Official: More details about the coming subscription launch
Comments
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How would it be if I wait to subscribe for maybe 3 years and then subscribe. Will I then get the feature forever two if I have subscribed over 2 years?
We have no plans to stop offering the legacy license fallback to new subscribers, but I can't guarantee we'll still be offering that perk in three years' time.
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Thanks for the help and explanations. They are very helpful. I realised I have Logos 10 full features set and Verbum 10 Full Features set. This may seem like an unfortunate situation for me. Could I just subscribe to one and get the benefits of both? Thank so much.
We discussed this internally recently.
Right now, no subscription features are exclusive to Verbum and not already included in the Verbum 10 Full Feature Set. There will be Verbum-exclusive books in the subscription, though. So, at least for now, if you don't mind not having the Verbum books, there's no need to have both a Logos and Verbum subscription.
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I would be curious to know if the 5% purchase discount will be in addition to other discounts (sales, academic discount, etc.) or if it will be replaced by the greater discount.
It will be in addition. (Very occasionally this might not be possible – perhaps due to a publisher restriction – but otherwise you should expect it to be in addition to other sales. If non-subscribers get 25% off, subscribers should get 30% off.)
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Thanks Mark for your reply. Appreciate you taking the time.
I have to start my logos max subscription tmr as my 1 month trial is over( I had assumed there were max features available for my testing) . It seems rather odd that I have to pay $129 for the year compared to the $99 Or $69, and I need to wait for the features to come and test.
I was wondering if there is a feature that I can delay my subscription for a while, or request for an extention(I did try to request for an extension but customer service told me I should subscribe to one month and cancel if I don't want).
Becuase it does seem I am paying for Max but getting the Pro features experience so far.
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Do these get added to our library automatically or will it work like it does now where we get a code and purchase a 180-license to view them? I would also like to see, though it hasn't happened in a while, where the course(s) of a month get a large discount if we want to keep them. It would be better if we just could but that is not cost friendly to you...
They will automatically be added to your library each quarter (and later removed and replaced with different courses). It would not surprise me if a discount were offered should you want to keep the course permanently.
Also, I haven't seen it mentioned ever so I assuming these are DOA but the 3 free connect books and lexham discount are gone forever?
We previously announced that subscribers will get two free books a month instead of the one that non-subscribers get. This will usually be a modern title, rather than the public domain books offered by Connect. I think the 5% storewide discount will replace the Lexham-specific discount.
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Becuase it does seem I am paying for Max but getting the Pro features experience so far.
If you already have the L10 Full Feature Set, the current difference between Max and Pro is just in the included books. You're welcome to downgrade your subscription to Pro until there are Max features that you're interested in.
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Thanks for the reply, Mark. However if I change to Pro now, I may lose the possibility of resubscribing to the $129 for max in the future? Thanks so much for the clarification.
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So once we’re on the discounted track, I’m assuming this means we can change tier, say premium to max and still keep the discounted track price?
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There will be more to come on pricing. We know you want to know this, and we’re working to finalize it, making sure our rates fit the everyday pastor’s or student’s budget.
Very relieved to know that the academic discount will not be forgotten about for the subscription plan pricing. Thank you.
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I had one question about Mobile Ed - will there be new courses developed? My understanding is the Mobile Ed group has been pretty much shut down, so I am curious if the courses offered each quarter are the ones already available.
We're not actively developing new courses right now.
What about the Mobile Ed courses that are up on prepub? I have preorders in for NT208, ED282, ED283, TH375, and TH381. Will those still see the light of day, or have they been cancelled?
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We've also had lots of questions about pricing. We’re working out final pricing for everyone, but we can confirm what the discounted pricing will be for Logos 10 owners:
- Premium: $6.99/month or $69.99/year (for those with Bronze features or higher)
- Pro: $9.99/month or $99.99/year (for those with Silver features or higher)
- Max: $12.99/month or $129.99/year (requires Full Feature Set)
This seems strange - you know what you're going to charge existing customers but not what those who don't have these feature sets? So these are discounts but we have no idea how valuable those discounts are.
I also have an outstanding question on another thread (here) about which of these levels of discount my Logos 10 Academic Standard edition will attract (if any). With the opportunity to upgrade to the Full Feature Set at a reduced price ending in less than a week, it is becoming increasingly hard to avoid the cynical suspicion that the uncertainty caused by delaying the answers to these questions will maximise the number of upgrades.
Are you in a position to give a clear answer as to whether the information to make an informed decision will be forthcoming before the end of the sale?
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Thanks for the reply, Mark. However if I change to Pro now, I may lose the possibility of resubscribing to the $129 for max in the future? Thanks so much for the clarification.
So once we’re on the discounted track, I’m assuming this means we can change tier, say premium to max and still keep the discounted track price?
As things are currently configured, once you're on the discounted track, you can stay on the discounted track even if you move up and down through the tiers.
So, assuming you own the L10 full feature set, you'll be able to subscribe to Pro now at the discounted price and later upgrade to Max, still at the discounted price. (This wouldn't apply to someone who didn't own the L10 full feature set because the discount on Max requires that feature set.)
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This seems strange - you know what you're going to charge existing customers but not what those who don't have these feature sets? So these are discounts but we have no idea how valuable those discounts are.
Moving to subscription is a complex operation, and we want to ensure we take the time to get it right. We started by focusing on our existing customers, which is why we've confirmed upgrade pricing first.
I also have an outstanding question on another thread (here) about which of these levels of discount my Logos 10 Academic Standard edition will attract (if any). With the opportunity to upgrade to the Full Feature Set at a reduced price ending in less than a week, it is becoming increasingly hard to avoid the cynical suspicion that the uncertainty caused by delaying the answers to these questions will maximise the number of upgrades.
I'm sorry you feel that way. That isn't the case. I know several members of our team are working on pricing and academic discounts, although a couple of the key people are on vacation this week. We understand the importance of getting an answer before the end of the sale, and I'll do my best to get that for you.
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Thanks Mark. Having the full L10 feature set is the requirement - gotcha.
This makes it convenient to adjust tiers once new features come on stream, and makes the Logos subscription a lot more valuable due to this flexibility.
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Thanks for the reply Mark! However, if I subscribe to Logos Max from 31st Aug 2024 to 31st Aug 2026, I will qualify for the fallback license? (and it will be issued in Oct 2026?)
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Early next year, those libraries will be joined by brand new denominational libraries.
Can you comment on what will happen to the current L10 denominational libraries? Will they continue to be offered until the new libraries come out?
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Do these get added to our library automatically or will it work like it does now where we get a code and purchase a 180-license to view them? I would also like to see, though it hasn't happened in a while, where the course(s) of a month get a large discount if we want to keep them. It would be better if we just could but that is not cost friendly to you...
They will automatically be added to your library each quarter (and later removed and replaced with different courses). It would not surprise me if a discount were offered should you want to keep the course permanently.
Also, I haven't seen it mentioned ever so I assuming these are DOA but the 3 free connect books and lexham discount are gone forever?
We previously announced that subscribers will get two free books a month instead of the one that non-subscribers get. This will usually be a modern title, rather than the public domain books offered by Connect. I think the 5% storewide discount will replace the Lexham-specific discount.
Thank you Mark. I will definitely miss the 25% Lexham discount but I understand money needs to be made up somewhere for this. It was very useful for buying a hard copy book from Lexham.
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I also have an outstanding question on another thread (here) about which of these levels of discount my Logos 10 Academic Standard edition will attract (if any). With the opportunity to upgrade to the Full Feature Set at a reduced price ending in less than a week, it is becoming increasingly hard to avoid the cynical suspicion that the uncertainty caused by delaying the answers to these questions will maximise the number of upgrades.
Are you in a position to give a clear answer as to whether the information to make an informed decision will be forthcoming before the end of the sale?
I'm able to say that new customer pricing will be at least 30% higher than the discounted price – possibly quite a bit more.
I'm sorry that I can't be clearer than that at the moment. We understand the problem. Hopefully, we'll be able to give the additional clarity before the end of the sale, but if not, we'll extend the sale by a few days to ensure you don't feel pressured into making a decision without the information you need or miss out on a bargain.
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Thanks for the reply Mark! However, if I subscribe to Logos Max from 31st Aug 2024 to 31st Aug 2026, I will qualify for the fallback license? (and it will be issued in Oct 2026?)
Yes, that's right.
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Can you comment on what will happen to the current L10 denominational libraries? Will they continue to be offered until the new libraries come out?
Yes, we plan to offer them until they're replaced next year. After the subscription launches fully, L10 denominational libraries probably won't show up in the subscription checkout flow, though – you'd need to search the store for them.
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Thanks for the reply Mark! However, if I subscribe to Logos Max from 31st Aug 2024 to 31st Aug 2026, I will qualify for the fallback license? (and it will be issued in Oct 2026?)
Yes, that's right.
Mark: What happens if I subscribe for 2 years from Jan 1, 2025 to Dec 31th, 2026? Does the Fallback license include only the features introduced over the 2 years that I subscribe? If so, you will need to be tracking for each customer what Feature set to be given as Fallback license, isn't it? Is that the plan?
Thanks
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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Mark: What happens if I subscribe for 2 years from Jan 1, 2025 to Dec 31th, 2026? Does the Fallback license include only the features introduced over the 2 years that I subscribe? If so, you will need to be tracking for each customer what Feature set to be given as Fallback license, isn't it? Is that the plan?
I won't be possible for us to create different licenses for every person, so in that case, your LFL license will include all the features delivered up until October 2026, including those delivered before you became a subscriber, but not including those delivered in November and December.
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1Cor10 31">Mark: What happens if I subscribe for 2 years from Jan 1, 2025 to Dec 31th, 2026? Does the Fallback license include only the features introduced over the 2 years that I subscribe? If so, you will need to be tracking for each customer what Feature set to be given as Fallback license, isn't it? Is that the plan?
I won't be possible for us to create different licenses for every person, so in that case, your LFL license will include all the features delivered up until October 2026, including those delivered before you became a subscriber, but not including those delivered in November and December.
Thanks a ton, Mark, for your quick and clear response. I know there are so many moving parts for you all to consider...Does this mean that anyone who starts subscribing before Oct 2026 (be it 1 month, 2 months,...., or 24 months) will be given Fallback license as of Oct 2026 but only after we complete 24 months of successive subscription from the time we started?
A related question...When will the next Legacy Fallback License be available - the one after Oct 2026? Will it be Oct 2027 or will a legacy fallback be rolled out every month?
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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1Cor10 31">Mark: What happens if I subscribe for 2 years from Jan 1, 2025 to Dec 31th, 2026? Does the Fallback license include only the features introduced over the 2 years that I subscribe? If so, you will need to be tracking for each customer what Feature set to be given as Fallback license, isn't it? Is that the plan?
I won't be possible for us to create different licenses for every person, so in that case, your LFL license will include all the features delivered up until October 2026, including those delivered before you became a subscriber, but not including those delivered in November and December.
So the fallback licenses will always be for the previous October? So, for example someone begins subscribing in March 2025 through March 2027. Their fallback license would be dated October 2026? Or they could continue to subscribe month to month until October 2027 and then get the October 2027 fallback license?
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Hi, Mark.
Just some quick thoughts here. I have been one of the more vocal critics since your original announcement but I also want to provide some positive feedback. If I have been excessively harsh, please forgive me. This is obviously a very personal topic for many who have invested huge sums of money in Logos.
I am definitely encourage by having the fallback license option and am already subscribed to Max as I wanted to plan ahead. As long as I see value proposition I plan on keeping my subscription indefinitely as long as I can see the value. I do see the need for some tweaks to the traditional model as the market really has changed. I also think we can both reach a happy compromise where the fallback continues and I continue subscribing.
As far as current new features, I do see value in AI returning search results that I currently do not own. Obviously it can drive more revenue for Logos but it gives me a little preview to see if a particular book which I did not know existed deals with a current topic I am searching. I like it! The additional new features seem to be developing nicely and I look forward to seeing what new tools and abilities will be given for the Max users as far as origin language study. I do hope a significant number of them are not AI or web based :-).
It was also a very nice gesture for Logos to provide the Full Feature Set to long time subscribers.
Last, thanks for the increase in communication frequency in detail. That has been really helpful. I hope these frequent communications become the standard where we can see that Logos is listening and reacting and I really want Logos to be around for the long haul.
Best regards,
Steve
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What about the Mobile Ed courses that are up on prepub? I have preorders in for NT208, ED282, ED283, TH375, and TH381. Will those still see the light of day, or have they been cancelled?
Hi Jon, we are continuing to work through the existing backlog of courses, so you will see those in time. Mark was referencing brand new courses.
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I'm able to say that new customer pricing will be at least 30% higher than the discounted price – possibly quite a bit more
Thanks for the measure of clarity you're able to offer. I do appreciate how difficult your role is here, it is most helpful
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1Cor10 31">Mark: What happens if I subscribe for 2 years from Jan 1, 2025 to Dec 31th, 2026? Does the Fallback license include only the features introduced over the 2 years that I subscribe? If so, you will need to be tracking for each customer what Feature set to be given as Fallback license, isn't it? Is that the plan?
I won't be possible for us to create different licenses for every person, so in that case, your LFL license will include all the features delivered up until October 2026, including those delivered before you became a subscriber, but not including those delivered in November and December.
I appreciate the clarification on this - though I do wonder how it would not be possible to allow for "personal" licensure - that has been the standard back since the Libronix days buying modules and through L10 buying feature sets.... Every person had their own license starting on the date they purchased whatever module or set they chose....
What has changed in the Licensure system that would prevent the same?
Also, just another reminder on the list of included and excluded features for the Fallback License
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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I appreciate the clarification on this - though I do wonder how it would not be possible to allow for "personal" licensure - that has been the standard back since the Libronix days buying modules and through L10 buying feature sets.... Every person had their own license starting on the date they purchased whatever module or set they chose....
What has changed in the Licensure system that would prevent the same?
We still operate a very similar license system. The problem is that we have three subscription tiers. Double it because of Verbum. Then multiply that by seven because that's how many languages we support. Maybe there are more subscription tiers in the future. Maybe some seminaries get custom subscription configurations for their students.
In other words, it's likely that there will already be 50 different legacy fallback license combinations we'd need to create just to support what I've described. If we personalized it for every user depending on their subscription length you could probably 10x that figure. Maybe more. And as a result, we couldn't do that manually, we'd have to automate it. That's the capability we don't have. And getting it would be a significant investment that would take time away from building and improving Bible study features.
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Mark,
Is the plan to update the Legacy Fallback License once per year? I would find it helpful if this information were prominent so that users would be well informed. I imagine many users may be quite disappointed if they canceled in September after earning the Fallback license, only to find out that if they had held on one more month, they would have been given a more recent license.
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