FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop

The new resource toolbar has made it to the desktop app and is now available for beta testing in version 36 Beta 3!

As we all know, the desktop app has a world of functionality inside it. That is, if you know the right places to click. We often hear that our app is confusing for new users, so we took that feedback, (along with the feedback from the web resource toolbar) and focused on improving the discoverability and intuitiveness of the buttons on the toolbar.

Here’s what you can expect from our revamped resource toolbar:

Simple: We’ve simplified the layout and made the buttons more explanatory, so you can focus on studying the Word instead of getting bogged down by learning all of the icons.
Clear: Each button is carefully designed to represent its function, making it easier than ever to find the tool you need.
Quick: Everything you need is just 1 or 2 clicks away, instead of several clicks.

It’s important to note that this toolbar will not release to version 36 stable. It will remain in beta throughout the v37 beta cycle. We are releasing this feature earlier than we usually release new beta features, in order to allot more time for feedback from you. That being said, we’re still working on some polishing. We’d value your feedback on this, but please keep in mind that it’s not fully finished yet.

So, try out the new toolbar and let us know what you think in this forum thread. We can’t wait to hear from you!

Other Important Things to Note:

This change is not related to the application toolbar. It is the resource toolbar, which is only for book resources.
This feature requires a license. If you don’t already subscribe, you can get a temporary license for the features marked with an asterisk during the beta period by becoming a follower of this Faithlife group.

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Comments

Kenneth Neighoff

I like using it on the web app. Look forward to using it on the desktop app.

Jonathan Huber

I admit not having used it yet since I don't use the web app and am not on the beta stream, but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.) The menu bar is really under-utilized with Logos.

Paul

In general, yes, it does make features more visually discoverable. I would also like it to make keyboard shortcuts more discoverable as well.

For example, on the home tab (is tab the right term?) hovering over the info button on info shows the keyboard shortcut of ⇧⌘I and hovering on help shows F1. On the view tab, hovering over full screen gives the keyboard shortcut of ⌥⌘R.

However, I did not see any other keyboard shortcuts and some keyboard shortcuts were removed from the three dot menu. In my brief test, the old shortcuts still work, but they are not discoverable. Exception is inline search. The ⇧⌘F no longer opens inline search.

⇧⌘C - Show/Hide left sidebar
⌘P - Print/Export
⌥⌘C - Copy link
⌥⌘F - Float panel
⇧⌘D - Duplicate tab/panel

Also, there are no longer copy link options (HTML, L4, URL, etc.)

I look forward to seeing how this might help new Logos users.

Paul

I admit not having used it yet since I don't use the web app and am not on the beta stream, but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.) The menu bar is really under-utilized with Logos.

Making this a collapsable bar would be nice, like the location bar.

MJ. Smith

When testing the parallel books option, the parallel resources window closed and when reopened showed the change. The close/reopen is a bug. it should simply move to the new view.

EDIT: this is working correctly now

MJ. Smith

but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you talking about the resource menu/tool bar or the application menu/toolbar? If I take you to mean the former, I don't understand because that is what it currently is doing. If I take you to mean the latter, it makes no sense because the options apply to and show for individual resources.

Mark

collapsable

The more that can be put into a collapsable toolbar with the ability if one wants to expand it as we see it now on the web app, would be very ideal. Why not allow the user to decide what he/she wants in the toolbar?

Graham Criddle

Thanks for this Ali - I have enjoyed using this toolbar on web and pleased to see it arriving on desktop.

I've been comparing it with V35 stable and noted a few things:

1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar

2) I'm not getting any Visual Filters shown for the ESV - and I do have some Visual Filters that apply to this translation (is it possible that some background information is being built and this will appear in time?)

3) I find it strange that Insights and Info are on the Home menu as opposed to the View one (and I know the web app works the same way!)

4) In general, I like the idea of removing things from the panel menu wherever possible - but some things seem to have been lost!

a) Show Inline Search (Ctrl/Cmd-F)

b) Some of the panel copy options - I can see Copy as URL but not HTML, L4, WIKI, RL (I know this has been mentioned in previous feedback in this thread). I remember a discussion about some of these going, are they being deprecated

c) Help features - Help about this feature, discuss this feature, show help card

Thoughts / insights on any of the above really appreciated!

Thanks, Graham

MJ. Smith

The Help Center function should be up a level - it is needed for all sub-toolbars not just the main one.

MJ. Smith

I know it is not yet what has been implemented but I would like to see the selection of elements shown in the interlinear pane changed to be the same method that is used for the inline interlinear.

MJ. Smith

Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?

Tim Deahl

I'm like a few others, PLEASE include a way to collapse this expanded toolbar. When the new toolbar first opened, my response was "Yikes!" Far too much clutter, especially when one has multiple panels open on the screen, each one duplicating the same toolbar. An option in "Program Setting" to hide these expanded toolbars would be wonderful--the sooner the better.

MJ. Smith

PLEASE include a way to collapse this expanded toolbar

It does collapse into a single line - just click the active option. Are you asking to be able to completely hide the tool bar by sliding it behind the tab?

Chris Elford

Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?

You don't have to click on the "here", just click on "New".

Chris Elford

1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar

I think it is at the bottom of the list in an expandable sublist.

Antony Brennan

1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar

I think it is at the bottom of the list in an expandable sublist.

I think it is under notes, the first button on the left.

Antony Brennan

Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?

I have just been clicking on the button itself. The popup should be changed to read "Click to share your thoughts." No matter how quick I am I cannot click on the underlined here

Graham Criddle

1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar

I think it is at the bottom of the list in an expandable sublist.

I think it is under notes, the first button on the left.

Thanks Antony and Chris - I missed it

@Logos - following up on that

It does show at the bottom as below

but we need to scroll past all the in-version notebooks to get there. Can we have the option to collapse the set of in-version notebooks so it is easier to get to this second set?

And, as far as I can see, even when the corresponding set is enabled, the icon does not show it and it isn't possible to see / select / deselect the list of included notebooks

NB.Mick

Simple: We’ve simplified the layout and made the buttons more explanatory, so you can focus on studying the Word instead of getting bogged down by learning all of the icons.

Clear: Each button is carefully designed to represent its function, making it easier than ever to find the tool you need.

Quick: Everything you need is just 1 or 2 clicks away, instead of several clicks.

Hm. One of the first things I looked for was Print/Export. Didn't find it at first, since it is hidden under Share (now I know and can somehow understand the rationale, but it didn't occur to me to look there - moreover since Share in a normal two-tab layout on my 17" laptop monitor is/was hidden under More... But it seems to work as before (noting that Print/Export was one of the main areas where users when asked by Logos expressed a strong desire to fix longstanding bugs and finalize the functionality)

EDIT: I now found it at a second place, under Tools (strangely in this NIV resource ony the button without text, probably that's why I overlooked it at first and saw it when I looked at this a bit more thoroughly in another book, where Print/Export is visible next to the button):

Other Important Things to Note:

We haven’t removed any existing functionality. Everything you could do in the previous toolbar is still available in this new toolbar.

It seems the former "Copy Location As..." functionality has been lost. Copy Link does the URL-Part of that, copying the resource link, but that's it. L4 links and the less-often used WIKI, RL and HTML-links seem to be removed.

It was confusing to me that there is now a Copy Special that allows the reference link to be copied as link, plain text or search parameter (a functionality still existing in the context menu under reference), but this appears only in bibles, not in other datatype-indexed books like commentaries or e.g. The Book of Concord. If you still are deciding about that: I like seeing this in the main toolbar, but please leave the button visible all times instead of not showing it - and make it available in all indexed resources. But in the interest of saving space, this is not a must-have if you keep it in the context menu.

Donovan R. Palmer

This is a question because I can't run the beta on a dedicated machine...

Question: How does this change effect the search bar?

Background: In my workflow, I tend to have the search bar always open on Bible tabs. I guess in my use case, I tend to treat it like the reference box as something I always need access with Bibles because I am at times more text focused, than reference.

Is there the option to run it this way always open, or in this new arrangement does it disappear every time I select anything else from the new toolbar? In an ideal world, I'd like to keep it or pin it open.

Donovan R. Palmer

It seems the former "Copy Location As..." functionality has been lost. Copy Link does the URL-Part of that, copying the resource link, but that's it. L4 links and the less-often used WIKI, RL and HTML-links seem to be removed.

I asked the question about L4 links here too:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224536/1309721.aspx#1309721

Morgan

Surprised to see "Send Hyperlinks Here" in the three dot menu.

One small frustration, clicking on Content and Favorites opens and closes the menu as expected. For any other menu to close you have to click outside of the menu somewhere.E.g. I can't just click "History" twice to open and close it.

Ali Pope

One small frustration, clicking on Content and Favorites opens and closes the menu as expected. For any other menu to close you have to click outside of the menu somewhere.E.g. I can't just click "History" twice to open and close it.

This will be fixed as part of our polishing work.

Ali Pope

When testing the parallel books option, the parallel resources window closed and when reopened showed the change. The close/reopen is a bug. it should simply move to the new view.

I'm unable to reproduce this. The Parallel Books menu updates as soon as I change to a different book.

Gregory Lawhorn

It's an interesting change. What I find to be a problem is that the Tab key (in a Bible pane) no longer goes to the Navigation Box to allow a quick jump to another reference. It may not be an issue for some, but it runs headlong into my workflow every few minutes. The Help Center says that Shift-CMD-C will open the Navigation Menu, but also the Contents Menu. It's the Contents Menu that opens, by the way, which is fairly useless to me (unless I can't remember whether Amos comes before or after Hosea).

So far this is an unwelcome change for me. Everyone's usage differs, but I use the Resource Panel fairly rarely and certainly don't need its options within constant reach and taking up screen space.

The inability to reach the Navigation Box with a keystroke is going to slow down my sermon prep this week.

Can we get the keyboard shortcut (preferably Tab) back for the Navigation Box, and soon? Thanks.

Robert M. Warren

Don't neglect the implementation of 'Command+G' (probably Ctrl+G Win) to focus and select the resource reference box.

It's probably a pending housekeeping item, but I'll remind anyway.

Ali Pope

The tab key and CMD-G/CTRL-G shortcut will be a part of the polish work we do in the coming weeks.

Justin Gatlin

As a teacher who uses Logos with students, I think this will make teaching Logos much easier. Aesthetically, I prefer the old model, but this is a clear leap forward in functionality.

Morgan

Are there plans to include search fields for inline search? I was hoping to search the gloss field of HALOT from the new toolbar but it only has the sentence/paragraph/article options.

Donovan R. Palmer

Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...? This is also functionality that is very useful when you are working in a text centric way...

MWW

What I find to be a problem is that the Tab key (in a Bible pane) no longer goes to the Navigation Box to allow a quick jump to another reference. It may not be an issue for some, but it runs headlong into my workflow every few minutes.

I agree this is a major frustration!

Donovan R. Palmer

I am increasingly trying to use keyboard actions as opposed to taking my hands off to use a mouse. +1 to tabbing. Would love for it to drop to the search box when it is open as well.

Ali Pope

Are there plans to include search fields for inline search?

We don't have plans to do this as of right now, but I'll record this as a suggestion.

Ali Pope

Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...?

Word Lists, Visual Filters and Bibliographies will be added to the new Send to menu in the Share tab as part of our polishing work in the coming weeks.

When you create a search result in inline search, go to the Share tab, click the Send to menu and you'll see the option to send to the search panel.

Donovan R. Palmer

We have removed the HTML, L4, RL, and WIKI copy functionality due to the low amount of usage they were getting. Aside from this, we haven't removed any other functionality. If you see something missing, please let us know.

I just commented on another thread. If after many years this is the end of L4 linking, this 'new' feature has just broke a tonne of links in my research with no notice. I think there are others who have used this as well. Can this be reconsidered?

Graham Criddle

Are there plans to include search fields for inline search?

We don't have plans to do this as of right now, but I'll record this as a suggestion.

This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search

Nick Mueller

We have removed the HTML, L4, RL, and WIKI copy functionality due to the low amount of usage they were getting. Aside from this, we haven't removed any other functionality. If you see something missing, please let us know.

I just commented on another thread. If after many years this is the end of L4 linking, this 'new' feature has just broke a tonne of links in my research with no notice. I think there are others who have used this as well. Can this be reconsidered?

To be clear, existing L4 links will work just fine. We have no plans or intention to break existing L4 links.

Robert M. Warren

It seems that Jonathan is referring to the macOS Menu Bar, which appears at the very top of (just about) all apps on the Mac. It lokks like this:

And yes, Jonathan, it is a capital idea. If the macOS application standards allow an application-specific menu item, such as 'Resource', it could display all the allowable choices for the acrtive panel. For many users, it might be faster. Moreover, macOS alows user-created keyboard shortcuts (although I have not tried any).

But the greater benefit of this would be for vision-impaired Logos users pn macOS. One of the macOS accessibility features is 'Speak item under pounter', would help here to make using Logos for the vission-impaired marginally less kludgy, since Logos is not at all screenn-reader friendly.

This macOS feature always works with an app's macOS Menu Bar; it is very hit-and-miss (more misses) in the actual Logos interface.

I have followed, over the years, the suggestions of Logos User Sarah Blake LaRose and her pleas for greater Logos compliance with screen-reader technologies in the 'Accessibility' subforum. As far as I know, she has not had a response fro Logos here on the forums.

but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.)
r
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you talking about the resource menu/tool bar or the application menu/toolbar? If I take you to mean the former, I don't understand because that is what it currently is doing. If I take you to mean the latter, it makes no sense because the options apply to and show for individual resources.

Ali Pope

2) I'm not getting any Visual Filters shown for the ESV - and I do have some Visual Filters that apply to this translation (is it possible that some background information is being built and this will appear in time?)

I'm unable to reproduce this. The VF documents are showing up as expected for me. I'll have our QA team take a look.

a) Show Inline Search (Ctrl/Cmd-F)

This is a part of the polishing work we'll be doing in the coming weeks.

b) Some of the panel copy options - I can see Copy as URL but not HTML, L4, WIKI, RL (I know this has been mentioned in previous feedback in this thread). I remember a discussion about some of these going, are they being deprecated

Ah, yes! This slipped my mind. Apologies! We did remove HTML, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them. L4 was removed because of other plans we tentatively have for future development. Even though they are removed, any existing L4 links will still continue to work. That being said, we hear you all on the L4 links and are having discussions around this.

c) Help features - Help about this feature, discuss this feature, show help card

For Help about this feature if you click the Help button, it will open the correct help article in the Help Center.

Discuss this feature is planned to come later as a part of the Help Center feature.

And, the Show help card feature, along with the copy links, was intentionally left out since it gets such a low amount of usage. Apologies for missing that piece in my OP.

MWW

We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.

I use them all the time. I hope you are not going to discontinue/disable or remove them. They are very helpful to me, and I know there are other users who link to Logos through them.

Below is a forum post regarding how users can use the L4 links via the Alfred App. Logos is somewhat keyboard shortcut poor. The L4 link provides a workaround for that deficiency. These links speed up my workflow immensely.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/186597/1120734.aspx#1120734

Kevin A

Please respect the selected / unselected menu state of the resource when closed.

Currently, if I click the active option to remove the sub-menu, then close the resource, it is active again when the resource is reopened.

As this new feature uses more real estate, which I prefer more than an occasionally utilised menu, I will have to make quite a few extra clicks each time a layout is opened to close all the sub-menus.

Paul

We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.

Removing features is not an upgrade or an improvement.

Is Logos really wanting feedback? Or will this be like the forced change for the web store where feedback was negative due to inaccurate search counts? Instead of listening to feedback to improve search, Logos just removed that feature users wanted and used.

Gregory Lawhorn

The tab key and CMD-G/CTRL-G shortcut will be a part of the polish work we do in the coming weeks.

That's great news!

MJ. Smith

We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.

This appears to be a "didn't think it through" move - of source WIKI and RL are used rarely but do you really want to make it harder for the users creating the wiki for you to maintain the wiki? Do you really want to make it harder for teachers to build reading list? It is the wiki updaters, the teachers and professors, ... who introduce people to Logos and teach them to use it. And, yes, I would also suggest that HTML supports bloggers. Some "rarely used" features are critical as the basis for other uses and some are rarely used because of Logos lack of support for them (think case frames and semantic roles being removed from the context menu).

And yes, I do still hold a grudge over your removal of the sanctoral cycle support.

Show help card feature, along with the copy links, was intentionally left out since it gets such a low amount of usage.

This is partially because Logos did not revise the Help file to provide consistent information from the help file nor do a solid job of keeping the Help file up-to-date and accurate. I did not point others to the Help card because I could not consistently rely on it to give help. I do not think switching people over to the help center is a workable solution. I like the help center, especially for the definition of terms but I often find it unworkable for items where I really need it. Try using it to get information on "Factbook tags" ... because it doesn't recognize the relevant term as "Factbook tags" one gets so much "tags" and so much "Factbook" false positives as to make the Help Center unusable. I fear on providing Help, Logos is abandoning an excellent approach because they failed to re-edit the Help file in light of its new function; they are replacing it with a great idea that fails to work because it ignores the multi-word aspect of many interface element names.

Again, you should expect low usage - even lower if implemented correctly. It should be needed only 2-3 time per function per new user if it actually contains helpful information.

Donovan R. Palmer

This is partially because Logos did not revise the Help file to provide consistent information from the help file nor do a solid job of keeping the Help file up-to-date and accurate. I did not point others to the Help card because I could not consistently rely on it to give help. I do not think switching people over to the help center is a workable solution.

I would also suggest that L4 linking would be used more if it were bi-directional. There is currently no way for me to put a URI link in a Logos Note to another app. Some of us have been asking for some time for this to be considered, so for now, we have lived with partial implementation of system links.

Logos was ahead of its time providing the L4 link facility as it currently is. Now that we have other mainstream apps that can interact this way, it would be a shame to lose this functionality.

Dave Hooton

Are there plans to include search fields for inline search?

We don't have plans to do this as of right now, but I'll record this as a suggestion.

Seeing that functionality was not removed, I think this should be restored

Dr. Jack M. Jacob

So great! I love having it all on the bar. I was comfortable with it on the three dots at the end, but this is a great enhancement of something I did not know would help. Way to go!

Michael Licina Jr.

Ali, I generally like the new look and feel. The categories seem intuitive and it feels "right" in a general sense. I would make a couple of suggestions:

Others have suggested a collapsible toolbar. I agree. The toolbar is extra screen space taken that may not always be useful. In addition, some of the options are not as commonly used while others might be more beneficial. Could we make the toolbar more customizable so power users can make this toolbar match their needs, while giving the most commonly-used options as default for those users who are less experienced with Logos?
I would like to see integrations with other Logos tools via the toolbar. Some of these, such as notes and canvas, are already present. Why not have a "documents" tab that functions for any document type? Or a "guides" tab that can be used to start a workflow or open a guide?

Overall, I think this is a great start and look forward to using the toolbar. Keep up the good work, Faithlife!

MJ. Smith

For those who want to hide the resource toolbar - vote Resource View: Add setting to deactivate auto hide main navigation bar | Logos

John

It reminds me a little bit of the Ribbon toolbar in Microsoft Office. And that is a very good design. Everything you need to access is there (In Office apps), but you can also minimize or hide it to reclaim screen space.

This feature requires a license.

Am I understanding this correctly? Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?

If the former, I think this is a VERY BAD idea!

Donovan R. Palmer

Am I understanding this correctly? Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?

If the former, I think this is a VERY BAD idea!

I was thinking about this the other day. If the community is discussing a workflow or trying to help someone learn how to do something, it will be interesting to see how much confusion there is if there are variations of the basic UI. I get it if a whole tool, resource or database is not present due to a subscription or resource package, but the trying to remember how to do something in two variations of the UI might get interesting over time. Toolbars are a very fundamental reference point in software interaction.

For example, take the inline search discussion. If you have two different approaches to this feature, one in the new UI and another in the old, I can imagine the confusion it will create. Same with links. That is of course unless you keep functional parity between the old UI and the new, and the main benefit of the new UI is the way the user interacts with the software. If this is all that is left, is the differentiation better than the benefit of simplicity in a common UI. The complexity of Logos is something which new users often struggle with when they first come to the programme. Or does the onboarding of new users assumes they will subscribe and therefore not use the free base version of the software with the old UI? What happens when they unsubscribe, but keep their forever access to books and therefore transition to the old UI?

I am sure this has been thought through, but would suggest that however Logos manages this fork in the UI, communication will need to be comprehensive and clear. Common terminology, help documentation and training resources will need to be accurately defined, segmented and kept up to date.

Ali Pope

Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?

As of right now, subscribers will see the new Dynamic Toolbar and non-subscribers will see the traditional toolbar. We may make changes to this in the future, but we don’t have concrete information yet.

Jack Caviness

The new resource toolbar has made it to the desktop app and is now available for beta testing in version 36 Beta 3!

Generally, ( like the new toolbar. Realizing that it is still a work in progress, I am trying to be patient. However, it has caused a major obstacle to my normal workflow, I have been accustomed to hitting the Tab key and typing number to navigate to a different verse in a Bible text. However, with the new toolbar, this operation has become hit-or-miss. Most often, nothing happens. Sometimes a box appears around the Home button. Then, shift-tab will produce the desired result. Other times…

Ali Pope

I have been accustomed to hitting the Tab key

We have a case created to add this functionality back into the new toolbar. Thank you!

John

As of right now, subscribers will see the new Dynamic Toolbar and non-subscribers will see the traditional toolbar. We may make changes to this in the future, but we don’t have concrete information yet.

And subscribers will have the option to choose to continue using the old one if they prefer?

Dave Hooton

I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings

We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.

Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?

Maintenance would be just as "massive" if the interface is restricted to subscribers. If it will be withheld from non-subscribers then you may as well have an option for subscribers to switch.

How will you respond to the TOC lag issue in v35, or other issues that will arise with the "non-subscriber" interface? I note that the lag is minimal, but still noticeable, compared to tabs without TOC in the "subscriber" interface.

Pitrell

Others have suggested a collapsible toolbar. I agree. The toolbar is extra screen space taken that may not always be useful. In addition, some of the options are not as commonly used while others might be more beneficial. Could we make the toolbar more customizable so power users can make this toolbar match their needs, while giving the most commonly-used options as default for those users who are less experienced with Logos?

Good suggestion!

Mike Colburn

I like where this idea is going, but it would be much more efficient to have the toggle for each main item on the right side of the button. This way, you can toggle the current setup features without having to click twice, once to open the menu and twice to toggle the feature.

MJ. Smith

The table of contents, favorites, and history are grouped together by the dividing line following history. This causes the user to think of the group as the left sidebar group. However, the styling of history is that of a popup. Shouldn't it also be formatted as a sidebar?

MJ. Smith

I ran a search which generated results in my NRSV but the step size menu did not update to show the search results option. I had to close and reopen to get the search result option to show.

MJ. Smith

Just a think about ... "other" is usually the end of a list ... if you've read through the list and not found what you want you check "other". I realize these are in alphabetical order but is that actually best in this case?

MJ. Smith

The Full Screen button has the same text in it both when I am and when I am not in full screen mode - I would expect the text to toggle between full screen and "previous size"

Frank Sauer

I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings
We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.
Changes to the program interface for some users, but not others? Or is this limited access only for the beta testing period?

As of right now, subscribers will see the new Dynamic Toolbar and non-subscribers will see the traditional toolbar. We may make changes to this in the future, but we don’t have concrete information yet.

Maintenance would be just as "massive" if the interface is restricted to subscribers. If it will be withheld from non-subscribers then you may as well have an option for subscribers to switch.

How will you respond to the TOC lag issue in v35, or other issues that will arise with the "non-subscriber" interface? I note that the lag is minimal, but still noticeable, compared to tabs without TOC in the "subscriber" interface.

That was my thought when I first read the response to my question.... Forcing long time users or "power users" to change their usage to attract new people with "easy" use - is counter productive for the users who kept you in business....

I REALLY hope that they don't force this new toolbar on all users - but decisions like this are why I am not buying anything - I don't want to provide revenue to a company going in a direction I'm not a fan of, as well as messing up the overall experience for me as a long time user.

They (Logos) want to talk about the advances of technology, yet ignore it in relation to something like allowing toolbar options - whether not forcing this new thing on users or even the ability to customize the toolbar(s) to a users workflow - optional and customizable toolbars have been around for how long?

MJ. Smith

Summary of requests and bug requests to aid in further testing

1. Mac specific:

I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.)

2. Either already present or a request to completely slide under the tab:

Making this a collapsable bar would be nice, like the location bar.

3. Lost features some with extended discussions:

a) Show Inline Search (Ctrl/Cmd-F)

b) Some of the panel copy options - I can see Copy as URL but not HTML, L4, WIKI, RL (I know this has been mentioned in previous feedback in this thread). I remember a discussion about some of these going, are they being deprecated

c) Help features - Help about this feature, discuss this feature, show help card

4. Location of Help

The Help Center function should be up a level - it is needed for all sub-toolbars not just the main one.

5. Interlinear pane data selection location:

I would like to see the selection of elements shown in the interlinear pane changed to be the same method that is used for the inline interlinear.

6. Duration of popup:

Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?

7. Title of "new" popup:

The popup should be changed to read "Click to share your thoughts." No matter how quick I am I cannot click on the underlined here

8. Collapsible notebooks list likely applicable to other lists:

Can we have the option to collapse the set of in-version notebooks so it is easier to get to this second set?

And, as far as I can see, even when the corresponding set is enabled, the icon does not show it and it isn't possible to see / select / deselect the list of included notebooks

9. Reading list support:

Where is the support for reading lists in the copy links function?

10. location of functions:

I'm not sure the location of reading plans makes sense.

....

Separating formatting and view feels confusing because both change what you are seeing. These also tend to be what I change the most. Showing and hiding discourse features or interlinear features etc. I wonder if interlinear belongs with the formatting really?

Ideally I'd like to be able to prioritise a couple of configurations... I like using left and right arrows to switch between Bibles... it would actually make my study easier to be able to switch between 3 different views of the ESV that way too.

11. Copy special:

It was confusing to me that there is now a Copy Special that allows the reference link to be copied as link, plain text or search parameter (a functionality still existing in the context menu under reference), but this appears only in bibles, not in other datatype-indexed books like commentaries or e.g. The Book of Concord. If you still are deciding about that: I like seeing this in the main toolbar, but please leave the button visible all times instead of not showing it - and make it available in all indexed resources. But in the interest of saving space, this is not a must-have if you keep it in the context menu.

12. Menu malfunction:

One small frustration, clicking on Content and Favorites opens and closes the menu as expected. For any other menu to close you have to click outside of the menu somewhere.E.g. I can't just click "History" twice to open and close it.

This will be fixed as part of our polishing work.

13. Tab to reference box

The inability to reach the Navigation Box with a keystroke is going to slow down my sermon prep this week.

Can we get the keyboard shortcut (preferably Tab) back for the Navigation Box, and soon?

The tab key and CMD-G/CTRL-G shortcut will be a part of the polish work we do in the coming weeks.

14. Inline search capabilities return a major issue:

Are there plans to include search fields for inline search?

15. Send to various documents:

Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...?

Word Lists, Visual Filters and Bibliographies will be added to the new Send to menu in the Share tab as part of our polishing work in the coming weeks.

When you create a search result in inline search, go to the Share tab, click the Send to menu and you'll see the option to send to the search panel.

16. Preserve last state of menus:

Please respect the selected / unselected menu state of the resource when closed.

17. Morph attribute selection menu error:

I was experimenting with using morph searches in the new inline search and noted that the picker doesn't update the search string as you choose morph options

18. Option to retain static resource panel menu:

I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings

We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.

19. Add keyboard shortcuts often mentioned in connection with other features:

Please add shortcuts. As a non-English speaking user, the translation panel is my daily (!) companion and it would be nice to be able to open and close it as quickly as possible.

20. Customizable and other enhancements:

...Could we make the toolbar more customizable so power users can make this toolbar match their needs, while giving the most commonly-used options as default for those users who are less experienced with Logos?

I would like to see integrations with other Logos tools via the toolbar. Some of these, such as notes and canvas, are already present. Why not have a "documents" tab that functions for any document type? Or a "guides" tab that can be used to start a workflow or open a guide?

21. Updating navigation unit delayed:

I ran a search which generated results in my NRSV but the step size menu did not update to show the search results option. I had to close and reopen to get the search result option to show.

22. Location of "other" option on media:

Just a think about ... "other" is usually the end of a list ... if you've read through the list and not found what you want you check "other". I realize these are in alphabetical order but is that actually best in this case?

23. Full screen option name does not toggle:

The Full Screen button has the same text in it both when I am and when I am not in full screen mode - I would expect the text to toggle between full screen and "previous size"

24. Visual filter navigation enhancement:

Suggested improvement to visual filter navigation:
When navigating to the next selected text of a visual filter, it would be helpful to be able to set an option to:

go to the next selected text of any filter(s) - the current behavior

go to the next selected text in the same filter

go to the next selected text in the same style (i.e. rule and filter match)

25. Location of Find:

I do not like "Find" being orphaned in the panel menu. It belongs in the resource menu.

26. Limitation of right-click history display:

I was surprised/displeased when the history immediately before the reference box required that I use the active (not grayed out) caret to right click to get the history. I would expect either caret to always give me the history menu.

27. Equivalent function retention via collections:

I would like to see the equivalency function preserved by the creation of shared collections set for parallel resources with titles beginning with EQUIVALENT. It would set the stage for Logos to claim to consider carefully the functionality being removed and how to replicate that functionality going forward.

Added:

28. Behavior of New flag;

The New option with its link to provide feedback disappears in a narrow pane rather than slipping under more or shorting the option list to retain its position.

29. History menu not usable:

This bug directly affects the usability of the Resource panel toolbar -->Home --> History menu and Resource panel toolbar --> right click History menu. No difference in values is visible.

30. Emphasis menu working correctly?:

Is the Emphasis menu truly dynamic? I can't get the corresponding words to work. As any enhancement it would be useful to have a current Factbook entry following the Current dictionary entry.

31. Multi-page parallel resource menu:

When using the parallel resources menu, when there are two pages, changing the page closes the menu and requires an re-open to show the requested page.

32. Return Help card:

Please return the Help card ... it is very useful in teaching application where one needs a sentence or two of explanation not a 5 minute video or 2 minute reading break.

33. Navigation of inline search results:

I find the new Inline search more complicated than before. For instance I don't see the usual up and down arrows to look at the results

34. Factbook tag failure:

not only is there no factbook tag option, but when one tries to add Factbook tags the option and the value appear to work but they don't create the Factbook tag.

I'll use this to remember what to test in the next iteration - just thought a few others might find it useful.

Antony Brennan

Summary of requests and bug requests to aid in further testing

Logos should pay you for your great work.

MJ. Smith

The New option with its link to provide feedback disappears in a narrow pane rather than slipping under more or shorting the option list to retain its position. Note this is on a Logos supplied layout.

MJ. Smith

This bug directly affects the usability of the Resource panel toolbar -->Home --> History menu and Resource panel toolbar --> right click History menu. No difference in values is visible.

MJ. Smith

Is the Emphasis menu truly dynamic? I can't get the corresponding words to work. As any enhancement it would be useful to have a current Factbook entry following the Current dictionary entry.

Marco Ceccarelli

Hello. I find the new Inline search more complicated than before. For instance I don't see the usual up and down arrows to look at the results

MJ. Smith

For instance I don't see the usual up and down arrows to look at the results

They are under home. You may wish to request that they also be under search.

Marco Ceccarelli

I just don't understand. Under Home there is no Inline Search

MJ. Smith

Under Home there is no Inline Search

No but the navigation arrows for next/previous results are there.

Ali Pope

And subscribers will have the option to choose to continue using the old one if they prefer?

No. The new toolbar will be the only option for subscribers. Likewise, the old toolbar will be the only option for non-subscribers.

Ali Pope

This bug directly affects the usability of the Resource panel toolbar -->Home --> History menu and Resource panel toolbar --> right click History menu. No difference in values is visible.

I can reproduce and have created a case. Thank you, MJ!

Ali Pope

Summary of requests and bug requests to aid in further testing

Thank you for this summary, MJ! We really appreciate your help, especially with the new toolbar!

Ali Pope

I have been accustomed to hitting the Tab key

We have a case created to add this functionality back into the new toolbar. Thank you!

UPDATE: We've investigated the effort to add the Tab key --> Reference box functionality back into the toolbar and have decided this won't be possible. We will still reinstate the Cmd-G/Ctrl-G functionality, so we ask that those of you who have been used to using the Tab key shortcut to begin using the Cmd-G/Ctrl-G shortcut instead.We know this may be a difficult change for many of you and we apologize that we can't get this added back in!

Paul

No. The new toolbar will be the only option for subscribers. Likewise, the old toolbar will be the only option for non-subscribers.

UPDATE: We've investigated the effort to add the Tab key --> Reference box functionality back into the toolbar and have decided this won't be possible. We will still reinstate the Cmd-G/Ctrl-G functionality, so we ask that those of you who have been used to using the Tab key shortcut to begin using the Cmd-G/Ctrl-G shortcut instead.We know this may be a difficult change for many of you and we apologize that we can't get this added back in!

Why penalize subscribers? Are you wanting people to un-subscribe?

The new interface is more clicks and now changing keyboard shortcuts.

Morgan

UPDATE: We've investigated the effort to add the Tab key --> Reference box functionality back into the toolbar and have decided this won't be possible. We will still reinstate the Cmd-G/Ctrl-G functionality, so we ask that those of you who have been used to using the Tab key shortcut to begin using the Cmd-G/Ctrl-G shortcut instead.We know this may be a difficult change for many of you and we apologize that we can't get this added back in!

This just sounds like a regression in two areas now - tab key and a dumbed down inline search.

Jack Caviness

I have been accustomed to hitting the Tab key

We have a case created to add this functionality back into the new toolbar. Thank you!

UPDATE: We've investigated the effort to add the Tab key --> Reference box functionality back into the toolbar and have decided this won't be possible.

Major bummer! The more I use this new and "improved" toolbar, the less I like it.

Anderson Abreu

I'm a Logos enthusiast and welcome any improvements or new features. I'm traveling and I don't have a computer, so I couldn't test the new toolbar, but I could see the change from the images.

Although I'm an enthusiast, unfortunately if this new toolbar doesn't have the option to hide the labels/titles it will be horrible for me. Having the labels on the translator, insight and summarization tabs is a lot for a space that I had left a suggestion in the feedback for it to be better used.

I believe that having more things at hand and with just a few clicks is very good. But I think it would be even better if it came with a less cluttered look. I want to focus on reading content (bibles and books), not menus. I know there are people who may prefer labels, I prefer clean icons.

Windows has the option to hide application labels from the taskbar, and having this option in the new Logos toolbar would be perfect and allow everyone to customize it to their preference and way of using it.

Tim Hensler

I don't see the Parallel Resources tool. Did I miss seeing it?

If it's not there (yet), please add it. Maybe to the right of "Link Set" on the Home menu, or to the right of "Locator bar" on the View menu?

Thanks.

Ali Pope

I don't see the Parallel Resources tool. Did I miss seeing it?

Justin Gatlin

I didn't notice it before, but I really hate the forward arrow that disappears when there is nowhere forward to go. Having it present, but grayed out, makes it much more obvious what the arrow does.

Justin Gatlin

A minor piece of feedback about the toolbar: When I send a search to inline search from the main search panel, I expect the search tab to be active instead of the home tab. I don't know why but the current behavior feels wrong.

Marco Ceccarelli

Just to report something one may be already aware ... Factbook tags tool (under Formatting) is absent in all books except bibles

Mark Barnes (Logos)

Just to report something one may be already aware ... Factbook tags tool (under Formatting) is absent in all books except bibles

Thanks. Yes, we're hoping to fix that bug soon.

I like the new toolbar, a lot even!

Here's three minor points of feedback:

1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).

2. Buttons that expand a sub-menu (like 'Link set', 'History' and 'Step to next / previous') should collapse on second click (when expanded), now they blink back up. If this makes sense.

3. The 'New'-label guides the attention a bit too much, please allow us to hide it during beta-testing.

Here's a screencast demonstrating the first two.

Michael Licina Jr.

1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).

2. Buttons that expand a sub-menu (like 'Link set', 'History' and 'Step to next / previous') should collapse on second click (when expanded), now they blink back up. If this makes sense.

3. The 'New'-label guides the attention a bit too much, please allow us to hide it during beta-testing.

I agree with all of these.

Aaron Hamilton

The table of contents, favorites, and history are grouped together by the dividing line following history. This causes the user to think of the group as the left sidebar group. However, the styling of history is that of a popup. Shouldn't it also be formatted as a sidebar?

I agree that having history open a left sidebar would feel more intuitive. In addition, it would create additional space to more comfortably navigate.

Antony Brennan

Not sure of this has been mentioned yet

In Desktop If I open a resource and click on Favourites in the Resource Toolbar I can add a folder to the favourites. This folder also shows up in the Favourites folder in the Tools feature on the main toolbar. I can drag resources to the new folder in the resource and they also duplicate to the main Favourites view. When I close the resource in which I made the new folder and open it again the folder and contents have disappeared from the resource view but still exist in the Favourites view accessed vie the Tools feature on the main toolbar.

I have been able to duplicate this in a number of resources and I have restarted Logos and restarted my M1 MacBook Pro with the lastest production OS. I am running the latest Logos Beta released this morning Version: 36.0.733

Antony Brennan

The new resource toolbar has made it to the desktop app and is now available for beta testing in version 36 Beta 3!

So, try out the new toolbar and let us know what you think in this forum thread. We can’t wait to hear from you!

Not sure of this has been mentioned yet

Ali Pope

1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).

I can reproduce and have created a case for this. Thank you for the recording!

2. Buttons that expand a sub-menu (like 'Link set', 'History' and 'Step to next / previous') should collapse on second click (when expanded), now they blink back up. If this makes sense.

This is a part of our polish work that will release in coming weeks.

1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).

I can reproduce and have created a case for this. Thank you for the recording!

2. Buttons that expand a sub-menu (like 'Link set', 'History' and 'Step to next / previous') should collapse on second click (when expanded), now they blink back up. If this makes sense.

This is a part of our polish work that will release in coming weeks.

Great, thanks!

Ali Pope

1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).

I can reproduce and have created a case for this. Thank you for the recording!

After more investigation, it turns out this is actually expected behavior. If you slowly make the panel width narrower, you'll notice that the Info icon does the same thing - each button loses its label one at a time.

Robert M. Warren

I was only willing to read the first three or four pages of this thread, so forgive me if I am re-paving anythibng.

The new toolbar is completely exhausting for me. Granted: I am on tumbling-gravel precipice side of the blindness spectrum, but I was at least marginally functional with the former toolbar / interface.

If there will be no way to opt-out of the new toolbar, I will be forced to forgo the other benefits and drop my subscription. I'm no programmer, but as another replier has suggested, since non-subscribers will open Logos with the former toolbar, it doesn't seem to be a Manhattan-Project-level task to enable subscribers to opt-out.

DMB

... it doesn't seem to be a Manhattan-Project-level task to enable subscribers to opt-out.

Maybe a Newark-level.

I suspect they're married to that toolbar. For some reason Faithlife hates user-customizing choices. Years ago, the Tools menu was made customizable, abd rumor has it, .... well, someone's career plateau'd.

I just hope the new toolbar doesn't leak into non-subscribers' UI.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

The new toolbar is completely exhausting for me. Granted: I am on tumbling-gravel precipice side of the blindness spectrum, but I was at least marginally functional with the former toolbar / interface.

Can you help me understand your difficulties better?

Paul

Can you help me understand your difficulties better?

Too many clicks. For example, multiple book view is three clicks vs. the former one click. Too many options to read through vs. the old toolbar was a simple icon to click.

The ability to customize the toolbar would be ideal. The option of text+icon, text-only, or icon only with hover description would be great. Rearranging the order of the menu or your own custom menu panel with frequently used options.

Until then, a settings option to toggle subscription toolbar vs. non-subscription toolbar works. As a subscriber, I would prefer to have the old one back.

Dave Hooton

Can you help me understand your difficulties better?

Too many clicks. For example, multiple book view is three clicks vs. the former one click. Too many options to read through vs. the old toolbar was a simple icon to click.

The ability to customize the toolbar would be ideal. The option of text+icon, text-only, or icon only with hover description would be great. Rearranging the order of the menu or your own custom menu panel with frequently used options.

Until then, a settings option to toggle subscription toolbar vs. non-subscription toolbar works. As a subscriber, I would prefer to have the old one back.

The subscription toolbar is bad design when one panel menu is replaced with 6 additional menus whose content one has to guess, especially with the ironically name Tools menu in what used to be a Toolbar. We even have the meaningless More menu when horizontal space is lacking on top of the extra vertical space/line. At least we knew where to go for additional functions with the "non-subscription" Panel menu.

Robert M. Warren

Can you help me understand your difficulties better?

Thanks. Actually, this is more a Robert / Life Itself issue. If I had more carefully worded my reply, I would have made it sound less disparaging of this UI and more a lamentation for a major UI change. My vision field is likely in the single digits, so a UI re-working is akin to re-arranging furniture. My main message should have been lobbying for a switcheroo option.

Since I'm confident you all put a lot of thought and work into this, I'll give it a while longer.

Jerry Bush

I like the new toolbar quite a bit! Takes some time to learn where things are, but I think it's a fairly short learning curve.

Willie

So, try out the new toolbar and let us know what you think in this forum thread.

I’m not a beta tester, so my feedback and requests reflected below are based only on what I have seen on the Webb app and read in this thread:

(1) I’m very glad that Logos primarily uses blue colors, but it is disappointing to see they apparently are planning to continue using the same extreme bright shade of blue in this toolbar and throughout the program that was originally introduced in software version 26.

Within the new resource panel toolbar, this uncomfortably bright blue is used in the top toolbar’s active category tab underline and the secondary toolbar’s active category tab icons. The accompanying blue highlights are also too bright.

This reading distraction related to the new toolbar which is also found in other parts of the resource panel could be resolved through a Feedback suggestion I’ve submitted which suggests adding an option for a user to change all UI elements currently using the extreme bright blue color back to the more comfortable blue color used at the time Logos 10 was initially released and prior to software version 26.

https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/add-an-option-to-change-all-ui-elements-currently-using-the-extreme-bright-blue-color-back-to-the-more-comfortable-blue-used-prior-to-version-26

However, some users may wish to see no bolding or highlighting of active category tabs in the new toolbar regardless of what blue color shade is used. For that purpose, I propose an additional option (perhaps in system settings) to turn off the blue bolding and highlighting of active category tabs.

(2) As others have already suggested in this thread, please allow an option for experienced users to create our own custom toolbar, removing functions we rarely use and adding those we frequently use, while maintaining a default toolbar with standard options for inexperienced users.

I personally would prefer this option on the top toolbar with the ability to toggle back and forth between custom and standard toolbars. However, if that is not possible or it is more logical to add this option to the secondary toolbar, then in order to reduce clutter, I would request the ability to temporarily hide the top toolbar while the custom secondary toolbar is open.

In this circumstance, hiding the top toolbar would be especially important if no option is added to either change the extreme bright blue used for active category tabs to a more comfortable shade of blue or to turn off the blue bolding and highlighting of active category tabs.

(3) In addition to (not instead of) the customizable toolbar options suggested above, adding additional keyboard shortcuts for frequently used features would be great.

(4) Please add an option within the system settings for resource panels to open by default with the secondary toolbar hidden. I request this because I use custom layouts with various opened resource panels. In order to comfortably read text, I will need to keep the secondary toolbar hidden within each resource panel and “show” it only when needed. It would be annoying if I have to hide the secondary toolbar of each resource panel every time I open a custom layout or new resource.

(5) Regarding the up/down arrow button on the right side of the top toolbar used to temporarily show/hide the secondary toolbar, please mute or soften its grey color shade, or add an option to do this, so I may read the text below it with less distraction.

Grey is an excellent toolbar color and this button’s minimal design is fine, but my eyes see its bolded shade as slightly overpowering most of the other top toolbar elements (except for the much more overpowering extreme bright blue active category tab). An alternative idea would be an option to remove this button and simply click in the empty space to temporarily show/hide the secondary toolbar.

(6) When the locator bar is open, it is currently hidden by clicking on the X tab on the right side of the bar. In order to reduce clutter, please add an option to hide the X tab and close the locator bar by clicking anywhere in the open space within the bar.

John Fallahee

I am coming into the beta testing a little late, so I apologize of my comments have been already sated by others. Here is my suggestion for the new tools bar:

1) Have keyboard shortcut for each item

2) Allow me to disable the text and see just icons...the menu is quite cluttered

3) After a submenu is clicked have the option for the submenu to disappear after clicking to reclaim the space automatically

MJ. Smith

I have been using this quite heavily in creating TIP for the day entries. I find that the extra clicks required are not noticeable because of the proximity of the clicks and that the new menu is generally a faster access. There are a few items such as visual filters and factbook filters that I still have to search for ... which is a real pain. But all in all I think it is one of your better redesigns.

David

New Resource Toolbar is a Cluttered Mess!

The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with a single click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes three clicks to turn it on and another three clicks to turn it off and return to the home tab. Six clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy!

There is still no "Follow Only" option for linked sets.

Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse.

I do really like the new location of "Parallel Books". That is a very nice change. It's clean and it is more intuitive.

Thanks for asking for feedback and for listening.

John Goodman

Visiting a friend and giving them some help with how to use Logos gave me opportunity to use the old toolbar for a few hours with them. I honestly miss it. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.

Fabian

Hello

I would love if I get the Info if I click on the cover image.

Anderson Abreu

1) Have keyboard shortcut for each item
2) Allow me to disable the text and see just icons...the menu is quite cluttered
3) After a submenu is clicked have the option for the submenu to disappear after clicking to reclaim the space automatically

You're right. And your three items have already been pointed out by several users since the beginning of this post.

The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with a single click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes three clicks to turn it on and another three clicks to turn it off and return to the home tab. Six clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy! (...) Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse.

I honestly miss it. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.

Every time I use the new Toolbar I can't help but think that whoever is designing it is not an active Logos user who actually uses Logos on a personal and weekly basis for their studies and sermon preparation. The team should have people like that (if they don't) and should listen to the users who have been using the software for years.

The new toolbar is making it difficult to find the things that matter most and are used most often. I'm not getting to like the Toolbar after I activated the beta also on the computer I use daily and was forced to use the bar on a daily basis. If it's kept, there's an urgent need for customization with quick access icons and shortcuts. But it seems that the users who got Logos/Verbum this far aren't being listened to.

Sorry, but that's how I feel at the moment.

Fabian

We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti

single tab goes to the delete icon instead of it selects the content of the word and we can type an new word. So you have to click more than necessary.

If you want to give us a mouse arm or an RSI, then stay with this design. Otherwise change it.

Fabian

We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti

single tab goes to the delete icon instead of it selects the content of the word and we can type an new word. So you have to click more than necessary.

If you want to give us a mouse arm or an RSI, then stay with this design. Otherwise change it.

DMB

. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.

I'm not an 'against-er'. It's just my layouts can't use the new multi-menu approach. In fact, they didn't show the old approach very good, either (couldn't choose the ordering of displayed icons, when narrowing the panel). I'm just hoping they'll stick with subscription-only for the new approach.

I could easily be wrong, but 'way-back' I remember Bob de-crying multi-level menuing (the old Windows), in favor of panels and high-use icons, as quicker/easier. The right-click panel was/is a winner.

Anderson Abreu

We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti (...) So you have to click more than necessary.

I had to resort to AI to understand the joke! It's very true lol

IA ChatGPT:

"The word "Klickibunti" seems to be a combination of two informal German words: "klicken" (to click, as in using a mouse) and "bunt" (colorful or flashy). The expression suggests a critique of software interfaces that are overly "decorated" or excessively visual, where there are many unnecessary colors and buttons, leading to a more complicated or inefficient user experience.

In practice, "Klickibunti" can be understood as a criticism of a visually exaggerated design that sacrifices usability. It's a way of saying that something requires too many clicks or interactions, with a visually overloaded interface that's more focused on appearance than functionality.

The expression would be equivalent to something like "too many clicks and colors," suggesting that simplicity has been replaced by unnecessary complexity. This fits well in the context of the criticism of Logos, which seems to have made interactions more complicated by requiring more clicks."

David

New Dynamic Toolbar is a Cluttered Mess!

I understand LOGOS vision to make LOGOS easier to learn. This desire can be clearly seen in the Dynamic toolbar. If you were using LOGOS for the first time, the Dynamic Toolbar might be a good idea. But LOGOS is making ease of use for the first time user a higher priority than functional use on an ongoing basis.

For example: The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with one click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes EIGHT clicks to turn it on / off and return to the home tab. EIGHT clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy!

Here's another example: To turn on the VISUAL FILTER TAG use to be one click on, one click off. - Now it takes 8 clicks to do the same thing! Plus the user must remember to go to: FORMATTING/EMPHASIZE/SHOW VISUAL EMPHASIS - just to use this feature. My friend, that is not easier.

Logos has gone BACKWARDS on this new Dynamic Toolbar. The only people who cannot see this are the developers. They may have gotten tunnel vision by focusing so much on the brand new LOGOS user experience - that they have forgotten the majority of their users.

In addition, there is now so much clutter in LOGOS app. It's not clean at all. It's a distracting mess of too many words at the top of every tab.

Please understand that I love new ideas, and I am a big LOGOS user / fan. But IMHO, LOGOS has put form over function when it comes to the Dynamic Toolbar. LOGOS has catered to the first time user, at the expense of the majority of their customers.

Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse. On the flip side, I do really like the new location of "Parallel Books". That is a very nice change. It's clean and it is more intuitive.

Thanks for asking for feedback and for taking the time to consider this POV.

LOGOS users - please respond or we are going to be STUCK with this poorly "redesigned" Dynamic Toolbar.

Blessings!

PS: We would still love to have a "Follow Only" option for linked sets. We have been begging for this very simple feature for a very long time.

MJ. Smith

PS: We would still love to have a "Follow Only" option for linked sets. We have been begging for this very simple feature for a very long time.

Logos provided this in the form of the multi-view panel. Because we don't know the details of the system architecture we have to trust their judgement on how to implement a feature.

Tim Deahl

Way too much clutter! More complicated, redundant than former, simpler, cleaner tool bar!

DMB

Way too much clutter! More complicated, redundant than former, simpler, cleaner tool bar!

I'm really surprised that you noticed this. It is hard to detect ... I'm just guessing that, from the quietness at Faithlife. Smiling.

DMB

Logos provided this in the form of the multi-view panel. Because we don't know the details of the system architecture we have to trust their judgement on how to implement a feature.

I've really wondered about the advisability of the MultiView (multi-book?) vs follower-links. Myself, I'm guilty of over-use of the multiviews (actually, wildly abusive). But I've wondered that most Logosians probably are not all that different from the mobile approach ... a basic layout; not too complicated.

It is probably true, the underlying link code is spagetti-ish from 2008-9. I only surmise that, watching the bugs (between resources and tools) that survive 'to this day'.

Anderson Abreu

I've really wondered about the advisability of the MultiView (multi-book?) vs follower-links. Myself, I'm guilty of over-use of the multiviews (actually, wildly abusive).

I really like the way the “Multiple Book Display” or “Multiple Book View” or “Add parallel text” works. Because, unlike “follow”, it saves where it left off and, when I open some bibles, it opens with the parallel book that I usually use. I find this fantastic for my use.

Fabian

Have I mentioned we need more shortcut-keys.

Especially to start a search. No matter which resource toolbar is active. The right shortcut-key and I can search right away.

Thanks

Frank Sauer

Way too much clutter! More complicated, redundant than former, simpler, cleaner tool bar!

I'm really surprised that you noticed this. It is hard to detect ... I'm just guessing that, from the quietness at Faithlife. Smiling.

I'm hoping that the quietness means that they are in the process of fixing the issue by allowing for users to have a choice of toolbars.

Robert M. Warren

We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti

For old Steppenwolf fans: Mouseklickenloudenboomer.

John Goodman

I'm hoping that the quietness means that they are in the process of fixing the issue by allowing for users to have a choice of toolbars.

I doubt it... I think its too close to the big event. My guess is that this is what we are stuck with.

David Taylor, Jr.

It takes some getting used to, but I think I like it.

J. T. Shortt

Just updated to 37.0 and got the "New Resource Toolbar". I am using a Surface Pro 8 and with the keyboard I can access everything. I can use my finger and touch screen it works. But with the Stylus I am not able to use the "New ResourceToolbar.

I can use the Stylus in all the other areas fine though.

Thanks for any help.

Brian Davidson

[deleted]

Larry Craig

I don't see the option to switch to a parallel resource. I miss that. Click on that and see a few dozen commentaries or lexicons.

How did you not see that?

MJ. Smith

I don't see the option to switch to a parallel resource.

The book icon just before the navigation box.

J. T. Shortt

You have to select view, then it's under the navigation box

Bob Venem

First impressions of the new dynamic toolbar:

1. Since I built a comprehensive folder system on the main toolbar, much of what is on the dynamic toolbar is redundant for me.

2. Several items that appear in the dynamic toolbar dropdowns are things for which I have no use.

3. Because of 1. and 2., the small number of items I would use which have been moved from the "three dots" menu are harder to get to than they were. Customizability (specifically, removing and adding tools to the dynamic toolbar) would greatly increase its functionality for me.

Larry Craig

You saw a parallel books option? I don't see it/

Larry Craig

thank you

whew, that was upsetting for me

Antony Brennan

You saw a parallel books option? I don't see it/

The little book icon has a drop down, click on the book to see parallel resources

Antony Brennan

by my finger bones, that is a reasonable request, I'll warrant. Or something not dissimilar from it.

Dr. Jack M. Jacob

I think this is a great and efficient use of space. It is readily available and visible making it easy to use.

Larry Craig

I did an inline search and I can't find any way to get out of it and go back to normal

MJ. Smith

There is a close icon right after the result count in the search line

Malcolm Webber

What would be really cool is if we could add our own functions to this toolbar. Customize it.

Alan Hart

Yes, I like it as it portrays more information but I do miss the left and right history keys as I was just getting very used to using them in all my resources but especially my Bibles

Graham Criddle

but I do miss the left and right history keys as I was just getting very used to using them in all my resources but especially my Bibles

There are still left and right keys (and you can right-click to get a selectable history list) to the left of the reference box

Alan Hart

wow thanks, I was looking for them by the history key and did not see them. Thank you. That is why we are a community. Blessings to you my friend. Alan

Larry Craig

I never would have imagined visual filters to be categorized as formatting. I would have put it under View.

Eli Evans (Logos)

All good feedback, and much appreciated. Don't have time to respond to everything in detail, but I wanted you to know we're listening. Thanks!

Charles Key

I like it so far. Will need time to decide what to recommend.

MJ. Smith

I still want Find moved onto the dynamic resource toolbar ...

Mike

I don't like it at all. Too many tabs. Too many clicks to get to what use to be one line of all one could need.

MJ. Smith

I don't like it at all. Too many tabs. Too many clicks to get to what use to be one line of all one could need.

It is true that it is not an improvement for everyone - for some the convenience of fitting better in narrow panels outweighs the additional clicks. I personally have found in beta testing that the additional clicks are not the problem I thought they might be because of the compactness of the area in which I click. But there are some beta testers who never came to like it.

Sean

It is true that it is not an improvement for everyone - for some the convenience of fitting better in narrow panels outweighs the additional clicks.

It was a huge trauma for me when I switched to a smaller laptop (=smaller panels) and I couldn't seem to find the parallel books button half the time. I'm thrilled with neither subscriptions nor AI, but that I can do this ⬇️ gives me great joy with this upgrade:

Mateus de Castro

Barely used it, but I love it so far. We really needed more toolbars in Logos. The more exposed the commands, the better, imo. I used to search every commentary for a passage and the toolbar with all the commentaries for that book of the Bible saves a lot of time. Especially the language features on the side and all.

Maybe some 'right click option' opening on the 'parallel books', but the option already on the new tab is a great help.

The 'view' option could use some resizing on the panels as which tabs and layout is used and their sizes. For example: the original language tabs on the left are occupy less space and the commentaries more, which makes sense. But it I would like to rearrange it to make it more proportional, or one resource tabs bigger, or even change where each one opens (left, center or right), maybe that could be done from the toolbar view option. Or maybe the 'layout' button could adapt to the task being performed.

I'm loving the toolbars. It's sorely needed on tablets, but fantastic for the PC.

Chris Heil

I still want Find moved onto the dynamic resource toolbar ...

Strongly agree! It feels like the lost little sheep all the way over there.

Justin Walker

I find this to be more clicks than I was using for the features I access on a regular basis. Intellinear was one click, now multiple, parallel now multiple, visual filters now multiple. I fail to understand how this makes it better.

I appreciate the "look" of the buttons being tied to function, but the, "Quick: Everything you need is just 1 or 2 clicks away, instead of several clicks," doesn't;t seem to be accurate to me.

I always appreciate the desire and to improve but sometimes change for the sake of change is not better. Keep the button look, go back to the way it was so I click once not multiple times.

Thanks for allowing input,

Justin

Michael Richey

I find it interesting that in order to turn on/off a feature in the new toolbar that I can't simply one click it to turn it on or off. When clicking a feature to turn it on or off, the entire dropdown opens which seems to defeat the purpose of having a dropdown arrow in the same box.

This results in a user having to make two clicks to simply turn on/off a feature... and it makes the dropdown arrow a mute point since you get the same dropdown result whether you click the arrow or not.

For example, if I want to turn on the "Emphasize" feature under "Formatting," in the picture below, I should be able to just click on "Emphasize" it to turn it on. Instead, when I click "Emphasize," not the dropdown arrow, I still get the dropdown anyway, and then have to click the toggle button in the dropdown to turn it on, and then have to click "Emphasize" again to close the dropdown. That's actually three clicks to just turn a feature on or off in the toolbar.

Many apps I've used over the years which have a dropdown arrow, it operates as a separate function to display more options if the user desires to make additional changes. As a career systems programmer for almost 40 years, this is what I've found most common and what many customers have grown accustomed to. It's just my personal opinion, but I think continuing this same standard as many other software apps that use dropdowns, not only would it be one less confusing area, but would also reduce the actions required by a user who simply wants turn a feature on or off.

Depending on what I'm working on, I've been turning the "Factbook Tags" on/off more often, but I find it a bit inefficient that it takes 3 clicks and dropdown pop-up that I don't want to see every time.

Anyway... Just my opinion. :-) Thanks for your consideration.

Kiyah

One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.

I had a thought today. In order to not divide the button into two parts (which might be confusing for new users), but still keep the same functionality, could a double click be used? For example: a single click on the interlinear button would open the drop-down menu, while a double click in quick succession would toggle interlinear options on and off. This perhaps would give users the best of both worlds?

I don't accept the premise that toggle buttons are confusing to people who use toggle functionality on literally all their other devices. Using visual cues (i.e. the different parts of the button light up when you hover over them to tell the user this is a two-part button) is a pretty straight forward way to let the user know that part of the button is toggle and the downward pointing arrow is a dropdown menu.

All the hunting through different menus and then having to hunt through dropdown menus just to turn a feature on and off has added way too many additional clicks.

For me the functions most impacted by this are the interlinear button and parallel text (multi-text view) button. I really would like the ability to just set those and then turn them on and off. And all the visual filters are spread out across different menus. I understand why but it just adds so many additional clicks. At least restore toggle functionality so that we can cut down on as many clicks as possible.

Anderson Abreu

All good feedback, and much appreciated. Don't have time to respond to everything in detail, but I wanted you to know we're listening. Thanks!

And we're happy to hear that. Thank you very much, we want the best for Logos.

Eli Evans (Logos)

we want the best for Logos

Truly! I literally couldn't ask for a better user base. Love all y'all, and I also love working on a product that actually matters to people.

Dr. Bill Moulden, M.Div., D. Min.

Where is the parallel resource button?

Rick Dobrowolski

I'll 2nd the idea to utilize Mac's menu bar for some of this. I think it would be great for Logos to utilize the menu bar a lot more.

Tom Vidal

I prefer not to use the Mac menu bar because the toolbar is connected to a panel. Moving it to the menu bar would make it confusing as to what panel one was modifying and also requires the user to move to the top of the screen whenever the user wants to make a change. That seems tedious to me.

i'm not sure if this suggestion has been made, but i'd appreciate a single, easily, and quickly accessible button or keyboard shortcut that would disable all visual filters. My idea is that it would work as a toggle that would turn back on the exact visual filters I originally had active. ... If this already exists, let me know.

Mobile (at leas ont iPad and iPhone) has essentially this feature, and it's quite useful.

David Menard

Utilizing the Mac's menu bar is the right answer for sure! I too vote for this. This would also allow Mac users to create their own custom keyboard shortcuts in the Mac OS.

I strongly dislike the Dynamic Toolbar - it's a mess. What used to be done in one click now takes several clicks. I never write on forums - but this Dynamic Toolbar is so bad that it has driven me to beg Logos to fix.

SirDragonDrop

Yes we need options because Logos is so powerful it seem like and ocean that we can sail, surf, swim and just watch. Please remember that not all options are important but options are important to all.[:)]

Ciprian Stanulescu

https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360022299852-How-do-I-create-links-to-Logos-content

John Duffy

Thanks for the revamped toolbar. But can we please have the 'New' icon in grey background, not blue. It is very distracting when trying to study. And, it doesn't look good either, as it stands out too much. Thanks

Ken F Hill

Thanks for the revamped toolbar. But can we please have the 'New' icon in grey background, not blue. It is very distracting when trying to study. And, it doesn't look good either, as it stands out too much. Thanks

I agree

Jim

In fact, get rid of it.

It currently sends you to this thread, which I found unhelpful because the first item is about an older version of Logos and starts a discussion of pros and cons of various features. I'd rather it sent me to a factual help page.