Removing the Store (cart) icon in Logos 9

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This post has 88 Replies | 7 Followers

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 6:52 AM

MJ. Smith:

 is what I was responding to. II was following your logic to it's other implications.

im not sure that taking a clipped quote out of context really counts as “following your logic.” But whatever.🙄

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Verbum 9 Ultimate

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 7:18 AM

Sean:
The really annoying thing about this forum is MVPs (as well as others) chiming in whenever a customer has a complaint: "FaithLife is not wrong--you are.

There are various things we find annoying Sean. I, for one, find the assertion that the Logos programme has been 'paid' for particularly irksome.

The part of my message you did not quote suggested a way forward that might allow the 'store access' points to become an option and still make business sense.

I am not implying that anyone is wrong for wanting fewer of them, or even none at all. I just see the business case for having them.

Actually, in the past, when I have clicked on a link to an unowned resource I have rued the fact that there wasn't a quick and easy way of accessing the store. So that I could efficiently obtain it without too much of a break in my flow.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1188
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 7:29 AM

Greg Rose:

I run Verbum and I was just wondering...if I start the software as "Logos" will the Store App button give me a different list of books? When I click on the Store icon in Verbum the Library opens with a listing of 2355 results.  I was curious as to if the list would be larger if I switch the "Verbum" interface to the Logos interface and then click on the Store Icon?

I suspect it would be different. When I clicked on the store icon, having Ultimate, there are ~400 items shown. That squares with the Verbum website when I click on the not owned filter

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 8:44 AM

James Hudson:

I think you are both correct!

It will be a simple fix, but FL should not have wasted time and resources on this in the first place and should have used their limited time, resources and effort to deal with your wish list of fixes (and the many 'popular' fixes and suggestions on feedbear)  (BTW, I think I have supported all of your great ideas on feedbear, MJ). I definitely did not see any request anywhere for another space-consuming toolbar icon in the suggestions!!

However, having done the deed they need to provide an option for us to remove it. It does affect me (and others) as a priority and for me is important, gving me "reduced value". I know it is not important for you, but everyone has their own self-motivated priorities based on their own work flows. But, I reiterate, I too would love for them to prioritize fixes and suggestions from feedbear. But this now is a fix needed.

FL should make use of their beta testing feedback (where this was also noted) and listen to users.

Yes The forums need an "amen" button like Faithlife.com has.

Posts 3054
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 11:02 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
As far as I know, no one seemed to mind then.

They do, now.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 5367
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 11:39 AM

Greg Rose:
I run Verbum and I was just wondering...if I start the software as "Logos" will the Store App button give me a different list of books? When I click on the Store icon in Verbum the Library opens with a listing of 2355 results.  I was curious as to if the list would be larger if I switch the "Verbum" interface to the Logos interface and then click on the Store Icon?

Yes.

Clifford B. Kvidahl:
I don't care what a company does when I can just as easily ignore it like it's not there and go on with my study.

Some of us cannot so easily ignore it.

David Wanat:

Clifford B. Kvidahl:

Do you call your TV provider or ISP to complain and ask that all commercials and ads be removed since you don't want to be sold something, you just want to watch your tv or surf the web uninterrupted? Or, do you just click on by ignoring the commercials and ads like they are not there?

That is not an apt comparison.

A less distant one would be if you bought an ordinary DVD player and then later on the maker of the DVD player did an OTA firmware update to your DVD player so that there'd be a store icon covering the top right corner of the screen whenever you were watching a DVD using the player.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 2:17 PM

Sean:
The really annoying thing about this forum is MVPs (as well as others) chiming in whenever a customer has a complaint: "FaithLife is not wrong--you are. Quit complaining."--and how they keep going at it to the point of derailing and diluting threads. (It's happened plenty of times in the past; no, I'm not going to provide further examples.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but your characterization implies a misunderstanding of what I have been trying to say  which is:

  • your complaint is valid
  • I was the first to report it as a problem in beta
  • be certain it is your #1 priority before pushing it as requiring immediate action
  • it's fine it it is your #1 priority -- but it isn't mine
  • recognize the available staff for coding doesn't change; prioritizing this pushes other bug fixes and feature development back.

In the beta forum there was an active discussion of this where Faithlife provided their rationale New store button in Logos 9.5 beta 1 - Faithlife Forums

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Thanks for your feedback. But I'd like to ask that you give it some time and consider that it may be a significant help to other users (and, indirectly, for you, too, as we continue to grow and can invest in making Logos better for everyone).

Desktop in-app purchasing has increased 5x since we introduced the Store tab in the Library, which tells me that some users really appreciate the convenience and contextual nature of finding and buying a book without leaving the app. The ability to shop for individual resources by their metadata is something powerful that can't be replicated on Logos.com. It's a real service to users that more people need to know about and experience.

In-app purchasing in desktop applications may not be the norm (though we did it in Libronix two decades ago!). But it is the norm in modern mobile and web applications. There's a move toward eliminating the gap between apps and stores. It's hard to find a modern mobile app that doesn't have prominent, integrated in-app purchasing.

There was quite a kerfuffle about the changes we made to the About Logos panel a few years ago, but people have mostly gotten used to it and its proven to be an effect tool for driving upgrades. I expect the same outcome here.

By the end of beta testing, Phil was considering the customization of the tool bar option ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 2:42 PM

James Hudson:
However, having done the deed they need to provide an option for us to remove it. It does affect me (and others) as a priority and for me is important, gving me "reduced value". I know it is not important for you, but everyone has their own self-motivated priorities based on their own work flows. But, I reiterate, I too would love for them to prioritize fixes and suggestions from feedbear. But this now is a fix needed.

While I'm not enthusiastic about the final 7 words, this is exactly the kind of post I like to see -- a personal opinion strongly supported, no faux accusations, and a recognition that even everyone in the forums is a small slice of the Logos family of users.

I suspect we will get some form of customizing the tool bar which is a positive feature gain independent of the shopping cart issue. And, yes, I have expressed reservations regarding a customizable tool bar from the perspective of training. As a feature, I can envisions a group of users on devices where it could be very helpful; at the moment that group does not include me but I support their effort.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 609
Jesse Blevins | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 5:44 PM

I don't want the shopping cart on my screen. I don't like it and I think it stinks. 

It comes across as tacky and as over aggressive marketing to me (this is my opinion).  

I buy things on a regular basis from Logos but it is at my choice when and where to shop.

I associate my Logos software with class and this tacky a** shopping cart on my private desk top and sacred work space doesn't fit in at all with the sacred work that I do within it. 

This is my opinion (no intention of arguing or debating anyone).

Its my software that I have paid for and continue to pay for and I don't want a cart stuck in my face every time that I choose to study the word of God (which is the most sacred task that I can do).     

Pastor Jesse Blevins 

Posts 335
Michael Parry-Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 27 2021 6:57 PM

I don't like the store icon,   

I stopped buying resources,  logos is sill not listening  to its customers  it won't make me  buy more books , 

Always gone to Logos website  to buy books , 

When I use logos I don't use  the internet i have it switched off

The software runs faster, all the shop store does is fill your cache file full of junk ,the store book  icons are stored  somewhere  

When I delete the web cache file I have to download videos and audio resources   again ,let's have some house keeping to help to keep the website cache file  free from the junk stuff

Mick
Posts 2188
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 28 2021 5:27 AM

MJ. Smith:

quote user="Phil Gons (Faithlife)"]

Thanks for your feedback. But I'd like to ask that you give it some time and consider that it may be a significant help to other users (and, indirectly, for you, too, as we continue to grow and can invest in making Logos better for everyone).

Desktop in-app purchasing has increased 5x since we introduced the Store tab in the Library, which tells me that some users really appreciate the convenience and contextual nature of finding and buying a book without leaving the app.

Phil,

Please consider giving customers the option to either take it off the menu bar or to move it to a different location in the menu bar.

Posts 2361
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 11:52 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're considering a setting/customization option.

Perhaps the customization option could be to use the Logos icon on the top left of the UI (next to the home button). If users were permitted to embed a link to this icon either to the Logos.com home page OR Forum Home Page OR Store Front OR leave it blank. It may be a way of adding functionality without taking any more space on the bar.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 12
Luuk Dondorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 12:33 PM

IMHO something is very weird to this "store" button..it is bringing you exactly to the same spot as the already existing library icon on the left of the toolbar does, except for that it now opens the store tab instead of the yours tab. Adding a second "library" button with the same functionality looks unnecessary redundant to me.

Weird..because it adds nothing. No convenience, no functionality. Just a lot of fuss in these forums. My advise to FL: remove it.

Posts 12
Luuk Dondorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 1:07 PM

OK, I just read the posts on the Beta forum (I am not using beta's) and I understand this redundancy was intentional. I understand the incentive to do so, but in that case I would remove the store tab from the library menu and place it as an icon next to the library icon and redesign it. Now it looks like a pram.

But even better: leave it as it was, without the extra icon. Because after all, it worked fine as it boosted your sales 5x which sounds significant to me...

Posts 5367
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 30 2021 11:06 AM

Luuk Dondorp:
But even better: leave it as it was, without the extra icon. Because after all, it worked fine as it boosted your sales 5x which sounds significant to me...

I expect that the new icon will lead to a further sales boost, if it hasn't already.

It already has led to a boost in unhappy customers.

Letting us manually hide the Store button shouldn't hurt sales, but will reduce the number of unhappy customers.

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 7 2021 12:30 PM

SineNomine:

Faithlife merged post into => Remove Store Button that now has 14 votes.

Caveat: new feedback currently needs separate login so please vote => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system that has 28 votes (#1 in Faithlife.com / ChMS feedback board).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5367
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 7 2021 6:42 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Thanks for letting me know. I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.

Ergo, please vote here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/allow-us-to-hide-the-new-store-button

You will notice that I made the new "Let us hide" suggestion more clearly different from the "Remove" request (which I personally do not support).

Posts 9104
LogosEmployee

SineNomine:
I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.

Sorry about that. I wasn't reading carefully and they seemed like the same suggestion. Thanks for clarifying in your new suggestion that it's something different.

Posts 5367
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2021 9:04 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

SineNomine:
I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.

Sorry about that. I wasn't reading carefully and they seemed like the same suggestion. Thanks for clarifying in your new suggestion that it's something different.

No worries! I could have been clearer the first time. All's well now. Yes

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