Official: More details about the coming subscription launch
Comments
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Doug Yates said:
Frank,
All valid concerns, but at least for the next several months you some flexibility. I don't think the price of 1 year represents much risk, but month to month, or simply waiting until the end of the year are all viable options.
I thought that was a smart move for the user that didn't see anything yet, but with Mark's input on the Fallback schedule, that is now in question... Sticking the Fallback to a October release cycle will be confusion for users that come in later....
As for the sticking with what you have because of OS updates, that could be an option - as someone who regularly upgraded, it would be disappointing and I am concerned about the new toolbar eventually being forced on the non-subscriber as well. That alone at this time would deter me from subscribing. What I am seeing reported by fellow long time users with that feature thus far is concerning. Might be nice for some, but extra clicks and the such leading to less efficient workflows is not an improvement IMHO. Hopefully they will reconsider the toolbar choice, since the Traditional is being maintained for the nonsubscriber.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Mark Allison said:
I just find it confusing why someone would have no problem paying hundreds of $$ for an upgrade every two years, but completely rebels at the thought of paying $12/month for those same features—features that they'll be able to use during that two-year period and own at the end of it!No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features. I didn't, for about 6 years. In 2024 subscription terms I saved $600 (I had FF before that, so using the discounted subscribe rate).
The basic problem, is that Logos features aren't all that good, unless you like 'Factbook' or sermons assistance. They're overly complicated, and not well thought out. And unfortunately, the new book-level menu will be a disaster for my layout, so a big plus, just eating popcorn, and enjoying Logos10.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features.
So what's to stop you from waiting 6 years before you see features you like, and then paying the subscription fee?
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Mark Allison said:DMB said:
No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features.
So what's to stop you from waiting 6 years before you see features you like, and then paying the subscription fee?
For me, it's the lack of assurance that the Legacy Fallback License will still be in force in 6 years. As I understand it, go forward, that's the ONLY way to end up "owning" new features that are introduced; if a decision were made to no longer support it, even that "2-year rent-to-own" option would be gone, and you would then be forced to maintain a subscription or lose features, ending up back to wherever you last "locked in" ownership. [:(]
Ahh well, all software (like all flesh) is as grass in the end ...
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Mark Allison said:DMB said:
No need to be confused, Mark. Your argument(s) assume one previously wanted and bought the features.
So what's to stop you from waiting 6 years before you see features you like, and then paying the subscription fee?
Absolutely nothing!
Of course, in the meantime, I'll be spending my dinero on books (typically the Big A due to doctrinal limitations at Logos, cheaper, and, well, I like my Scribe). The point being ... no desire to subscribe for pie in the sky. And ... I could alternatively go walking, and drop a ten dollar bill on the ground each month ... make someone happy!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
due to doctrinal limitations at Logos
Just curious what those doctrinal limitations are? Being new to Logos, I don't have the background to know about these sort of things.
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Mark Allison said:
Just curious what those doctrinal limitations are? Being new to Logos, I don't have the background to know about these sort of things.
Not to violate the forum coffeetable, but I'm a literalist, meaning skip the add-on doctrines, study what was there originally, and view the sources as judgable witnesses. Logos largely begins in the late 2nd century (assumptions).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Just curious about a question that keeps coming to mind, does Microsoft communicate the features of Office 365 subscription that will be coming out in the next 2 years? Does Quicken? Dropbox? Adobe in any of their products? Evernote?
Wait a minute, *SOMEONE* must publish all the software features they intend to put out over the next 2 years so customers can make informed decisions about subscribing? That's easy to do, right? If they can do it why can't Logos?
</tongue-in-cheek>
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Don Awalt said:
Just curious about a question that keeps coming to mind ....
</tongue-in-cheek>
Better keep that tongue in cheek. I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy (essentially, buying what has been produced, past-tense). Faithlife is adament ... absolutely not (so far). Ergo the need for cheek-tonguing.
But I am impressed by the months of heavy-lifting just to subscribe. That must be some investment.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
How is Logos not allowing you to "see before you buy"? You can literally see every feature Logos offers before you decide to subscribe.
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DMB said:
I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
"See before you buy" has never been part of subscription plans, that's my point, Me thinks the community is too hard on Logos on this one. An argument to see before you buy on a subscription plan is non-sensical and on-existent in the real world.
Why the community expects Logos to be the first ever to commit to features to be delivered over a two year period makes no sense to me. Did anyone see an AI-based search synopsis 2 years ago? From what I could see, the term "AI" didn't even show up in the forums ever until 2023. If a software company was forced to commit to a features list 2 years in advance, it would be such baby sets of improvements no one would buy it. Oh - and you couldn't even run the AI-based features already out on a Mac prior to 2022.
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Mark Allison said:
How is Logos not allowing you to "see before you buy"? You can literally see every feature Logos offers before you decide to subscribe.
You carefully switched verbs. I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock
It's possible decisions have not yet been made for every feature. Some of the waiting might be because of the need to clarify exactly where they draw the line for what will and will not be included in the Fallback License. I think it's a hard 24 month clock. It's just a matter of what license you receive after 24 months. It could as I understand it be up to 11 months and 30 days old if cancelled at the worst possible time.
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Don Awalt said:
Just curious about a question that keeps coming to mind, does Microsoft communicate the features of Office 365 subscription that will be coming out in the next 2 years? Does Quicken? Dropbox? Adobe in any of their products? Evernote?
Wait a minute, *SOMEONE* must publish all the software features they intend to put out over the next 2 years so customers can make informed decisions about subscribing? That's easy to do, right? If they can do it why can't Logos?
</tongue-in-cheek>
Not tongue in cheek - I am tired of ignorant posts that consistently misrepresent what I have clearly stated and clarified over again - some people are just too ignorant to read what I posted and clarified....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Don Awalt said:DMB said:
I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
"See before you buy" has never been part of subscription plans, that's my point, Me thinks the community is too hard on Logos on this one. An argument to see before you buy on a subscription plan is non-sensical and on-existent in the real world.
Why the community expects Logos to be the first ever to commit to features to be delivered over a two year period makes no sense to me. Did anyone see an AI-based search synopsis 2 years ago? From what I could see, the term "AI" didn't even show up in the forums ever until 2023. If a software company was forced to commit to a features list 2 years in advance, it would be such baby sets of improvements no one would buy it. Oh - and you couldn't even run the AI-based features already out on a Mac prior to 2022.
Again another ignorant misrepresentation!!! A comparison clearly stating a lost benefit of losing the traditional purchase option vs the new subscription option is not expecting Logos to know everything that will be included two years from October launch.....The non-sensical is ignorant forum users like yourself misrepresenting others and then calling said misrepresented view non-sensical - which even if said view was actually a user's view should not be insulted with such statements.... Forum guidelines anyone..... Add non-sensical to griping, whining, childish and the classic Satinic/Satanic insults directed toward those who dare share a contrary view....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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DMB said:Mark Allison said:
How is Logos not allowing you to "see before you buy"? You can literally see every feature Logos offers before you decide to subscribe.
You carefully switched verbs. I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock'.
Some people just love to misrepresent no matter how clear another makes the point.....But DMB, you know that when we dare disagree with Logos or question anything - that is what it comes down to and not so much as a peep from the supposed MVP crew - yet they confront other stuff...
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Aaron Hamilton said:DMB said:
I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock
It's possible decisions have not yet been made for every feature. Some of the waiting might be because of the need to clarify exactly where they draw the line for what will and will not be included in the Fallback License. I think it's a hard 24 month clock. It's just a matter of what license you receive after 24 months. It could as I understand it be up to 11 months and 30 days old if cancelled at the worst possible time.
And this is why I responded to your other post about the trusted source mentioning that they may extend the Last Chance Sale - it would be a very smart thing to do, considering they were not prepared with these answers....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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The ability to report abusive posts is provided under the more option.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Frank Sauer said:
The non-sensical is ignorant forum users like yourself
Wow, you don't play around do you? Instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, you just go for the ad hominem attack. If this was an Accordance forum, you'd have already been blocked.
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Aaron Hamilton said:DMB said:
I think Frank is asking which he can subscribe/buy/keep ... a list not that hard for Mark to produce. I'd also assume such a list would need updating with each new 'feature', given the 24-35 month 'clock
It's possible decisions have not yet been made for every feature. Some of the waiting might be because of the need to clarify exactly where they draw the line for what will and will not be included in the Fallback License. I think it's a hard 24 month clock. It's just a matter of what license you receive after 24 months. It could as I understand it be up to 11 months and 30 days old if cancelled at the worst possible time.
Just discussing, Aaron. But as I understand it (?) the clock is 24 months as you say. But the ownership awarding is each October (calculation). Therefore, let's say you subscribe-start at the day after 'fall' (just joking Dec 22 2024). Logos checks ownership at Oct 2025 (nobody), and October 2026 (many). At the 2026 checkup, you don't qualify.
Now, here's my understanding? You won't get your actual license until Oct 2027. If you stop subscribing, and even have your 24 months, you lose (for up to 10 months) access to 'your' feature. Seems?
That's why I said 24-35 months.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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THAT explains so much frustration I've had since my beginning, back in 2009! (The transitional L3 to L4 period. [8o|]
1Cor10 31 said:Private equity investors are not "people". They are investors who are looking for max returns. Private equity investors are not Christians, who are called to reflect the character of God in word and deed. If the CEO doesn't achieve the objective set out by the private equity investors, he will be fired.
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It is my understanding from what Logos has said thus far that if I subscribe and keep my subscription for the 24-months, I will earn the fallback license even if I decide to end my subscription after earning it. So, if I start in October 2024 and keep it until October 2026 when I officially earn my fallback, I can drop it anytime after if I so desired. If I start theoretically in December of 2024 instead, I would not earn my fallback until 2026 and would earn whatever the released non-AI and non-cloud features were in October 2026 and could then cancel thereafter if needed or wanted.
So, I think the key is a hard two year cycle every two years in October, but the eligibility for the fallback will just mean 24 consecutive months subscribed and then you get whatever the previous 2 year feature marker was.
Of course, that does not answer all the questions either :-). More info will definitely be needed.
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Steven MacDonald said:
It is my understanding from what Logos has said thus far that if I subscribe and keep my subscription for the 24-months, I will earn the fallback license even if I decide to end my subscription after earning it.
Steven, no offense, but if you DO stop subscribing (let's say Jan 2027, and your 24 months is earned), you will lose access until Oct 2027 (when you get your license). You must keep paying, even with 24 months paid. Appears.
That's the other issue I think Frank is hinting at.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Now, here's my understanding? You won't get your actual license until Oct 2027. If you stop subscribing, and even have your 24 months, you lose (for up to 10 months) access to 'your' feature. Seems?
Confusing for sure. So my understanding is that on Dec. 22 2026 you would earn the Oct. 2026 license. Then, assuming it is updated annually, an updated license would be awarded each following October. If you cancel on Sep. 30th, you're out of luck. My understanding is that every month new licenses will be issued,not only in October. Could be wrong? Or maybe misunderstood something. If so, apologies.
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Batman said:
THAT explains so much frustration I've had since my beginning, back in 2009! (The transitional L3 to L4 period.
Batman, nothing happened at L3 to L4 ... same owners (Rosie can clarify). Now, I agree, killing Libby wasn't very nice (smiling).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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For what it's worth, I went back and dug this up. It's a little more info anyway :-) I hope this is still true and I definitely don't have all the answers.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Or maybe misunderstood something. If so, apologies.
In the example, since Mark doesn't check your ownership until Oct 2027, if you stop subscribing after Dec 2026 (owned), you lose access to your owned feature ... until Oct 2027. The issue?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
since Mark doesn't check your ownership until Oct 2027
I think this bit is the issue. I think after 24 months it will trigger an automatic issuance of the License. I don't think they only check in Oct.
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I can see this happening. If I were to drop before the to-year upgrade fallback was issued, it does seem I would revert back to the last "October Feature Update" until the next official release.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
I don't think they only check in Oct.
That was what Frank was concerned about ... Mark (I think) said too complex except each October.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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First, let me say, I completely understand your concerns! Logos/Faithlife/whatever name they are using this month has made several promises, and due to circumstances within and beyond their control, have been altered, broken, etc. Like you, Forgive me, if I don't trust your say so.
Second, as far as current situations go, I do applaud the company's current attempts and believable intentions. I word it this way, because I actually do believe their intended 'promises are ones they believe they can honor later. I dont always believe this and trust this, as several changes have been made that have altered their promises. Offers, pricing, reductions in what was all fill me with a very bad taste in my mouth. Faithlife Now, for example, was a completely different offering when it started. We were given quite a bit of "benefits" it was actually worth subscribing to. Then it changed to Faithlife Connect, and so did the offerings. We lost some benefits. They promised current prices would remain forever, as long as we remained subscribers. But, if we cancel, even for a month, we could be subject to the new rates (this is as I remember the ":promise"). Do I believe this? Not a chance. But, it appears, and I do highlight that, that they are committed to honoring that promise; even with this transition. (Hoping so). Now, however, we are to lose yet another ebook a month. Well, that's not too big a deal for me, because I'm at the cheaper books anyway, so, it's not a huge benefit any longer, But, it's still nice.
Ok, all that to say, You are right to be concerned over their "promises". However, they are currently a company that has done the right thing (NOT something I have given them a lot of praise for; but the contrary) in that they have struck deals so that once we buy a book, pr resource, we "own" it, even if Logos loses the license to that book. A big problem for people in other situations where they have purchased a movie, for example, and suddenly, they no longer have access to it. WHY NOT? So, in this one area, I do praise Logos for doing the right thing.Danny Maldonado said:Not that is any of your business, but I had a “cool” program for CRM before and invested significantly amount of money also, and they became a subscription company. Bottom line, lost any ability to use the program further and hence money spent. Not to mention all my effort and data I needed to migrate.
Seems a bit presumptuous of you for asking about worrying for “cool” features at $10. Every dollar is to be used wisely, even if it for “cool” features, no matter how much I have spent.
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Mark Allison said:Frank Sauer said:
The non-sensical is ignorant forum users like yourself
Wow, you don't play around do you? Instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, you just go for the ad hominem attack. If this was an Accordance forum, you'd have already been blocked.
Yeah - it's me.... I have extended so much grace and have been accused of whining, griping, insinuated as an agent of Satan and just add the non-sensical insult as well - not to mention the constant misrepresentation of my statements -but yeah talk about my ad-hominem attack.... Hypocrisy anyone? Funny how my use of the same words is an attack, but it's not when directed to me.... Speaks volumes
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Being inferred Satanic was reported and nothing was done....I wonder if it would have been rectified if I or someone else outspoken against some decisions inferred that towards Logos or someone who supports their decisions.... Probably would have been, just as MVPs would likely point to Forum Guidelines if that were the case....MJ. Smith said:The ability to report abusive posts is provided under the more option.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:
I have extended so much grace
Yeah, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
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Funny you mention that. That link is the very reason I even searched this thread today.
Maybe it's my own misunderstanding of what the Fallback Legacy License actually is.
I was under the understanding that after 2 years, the books we "rented" through our subscription were ours, even if we cancel. But, under that link, it seems that is NOT the case. We only get to keep the "non internet" features after 2 years?
Thats a HUGE letdown, if I am misunderstanding that incorrectly.Mark Allison said:Frank Sauer said:Your statement here could be misleading to some, who may not understand the new system yet - your "own at the end of it" statement is not settled nor confirmed by Logos yet
The "Legacy Fallback Licensing" has been confirmed by Logos: https://www.logos.com/early-access#faq
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Mark Allison said:Frank Sauer said:
I have extended so much grace
Yeah, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Yeah.... Whatever Mark....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Batman said:
I was under the understanding that after 2 years, the books we "rented" through our subscription were ours, even if we cancel.
If you're talking about the books that come with the subscription, you're correct. You won't own them after 2 years. If you're talking about books you purchase at any point, they're yours until Jesus returns. And probably even after that.
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Batman said:
Funny you mention that. That link is the very reason I even searched this thread today.
Maybe it's my own misunderstanding of what the Fallback Legacy License actually is.
I was under the understanding that after 2 years, the books we "rented" through our subscription were ours, even if we cancel. But, under that link, it seems that is NOT the case. We only get to keep the "non internet" features after 2 years?
Thats a HUGE letdown, if I am misunderstanding that incorrectly.Mark Allison said:Frank Sauer said:Your statement here could be misleading to some, who may not understand the new system yet - your "own at the end of it" statement is not settled nor confirmed by Logos yet
The "Legacy Fallback Licensing" has been confirmed by Logos: https://www.logos.com/early-access#faq
The books not being included is one of the things that Logos has been clear about from the beginning - the books are temporary.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Well, that changes the whole discussion I had with CS. He said I might lose a few books. So, reality is, if I cancel today, I'd lose all the books from the last 8 years that I had not actually purchased?Frank Sauer said:The books not being included is one of the things that Logos has been clear about from the beginning - the books are temporary.
[:O] Well, that's a disappointing development.
Then again, I dont even know what books I own or dont own. I do wish there was a way to identify that. With as many different libraries I have purchased, I am so unsure what is and is not rented any more.
Do you know of any way to identify Logos owned titles? If so, thanks. If not, oh well.0 -
Batman said:
Well, that changes the whole discussion I had with CS. He said I might lose a few books. So, reality is, if I cancel today, I'd lose all the books from the last 8 years that I had not actually purchased?Frank Sauer said:The books not being included is one of the things that Logos has been clear about from the beginning - the books are temporary.
Well, that's a disappointing development.
Then again, I dont even know what books I own or dont own. I do wish there was a way to identify that. With as many different libraries I have purchased, I am so unsure what is and is not rented any more.
Do you know of any way to identify Logos owned titles? If so, thanks. If not, oh well.No - any books you have purchased you will keep subscribed or not - the subscriptions include some books and those books are temporary. Your books are yours - the subscription books are tied to being a subscriber.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Batman said:
I do wish there was a way to identify that. With as many different libraries I have purchased, I am so unsure what is and is not rented any more.
In the bat-library tool one of the columns displays the kind of bat-licence you own for a resource. You can sort on this column and group the types. I think the ones that say 'temporary' are the ones you don't own.
👁️ 👁️
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Frank Sauer said:Don Awalt said:DMB said:
I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
"See before you buy" has never been part of subscription plans, that's my point, Me thinks the community is too hard on Logos on this one. An argument to see before you buy on a subscription plan is non-sensical and on-existent in the real world.
Why the community expects Logos to be the first ever to commit to features to be delivered over a two year period makes no sense to me. Did anyone see an AI-based search synopsis 2 years ago? From what I could see, the term "AI" didn't even show up in the forums ever until 2023. If a software company was forced to commit to a features list 2 years in advance, it would be such baby sets of improvements no one would buy it. Oh - and you couldn't even run the AI-based features already out on a Mac prior to 2022.
Again another ignorant misrepresentation!!! A comparison clearly stating a lost benefit of losing the traditional purchase option vs the new subscription option is not expecting Logos to know everything that will be included two years from October launch.....The non-sensical is ignorant forum users like yourself misrepresenting others and then calling said misrepresented view non-sensical - which even if said view was actually a user's view should not be insulted with such statements.... Forum guidelines anyone..... Add non-sensical to griping, whining, childish and the classic Satinic/Satanic insults directed toward those who dare share a contrary view....
Frank, it's time you stopped calling people "IGNORANT" and "SATANICAL". I have reported your posts, and blocked you. You should be banned from here with insults like that.
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First, thank you for your "up til now" explanation.Mark Barnes (Logos) said:As you probably know, in the fall, we'll launch the next version of Logos as a subscription. We're slowly rolling out the subscription, and more and more customers are now able to get early access to it.
As the full launch gets closer, I wanted to give you a few more updates on what to expect...
As we approach our fall launch and finalize our plans, we'll provide more updates over the coming weeks. If you let us know which questions you would like answered, we'll try to prioritize those for you in the next update.
Unfortunately, however, it seems as if we are left with more questions than answers.
We can't go backwards, of course, and hind-sight is almost always 20/20. Nevertheless, I would have thought Logos would have waited to begin rolling this out, until Logos knew exactly what was going on.
Yes, there may never be the "perfect" time; but, as you say, "As we approach our fall launch and finalize our plans..." leading me to believe Logos was more concerned about beating deadlines than finalizing plans, and knowing exactly what was going to happen. Perhaps Logos does; but, it doesn't seem to be as clear as Logos would like to think it is. Of course, it may never be known just how many questions arise, until revelation day-- regardless how well prepared one is.
Just a thought, and, hopefully there's a way to get a better control on things; now that the "cat is out of the bag" as they say. And, perhaps this thread was intended to do precisely that.0 -
Thanks. That may be exactly what I am hoping for.
^v^Antony Brennan said:Batman said:I do wish there was a way to identify that. With as many different libraries I have purchased, I am so unsure what is and is not rented any more.
In the bat-library tool one of the columns displays the kind of bat-licence you own for a resource. You can sort on this column and group the types. I think the ones that say 'temporary' are the ones you don't own.
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Frank Sauer said:
]Being inferred Satanic was reported and nothing was done...
I would have reported it if I had seen it but I have been skipping most of the threads on subscriptions most of the time because my honest response to many of the posts would be inappropriate regardless of how politely they were framed.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Don Awalt said:Frank Sauer said:Don Awalt said:DMB said:
I think the issue (illustrated by current pie-the-sky plans), is the lost ability to see before you buy
"See before you buy" has never been part of subscription plans, that's my point, Me thinks the community is too hard on Logos on this one. An argument to see before you buy on a subscription plan is non-sensical and on-existent in the real world.
Why the community expects Logos to be the first ever to commit to features to be delivered over a two year period makes no sense to me. Did anyone see an AI-based search synopsis 2 years ago? From what I could see, the term "AI" didn't even show up in the forums ever until 2023. If a software company was forced to commit to a features list 2 years in advance, it would be such baby sets of improvements no one would buy it. Oh - and you couldn't even run the AI-based features already out on a Mac prior to 2022.
Again another ignorant misrepresentation!!! A comparison clearly stating a lost benefit of losing the traditional purchase option vs the new subscription option is not expecting Logos to know everything that will be included two years from October launch.....The non-sensical is ignorant forum users like yourself misrepresenting others and then calling said misrepresented view non-sensical - which even if said view was actually a user's view should not be insulted with such statements.... Forum guidelines anyone..... Add non-sensical to griping, whining, childish and the classic Satinic/Satanic insults directed toward those who dare share a contrary view....
Frank, it's time you stopped calling people "IGNORANT" and "SATANICAL". I have reported your posts, and blocked you. You should be banned from here with insults like that.
I am the one who was insinuated as Satanic.... You refer to people or their views as nonsensical and then want me banned for calling out ignorance.... Amazing!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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That is when I first learned of Logos and Libronix.
I was highly concerned that I would buy Logos 3, and a couple months later, there would be a Logos 4.
The sales rep assured me he had not heard of a Logos 4, and even if it did happen, it wouldn't really affect me. People have have had Logos since version 1 and it's been about 20 years, and we are only at Logos 3".
Now, did he lie? Technically, no. All of that is true. But, knowing that I was not wanting to invest my annual salary (slight exaggeration; closer to a monthly salary) and a couple months later, have to do it all over again, it was undoubtedly skirting around the truth. PERHAPS Logos did not let the sales reps know, so as to not let it out that L4 was right around the corner. And, yes, it wasnt even two months later, and there it was, L4!
I felt betrayed, lied to, and have pretty much hated Logos ever since. Prior to Logos, I loved using electronic Bibles and libraries. At our church, we thought it was so cool that one person had their Bible on their laptop. No one was distracted, bothered or annoyed. I found several hundred dollar libraries, one retailed at $100, I got for $30-40. Quick Verse, I got for cheap. and maybe one or 2 others. Everything was awesome. Easy to use. So, when Logos was introduced, I was debating between it and Bible Works (good thing I went with Logos, after all lol). Unfortunately, however, the root of bitterness set in, as several here can attest to. MJ has been a HUGE blessing throughout the years, as one example; and the more I sunk in, the more bitter I have become. Not to mention, the program was nowhere near as easy to learn for me, as I expected. And after having shelled out a fortune, I learned of the MPSeminars, and it's Camp Logos, ANOTHER FORTUNE just to learn an expensive software title. All a recipe for disaster.
Thanks to John Fallahee reaching out to me, personally, I had a better understanding of why he charged as he did. I found his lessons to be more affordable. But, the desire has long been lost. MPSeminars had a great deal going, $20/mo to go through their lessons. I had hoped after a couple months, I would have been able to learn things about how to operate this software, that keeps eating money I really dont have. Then it doubled in price, and is not worth it. Not to mention, the lack of time.
Forward to today; I was once again, optimistic that my investment was finally paying off. We'll see. I always hope for the best, but, have come to expect the worst.
Now arent you sorry you responded? LOL. In a long journey, THAT is what happened between L3 and L4.DMB said:Batman said:THAT explains so much frustration I've had since my beginning, back in 2009! (The transitional L3 to L4 period.
Batman, nothing happened at L3 to L4 ... same owners (Rosie can clarify). Now, I agree, killing Libby wasn't very nice (smiling).
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Yes, that did the trick; I think. If everything as if looks, I would lose only 232 titles. about a quarter are Bible Study Magazines; nice to have, but, not disastrous. The other? Not a horrible loss, either.
ThanksAntony Brennan said:Batman said:I do wish there was a way to identify that. With as many different libraries I have purchased, I am so unsure what is and is not rented any more.
In the bat-library tool one of the columns displays the kind of bat-licence you own for a resource. You can sort on this column and group the types. I think the ones that say 'temporary' are the ones you don't own.
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I discovered the What's New in Logos Webinar, particularly August, and I am jumping up and down with excitement. I am not even 10 minutes into the webinar, and I feel after 15+ years, I will FINALLY be able to fully use Logos, and I mean FULLY!
I'm not quite sure where things have changed: has it always been this easy, or, has it been extremely complicated, and infuriating to the lesser user, and it has been simplified so a dummy such as I can understand. However, I am finally excited, to have the ability to comprehend what everyone else has been able to do, since day one!
But, so far, the Early Access is exactly what I had expected so many years ago, when I invested in Logos. Just seeing you explain the very second item (behind the name change to Dashboard) everything became extremely simple. I tried a search, for a verse that refused to show up several years ago, that caused L:ogos to rework the search, and, the fuzzy search found it immediately. Up til now, I used Google to do my searches, leaving me to wondering WHY I have over $10k invested in this software program.
All my apprehensions about subscriptions (which I already had been doing) to what benefits I would be losing, and, i have no doubts I will be losing out, somehow, are no longer a concern, because as I stated, this version seems extremely easy to use, ALL the features, without having to spend 600 years going to Logos University to still not understand how to use one millionth of the software.
THANK YOU! And, THANK YOU Logos for FINALLY coming up with a Logos even a dummy like me can understand!0
