use the Surface as my Bible in church instead of having to reading it off of Logos on the iphone.

Not currently but this feature is coming soon, within the next couple months or so.

PS: 

"Integrity is keeping my commitments even if the circumstances when I made those commitments have changed."

David Jeremiah

After using a high end Toshiba android tablet for two years and running the android betas I commend you for the fantastic app. I also had an I-phone and ran that app. However, I have gone to a windows phone and a surface tab RT I am much more satisfied. I do not care if you ever do a windows phone app but I would like to see one improvement to the RT app that it would be able to interact with the reading plans like the android app. I believe more ministers will discover the surface tab is much more practical and versatile. I use logos on my office desktop but often use my surface for reading on the go. It does what I want it to except for the reading plans. I do not view the lack of development as broken promises but as a business decision based on the data. Like I said, I would be pleased with the one improvement. However, I believe that more will discover the surface tab is more practical for those in ministry and it costs less as well.