Logos Mobile Education diploma & certificates

Would be extremely interested, and it would insure I would buy every course available.

Super.Tramp said:

I would definitely go for it if we could get academic pricing for 6 months or so.

Haha, very cheeky. [;)]..... I'm sure others would buy in if that's the case.

Super.Tramp said:

I am a little surprised there are not more people with something to say in this regard. Is there a lack of interest in Logos Mobile Education?

I have got to make up my mind by Tuesday when it ships.

i love the m.Ed concept. It's perfect for my needs.  Personally i see no value in a "Diploma" offered by Logos.  Since it would not be accredited it wouldn't be a diploma at all.  If anything it would devalue what Logos is offering through the m.Ed. concept - it would become like the old saying, "oh you must of got your license from a corn flakes packet"

To me m.Ed is about helping me to become a better reader of the scriptures and hence increase my understanding and application of the scriptures. Secondarily it enables me to better read, understand and evaluate the wide scope of resources I have in my Logos library as I gain deeper insight into what it is I believe about God and why I believe it.  This has flow on benefits to how I serve in my local church as a children's ministry leader, how I build up those in the bible study group I attend weekly and how I encourage those I speak with at church.  And it enables me to be ready to defend the truth in which I believe those whom I come in contact and ask me about my faith. 

I am not seeing m.Ed as simply something to complete so I can get a certificate, and I don't need a certificate to achieve or do what I outlined above - I simply need to live out may faith.  I saved off the certificates from the AM Moody Course - I completed them all - as PDF files, and haven't looked at them since and most likely never will.  In reality they have no value in that they are not accredited. But what I appreciate is I still have all the notes in Logos to refer to in the future and can still do the quizzes if choose - the only thing I can't do is submit my results to Moody. 

The m.Ed courses I have, I know have them for "life" and go back to them to refresh my understanding on a topic whenever I want.  The real value of m.Ed. Is in how it enables you to grow and that has nothing to do with getting a certificate or diploma IMHO. If being able to print such is a deciding factor is purchasing these courses I hope you haven't missed the real value of these courses.  

No, it would make no difference to me if a certificate for course completion or a diploma was offered. The only reason I bought this product was for my own edification. I have already taken almost every course in a formal academic setting. Logos MobileEd are courses I own that I can consult any time I want. Many of the courses are refreshers and many of them give me a different spin than what I had in Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. I look at these courses as just another resource in my extensive personal assistant's brain.

To clarify my position: I am very much in favor of certification. I'm just throwing thoughts out there to fill out the conversation.

Certification could be a powerful draw to get people using Logos as long as that certification has meaning and value. I.E. if certification could be traded in for credits or if denominational organizations used it as a (super-) qualification for electing assistant pastors, Sunday school teachers, worship leaders, or positions at whatever level is appropriate to each, understanding that seminary or other formal training may be a requirement for higher positions. If a number of denominational organizations were enlisted who said here are the qualifications we'd like to see met for certification and if someone is certified as having met those qualification then we will fully endorse Logos certification and will consider anyone certified as fully qualified for x position.

But would the investment required be too much? If Jack doesn't have Logos and wants to get certification, how much must he invest to get certified in Logos vs school. Base Package + n courses + Certification Fee. Could it be made available also as a DVD with workbooks to those on a budget? With strong incentives to upgrade to the full Logos package? Would that help or hurt Logos? I'm making a bit of an assumption here that the typical Logos user would benefit less from certification (as they are likely using Logos because they are already in some form of ministry), that it is those without Logos that stand to benefit most from formalized certification, mostly.

How is certification accomplished? Does Logos have to develop a "live" testing apparatus? What is Logos costs? Is it passed on in the price of the courses or is certification an option with an additional fee?

I really don't know if I'm being helpful or not. Just thinking out loud.

Randy W. Sims said:

To clarify my position: I am very much in favor of certification. I'm just throwing thoughts out there to fill out the conversation.

Certification could be a powerful draw to get people using Logos as long as that certification has meaning and value. I.E. if certification could be traded in for credits or if denominational organizations used it as a (super-) qualification for electing assistant pastors, Sunday school teachers, worship leaders, or positions at whatever level is appropriate to each, understanding that seminary or other formal training may be a requirement for higher positions. If a number of denominational organizations were enlisted who said here are the qualifications we'd like to see met for certification and if someone is certified as having met those qualification then we will fully endorse Logos certification and will consider anyone certified as fully qualified for x position.

But would the investment required be too much? If Jack doesn't have Logos and wants to get certification, how much must he invest to get certified in Logos vs school. Base Package + n courses + Certification Fee. Could it be made available also as a DVD with workbooks to those on a budget? With strong incentives to upgrade to the full Logos package? Would that help or hurt Logos? I'm making a bit of an assumption here that the typical Logos user would benefit less from certification (as they are likely using Logos because they are already in some form of ministry), that it is those without Logos that stand to benefit most from formalized certification, mostly.

How is certification accomplished? Does Logos have to develop a "live" testing apparatus? What is Logos costs? Is it passed on in the price of the courses or is certification an option with an additional fee?

I really don't know if I'm being helpful or not. Just thinking out loud.

A lot of depth in these courses is found in the readings from Logos resources - not to take away from the video portions though of the speakers, but is someone were to watch just the video portions on a DVD I'm not sure if that alone without the readings would be enough content for certification.  Currently there is no workbook with the courses - just transcripts of the videos so I am not sure if you are just expecting that, or something more In a workbook. 

I'm not against certification if it is done right, but simply printing out a certificate after completeing a multiple-choice exam, or printing out a 'Diploma' after completing a number of required exams just doesn't seem that important to me.  I bought these courses knowing Logos said certification wasn't something they were looking at doing and am very happy with what I have bought.

On these grounds I don't understand why people who bought AM Moody feel it is $800 wasted - you still have access to all the material and self evaluate your understanding with the quizzes.  You just can't access a web service that let's you submit the fact you passed the multiple-choice quiz and have it generate for you a 'certificate' with your name inserted.  There are many Pastors in the world who have access to much less level of resources than you do in this package. Appreciate the blessing you have in owning what you do in your Logos library. Whether or not you can print a certificate that says "John" has completed this course and that certificate has no accreditation value - like the AM Moody course is a first world problem I am sure many in the third world would love to have.  

Super.Tramp said:

I have taken this opportunity  to champion the idea of academic pricing on Logos resource purchases for enrollees in mEd. It would be an in-house decision that would not involve extra work. Critics would have no basis to object and many more people would enrol. 

[Y]  Yes, I e-mailed my sales rep and mentioned this few times in the past.  I hope if more people e-mail their sales rep and request this, Logos would listen.  I hope Logos keeps the price of the courses down after the pre-pub release, so more people have an opportunity to learn from these great resources. It is a great way to learn for lay leaders who could not attend bible college. 

I went through the course materials and they are so far very similar to the courses I took for credits in the past, except there are no research papers, essays, and in front of class presentations.  There are good research skills taught in the mEd. courses which is great.  This beats the old days when I had to go to the library, searched the computer database for books, then went through indexes, and hand copied passages for references for assignments.  

Super.Tramp said:

I have taken this opportunity  to champion the idea of academic pricing on Logos resource purchases for enrollees in mEd. It would be an in-house decision that would not involve extra work. Critics would have no basis to object and many more people would enrol. 

Academic pricing would obviously be a great incentive, but it would cost Logos too much money. You can jump on the mEd bandwagon for just $179 - and that may come down later. That's far too low a price point to offer the substantial discounting that academic would give.

Super.Tramp said:

Right now I can enrol in one of many distance education programs that already qualify for Logos academic pricing.  (and I can do it for less than $179)

To qualify for academic pricing, you have to be on a degree accredited course taking at least three credits. Can you really do that for less that $179?

Robert Tague said:

DOC wrote: On these grounds I don't understand why people who bought AM Moody feel it is $800 wasted....

Perhaps I can help you understand my point, even if you don't agree.

1. Yes I do still have access to all the materials from the AM Moody course.  However, I also have a substantial library (printed and digital) and the AM material is, by comparison, inferior to most of the rest of my library.  It definitely was not worth the $800 purchase price.

2. The implied contract/agreement when I purchased the AM library was that Moody Institute would provide the grading and record keeping and certificates that go with the course. Which in my opinion, and I suspect was the opinion of many of the others who purchased the material, is what made it worth the purchase price.  They broke that contract/agreement.

3.  One does not have to live in the "third world" to be poor, and cut off from adequate resources.  I have lived and ministered in a rural, low income region for my entire career.  I have attempted to be a good steward of the resources (financial and otherwise) that the Lord has provided, including educational resources and opportunities.  In my opinion, the Moody AM material was not good stewardship.

i'm sorry but still don't get why one would spend $800 solely on the basis of getting a non-accredited certificate, I understand it even less when you say the material in the course is inferior to the rest your library. If you say the material is sub-standard to the rest of your library then how do you say it was worth $800 to have Moody maintain a record that you had passed a bunch of unsupervised multiple-choices quizzes?

I'm not defending Moody's actions but we have no knowledge of what led to the breakdown relate business relationship between Moody & Logos.  For all we know it could of been Logos who said the no longer wanted to distribute the AM Moody courseware because of their plans to introduce m.ED , and that was the trigger for Moody to re-asses their business relationship. I have no idea if there is any truth in that, just throwing out the thought that there may be more to Moody decision than any of us customers will ever know.

i think your last comment sums up the situation.  In hindsight you see your purchase of AM Moody Courseware was not a good one in terms of stewardship.  Is it all Moody's fault, or what about Logos? ultimately you made the choice because you wanted to be able to print a certificate. I know and understand what it is to feel you have made a bad purchasing choice.   And I get that you did not know at the time the program would end - moody should have given a longer period for users who had purchased the course to submit results and get a certificate. 

And I do know what it is to be poor in the first world - as a child my family once sat down to the dinner table and said grace despite the fact their was not a crumb of food in the house.  Having said grace the doorbell rang and it was a non-Christian neighbor. My parents had told no one of the situation yet God worked through this lady in that situation to supply our needs.  In my adult life I have been through a couple periods of extended unemployment, but God has always been gracious even when i couldn't see past myself to trust Him.  So apologies if I seem harsh in what I have said.  I do understand your disappointment just not why you would place so much value on the 'certificate'.

Thank you Super.Tramp for your input and defense.  I could not have given a better response.  I would like to add that Certificates are of value beyond a personal ego boost.  As a Bi-vocational pastor I worked in the computer and banking automation industry for many years.  The computer industry has for years relied heavily on certifications and printed certificates that were not accredited by any university.  When Microsoft and APlus and others started handing out completion certificates, many in the industry saw no value in them. Yet one would, even today, find it very hard to find employment in the industry without those pieces of paper.

I would like to thank all of you for your participation in this forum thread, but I think I will drop out of the discussion for now, since it seems to be going nowhere, may even be agitating some of us.  I had hoped that one or more of the Logos employees would have gotten involved in this discussion, especially since it was one of them (Aaron Linne) who suggested that we take this discussion to its own thread.

I will continue to monitor this thread for progress, and I look forward to seeing everyone's input on other forum threads.

Super.Tramp said:

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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:

we have no knowledge of what led to the breakdown relate business relationship between Moody & Logos.  For all we know it could of been Logos who said the no longer wanted to distribute the AM Moody courseware because of their plans to introduce m.ED , and that was the trigger for Moody to re-asses their business relationship. I have no idea if there is any truth in that

You are right. We have no idea why Moody and Logos parted ways but I doubt it had anything to do with Mobile Education. Otherwise Logos would not have started a relationship with Berean School of the Bible  

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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:

ultimately you made the choice because you wanted to be able to print a certificate.

.That is an unfair characterization of the many users who bought the AM Moody courseware. If Moody thought everyone was just doing it for a certificate they would not have added grading services to the deal. If Moody had not offered grading services many would have decided against enrolling in AM Moody.We, (yes, I spent $800 on it too), believed we were getting grading services. How would everyone feel if the Mobile Education transcripts never integrated with the other library resources? Upset, no? We just want what was promised. That includes grading and  a certificate.

I am not sure of what you are meaning by Moody offering a grading service.  The software 'graded' your quiz. Moody simply kept a record of which courses you had completed and when all the right courses were marked as completed, their web service directed you to a page that generated the appropriate certificate.  If you wanted the to print and mail you a copy, you had to pay for that service. It was not part of the money you paid. In fact the Moody system did not even maintain whether you got 100% or 60%.  If  you did not pass Logos did not show you a link to submit anything to Moody.  And from the link that did take you to Moody to submit you a completed a unit all it was was a code to alert the system you had completed that particular unit.  Maybe you can explain what grading they were offering because I am not seeing them offering any such service - all I saw them offering was maintenance of a checklist.

I'm not sure either how I have characterized anyone, and certainly did not intended to do so. You yourself and others said getting the certificate was part of your decision to purchase the course.  I was simply reflecting back that fact and my lack of understanding why the certificate would be such a driving factor in deciding to purchase.  I never intended my comments to be about anyone's character.  Unfortunately we are at such opposite ends of the value we place on the certificate. For me doing these courses is to grow my understanding of the scriptures and to be able to handle them moe accurately.  And i am sure something along those lines is at the heart of your intent also. My apologies if I inadvertently characterized anyone in a negative manner. 

I do understand though your disappointment at not getting what you believe was on offer when you made the purchase and am not sure how that can be rectified - as I said in previous post Moody should have kept the service running longer than they actually did.  

Todd Phillips said:

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David Paul said:

Super.Tramp said:

Randy W. Sims said:

Here's a screen cast of a basic unit test. Multiple choice. Graded by the application.

Thank you, Randy. This was very helpful.

Helpful...and HIGHLY UNETHICAL. Speaking as an educator, this is akin to sneaking into the teacher's class and taking a copy of the test, or worse, taking a copy of the test and putting it online. Actually, it is exactly like the latter.

I realize that this wasn't done with malicious intent, but I am still flabbergasted that you would consider posting not just the questions (which is way over the line), but the answers as well!

I'm sorry, David, but help me understand how is this unethical?  This test looks like just a self-guided test that is really part of a resource.  The user can take it as many times as he wants.  There is no real grade handed out, right?  It seems its purpose is only to show the user where he is lacking, not to prove to someone else that he knows the material.   This thread is requesting something beyond that, which I think would require more stringent testing structures that Logos doesn't have in place.

You are correct Todd.  It is simply a self guided multiple choice quiz.  This is exactly what AM Moody offered hence my personal view the certificate offered by them was worthless.  If they offered true certification like the Microsoft Certification Program (of which i have completed a few) I would understand why people would have purchased the AM Moody courseware for the certificate in that situation. 

I am not against a genuine certificate being offered if the testing undertaken was done properly under true exam conditions.  I just don't agree with the value of a certificate on the basis of self-check quizzes.  And if m.Ed offered the kind of certificates that AM Moody offered I think it would devalue m.Ed. the material m.Ed offers is at a much higher level of quality and content.  AM Moody was basically a discipleship correspondence course in terms of the level of materials it offered IMHO.

I wanted to say thanks to everyone here for I think has been very valuable conversation. It is very important to us to know what your expectations and needs are when it comes to education and how we can best serve you.

I'm very excited about the future of Mobile Ed, as we have some amazing courses with stellar professors lined up. The most important thing to me is that we are creating valuable resources that you can dive into and learn from.

Thank you all for the incredibly valuable conversation here... there's lots to consider!

Super.Tramp said:

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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:

my personal view the certificate offered by them was worthles

I am perfectly fine with you holding that opinion. Just as I am with others thinking there is some added value to having them. Moody thought they had some value or they would not have offered them in the first place. 

Regardless of what each person's opinion is, I thank everyone for posting.

Off-Topic: Today my 9th grand-child was born. 

Congratulations. That's wonderful news.  

And apologies if in giving my opinion I was showing disrespect to others opinion. Sometimes I beat my drum a little to hard and loud.