Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates
Comments
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Robert Pavich said:
That's an inaccurate generalization and sloppy thinking.
I get annoyed at that as well. I am also puzzled and sometimes annoyed at those who think they should tell Logos how to run its business. We aren't shareholders or employees. It makes sense for us to complain about product quality/request new features/request new resources but beyond that? It's not my business.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Robert Pavich said:
That's an inaccurate generalization and sloppy thinking.
I get annoyed at that as well. I am also puzzled and sometimes annoyed at those who think they should tell Logos how to run its business. We aren't shareholders or employees. It makes sense for us to complain about product quality/request new features/request new resources but beyond that? It's not my business.
Well certainly it is a business and most of us, I assume, have much more important things on our lives then becoming over anxious about how someone runs a "christian" e-book reader company. Yet somehow there appears to be deeply held feelings and beliefs about a product line that so many have spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, on that when opposition to one or another aspect of the brand is mentioned then supermen do (in fact) defend the company. I suppose we could just all hold hands and sing camp fire songs as we hug trees and chomp on our granola...but I suspect that won't help the company in the long run either. Maybe its good business practice to hear the complainers, or whiners if you will, so that there isn't an echo chamber at Logos when the next major program release is done...perhaps less visionary cutting edge next generation bells and whistles might help.
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Rene Atchley said:
then supermen do (in fact) defend the company.
Not to be rude but this is a good example of what I'm talking about.
Supermen?
I'm no different than anyone else and If I hold an opposite opinion about a given defect in L4 software why should I be labeled a "Superman"
I happen to not let some things bother me that others might complain about.
End of story.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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MJ. Smith said:Robert Pavich said:
That's an inaccurate generalization and sloppy thinking.
I get annoyed at that as well. I am also puzzled and sometimes annoyed at those who think they should tell Logos how to run its business. We aren't shareholders or employees. It makes sense for us to complain about product quality/request new features/request new resources but beyond that? It's not my business.
Exactly [Y]
Bohuslav
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Well if Bob had just made his post and then "locked" it, none of this debate would have happened.
Not that I'm trying to tell Logos how to run a forum (or its business) [:)]
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Rene Atchley said:MJ. Smith said:Robert Pavich said:
That's an inaccurate generalization and sloppy thinking.
I get annoyed at that as well. I am also puzzled and sometimes annoyed at those who think they should tell Logos how to run its business. We aren't shareholders or employees. It makes sense for us to complain about product quality/request new features/request new resources but beyond that? It's not my business.
Well certainly it is a business and most of us, I assume, have much more important things on our lives then becoming over anxious about how someone runs a "christian" e-book reader company. Yet somehow there appears to be deeply held feelings and beliefs about a product line that so many have spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, on that when opposition to one or another aspect of the brand is mentioned then supermen do (in fact) defend the company. I suppose we could just all hold hands and sing camp fire songs as we hug trees and chomp on our granola...but I suspect that won't help the company in the long run either. Maybe its good business practice to hear the complainers, or whiners if you will, so that there isn't an echo chamber at Logos when the next major program release is done...perhaps less visionary cutting edge next generation bells and whistles might help.
Rene don't you just chuckle when all of these "kiss ups" chime in...
For crying out loud[:'(], I hope these people will quit jumping in to only state the obvious!
Just because people have opposition, doesn't mean they are not a friend of the Logos Staff or Product.
I am a BIG FAN of Logos, as I stated earlier, I could have bought a brand new car with the money I have invested into Logos.
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Okay everyone. It's story time. Remember that Logos is a company in the Pacific Northwest (USA). Remember that is also my home.
When my brother was Provost of a local university, he was interviewing a potential professor that would be a real "feather in the cap" if they could hire him. Said professor was from Boston and looking at moving here because of his wife's employment. After interviews, business lunches etc. my brother and his wife went out to dinner with the Boston couple. The Boston professor had only one question - he couldn't figure out how anyone got anything done here. We were all so polite. [:D]
I, for one, keep forgetting that the forum is not culturally a Pacific Northwest entity despite being sponsored from here.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Good point. I'm sure that a large percentage of the Northwest women of the time were screened for the role of Mary Poppins. [:D] Conversely there are folks outside that bubble who react differently. ... They think outside that particular box. Many of the "politely correct" may consider them Uncultured Infidels. The Cultured Elite attempts to refrain form commenting on the out of control threads, but like it or not, there is a drop of Uncultured Infidel Blood pulsing in their veins. When they can't tolerate the Infidel's babbling any longer, They feel it necessary to set things straight. They set off on a long rant or a bedtime story.... Instructing the Infidels about what they should or should not say on the forums.MJ. Smith said:the forum is not culturally a Pacific Northwest entity
This thread would have died of loneliness long ago, If not for the Cultured Elite trying to kill it. .....God Bless.
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MJ. Smith said:
Okay everyone. It's story time. Remember that Logos is a company in the Pacific Northwest (USA). Remember that is also my home.
When my brother was Provost of a local university, he was interviewing a potential professor that would be a real "feather in the cap" if they could hire him. Said professor was from Boston and looking at moving here because of his wife's employment. After interviews, business lunches etc. my brother and his wife went out to dinner with the Boston couple. The Boston professor had only one question - he couldn't figure out how anyone got anything done here. We were all so polite.
I, for one, keep forgetting that the forum is not culturally a Pacific Northwest entity despite being sponsored from here.
Am smiling, M.J. as I head for my cookies and warm milk on a Saturday evening ..... *smile* Divine Service in a few hours! The Word is going to be proclaimed and the Holy Eucharist is going to be celebrated!!!
Well spoken, indeed! The Pacific Northwest sounds like a nice place to live also! I commend you good folks!
Whether it's true or not, we Canadians also have been accused many times of being overly polite. I guess that is changing as the world turns; but, very frankly, my dear .......... I don't appreciate rude and impolite postings ........... It's just unacceptable.
The following is ...................... Not Scriptural ... Not Canadian ..........
but written by someone from Indiana ......... (hope you enjoy!) *smile*
Peace!
-- written by Max Ehrmann in the 1920s --
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Priceless ! [:)]Milford Charles Murray said:frankly, my dear
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[Y]
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This is a perfect world- no one is wrong everyone is right- though we read the same words and come to different understanding we just smile and say your right too, wow isn't truth wonderful it means everything to everyone and makes no distinction its great being our own god.
Remember this is Logos- no freedom of expression, its their company, their product, their website, their rules, ....... but be very careful its my money, and I decide who gets it.
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Forum Guideline # 1: No Whyning
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MJD said:
Forum Guideline #2 : No "kiss ups"
MJD, I have an observation and question.
The observation.
In my region, the UK, the phrase 'kiss up' is considered rude. To give you some context, our church serves one of the toughest and socially deprived estates in Britain. If I were to call one of the neighbours a 'kiss up', I would expect to wake up with a crowd around me.
However, I understand that this term might have a different weight in different cultures.
I have quickly reviewed M.J. and Robert's posts (who, I understand from the previous exchanges, are exemplars of the 'kiss-up' attitude you so decry) in order to try understand what you might intend in applying this term. As I have reviewed their posts, I find that they have offered assistance with kindness, humility, generosity and patience on literally thousands of occasions to possibly hundreds of Logos users.
I then took time to review your 91 posts and discovered somewhat different characteristics.
Which leads me to the question.
How does your activity on this thread (and specifically describing fellow users as 'kiss ups') correlate to your contribution here?
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt (which is why I have bothered posting) and believe that your seemingly rude contributions here and elsewhere are examples of brilliantly ironic performance art.
In the meantime, however, lacking the necessary knowledge, kindness, humility, generosity, etc. to be a true 'kiss up', I will settle for being a 'kiss up' to the 'kiss ups'.
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As a general rule in cyberspace theological discussions the Alan Alda Sensitivity Rule is in effect...
Rule: Everyone is offended at all time for everything for every reason possible...and some reasons that are not possible.
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Andy Evans said:
In the meantime, however, lacking the necessary knowledge, kindness, humility, generosity, etc. to be a true 'kiss up', I will settle for being a 'kiss up' to the 'kiss ups'.
Peace! and Always Joy, Andy! *smile*
This Canadian thanks you very much for you insights! Am Grateful!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Putting down my popcorn and entering into the fray...
MJ. Smith said:... I am also puzzled and sometimes annoyed at those who think they should tell Logos how to run its business. We aren't shareholders or employees. It makes sense for us to complain about product quality/request new features/request new resources but beyond that? It's not my business.
I am puzzled that you are puzzled M.J.. [:D] IMHO people do this because Bob has invited them/us to do this. Every time time Bob responds to the criticisms, every time he addresses issues on this forum, every time he asks people to email him directly it reinforces the mindset among many people that they have the right to tell Logos how to design it's product, and to tell Bob how to run his business. I have been a Logos user/lover for many, many years, but after several direct interchanges with Bob, and extensive participation in the forums, i found myself becoming a Logos hater. So, I stopped (for the most part [:)] ) participating in the forums on anything but the most technical level, I stopped trying to tell Bob how to run his business, and magically I love the product again.
Now, I am picking my my popcorn and going back to spectator status. [:P]
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Terry Poperszky said:
Putting down my popcorn and entering into the fray...
Chris Thompson said:The Cultured Elite attempts to refrain form commenting on the out of control threads, but like it or not, there is a drop of Uncultured Infidel Blood pulsing in their veins. When they can't tolerate the Infidel's babbling any longer, They feel it necessary to set things straight. They set off on a long rant or a bedtime story.... Instructing the Infidels about what they should or should not say on the forums.
This thread would have died of loneliness long ago, If not for the Cultured Elite trying to kill it. .....God Bless.
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Andy ... I can't speak to the culture 'across the pond'. But the use of kissup is fairly common here, even in 'polite society' (though it would merit an eyebrow-raising). It usually pops into the conversation when an obvious problem is ignored in favor of complements to the source of the problem. The observer of the klssup-er normally can not fathom how the kissup-er could possibly complement the source of the obvious problem, and surmises there must be some form of payback (thus the derogatory image).
In the Logos instance, I too am impressed sometimes after a 'Bob' message, that you see a long series of complements. To be gracious to the posters of such comments, I have to assume they're thoroughly happy with their user experience and have no wish to share any frustration with the source of their problem.
My surprise arises when I read one of the complementing posters later say 'they don't use notes because they're so slow'. I think to myself, well, ok ... I guess maybe notes (or some other software issue) is not a critical functionality of Bible study.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Paul Oertly said:
Per Wictionary:
- (colloquial) One who flatters a supervisor, or superior, in order to get special attention. Joe got that promotion because he was a kiss-up, not because he knew the job.
Also see Brown Nose.
I get the impression from the expectation of violent reaction that our Brit friend was equating "kiss-up" with kissing the nether part of one's anatomy.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 - (colloquial) One who flatters a supervisor, or superior, in order to get special attention. Joe got that promotion because he was a kiss-up, not because he knew the job.
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DMB said:
To be gracious to the posters of such comments, I have to assume they're thoroughly happy with their user experience and have no wish to share any frustration with the source of their problem.
My surprise arises when I read one of the complementing posters later say 'they don't use notes because they're so slow'. I think to myself, well, ok ... I guess maybe notes (or some other software issue) is not a critical functionality of Bible study.
Or another possibilty is that we agree with whatever statement Bob P has made in a particular thread AND we also think notes could be improved....
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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DMB said:
I too am impressed sometimes after a 'Bob' message, that you see a long series of complements. To be gracious to the posters of such comments, I have to assume they're thoroughly happy with their user experience and have no wish to share any frustration with the source of their problem.
[^o)] HHHMMMMMM~~~ [^o)]
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Now, now, Sam ... even in my own Bible software, where I have verse classifications, one class I have is 'Smooching'. This is the nicer name for 'kissup' but is the segment of many epistles where the writer seems to want to get the readers happy before delivering some criticism of their behavior.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Robert Pavich said:
Or another possibilty is that we agree with whatever statement Bob P has made
WE? Who, Pray tell, are the others in your WE. Are they also dogs with halos?, Or dogs with stars? Other kiss-ups trying to obtain a star? All of the above? [:P]
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Chris Thompson said:Robert Pavich said:
Or another possibilty is that we agree with whatever statement Bob P has made
WE? Who, Pray tell, are the others in your WE. Are they also dogs with halos?, Or dogs with stars? Other kiss-ups trying to obtain a star? All of the above?
Yes, me. Do you have problem with it?Bohuslav
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I had a bit of a problem seeing your halo...My Bad. Here's a cute little guy. Maybe you would like to use it to update your avatar?Bohuslav Wojnar said:Yes, me. Do you have problem with it?
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DMB said:
Andy ... I can't speak to the culture 'across the pond'. But the use of kissup is fairly common here, even in 'polite society' (though it would merit an eyebrow-raising). It usually pops into the conversation when an obvious problem is ignored in favor of complements to the source of the problem. The observer of the klssup-er normally can not fathom how the kissup-er could possibly complement the source of the obvious problem, and surmises there must be some form of payback (thus the derogatory image).
Thanks, DMB, for the kind explanation and trying to help me understand perhaps where MJD was coming from.
George Somsel said:I get the impression from the expectation of violent reaction that our Brit friend was equating "kiss-up" with kissing the nether part of one's anatomy.
It is that, but my issue wasn't really the offensiveness of the phrase (because, to be honest, it rates poorly on my potty-mouth scale of 1 to 10), it was more to do with the individuals to whom the comment appeared to be addressed.
For me, the issue is, what do we, users of this forum, actually want? Do we want more of the kind selflessness exemplified by MJ., Robert (and many others) in assisting us to get the most out of our Bible study? Or would we prefer the cynical, mean-spiritedness demonstrated by some others, particularly recently (and I am honestly not pointing specifically to MJD who, in fairness, elsewhere urges forum users to pursue peace)?
The truth is, the so-called 'kiss ups' get my vote every time. And I suspect the many who have benefited from their kind and generous assistance would agree.
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All I can say is I love Logos, I look forward to future enhancements, am glad I have invested so heavily in them, and have no desire to try any other company. Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.
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