FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop

Just updated to 37.0 and got the "New Resource Toolbar". I am using a Surface Pro 8 and with the keyboard I can access everything. I can use my finger and touch screen it works. But with the Stylus I am not able to use the "New ResourceToolbar.

I can use the Stylus in all the other areas fine though.

Thanks for any help.

JT

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I don't see the option to switch to a parallel resource.  I miss that.  Click on that and see a few dozen commentaries or lexicons.

How did you not see that?

I don't see the option to switch to a parallel resource. 

The book icon just before the navigation box.

You have to select view, then it's under the navigation box

First impressions of the new dynamic toolbar:

1. Since I built a comprehensive folder system on the main toolbar, much of what is on the dynamic toolbar is redundant for me.

2. Several items that appear in the dynamic toolbar dropdowns are things for which I have no use.

3. Because of 1. and 2., the small number of items I would use which have been moved from the "three dots" menu are harder to get to than they were. Customizability (specifically, removing and adding tools to the dynamic toolbar) would greatly increase its functionality for me.

You saw a parallel books option?  I don't see it/

thank you

whew, that was upsetting for me

You saw a parallel books option?  I don't see it/

The little book icon has a drop down, click on the book to see parallel resources 

One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.

I had a thought today. In order to not divide the button into two parts (which might be confusing for new users), but still keep the same functionality, could a double click be used? For example: a single click on the interlinear button would open the drop-down menu, while a double click in quick succession would toggle interlinear options on and off. This perhaps would give users the best of both worlds? 

by my finger bones, that is a reasonable request, I'll warrant. Or something not dissimilar from it. 

I think this is a great and efficient use of space. It is readily available and visible making it easy to use.

I did an inline search and I can't find any way to get out of it and go back to normal

There is a close icon right after the result count in the search line

What would be really cool is if we could add our own functions to this toolbar. Customize it. 

Yes, I like it as it portrays more information but I do miss the left and right history keys as I was just getting very used to using them in all my resources but especially my Bibles

but I do miss the left and right history keys as I was just getting very used to using them in all my resources but especially my Bibles

There are still left and right keys (and you can right-click to get a selectable history list) to the left of the reference box

wow thanks, I was looking for them by the history key and did not see them. Thank you. That is why we are a community. Blessings to you my friend. Alan

I never would have imagined visual filters to be categorized as formatting.   I would have put it under View.

All good feedback, and much appreciated. Don't have time to respond to everything in detail, but I wanted you to know we're listening. Thanks!

I like it so far. Will need time to decide what to recommend.

I still want Find moved onto the dynamic resource toolbar ...

I don't like it at all. Too many tabs. Too many clicks to get to what use to be one line of all one could need.

I don't like it at all. Too many tabs. Too many clicks to get to what use to be one line of all one could need.

It is true that it is not an improvement for everyone - for some the convenience of fitting better in narrow panels outweighs the additional clicks. I personally have found in beta testing that the additional clicks are not the problem I thought they might be because of the compactness of the area in which I click. But there are some beta testers who never came to like it.

It is true that it is not an improvement for everyone - for some the convenience of fitting better in narrow panels outweighs the additional clicks.

It was a huge trauma for me when I switched to a smaller laptop (=smaller panels) and I couldn't seem to find the parallel books button half the time. I'm thrilled with neither subscriptions nor AI, but that I can do this ⬇️ gives me great joy with this upgrade:

Barely used it, but I love it so far. We really needed more toolbars in Logos. The more exposed the commands, the better, imo. I used to search every commentary for a passage and the toolbar with all the commentaries for that book of the Bible saves a lot of time. Especially the language features on the side and all.

Maybe some 'right click option' opening on the 'parallel books', but the option already on the new tab is a great help.

The 'view' option could use some resizing on the panels as which tabs and layout is used and their sizes. For example: the original language tabs on the left are occupy less space and the commentaries more, which makes sense. But it I would like to rearrange it to make it more proportional, or one resource tabs bigger, or even change where each one opens (left, center or right), maybe that could be done from the toolbar view option. Or maybe the 'layout' button could adapt to the task being performed.

I'm loving the toolbars. It's sorely needed on tablets, but fantastic for the PC.

I still want Find moved onto the dynamic resource toolbar ...

Strongly agree! It feels like the lost little sheep all the way over there.

I like the new toolbar but I do think Logos needs to at a minimum add hotkey shortcuts to Interlinears, Visual Filters, and other menu items that used to be one-click on/off. A customizable toolbar would be another good option that has been mentioned but I do not think the code to add it to the program is trivial. I thought Mark had mentioned adding hotkeys at one point - I was hoping it was going to be part of today's rollout.

Yes, I agree completely. The 'view' tab on the toolbar could have some formatting options, but zoom and interlinear (at least) could go back to 'outside' and be buttons on the toolbar for ease of use. They are basic for language resources and should not have been put 'inside' some tab.

I find this to be more clicks than I was using for the features I access on a regular basis. Intellinear was one click, now multiple, parallel now multiple, visual filters now multiple. I fail to understand how this makes it better. 

I appreciate the "look" of the buttons being tied to function, but the, "Quick: Everything you need is just 1 or 2 clicks away, instead of several clicks," doesn't;t seem to be accurate to me.

I always appreciate the desire and to improve but sometimes change for the sake of change is not better. Keep the button look, go back to the way it was so I click once not multiple times.

Thanks for allowing input,

Justin

I like the new toolbar but I do think Logos needs to at a minimum add hotkey shortcuts to Interlinears, Visual Filters, and other menu items that used to be one-click on/off. A customizable toolbar would be another good option that has been mentioned but I do not think the code to add it to the program is trivial. I thought Mark had mentioned adding hotkeys at one point - I was hoping it was going to be part of today's rollout.

Two items I use frequently, Parallel Text and Translate, were removed as icons on the toolbar and buried in two different menus. Additionally, I could not find hotkey combinations for either one.

If all the features of Logos (and I mean ALL) could have hotkeys either assigned, or assignable, to them, this would eliminate most of the gripes about the new toolbar, IMHO.

Hello, I just started using the new dynamic toolbar. Overall, it is a good step forward. However, when I hide the secondary toolbar to retrieve valuable screen space, it keeps coming back every time I shut down and restart Logos. Am I doing something wrong? If not, is this a bug? Or can it become a new feature, either optional or standardized? If I've hidden the secondary toolbar in a resource (e.g., my preferred Bible) I don't want to see it again unless I tell Logos to bring it back.

Thanks for considering.

Feedback…any Bible that should be in a one page, paragraph book format, does not display as such, at least not with my Premium Subscription.  John Fallahee, who has a Pro Subscription brought up the NASB95 and through the process was able to display what you would get when you are looking at it if you had it in your hand.  For me, no, it is in single column only, although you can see where the paragraphs are divided.  I tried it with the ESV, KJV and no luck duplicating the process that John Fallahee had shown in his training video, during his walk thru.  Any ideas if it is based on the Subscription Model?

I find it interesting that in order to turn on/off a feature in the new toolbar that I can't simply one click it to turn it on or off.  When clicking a feature to turn it on or off, the entire dropdown opens which seems to defeat the purpose of having a dropdown arrow in the same box.

This results in a user having to make two clicks to simply turn on/off a feature... and it makes the dropdown arrow a mute point since you get the same dropdown result whether you click the arrow or not.

For example, if I want to turn on the "Emphasize" feature under "Formatting," in the picture below, I should be able to just click on "Emphasize" it to turn it on.  Instead, when I click "Emphasize," not the dropdown arrow, I still get the dropdown anyway, and then have to click the toggle button in the dropdown to turn it on, and then have to click "Emphasize" again to close the dropdown. That's actually three clicks to just turn a feature on or off in the toolbar.

Many apps I've used over the years which have a dropdown arrow, it operates as a separate function to display more options if the user desires to make additional changes.  As a career systems programmer for almost 40 years, this is what I've found most common and what many customers have grown accustomed to.  It's just my personal opinion, but I think continuing this same standard as many other software apps that use dropdowns, not only would it be one less confusing area, but would also reduce the actions required by a user who simply wants turn a feature on or off.

Depending on what I'm working on, I've been turning the "Factbook Tags" on/off more often, but I find it a bit inefficient that it takes 3 clicks and dropdown pop-up that I don't want to see every time.

Anyway... Just my opinion. :-) Thanks for your consideration. 

One thing I feel confident saying: We're definitely working on adding some hotkeys, as well as exposing more existing hotkeys that are there but not yet showing in the UI.

I can confirm that the secondary toolbar re-appearing when you restart Logos is working as designed. That design may or may not be wrong and need to change, of course.

We're also looking seriously into other items, but I don't want to get out over my skis.

Feedback…any Bible that should be in a one page, paragraph book format, does not display as such, at least not with my Premium Subscription.  John Fallahee, who has a Pro Subscription brought up the NASB95 and through the process was able to display what you would get when you are looking at it if you had it in your hand.  For me, no, it is in single column only, although you can see where the paragraphs are divided.  I tried it with the ESV, KJV and no luck duplicating the process that John Fallahee had shown in his training video, during his walk thru.  Any ideas if it is based on the Subscription Model?

Hi Rick! I encourage you to create a new thread as your question may get lost in this one. 

I am not quite sure of your question, but I do know that there are two DIFFERENT resources with the NASB95 (paragraph and line by line). 

 For me, no, it is in single column only, although you can see where the paragraphs are divided.  I tried it with the ESV, KJV and no luck duplicating the process that John Fallahee had shown in his training video, during his walk thru.  Any ideas if it is based on the Subscription Model?

Are you looking for something like this? And I don't think it's anything to do with the subscription model

I was a little frustrated in not seeing the reverse interlinear, but I eventually figured it out. I can see the advantages.  

I regret to see another row being added to the top of the window.

We're also looking seriously into other items, but I don't want to get out over my skis.

Hopefully this includes an option between the Dynamic and Classic Toolbars.... I'd like to give Logos a chance to impress with the LFL, but have absolutely no desire for this Toolbar at this time. I have to make sure I keep a back-up copy of V36 just in case at some point it is forced on non-subscribers too.

I can confirm that the secondary toolbar re-appearing when you restart Logos is working as designed. That design may or may not be wrong and need to change, of course.

For me this design of re-appearing of the secondary toolbar after each restart of Logos is wrong. It should follow the user's decision to tuck it away and keep it there instead of knowing better.. I end up closing them after each restart. Annoying, so if you don't mind, change it to not re-appearing after a restart.

For me this design of re-appearing of the secondary toolbar after each restart of Logos is wrong. It should follow the user's decision to tuck it away and keep it there instead of knowing better.. I end up closing them after each restart. Annoying, so if you don't mind, change it to not re-appearing after a restart.

I completely agree with this. I don't want to have to hide it every time.

Justin

I regret to see another row being added to the top of the window.

If you click on the active tab, the extra line disappears.

I agree with what I've seen in the replies.  This feature brings to surface those handy tools that I would often forget to utilize.  Smart thinking, y'all.

One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.

I had a thought today. In order to not divide the button into two parts (which might be confusing for new users), but still keep the same functionality, could a double click be used? For example: a single click on the interlinear button would open the drop-down menu, while a double click in quick succession would toggle interlinear options on and off. This perhaps would give users the best of both worlds? 

I don't accept the premise that toggle buttons are confusing to people who use toggle functionality on literally all their other devices. Using visual cues (i.e. the different parts of the button light up when you hover over them to tell the user this is a two-part button) is a pretty straight forward way to let the user know that part of the button is toggle and the downward pointing arrow is a dropdown menu.

All the hunting through different menus and then having to hunt through dropdown menus just to turn a feature on and off has added way too many additional clicks.

For me the functions most impacted by this are the interlinear button and parallel text (multi-text view) button. I really would like the ability to just set those and then turn them on and off. And all the visual filters are spread out across different menus. I understand why but it just adds so many additional clicks. At least restore toggle functionality so that we can cut down on as many clicks as possible.

All good feedback, and much appreciated. Don't have time to respond to everything in detail, but I wanted you to know we're listening. Thanks!

And we're happy to hear that. Thank you very much, we want the best for Logos.

The 'view' tab on the toolbar could have some formatting options, but zoom and interlinear (at least) could go back to 'outside' and be buttons on the toolbar for ease of use. They are basic for language resources and should not have been put 'inside' some tab.

The Factbook could also be left out. But I still prefer the option of customizing by adding visible shortcuts in the toolbar

we want the best for Logos

Truly! I literally couldn't ask for a better user base. Love all y'all, and I also love working on a product that actually matters to people.

I can confirm that the secondary toolbar re-appearing when you restart Logos is working as designed. That design may or may not be wrong and need to change, of course.

For me this design of re-appearing of the secondary toolbar after each restart of Logos is wrong. It should follow the user's decision to tuck it away and keep it there instead of knowing better.. I end up closing them after each restart. Annoying, so if you don't mind, change it to not re-appearing after a restart.

I agree 100% with Luuk's assessment and request.  It has been very annoying having to close each secondary toolbar in my layout after each restart.  Please change it to not re-appear each time the program is restarted or each time a layout is re-opened.

Again, normally we don't like to preview upcoming work, but I will say that a shortcut to toggle the Inline Reverse Interlinear is coming. This will function alongside the existing shortcut Ctrl+Shift+R / Cmd+Shift+R to toggle the Reverse Interlinear Pane and will likely land in version 38. The tooltips for both will be visible in the Interlinear Options dropdown in the dynamic toolbar.

As Eli alluded to, we have some work to do internally to improve our ability to add and reliably keep track of keyboard shortcuts. But we hear you and understand that keyboard shortcuts are even more valuable now for power users with the dynamic toolbar in place.