Official: More details about the coming subscription launch
Comments
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1Cor10 31">How many times can we do trial subscription (over a calendar year or 12 month period)?
Just once, I'm afraid.
If you wanted to buy additional libraries later on, the worst-case scenario would be to take out a one-month subscription to the cheapest tier. That would also get you a subscriber-exclusive 5% additional discount on the library, so I doubt it would add much to your overall cost, and it may, in fact, be cheaper.
Just an observation with this - if the new libraries are only available to subscribers - how is it an exclusive additional discount... Wouldn't it just be the cost of the library, as they are only for subscribers - if everyone could purchase the new libraries the additional discount would apply....
Just trying to figure out the actual, functional extent of the benefits of the mentioned perks.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Just trying to figure out the actual, functional extent of the benefits of the mentioned perks.
The 5% applies to "Most" books, not just the new libraries. In that sense it is a plus because you don't have to buy the libraries to subscribe.
You can still use the 5% on other resources.
Since you correctly pointed out that you can only buy the new libraries by having a subscription, I think that not simply reducing the library price by the 5% ahead of time and listing the cheaper price, prevents someone from saying..."Hey! Wait a minute! I'm suppose to get 5% off this purchase!"
Just leave the price at the higher level and let the discount apply.
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Just trying to figure out the actual, functional extent of the benefits of the mentioned perks.
The 5% applies to "Most" books, not just the new libraries. In that sense it is a plus because you don't have to buy the libraries to subscribe.
You can still use the 5% on other resources.
Since you correctly pointed out that you can only buy the new libraries by having a subscription, I think that not simply reducing the library price by the 5% ahead of time and listing the cheaper price, prevents someone from saying..."Hey! Wait a minute! I'm suppose to get 5% off this purchase!"
Just leave the price at the higher level and let the discount apply.
I did understand the discount applied to most resources, it just seems odd to me to advertise an exclusive discount for subscribers, when only they can purchase the product - wouldn't it just be the price of the library since only subscribers can purchase them - is there really an additional discount???
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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wouldn't it just be the price of the library since only subscribers can purchase them - is there really an additional discount???
Again, the point, or thought, that I was trying to pass on is that I think it is an attempt to keep someone from raising the argument that "Hey, I should get 5% off this purchase!" after they had already reduced the posted price by 5%.
Even though subscribers are the only ones that can purchase the libraries, I can still see someone trying to get that extra 5% off. It keeps Logos from having to explain over & over again that the discount was "built in" to the price. It will be easer to simply apply the 5% at purchase.
Just my take on things.
EDIT: Just thought of this...
Since we have been told that not everything is eligible for the 5%, Logos is stating that the new libraries *ARE* indeed eligible for the perk discount.
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Will the libraries never be available for purchase if not a subscriber?
In a way, it's capitalism gone bizaare, while the CEO pleads he's supporting something. And folks feverishly try to determine if Faithlife is just taking their money. But one can play the Amazon Prime game ... a free trial subscription to buy from the company. I assume those libraries must not be terribly profitable (to the company).
Eating my popcorn. Got my L10. Happy.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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wouldn't it just be the price of the library since only subscribers can purchase them - is there really an additional discount???
Again, the point, or thought, that I was trying to pass on is that I think it is an attempt to keep someone from raising the argument that "Hey, I should get 5% off this purchase!" after they had already reduced the posted price by 5%.
Even though subscribers are the only ones that can purchase the libraries, I can still see someone trying to get that extra 5% off. It keeps Logos from having to explain over & over again that the discount was "built in" to the price. It will be easer to simply apply the 5% at purchase.
Just my take on things.
EDIT: Just thought of this...
Since we have been told that not everything is eligible for the 5%, Logos is stating that the new libraries *ARE* indeed eligible for the perk discount.
Again - my point is that a subscriber exclusive "additional" discount is an odd way of advertising something that is only available to subscribers and the fact that Mark clarified that the 5% is off the entire store - stating additional could lead to exactly what you're arguing - where's my additional 5%...
Next, let me say something more about perks that we'll include when the subscription is fully launched.
- We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Does this mean it would be a waste of money for someone with L10 FFS to subscribe at the Premium or Pro level?
Or does it mean that someone who does not have the L10 FFS can't use the Max tools?
Hey Doc,
You have FFS 10, but if you want to get the features that will continue to develop, you should consider a subscription. If you then subscribe for 2 years you will get all the new features to own (except for AI features)
Does this help? I am in the same boat and subscribed.
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1Cor10 31">
Will library prices vary depending on whether you are a subscriber or not?
OR
Will the libraries never be available for purchase if not a subscriber?
Current libraries have always been restricted to those who own a current feature set or a subscription, and we're not changing this restriction. You won't need a paid subscription to buy a library – a free trial will be sufficient.
I think we all understood the past actions of purchase options - the questions are likely tied to the extreme changes in business strategy from what was the norm.... Since the decision was made to unhinge Features from Libraries and insert them solely into a subscription option - the thought existed that maybe the route for Libraries would change as well....
IMHO, limiting Library purchases just hurts the bottom line for Logos - as some who may not be interested in or willing to subscribe may have been interested in purchasing from the new library options - from the outside view, the more sales the better for the company...
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Hey Mark, good email, thanks.
I had one question about Mobile Ed - will there be new courses developed? My understanding is the Mobile Ed group has been pretty much shut down, so I am curious if the courses offered each quarter are the ones already available.
Thanks!
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If so, that would be 22 libraries in total in English – at least until the denominational libraries come on stream early next year.
Just an FYI - this approach is likely to delay my purchasing of any libraries unless there are compelling resources. My usual approach is to buy the denomination packages of interest to me (Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox, and optionally Lutheran) then check to see what a Standard package would offer. When it is primarily "noise" I pass. Other times, I find it a useful addition.
Same here. I'm at the point the standard packages do not hold anything exciting or compelling.
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Hi There,
Like many people, I'm kust trying to get my get my head around this. you say:
We've also had lots of questions about pricing. We’re working out final pricing for everyone, but we can confirm what the discounted pricing will be for Logos 10 owners:
- Premium: $6.99/month or $69.99/year (for those with Bronze features or higher)
- Pro: $9.99/month or $99.99/year (for those with Silver features or higher)
- Max: $12.99/month or $129.99/year (requires Full Feature Set)
Currently, I get the full feature set through a Logos Connect Essentials subscription. I use the these features for my academic study. Can you explain if or how I can continue to access these features once L11 is released?
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I assume those libraries must not be terribly profitable (to the company).
They must be highly profitable. Otherwise, no reason to offer Legacy libraries historically. I think this is just one way to try and squeeze more profits. If not enough people libraries bcos of subscription requirement then, thanks to capitalism, they will revert back. The new CEO's job will be to increase profitability, so he will try man different things for sure.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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If you then subscribe for 2 years you will get all the new features to own (except for AI features)
Except for AI and Cloud features.
Mark: Would new features compared to L10 Full Feature set be marked clearly as "AI", "Cloud", or "AI & Cloud"? This would tell us what features will be included in the Fallback license.
Thanks
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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I think this is just one way to try and squeeze more profits.
Sure, profits are always in view. However, if one believes the vision statement that they are actually trying to equip and enable people to do the work of the ministry, that may be another reason to offer affordable libraries with smaller profit margins. Call it a win-win. Also, call me naive. I enjoy trying to see the best in people. It's one of my flaws.
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1Cor10 31">I think this is just one way to try and squeeze more profits.
Sure, profits are always in view. However, if one believes the vision statement that they are actually trying to equip and enable people to do the work of the ministry, that may be another reason to offer affordable libraries with smaller profit margins. Call it a win-win. Also, call me naive. I enjoy trying to see the best in people. It's one of my flaws.
Private equity investors are not "people". They are investors who are looking for max returns. Private equity investors are not Christians, who are called to reflect the character of God in word and deed. If the CEO doesn't achieve the objective set out by the private equity investors, he will be fired.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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Private equity investors are not Christians …
I always learn new (and sometimes amazing!) things on the forums.
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Private equity investors are not "people". They are investors who are looking for max returns. Private equity investors are not Christians, who are called to reflect the character of God in word and deed. If the CEO doesn't achieve the objective set out by the private equity investors, he will be fired.
Please refrain from this type of post - it makes me ashamed to be associated with the forum.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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1Cor10 31">Private equity investors are not "people". They are investors who are looking for max returns. Private equity investors are not Christians, who are called to reflect the character of God in word and deed. If the CEO doesn't achieve the objective set out by the private equity investors, he will be fired.
Please refrain from this type of post - it makes me ashamed to be associated with the forum.
Please refrain from passing your opinion on facts.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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. If the CEO doesn't achieve the objective set out by the private equity investors, he will be fired.
True. I remember Bill McCarthy saying early on that he might not be CEO forever. That isn't to say he wouldn't want to be. I understood that statement as an admittance that it's just not his call. Nonetheless, current Logos leadership are Christians. And the private equity firm has wisely allowed/determined it to be so. If that changes in the future, I will be worried. But not today. Today I am grateful for the leadership in place at Logos.
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Today I am grateful for the leadership in place at Logos.
I too am grateful for the leadership in place at Logos. I am thoroughly excited about the updates in the latest version, and I am looking forward to all the future updates. It seems that day by day, Logos becomes a stronger tool for me to use in my ministry. I pray regularly for those at Logos, that God will guide them in their work, and I am sure that there are many others who do so as well.
To all the staff at Logos, thank you so much for your hard work. In a very real way, you are all a part of my ministry!
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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Also, thanks so much to MJ, Graham, Dave, Mark, Jack, and all the other MVP’s who have helped me through the years in learning how to use Logos. Logos is much more powerful and tailored to my needs due to your gracious help.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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We've also had lots of questions about pricing. We’re working out final pricing for everyone, but we can confirm what the discounted pricing will be for Logos 10 owners:
- Premium: $6.99/month or $69.99/year (for those with Bronze features or higher)
- Pro: $9.99/month or $99.99/year (for those with Silver features or higher)
- Max: $12.99/month or $129.99/year (requires Full Feature Set)
The prices listed above are the same as the Early Access prices. Will these prices remain the same for Logos 10 users with Bronze or higher feature sets indefinitely? There seems to be a lot of people who don't want to subscribe now, but perhaps would consider it in a year or two if they see there are benefits to AI or some other new feature. I (and likely others) have been assuming if users didn't subscribe before the formal switch to subscriptions (and discontinuing Logos 10), all new subscribers would have to pay the higher prices.
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1Cor10 31">. If the CEO doesn't achieve the objective set out by the private equity investors, he will be fired.
True. I remember Bill McCarthy saying early on that he might not be CEO forever. That isn't to say he wouldn't want to be. I understood that statement as an admittance that it's just not his call. Nonetheless, current Logos leadership are Christians. And the private equity firm has wisely allowed/determined it to be so. If that changes in the future, I will be worried. But not today. Today I am grateful for the leadership in place at Logos.
CEOs are accountable to the corporate board, and the corporate board of Logos is going to be controlled by the private equity investors. While the CEO and top people at Logos are Christians and try to reflect God's character in everything they do, the reality is that if the performance benchmarks set by private equity investors are not met, they will be fired. That is corporate reality. I have lots of sympathy for people like Mark Barnes, who have immense respect on this Forum.
btw, the private equity investors are managing other investors' money. Examples of other investors are firms like Goldman Sachs. Firms like Goldman Sachs, in turn, are managing rich people's money. It is a complicated web.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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I understand that denominational libraries come out in 2025, but I see Verbum as different from that. Will Verbum still exist as a separate entity, ie will there be a Verbum subscription plan that we could choose instead of the Logos Subscription? If so, will that happen at launch in 2024 or will we have to wait for that?
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I understand that denominational libraries come out in 2025, but I see Verbum as different from that. Will Verbum still exist as a separate entity, ie will there be a Verbum subscription plan that we could choose instead of the Logos Subscription? If so, will that happen at launch in 2024 or will we have to wait for that?
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One thought I would like to submit: Would you be willing to consider allowing subscribers to choose a certain number of Mobile Ed courses to unlock per quarter?
I'll pass the suggestion on.
I like that idea too. Giving the subscriber a choice. Without doing this, some negative issues come into play:
1. The idea of pre-selected courses means that (like the subscription books) many legacy users will likely already have the courses included with subscription.
2. The pre-selected course may not fit into the subscribers current level of education. If they are not ready for that course when it is offered, will it be offered again at a later time?
3. The pre-selected course that may only be accessed per/quarter adds a time constraint. Overcoming time constraints is one of the major reasons for online education as opposed to the traditional classroom.
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As this seems to be the currently active thread for subscriptions, I'll ask here:
I've just now started the trial for Logos Max. (I'm an L10 full feature owner.) Is there any one single place where I can see all the new features I have (with the subscription, not part of 10)? I want to see them listed out and briefly described--not endless scrolling webpages or videos, text please.
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Private equity investors are not Christians
I just did a search for "christian private equity firm" and found a long list of faith based investment related companies.
What are your sources that Logos is owned by non-christian investors?
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Fascinating to learn that only current subscribers can purchase any libraries released after Logos 10. Seems like a draconian decision that really draws a line in the sand.
My first Logos purchase was 1.6. Since then I've seen so many renaming and rebranding efforts (Logos / Libronix / Faithlife / etc.), and oodles of revenue forks offered up. It's dizzying... and confusing. This trend continues, despite the efforts being made here on the forum and on Logos' web pages (truly, they are trying). There just remain too many choices and options.
In a recent video, the new CEO highlighted common customer feedback: (1) Logos is hard to use, and (2) Logos is expensive. I really hope Logos can make strides with the former; I don't see these subscription plans solving the latter, in all honesty.
I continue to support Logos via my (perpetual / legacy) purchases and recommendations to others to do the same. But I'll admit I'm concerned about how this all will play out.
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Fascinating to learn that only current subscribers can purchase any libraries released after Logos 10. Seems like a draconian decision that really draws a line in the sand.
Mark Barnes indicated that this is not a change in policy - I believe him although I never ran into it before.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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