Logos Mobile Education diploma & certificates
Would it make any difference to you if Logos Mobile Education offered certificates for course completion and a diploma for a course of study? I am not talking about accreditation. Just something on the order of AM Moody or Liberty Home Bible institute.
Please share your thoughts.
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Would be extremely interested, and it would insure I would buy every course available.
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I agree that some kind of diploma or recognition for the work put into completing these courses would be desirable. However, from reading other forums regarding Logos' plans for this program, it appears that the publisher is more interested in convincing other bible schools and seminaries to adopt the curriculum and ad it to their degree programs. This would of course mean that we have to purchase the curriculum and pay whatever tuition is expected by the college or seminary.
There are, however, a few internet based models that Logos could consider. For instance the free college level courses offered through Coursera.org, or udacity.com.
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Robert Tague said:
There are, however, a few internet based models that Logos could consider. For instance the free college level courses offered through Coursera.org, or udacity.com.
I do not think Logos could would afford to produce curriculum for a free model.
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Steve Farson said:
Would be extremely interested, and it would insure I would buy every course available.
I think I would too.
I would definitely go for it if we could get academic pricing for 6 months or so.
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Super.Tramp said:
I would definitely go for it if we could get academic pricing for 6 months or so.
Haha, very cheeky. [;)]..... I'm sure others would buy in if that's the case.
Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!
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ChelseaFC said:Super.Tramp said:
I would definitely go for it if we could get academic pricing for 6 months or so.
Haha, very cheeky.
..... I'm sure others would buy in if that's the case.Oh, but I was serious.
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Do the Mobile Education courses have any testing or exams?
How would Logos know when someone completes a course?
Would my 14 year old son be allowed to use a course?
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Super.Tramp said:
Do the Mobile Education courses have any testing or exams?
How would Logos know when someone completes a course?
Would my 14 year old son be allowed to use a course?
yes there is end of unit quiz + mid and end of course quiz
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
yes there is end of unit quiz + mid and end of course quiz
How is grading achieved? Self or Logos?
(I paid $800 for the AM Moody courses and now have no grading option.)
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Super.Tramp said:
How is grading achieved? Self or Logos?
Here's a screen cast of a basic unit test. Multiple choice. Graded by the application. The 'terms are similar but a tad longer.
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Randy W. Sims said:
Here's a screen cast of a basic unit test. Multiple choice. Graded by the application.
Thank you, Randy. This was very helpful.
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I still think Logos can gain a lot of credibility for Mobile Education if they offered diplomas or academic pricing privileges. Without self-recognition others may not respect them.
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I am a little surprised there are not more people with something to say in this regard. Is there a lack of interest in Logos Mobile Education?
I have got to make up my mind by Tuesday when it ships.
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A certificate or diploma only has the credibility of the individual/organization that issues it. Since M.ed is not accredited by anyone outside of Logos, it really only would have credibility for somebody who knows what Logos stands for. If a person already knows what Logos stands for then a certificate or diploma is not necessary. If a person just wants something on the wall that says "I took these courses" then there are all sorts of templates online for a "Certificate of Completion" that one could print and hang on his/her wall.
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Super.Tramp said:
I am a little surprised there are not more people with something to say in this regard. Is there a lack of interest in Logos Mobile Education?
I have got to make up my mind by Tuesday when it ships.
i love the m.Ed concept. It's perfect for my needs. Personally i see no value in a "Diploma" offered by Logos. Since it would not be accredited it wouldn't be a diploma at all. If anything it would devalue what Logos is offering through the m.Ed. concept - it would become like the old saying, "oh you must of got your license from a corn flakes packet"
To me m.Ed is about helping me to become a better reader of the scriptures and hence increase my understanding and application of the scriptures. Secondarily it enables me to better read, understand and evaluate the wide scope of resources I have in my Logos library as I gain deeper insight into what it is I believe about God and why I believe it. This has flow on benefits to how I serve in my local church as a children's ministry leader, how I build up those in the bible study group I attend weekly and how I encourage those I speak with at church. And it enables me to be ready to defend the truth in which I believe those whom I come in contact and ask me about my faith.
I am not seeing m.Ed as simply something to complete so I can get a certificate, and I don't need a certificate to achieve or do what I outlined above - I simply need to live out may faith. I saved off the certificates from the AM Moody Course - I completed them all - as PDF files, and haven't looked at them since and most likely never will. In reality they have no value in that they are not accredited. But what I appreciate is I still have all the notes in Logos to refer to in the future and can still do the quizzes if choose - the only thing I can't do is submit my results to Moody.
The m.Ed courses I have, I know have them for "life" and go back to them to refresh my understanding on a topic whenever I want. The real value of m.Ed. Is in how it enables you to grow and that has nothing to do with getting a certificate or diploma IMHO. If being able to print such is a deciding factor is purchasing these courses I hope you haven't missed the real value of these courses.
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I appreciate hearing from you and David
I started this thread at the suggestion of a Logos employee who was curious if having a diploma or certificate would make any difference. I understand the comments made against having them but I wonder if it still has value for some. I figure there are people who need some encouragement and acknowledgment along the way. Other respectable courses of study do offer such (Moody, Liberty)
My personal hesitation with mEd has to do with my poor eyesight. I have considerable trouble viewing videos. I have to weigh the risks of further sight loss with the benefits of the courses. That is why I asked if others can take the courses. If I am unable to I hope my 14 yro son will.
I really am serious about getting academic pricing on Logos products for mEd enrollees. That would sway a lot of people who are now leaning against it.
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No, it would make no difference to me if a certificate for course completion or a diploma was offered. The only reason I bought this product was for my own edification. I have already taken almost every course in a formal academic setting. Logos MobileEd are courses I own that I can consult any time I want. Many of the courses are refreshers and many of them give me a different spin than what I had in Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. I look at these courses as just another resource in my extensive personal assistant's brain.
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I wonder if offering certification would pigeonhole the product at a certain level. Could a college justify it's use in a more expensive distance learning class if anyone could gain a certificate for the same course from Logos for much less? I'm not sure if that's a valid argument, but it's the first thought that occurs to me. What if Logos deferred to other organizations? Maybe put together some tools to help various church bodies or denominational organizations to create their own certification process using Logos courseware that suits them best?
I don't know if any of that makes any kind of sense. Just throwing some wild thoughts out.
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Randy W. Sims said:
Could a college justify it's use in a more expensive distance learning class if anyone could gain a certificate for the same course from Logos for much less?
I know Liberty University gives college credit to those who have completed the Liberty Home Bible Institute. I can not remember how many hours though. Of course, that is their own in-house program.
LHBI costs around $1100. The content differs a bit.
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Super Tramp,
In spite of the negative responses, I still agree with you that there would be some value in having some sort of formal recognition for completing these courses. There must have been some initial plans in that direction, otherwise why bother to have exams imbedded into the work.
I never had the luxury of enrolling in a seminary program, or even a four year bible college. I had a family to support. I did have the opportunity to attend a small, unaccredited, bible institute. That was way back before Logos, or any of their competitors, or even before home pc's for that matter. I have served in bi-vocational ministry ever since. As an experienced bi-vocational pastor, I can attest to the fact that almost any kind of verifiably legitimate certificate or diploma can help open up ministry opportunities in one of the many small churches across the country that are struggling to find a pastor. Any formal education is better than no education, that is one of the reasons that, years ago, the SBC introduced their Seminary Extension program.
Unfortunately I do not believe that Logos is planning on offering any kind of recognition for completing these courses. From a marketing perspective the M-ed program is a marketing tool to help Logos sell platinum libraries and upgrades. Much in the same way that the Moody AM courses were used to sell Logos products and promote Moody Bible Institute. At least with the M-ed program we shouldn't have the "rug pulled out from under us" like we did when Moody abruptly ended the AM program. That was $800.00 poorly spent.
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To clarify my position: I am very much in favor of certification. I'm just throwing thoughts out there to fill out the conversation.
Certification could be a powerful draw to get people using Logos as long as that certification has meaning and value. I.E. if certification could be traded in for credits or if denominational organizations used it as a (super-) qualification for electing assistant pastors, Sunday school teachers, worship leaders, or positions at whatever level is appropriate to each, understanding that seminary or other formal training may be a requirement for higher positions. If a number of denominational organizations were enlisted who said here are the qualifications we'd like to see met for certification and if someone is certified as having met those qualification then we will fully endorse Logos certification and will consider anyone certified as fully qualified for x position.
But would the investment required be too much? If Jack doesn't have Logos and wants to get certification, how much must he invest to get certified in Logos vs school. Base Package + n courses + Certification Fee. Could it be made available also as a DVD with workbooks to those on a budget? With strong incentives to upgrade to the full Logos package? Would that help or hurt Logos? I'm making a bit of an assumption here that the typical Logos user would benefit less from certification (as they are likely using Logos because they are already in some form of ministry), that it is those without Logos that stand to benefit most from formalized certification, mostly.
How is certification accomplished? Does Logos have to develop a "live" testing apparatus? What is Logos costs? Is it passed on in the price of the courses or is certification an option with an additional fee?
I really don't know if I'm being helpful or not. Just thinking out loud.
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Robert Tague said:
In spite of the negative responses,
Thank you Robert. The "negative" responses do not bother me. I am happy to hear from anyone. I still believe diplomas and certificates would be a good thing. I am not losing sight of te greater issue of content.
Thank you for your input
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Randy W. Sims said:
I really don't know if I'm being helpful or not. Just thinking out loud.
Wow Randy, you brought up a lot of good points.
Maybe Logos can ponder and answer some of them.
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In their initial announcement of the project, didn't Logos explain why they weren't seeking accreditation/certification? My memory may be wrong but ...
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Randy W. Sims said:
To clarify my position: I am very much in favor of certification. I'm just throwing thoughts out there to fill out the conversation.
Certification could be a powerful draw to get people using Logos as long as that certification has meaning and value. I.E. if certification could be traded in for credits or if denominational organizations used it as a (super-) qualification for electing assistant pastors, Sunday school teachers, worship leaders, or positions at whatever level is appropriate to each, understanding that seminary or other formal training may be a requirement for higher positions. If a number of denominational organizations were enlisted who said here are the qualifications we'd like to see met for certification and if someone is certified as having met those qualification then we will fully endorse Logos certification and will consider anyone certified as fully qualified for x position.
But would the investment required be too much? If Jack doesn't have Logos and wants to get certification, how much must he invest to get certified in Logos vs school. Base Package + n courses + Certification Fee. Could it be made available also as a DVD with workbooks to those on a budget? With strong incentives to upgrade to the full Logos package? Would that help or hurt Logos? I'm making a bit of an assumption here that the typical Logos user would benefit less from certification (as they are likely using Logos because they are already in some form of ministry), that it is those without Logos that stand to benefit most from formalized certification, mostly.
How is certification accomplished? Does Logos have to develop a "live" testing apparatus? What is Logos costs? Is it passed on in the price of the courses or is certification an option with an additional fee?
I really don't know if I'm being helpful or not. Just thinking out loud.
A lot of depth in these courses is found in the readings from Logos resources - not to take away from the video portions though of the speakers, but is someone were to watch just the video portions on a DVD I'm not sure if that alone without the readings would be enough content for certification. Currently there is no workbook with the courses - just transcripts of the videos so I am not sure if you are just expecting that, or something more In a workbook.
I'm not against certification if it is done right, but simply printing out a certificate after completeing a multiple-choice exam, or printing out a 'Diploma' after completing a number of required exams just doesn't seem that important to me. I bought these courses knowing Logos said certification wasn't something they were looking at doing and am very happy with what I have bought.
On these grounds I don't understand why people who bought AM Moody feel it is $800 wasted - you still have access to all the material and self evaluate your understanding with the quizzes. You just can't access a web service that let's you submit the fact you passed the multiple-choice quiz and have it generate for you a 'certificate' with your name inserted. There are many Pastors in the world who have access to much less level of resources than you do in this package. Appreciate the blessing you have in owning what you do in your Logos library. Whether or not you can print a certificate that says "John" has completed this course and that certificate has no accreditation value - like the AM Moody course is a first world problem I am sure many in the third world would love to have.
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DOC wrote: On these grounds I don't understand why people who bought AM Moody feel it is $800 wasted....
Perhaps I can help you understand my point, even if you don't agree.
1. Yes I do still have access to all the materials from the AM Moody course. However, I also have a substantial library (printed and digital) and the AM material is, by comparison, inferior to most of the rest of my library. It definitely was not worth the $800 purchase price.
2. The implied contract/agreement when I purchased the AM library was that Moody Institute would provide the grading and record keeping and certificates that go with the course. Which in my opinion, and I suspect was the opinion of many of the others who purchased the material, is what made it worth the purchase price. They broke that contract/agreement.
3. One does not have to live in the "third world" to be poor, and cut off from adequate resources. I have lived and ministered in a rural, low income region for my entire career. I have attempted to be a good steward of the resources (financial and otherwise) that the Lord has provided, including educational resources and opportunities. In my opinion, the Moody AM material was not good stewardship.
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Robert Tague said:
2. The implied contract/agreement when I purchased the AM library was that Moody Institute would provide the grading and record keeping and certificates that go with the course. Which in my opinion, and I suspect was the opinion of many of the others who purchased the material, is what made it worth the purchase price. They broke that contract/agreement.
I, too, think the grading and certificate is what made the AM Moody courses worth the $800 That was the carrot that wooed me into purchasing it. Not only did they break the contract but they broke their Christian word to do something. I am highly disappointed in Moody.
The fact that many AM Moody customers feel cheated proves that certificates and interactive supervision have a monetary value. I doubt I would pay extra for mEd with such a benefit as it is a lot of money already. But I do think adding certificates, a diploma, and academic pricing would be a deciding factor for many who presently are rejecting the offer.
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MJ. Smith said:
In their initial announcement of the project, didn't Logos explain why they weren't seeking accreditation/certification? My memory may be wrong but ...
There is nothing wrong with your memory. Logos was very clear they had no intention of going that direction. This thread was started as a response to a post by Logos employee Aaron Linne. I do not know if his post was predicated on some interest at Logos or just a personal curiosity.
I have taken this opportunity to champion the idea of academic pricing on Logos resource purchases for enrollees in mEd. It would be an in-house decision that would not involve extra work. Critics would have no basis to object and many more people would enrol.
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Super.Tramp said:
I have taken this opportunity to champion the idea of academic pricing on Logos resource purchases for enrollees in mEd. It would be an in-house decision that would not involve extra work. Critics would have no basis to object and many more people would enrol.
[Y] Yes, I e-mailed my sales rep and mentioned this few times in the past. I hope if more people e-mail their sales rep and request this, Logos would listen. I hope Logos keeps the price of the courses down after the pre-pub release, so more people have an opportunity to learn from these great resources. It is a great way to learn for lay leaders who could not attend bible college.
I went through the course materials and they are so far very similar to the courses I took for credits in the past, except there are no research papers, essays, and in front of class presentations. There are good research skills taught in the mEd. courses which is great. This beats the old days when I had to go to the library, searched the computer database for books, then went through indexes, and hand copied passages for references for assignments.
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Seems to me that it depends on the approach the Certification (or just getting a certificate) takes. Microsoft, for instance, has Certified Professionals and Trainers. In that world it makes a huge difference. I got my first is 1997 on Win 95. Very few existed and few people knew what it meant. Having it on the resume meant little. Today it can mean getting a higher paying job. It means that you have proven in a verifiable way your expertise in a subject. Then again if it becomes too easy to obtain then it looses its value.
Certification does not have to be relegated to a pretty document you print at home but it would take much more effort by Logos to market its value. How can Logos get others to acknowledge its value? What value could having some extra initials after your name have at your church? Maybe some creditability. I suppose the whole Logos community needs to have taken it to heart and that might take time.
Anytime you enter into this sort of effort you should also consider what you want to get out of it long term. This much money it can't be a short term warm fuzzy thing.
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