Logos Mobile Education diploma & certificates
Would it make any difference to you if Logos Mobile Education offered certificates for course completion and a diploma for a course of study? I am not talking about accreditation. Just something on the order of AM Moody or Liberty Home Bible institute.
Please share your thoughts.
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I agree that some kind of diploma or recognition for the work put into completing these courses would be desirable. However, from reading other forums regarding Logos' plans for this program, it appears that the publisher is more interested in convincing other bible schools and seminaries to adopt the curriculum and ad it to their degree programs. This would of course mean that we have to purchase the curriculum and pay whatever tuition is expected by the college or seminary.
There are, however, a few internet based models that Logos could consider. For instance the free college level courses offered through Coursera.org, or udacity.com.
No, it would make no difference to me if a certificate for course completion or a diploma was offered. The only reason I bought this product was for my own edification. I have already taken almost every course in a formal academic setting. Logos MobileEd are courses I own that I can consult any time I want. Many of the courses are refreshers and many of them give me a different spin than what I had in Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. I look at these courses as just another resource in my extensive personal assistant's brain.
I wonder if offering certification would pigeonhole the product at a certain level. Could a college justify it's use in a more expensive distance learning class if anyone could gain a certificate for the same course from Logos for much less? I'm not sure if that's a valid argument, but it's the first thought that occurs to me. What if Logos deferred to other organizations? Maybe put together some tools to help various church bodies or denominational organizations to create their own certification process using Logos courseware that suits them best?
I don't know if any of that makes any kind of sense. Just throwing some wild thoughts out.
Could a college justify it's use in a more expensive distance learning class if anyone could gain a certificate for the same course from Logos for much less?
I know Liberty University gives college credit to those who have completed the Liberty Home Bible Institute. I can not remember how many hours though. Of course, that is their own in-house program.
LHBI costs around $1100. The content differs a bit.
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To clarify my position: I am very much in favor of certification. I'm just throwing thoughts out there to fill out the conversation.
Certification could be a powerful draw to get people using Logos as long as that certification has meaning and value. I.E. if certification could be traded in for credits or if denominational organizations used it as a (super-) qualification for electing assistant pastors, Sunday school teachers, worship leaders, or positions at whatever level is appropriate to each, understanding that seminary or other formal training may be a requirement for higher positions. If a number of denominational organizations were enlisted who said here are the qualifications we'd like to see met for certification and if someone is certified as having met those qualification then we will fully endorse Logos certification and will consider anyone certified as fully qualified for x position.
But would the investment required be too much? If Jack doesn't have Logos and wants to get certification, how much must he invest to get certified in Logos vs school. Base Package + n courses + Certification Fee. Could it be made available also as a DVD with workbooks to those on a budget? With strong incentives to upgrade to the full Logos package? Would that help or hurt Logos? I'm making a bit of an assumption here that the typical Logos user would benefit less from certification (as they are likely using Logos because they are already in some form of ministry), that it is those without Logos that stand to benefit most from formalized certification, mostly.
How is certification accomplished? Does Logos have to develop a "live" testing apparatus? What is Logos costs? Is it passed on in the price of the courses or is certification an option with an additional fee?
I really don't know if I'm being helpful or not. Just thinking out loud.
To clarify my position: I am very much in favor of certification. I'm just throwing thoughts out there to fill out the conversation.
Certification could be a powerful draw to get people using Logos as long as that certification has meaning and value. I.E. if certification could be traded in for credits or if denominational organizations used it as a (super-) qualification for electing assistant pastors, Sunday school teachers, worship leaders, or positions at whatever level is appropriate to each, understanding that seminary or other formal training may be a requirement for higher positions. If a number of denominational organizations were enlisted who said here are the qualifications we'd like to see met for certification and if someone is certified as having met those qualification then we will fully endorse Logos certification and will consider anyone certified as fully qualified for x position.
But would the investment required be too much? If Jack doesn't have Logos and wants to get certification, how much must he invest to get certified in Logos vs school. Base Package + n courses + Certification Fee. Could it be made available also as a DVD with workbooks to those on a budget? With strong incentives to upgrade to the full Logos package? Would that help or hurt Logos? I'm making a bit of an assumption here that the typical Logos user would benefit less from certification (as they are likely using Logos because they are already in some form of ministry), that it is those without Logos that stand to benefit most from formalized certification, mostly.
How is certification accomplished? Does Logos have to develop a "live" testing apparatus? What is Logos costs? Is it passed on in the price of the courses or is certification an option with an additional fee?
I really don't know if I'm being helpful or not. Just thinking out loud.
A lot of depth in these courses is found in the readings from Logos resources - not to take away from the video portions though of the speakers, but is someone were to watch just the video portions on a DVD I'm not sure if that alone without the readings would be enough content for certification. Currently there is no workbook with the courses - just transcripts of the videos so I am not sure if you are just expecting that, or something more In a workbook.
I'm not against certification if it is done right, but simply printing out a certificate after completeing a multiple-choice exam, or printing out a 'Diploma' after completing a number of required exams just doesn't seem that important to me. I bought these courses knowing Logos said certification wasn't something they were looking at doing and am very happy with what I have bought.
On these grounds I don't understand why people who bought AM Moody feel it is $800 wasted - you still have access to all the material and self evaluate your understanding with the quizzes. You just can't access a web service that let's you submit the fact you passed the multiple-choice quiz and have it generate for you a 'certificate' with your name inserted. There are many Pastors in the world who have access to much less level of resources than you do in this package. Appreciate the blessing you have in owning what you do in your Logos library. Whether or not you can print a certificate that says "John" has completed this course and that certificate has no accreditation value - like the AM Moody course is a first world problem I am sure many in the third world would love to have.
Seems to me that it depends on the approach the Certification (or just getting a certificate) takes. Microsoft, for instance, has Certified Professionals and Trainers. In that world it makes a huge difference. I got my first is 1997 on Win 95. Very few existed and few people knew what it meant. Having it on the resume meant little. Today it can mean getting a higher paying job. It means that you have proven in a verifiable way your expertise in a subject. Then again if it becomes too easy to obtain then it looses its value.
Certification does not have to be relegated to a pretty document you print at home but it would take much more effort by Logos to market its value. How can Logos get others to acknowledge its value? What value could having some extra initials after your name have at your church? Maybe some creditability. I suppose the whole Logos community needs to have taken it to heart and that might take time.
Anytime you enter into this sort of effort you should also consider what you want to get out of it long term. This much money it can't be a short term warm fuzzy thing.
I would like to see a certificate of completion for Mobile eD course. I'm not talking about certification or a diploma that I can transfer but it would be nice to have a "Certificate of Completion for Bible Doctrine and Foundations" from Logos Mobile eD. While many of many people, especially lay people don't have the formal education that a lot of Pastors do it is something that they can show they have completed the courses. I'm not talking about something that would give formal recognition by a denomination or body but something that a person could hang on their wall and say "I completed this".
A simple certificate of completion from Logos. I know I could go print my own certificate saying that I completed it but I could print certificates for a lot of things. Me making up my own certificate really has no meaning while a certificate from Logos saying I completed the course would have more meaning, at least personally, a sense of accomplishment that I complete it.
I would like to see a certificate of completion for Mobile eD course. I'm not talking about certification or a diploma that I can transfer but it would be nice to have a "Certificate of Completion for Bible Doctrine and Foundations" from Logos Mobile eD. While many of many people, especially lay people don't have the formal education that a lot of Pastors do it is something that they can show they have completed the courses. I'm not talking about something that would give formal recognition by a denomination or body but something that a person could hang on their wall and say "I completed this".
A simple certificate of completion from Logos. I know I could go print my own certificate saying that I completed it but I could print certificates for a lot of things. Me making up my own certificate really has no meaning while a certificate from Logos saying I completed the course would have more meaning, at least personally, a sense of accomplishment that I complete it.
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Would it make any difference to you if Logos Mobile Education offered certificates for course completion and a diploma for a course of study?
It would make a huge difference to me and I would be interested to know if Logos has considered this. I'm a pastor and I'm taking a class in church planting right now in preparation for planting a church. One of the things we are chewing over is how to train future leaders. On one hand, there are benefits to the traditional model where you send someone off to seminary to get their MDiv and then they return to be used in ministry however. But, there are also limits to that. At the same time, sending someone out on mission with no formal education--my formal education has been priceless--can be very foolish.
I say all that to say this: I would definitely use Logos and Mobile Ed to train leaders from within the church. This way they can get the formal education (the book work) through Logos and on the job ministry and philosophy training. But it seems to me that it would need some form of certification at the end of the program. Like maybe you get a certification of completion for completing the foundations package and then they send you some sort of flashy metallic sticker as you complete other packages. That way the pastors I train up have a piece of paper to frame when they plant a new church and they have some credibility.
Here's the shortcoming for my model. Let's say I train a pastor in the way I described above (similar to, I got my BA online while I was serving as an intern youth pastor). Then this pastor wants to continue his education. He may or may not have any junior college or a BA at this point and could feel that all his time in education was a waste. I know some schools will let you test out of biblical and theological fundamentals and take elective credits instead, but that still leaves the pastor with little room to get further education--at least without doing a LOT of work to catch his 'piece of paper' up to his education.
I guess a follow up question would be this:
Shouldn't Logos have a more structured form of certification (even if its not accredited) for the cost?
I get all the benefits of having it within Logos and that the courses are more structured than other online lecture courses, but the cost is still too much for what is offered in my opinion. The program needs a little more umphhh.
On the other hand, $500 a year for doing the monthly classes, sure you have to select from what's offered in a given month, but that's a bargain.
What is AM Moody?
What is AM Moody?
AM Moody was a joint venture between Moody Distance Learning and Logos.
It was sort of like Mobile Ed in that each of the 32 Courses was broken into chapters with exams at the end of every third Chapter.
In addition to the lesson there were readings called "Opportunities for Deeper Study" which may or not be in your current package. You would submit your exam results to the Moody website and after you completed the course you could download a certificate of completion.
The only real differences between Mobile Ed and AM Moody, in my humble opinion, are there were no videos and the it didn't look as sleek.
I was about half way through the courses when I received an email stating no more exam submissions and no more certificates. They shut the program down I guess.
I find value in the courses still when I need to brush up on something I once knew but have forgotten.
I hope that answers your question.
Would be extremely interested, and it would insure I would buy every course available.
I think I would too.
I would definitely go for it if we could get academic pricing for 6 months or so.
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Haha, very cheeky. [;)]..... I'm sure others would buy in if that's the case.
Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!
Oh, but I was serious.
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Do the Mobile Education courses have any testing or exams?
How would Logos know when someone completes a course?
Would my 14 year old son be allowed to use a course?
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yes there is end of unit quiz + mid and end of course quiz