Logos 8 Wishlist

Graham Criddle said:

Here's a way to go about this - and I was doing this for my own study a few weeks ago!

Right-click on an instance of God being referred to in Ephesians 1, ensure that the person God is selected on the right and click "Search -> this resource" on the left

Thank you very much Graham and KS4J!

You guys are always on top of things! This was very helpful. for this particular search. Now to remember it.

After writing my dissertation in the previous post I spent some more time on that search and eventually came up with your first solution, only in a clumsy way. I used the right click menu for each instance of the word in the chapter and just looked at the right hand side of the menu for each instance of the word there to see if it said it was God Person or Jesus Person. I didn't even think to "search this resource"[:$]

Graham,In the second screen shot you have, it shows the query <Person God> in the search box. First this is reversed from how it is shown in the right side of the context menu which is "God Person", this is inconsistent. If I were to use what shows in the context menu to manually build this query it would produce 0 results just because it is reversed. This is a problem when constructing searches. how does one know how to phrase the query? Next, How would one know to use <> around this phrase or when to use something else? What do the <> mean and how do they contribute to this search or any searches and do they mean and contribute the same thing in every search they are in? This is some of what my learning problem is. If I don't understand their purpose how can I know when and how to use them? sorry, I don't mean to pick on you. but your screen shots gave me the ammo to take a shot at searching in general. Now back to the original search we were discussing.

I also found an instance of the english word "him" in the NKJ in verse 1:11 which did not show up in the context menu as either God Person or Jesus Person. When I looked at the interlinear it shows a different Greek word. In your example above it doesn't even highlight the word "Him" in verse 1:11 that I'm referencing. A couple others weren't included in the highlight because they were not in the original Greek text but were added in the English translation for ease of reading, but that's another subject.

I also used your solution KS4J first, by using the Bible Browser. It did a great job of finding and highlighting the information I needed. The only problem is I can't do anything with the results but look at it. I'm not able to copy, paste or save it ( with highlights) other than a passage list which does not save the highlights.

I'm always very grateful for these forums and those of you who tirelessly help bail us out of our frustrations and ignorance, Thank You.

However, My point in my first post still stands, searching in Logos is extremely difficult overall. My last words  suggesting more intense  and structured training may still be a solution to my ignorance and help me and others to be more productive and self sufficient regarding searching.

Blessings

" rel="nofollow">Keep Smiling 4 Jesus said:

scooter said:

How do U cancel the search so all the yellow highlights go away?

Close the search tab (OR change search to something else). Yellow highlights appear for active search results. Using OR causes search result color change: e.g.

<Person Holy Spirit> OR <Person Jesus> OR <Person God>

Keep Smiling

Graham, U mentioned close the search panel + Keep, here, said close the search tab, or search for something else.

My challenge is I have 2 words ''permanently'' highlighted.  I bought a new book + these words were highlighted in it, as the vigor to highlight still intends.

How did I get to highlight the 2 words?  6 months ago, I went into Activities in a now-forgotten-which mobile Ed course.  The subject was these 2 words.  Now, they stay highlighted in all my resources, as I do not know how to cancel them.

So, now I do not run searches, so nothing else get a permanent stain.

Graham Criddle said:

'm intrigued to know whether you think the root problem relates to a "conceptual understanding" - such as what do the <> symbols mean - or to the detailed syntax that is required. Or, of course, both!

Sorry it took me this long to respond.

I think my answer to your question is both. I'm not sure I can explain it clearly.Remember, I said I barely made it out of high school. I admit my learning ability and reading comprehension are weak and getting weaker every year.

There must be a process for learning how to do these searches, not just a bunch of abbreviated definitions and random examples. When I read the information on searching in the various places like the wiki, I find the explanations and definitions too brief,incomplete or unintelligible, at least anything outside of boolean explanations.

There should be a step by step process for learning, first the symbols, as I stated before, What are they, Why are they, What do they... and then How are they used. Then how do we arrange them, What words and references can be used or not used with each symbol and in what order. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we wouldn't  ask a child just starting kindergarten to read or write a book on trigonometry, he doesn't even know the alphabet yet (okay, that's extreme). How did the developers learn this?

Does Bob and FL in general think this is a major problem? Do they have a handle on how many users struggle with this? maybe it is just a few of us. After all it seems like you and many others do very well with searching. I say this because I haven't see n many solutions offered up since Bob first posted the question. Most want to change the whole way of searching to Googles model. Google isn't that accurate but it is easy to use. I think everyone would be happy if we just knew how to ride the bicycle that has already been built. I know riding a bike just takes practice. the problem is most of us don't have the time to practice, we want a Tesla.

All I know is FL and others keep dangling this search carrot out there and I am hungry to use it but it keeps moving out of my reach. sorry, now I'm just frustrated. 

End Rant

Peace!

Mark Barnes said:

All this is to say that I'm suggesting you stop trying to learn the syntax, and start learning how to create the searches you need. If you have 30 minutes I'd encourage you to watch this video I created, which will begin to help you do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY5WHH6ljqI

Mark, Thank you for responding.

I would like to see the ability to create visual filters based off of syntax searches. 

Graham Criddle said:

Sorry to cause frustration - but thank you for the detailed and helpful response.

You didn't cause my frustration Graham, I just get frustrated trying to express my thoughts clearly and understandably regarding technology.

I always appreciate your help and input, as well as everyone else in these forums.

Phil Quigley said:

I would like to see the ability to create visual filters based off of syntax searches. 

Yes! [Y]

Bill said:

One thing that would be helpful in the software, would be if a search string/group were entered with an error in it such as I made, that it would flag that portion of the search string/group, highlighting it in red and possibly dropping down some suggested fixes. If that is possible.

[Y] Error checking has been an important feature lacking in Logos since the earliest days. It would go a long ways towards helping people learn to use the software for more than a simple single word concordance..

Please continue to update sermon editor.  I found the old sermon file add-in (Logos 4?) easier and more customizable.  Unless I haven't figured it out yet it seems pretty clunky still.
-points, subpoints, etc.
-slides need more flexibility than 1 point per slide.

Copying and pasting Bible text without all the footnoting. I understand copyright but not all the references etc.

Thanks for making this list.

Ken

Exporting Notes to a Word Document doesn't show attachment-points. It would be great if all other attachment-points could be exported as "see also: References"

Immanuel Koks said:

first, I wonder if a “search builder” tool might be an important priority. Logos is an amazing data source, but that data is only as accessible as your search capabilities. I think that you should keep the search command syntax for Logos Geeks. But also include  graphical user interface tool for building and combining searches.

Here is the way that Ebsco has implemented the sort of thing I would like to see on logos.

 

The things I appreciate about this sort of builder are:

1.       I can focus on my search, not the syntax. Drop boxes remind me of what options are available

2.       that I can test each part of the search separately, and then combine them.

Yes! Yes! Yes!  This is exactly the kind of thing I've tried to articulate in the past.  It would be an incredible help for new users, and a go-to tool for intermediate users. I strongly suspect that, over time, even power users would find it convenient.

Phil,

If someone has mentioned this already, forgive me. The first thing that comes to mind is the ability to search for any book in your library from the new tab page (e.g., something like when you draw the library into its own pane, and it has a search bar; see below). I request this because too often I open a new tab and the resource I would like to open is not recommended, and so I have to close the new tab and go find it in the library. The ability to find any resource in the new tab page would simplify this difficulty. 

Even something as simple as a toggle in the settings to "Use Library tab for New Tab Page" would satisfy my idea here.

Regarding others' comments here about searching, if Logos were to implement a graphical search, BibleArc.com's graphical scholar search is probably the best example. It allows you to build the search string graphically while showing you what that syntax would be so that you can learn that as you go (or not). See example below. It is the single best method of graphical search building that I have interacted with. This incorporates the Logos-esque syntax of verbform@modifiers (e.g., to denote a search for a singular genitive form of a verb) that appears with the rest of the search building process (I will note that Logos does popup after you insert the "verb@" syntax with a nice visual window; however, one must know how to begin in order to get that window). 

Once one has searched the display of the results is also display with a helpful expand button allowing one to see more context in the search window (see below). The expand option displays two or three verses before and after the verse found by the search. Currently something like this only seems to exist in Logos' inline search when searching by paragraph or pericope (I think).

Finally, I will note in passing that constructing the semi-complex search above is not as simple in Logos. The same logical syntax outlined in the textbox of BibleArc does not work in the Logos Bible or Morph search (syntax used sans quotes: "(<Lemma = lbs/el/ἀγαπάω> AND <Lemma = lbs/el/Χριστός>) OR ((<Lemma = lbs/el/ἀγαπάω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/φιλέω>) AND (<Lemma = lbs/el/θεός>))"). This example is not to say that I could not conduct the same search (I am confident I can in Logos), but it is to say that doing so is not as intuitive as it could be.

My goal in sharing these screenshots is to provide further ideas and concepts for a simpler graphical search overlay/option which Logos could choose to implement to improve an already great resource by making it simpler to do complex searches. 

With joy,

-David

Immanuel Koks said:

first, I wonder if a “search builder” tool might be an important priority. Logos is an amazing data source, but that data is only as accessible as your search capabilities. I think that you should keep the search command syntax for Logos Geeks. But also include  graphical user interface tool for building and combining searches.

This is hands-down the best suggestion so far.  If it isn't available on release (since we're presumably getting close) please make this a high priority for a future update.  This would go a long way to make Logos far more user-friendly for entry-level and casual users, or users like me who continue to invest and feel like I still use only a fraction of the capabilities of the software.

Adobe PDF reader has a function to "add sticky note" directly on the pdf file.

It would be nice if in Logos resources and bibles, it were possible to do the same thing...to add a sticky note directly onto the file...

For two-finger scrolling purposes on a touchpad, I would like to see ALL scrollable popup windows become the focus of the touchpad when they are activated.

As it is in Logos 7, it's a mix.  Some scrollable popup windows do become the focus of the touchpad and some don't.  Worse, when the popup window does not become the focus, attempting to use two-finger scrolling sometimes just closes the popup window with no other action taken, while at other times, it not only closes the popup window, but also causes one of the open resources in the layout to start scrolling.  Worse yet, the area where the mouse is located in the popup window when you attempt scrolling can determine which panel in the layout will have the resource that begins to scroll as the popup closes.

Please always make scrollable popups the focus of touchpad scrolling.  At the very, very least, please stop the behavior in which a scrolling action closes the popup and starts randomly scrolling another open resource depending on where the mouse was in the popup when the scrolling action was attempted.

David Christensen said:

if Logos were to implement a graphical search, BibleArc.com's graphical scholar search is probably the best example. It allows you to build the search string graphically while showing you what that syntax would be so that you can learn that as you go (or not). See example below. It is the single best method of graphical search building that I have interacted with. This incorporates the Logos-esque syntax of verbform@modifiers (e.g., to denote a search for a singular genitive form of a verb) that appears with the rest of the search building process (I will note that Logos does popup after you insert the "verb@" syntax with a nice visual window; however, one must know how to begin in order to get that window). 

Once one has searched the display of the results is also display with a helpful expand button allowing one to see more context in the search window (see below). The expand option displays two or three verses before and after the verse found by the search.

David,

I support this idea! Move in this direction FL.

1 - SPEED in the desktop programme - I don't really want to fork out $$$ for a SSD / i7 / 32GB laptop just to run logos at a reasonable speed.

2 - Portability - The ability to transfer the entire logos programme and downloaded library (3000+ resources) to a new PC / Laptop without having to download via the logos servers.

Thanks