New Policy (mine): No Purchase Download, Refund and Replace with Kindle Version

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Comments

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958

    It doesn't help, but the reason for that is that mobile resources are grouped and released weekly.

    Resources are shipped daily to the mobile apps.

    This happened most recently with the release of the HB101 mobile ed course. It was close to a week before it was available on my iPad.

    There was an error in resource publishing that delayed this particular resource for three days. This was an unusually lengthy delay and we apologise for the inconvenience in accessing your new resources promptly.

  • Kevin Byford (Faithlife)
    Kevin Byford (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 4,309

    Okie dokie. 4 hours sounds like a few hours.  I took 2 screens ... the online library with key word 'grave', and the downloaded one (11 resources).

    I think we better close up the thread, with the app not sufficiently robust to deliver a purchased book.

    Hi Denise,

    You already want to close the thread? It's taken a lot of back and forth just to get the minimum basic information from you (please see https://community.logos.com/forums/t/118697.aspx for how to post a good bug report). 

    I had really hoped you were interested in a solution this time. If your first post had been similar to the following, this thread would probably have only two posts (although, with your latest one there's a likely third post):

    1) Denise: "I purchased a resource (https://www.logos.com/product/43293/prophets-and-gravestones-an-imaginative-history-of-montanists-and-other-early-christians) and it doesn't appear in my library. I'm using the Noet app and I've gone online and restarted the app to give it enough time to sync. I'm usually offline for weeks at a time, except when I make a purchase. Screenshots attached - any suggestions?"

    2) Kevin: "We're sorry you're seeing this issue. Staying offline for weeks at a time is not recommended as when you finally do go online the app needs to catch up with things that might have changed - notes/highlights, resource updates, etc. It's good practice to go online at least once a week for a few minutes.  Since Noet doesn't support "rebuild index" (which reindexes the library so that all available books appear in the Library panel), please use "Report a Problem" under the Help menu, and then perform a fresh install of the app. Also, make sure you stay online for an hour or two afterwards and then verify if the resource is there. If not please let us know. Also note that purchased resources do not automatically download locally."

    And now, here's your reply:

    Denise: "I think we better close up the thread, with the app not sufficiently robust to deliver a purchased book."

    We love it when customers actually want a solution, and in the past if customers run into a "resource not appearing" issue, they ask us about it and we help them. I can't remember a single instance where we've worked with a customer that had a mobile-enabled resource download issue, and then we left that customer in a position where the resource was still not available on mobile.

    On the other hand, there's always a first time. Sadly, it seems you've already decided the app isn't robust because it didn't work for you one time and so you've made a blanket generalization from a specific instance. 

    As always, it's up to you if you actually want a solution or if you think this thread is just too much to bother with now. I'm hoping the former.

  • Kevin Byford (Faithlife)
    Kevin Byford (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 4,309

    for the entire library of 40,000-50,000 resources.

    Hi Mark,

    We've got well over 100,000 resources now.

  • Kevin Byford (Faithlife)
    Kevin Byford (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 4,309

    I don't think Noet generally does those things you listed, at least none I ever tried. So, ignoring the loss on the Logos desktop (search, tagging, guides, text comparison, etc), Kindle will be a good choice.

    True, but the Logos and Verbum mobile apps support search, tagging, guides, text comparison, etc. 

  • PetahChristian
    PetahChristian MVP Posts: 4,636

    I don't think Noet generally does those things you listed, at least none I ever tried. So, ignoring the loss on the Logos desktop (search, tagging, guides, text comparison, etc), Kindle will be a good choice.

    True, but the Logos and Verbum mobile apps support search, tagging, guides, text comparison, etc. 

    Kevin, I'm grateful for all you do to develop and support the (FREE) mobile apps. Thank you for not merely doing development, but also taking the time to discuss issues with your customers!

    Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

  • Mark Barnes
    Mark Barnes Member Posts: 15,432 ✭✭✭

    It doesn't help, but the reason for that is that mobile resources are grouped and released weekly.

    Resources are shipped daily to the mobile apps.

    Sorry. I'd mis-remembered this statement from Bob:

    we don't do a local index on mobile devices. (Yet. And maybe never. But that's a whole technical problem itself.) So we have to search the whole catalog on the server, and that whole catalog takes nearly 24 hours to index. But at least it only needs to be reindexed when we create a new resource, so no more than once a day. Which just barely works.

    I'd remembered that as you not being able to do a daily index, whereas Bob was saying you can just about do a daily index.

    This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958

    We made some server improvements since that statement was posted (to get the index time under 24 hours, so that resources don't (typically) experience multi-day delays before being released on mobile).

  • DMB
    DMB Member Posts: 13,427 ✭✭✭

    Petah, I'm sure you're not so naive to think the app is (FREE). Bob funded it to drive more sales (money from people's credit cards) ... and then later complained app'ers were not such avid book buyers (maybe now they are, with app users overwhelming the Faithlife coffers). 

    Kevin, I enjoy the holiday back-and-forth but did point out the problem was a re-occurring one over years, and among users. In between the app design and the server, purchases can get lost. And since I'm confident the app guys are both talented and have their pride, the cause is likely a compromise somewhere.

    At best you could say send an error report (app's not reporting problem), a text command, or re-install the app ... which I initially noted 'not'. Better to skip the trials of the (FREE) app.

    But I know you're smiling ... not to worry.

    "If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.

  • Kevin Byford (Faithlife)
    Kevin Byford (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 4,309

    Kevin, I enjoy the holiday back-and-forth but did point out the problem was a re-occurring one over years, and among users. In between the app design and the server, purchases can get lost. And since I'm confident the app guys are both talented and have their pride, the cause is likely a compromise somewhere.

    At best you could say send an error report (app's not reporting problem), a text command, or re-install the app ... which I initially noted 'not'. Better to skip the trials of the (FREE) app.

    But I know you're smiling ... not to worry.

    Thanks Denise,

    I'll make a notation on your account that this situation has been resolved to your satisfaction. It's unfortunate - I really had hope this time that you might choose to work with us instead of against us.

  • PetahChristian
    PetahChristian MVP Posts: 4,636

    Petah, I'm sure you're not so naive to think the app is (FREE).

    Having made a few free Christian apps (containing no ads or in-app purchases, and generating no income), I am aware of development costs (which come out of my pocket).

    Not everything is motivated by profit or some bottom line. For example, many developers contribute to open software, and I don't mind giving away the source code for the apps (although I'm not proud of my inexperience).

    I understand you don't think FL's app is free, that our purchases subsidise its costs, and that its purpose is to generate more revenue, but I am confident that there are mobile-only customers who never made a purchase, yet are blessed by one of FL's free apps.

    I really am sorry that you're not happy with FL's mobile app. But I don't think many of us could make something better, or even equal to it.

    Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

  • Kevin Byford (Faithlife)
    Kevin Byford (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 4,309

    Petah, 

    Thanks for sharing your app links and code.

    I'm not sure exactly how many thousands of customers use our free apps (without a purchase) but it is encouraging to know that they are indeed freely available.

  • Kevin Byford (Faithlife)
    Kevin Byford (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 4,309

    There's little question that this is a problem. It happens to me with some regularity. Some percent of the time "rebuild index" works. Some percent of the time waiting a day or two works. And some percent of the time I have to call FL because the resource should be available on mobile but hasn't been properly marked as such in their internal systems. Once that is corrected, the resource shows up.

    Donnie,

    If you would, please create a new post about these three issues with a bit more detail. Two of them appear server related, but we'd like to learn more and nail these problems down. 

    We value hearing from customers who desire a solution and are willing to work with us to help improve our apps.

  • Donnie Hale
    Donnie Hale Member Posts: 2,036

    If you would, please create a new post about these three issues with a bit more detail. Two of them appear server related, but we'd like to learn more and nail these problems down. 

    We value hearing from customers who desire a solution and are willing to work with us to help improve our apps.

    If I have the opportunity to, I will. I'm buying very few resources these days - just don't have the time or need for more.

    Donnie