Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates
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Halo Hound said:
Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.
Evil-halo-hound-from-Hell.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Way to make us proud.Robert Pavich said:Evil-halo-hound-from-Hell.
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Robert Pavich said:Halo Hound said:
Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.
Evil-halo-hound-from-Hell.
Who can argue with alliteration :-)
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Thankful for Logos Bible Study software with amazing capabilities, including expanding library resources.
Thankful for Logos, the company, especially a CEO who cares to communicate with customers and requests their feedback. Likewise Thankful for forum interaction with Logos application developers and resource authors. Thankful for many friendly forum discussions about how to use Logos Bible Software.
Especially Thankful for the Living Logos with Abba and Holy Spirit.
Chris Thompson said:Robert Pavich said:Or another possibilty is that we agree with whatever statement Bob P has made
WE? Who, Pray tell, are the others in your WE. Are they also dogs with halos?, Or dogs with stars? Other kiss-ups trying to obtain a star? All of the above?
Apologies: my avatar does not include dogs, does include a natural circumzenithal arc (rainbow smile in the sky above):
Thankful for Logos invitation to become a MVP in response to many helpful forum posts using Logos Bible Software. Personally like MVP = Many Volunteer Posts.
Halo Hound said:All I can say is I love Logos, I look forward to future enhancements, am glad I have invested so heavily in them, and have no desire to try any other company. Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.
Humble Halo Hound ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Chris Thompson said:
I had a bit of a problem seeing your halo...My Bad.Bohuslav Wojnar said:Yes, me. Do you have problem with it?
Chris,
I don't take your joke. IMHO you crossed the line. The way you
responded to Robert was anything but something I would call Christian. I tried to help
you to see Robert was right in saying "we". I thought you will apologize
but you just joke. OK. English is not my first nor the second language,
so I might say something not the way I should. I apologize for that in
advance.In more than 30 years of my ministry, large part of it I did in
the persecution environment, as part of the underground church movement.
Now we try to help Christians who live in less advantageous parts of the
world where our brothers and sisters still pay the highest price for
being able to study Bible, to participate in the Christian life. Just
few days ago one of my highly respected friend, key minister in a less privileged country has been kidnapped. We don't know where he is so far. I am saying all of this just to
give you a chance how your words look like in some other
perspective. What are we talking here about? Our preferred Bible
software? Do we need to use so strong words in that matter? Do we need to accuse motives of other people?I have
no clue what is the status of the word "kiss-ups" in English. In our
language it would be very rude and vulgar (meaning exactly what George described in his post). You can call me that way if you feel better but I
want you to know I have had a number of occasions I needed to stand up for truth in the
situations I had to pay a heavy price for that. I am nobodies fun just to
flatter or gain anything.I like Logos and am thankful to God for
it (I still remember time of having no study materials under the
communist regime), I like Bob Pritchet's business plan and over-all
philosophy, I agree with his strategic plans, but... I have many things
I would like to see in Logos (like many more non-English Bibles). I
will communicate those wishes wherever it is appropriate but in this
thread Bob presented his big-picture-philosophy I happen to agree with wholeheartedly. Is it a problem to express it? Who made you judge of the motives of other people you don't even know?If I misunderstood you, I will gladly apologize. I know my English is a barrier to me and it might cause a misunderstanding.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
If I misunderstood you, I will gladly apologize. I know my English is a barrier to me and it might cause a misunderstanding.
Bohuslav, as someone who understands English very well, I wish to assure you that you are on target.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
In more than 30 years of my ministry, large part of it I did in
the persecution environment, as part of the underground church movement.Thank you for your labor of love for our Lord. it is both humbling and encouraging.
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Bohuslav, I personally don't think K/U is a good word to use, and it offends unnecessarily. I suspect it was used simply to keep the thread going.
I think it was Chris that pointed out there's an odd behavior on the Logos forum that needs to 'whack-a-Christian' (I assume most forum participants subscribe to that belief). It doesn't appear to matter whether the whackee said a bad word (although that usually helps). The only requirement is that the whackee might have not been sufficiently positive to the whacker appreciation for the software.
On another thread, I was attempting to support a CP resource and get it over the 100% (Apostolic Dictionary which everyone should sign up for by the way!). But sure enough, I got a nice whacking when apparently the whacker didn't read too closely. Did it merit a whack-apology? Nope. Am I worried? Nope again.
I'd assume, absent any Logos involvement, that Chris can probably keep this thread going for some time, simply by saying something not so kind, and thereby deserving another whack.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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My profound apologies to Bob.
This is my first foray into the Logos forum and, to be frank, I am dismayed by the experience.
Sorry, Bob. I had no idea.
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DMB said:
Bohuslav, I personally don't think K/U is a good word to use, and it offends unnecessarily.
Am I offended? No. Am I sad we see this kind of discussion on Logos forums? YES. [:(]
Bohuslav
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I have to believe that you DO misunderstand me.... But I do not require an apology. We have two issues working against us. The language barrier does enter into it. The other thing is that we don't see eye to eye about constructive criticism. Whenever someone brings up an issue they feel needs attention, There is an element of the forums that gets their feathers ruffled. They think it crosses a line, and the person objecting is not a Christian. That group piles on the protester. They feel they need to defend Bob's honor. Why not let him speak for himself?Bohuslav Wojnar said:If I misunderstood you, I will gladly apologize. I know my English is a barrier to me and it might cause a misunderstanding.
My heart goes out to you and your friend...everyone that situation affects. I have always hated injustice...wherever I see it. This whole conversation began over what I considered to be injustice. I stood up for what I believe. (as you say you have often done) The price for speaking up is enduring the wrath of "Bob's Vicars". Bob has long ago apologized, but the debate has now evolved into the question of whether or not one has the right to speak his mind. I believe they do. I will continue to speak when I feel the need. But for today, I will digress and let someone else have the floor. ...God Bless
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Mark W. Gaither said:
My profound apologies to Bob.
Well, I was going to leave... This is a perfect example.Could it be the only reason Mark is sorry is that he hasn't found a way to get Logos to sell his book? Maybe standing up for Bob might just be what's needed to start the ball rolling? I suggest Bob check out other forums and see what Mark really thinks of him.
Now I Really am done.....Have Great day.
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Chris Thompson said:
I will continue to speak when I feel the need.
If you understood me that I am against the free speech, I apologize. That was not what I meant. We are free to speak. But we have to remember our words are evaluated by others... For me that is a sobering fact. Not even speaking about the Scriptures like Matthew 12:36-37...
Bohuslav
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Chris Thompson said:Mark W. Gaither said:
My profound apologies to Bob.
Well, I was going to leave... This is a perfect example.Could it be the only reason Mark is sorry is that he hasn't found a way to get Logos to sell his book? Maybe standing up for Bob might just be what's needed to start the ball rolling? I suggest Bob check out other forums and see what Mark really thinks of him.
Now I Really am done.....Have Great day.
I really do think that was unworthy. Why must someone be seeking some benefit simply because he apologizes for unforseen consequences of something he said or did? It would appear that if someone doesn't agree with you then he is a kiss-up. Perhaps you are simply being contentious. Personally I don't think Bob said anything which wasn't absolutely correct. Are Protestants a contentious lot who will split at the drop of a hat? I think that is a well-known fact. Why should he be pilloried for saying so? Obviously I'm not a kiss-up. If someone doesn't agree with me, that's his privilege, but I'm not going to cut my jib simply to please anyone. That may be one reason I don't have a star under my icon nor have I been asked to take the position. I would likely decline if it were offered since I ruffle too many feathers.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Mark W. Gaither said:
My profound apologies to Bob.
This is my first foray into the Logos forum and, to be frank, I am dismayed by the experience.
Sorry, Bob. I had no idea.
Dear Mark,
I just wanted to say that although I share your dismay regarding this thread, it is unrepresentative of the general discussions found on this forum.
It seems to me that the forum in general has been under attack by trolls (perhaps just one or two individuals using different user accounts). Unfortunately, they have gravitated to posts like this one (no doubt sensing controversy).
The absence of an avatar, biography and a low post count is, in many cases, most telling. The few posts that they do have to their account are universally negative and critical.
For what it is worth, I am truly sorry that your experience has been negative, but wanted to assure you that there are many people who participate in the forums with the sole intention of helping others study the Scriptures and grow in their knowledge of Him.
I hope you stick around as I am sure your participation would be a true blessing to many.
God bless,
Andy
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Yes, George, you are definitely no K/U. And that's one major reason why I highly value your opinions (even on learning original languages without the crutches of interlinears!).
In a similar fashion, the three Davids and the two Marks plus our two northwest ladies too.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Andy Evans said:
I hope you stick around ...
I'm all for straight talk. I stand by the substance of my comments, but had I seen how personal and nasty a thread can become, I would have been less harsh with my criticism.
The standards remain high for president because his words carry so much weight, and as an official voice for the company, it's crucial he communicate in a manner that reduces the potential for misunderstanding. That said, however, I can appreciate the humanity of his outburst even as I suggest he be more temperate in his postings.
Regardless, I will probably lurk more than contribute, simply because I have more to learn than teach--at least as far as the deeper technical aspects of Logos are concerned.
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Mark W. Gaither said:Andy Evans said:
I hope you stick around ...
Regardless, will probably lurk more than contribute, simply because I have more to learn than teach--at least as far as the deeper technical aspects of Logos are concerned.
To be honest, I too am something of a newbie and still trying to get to grips with the software. As such, I tend to spend much of my time lurking (in a decidedly non-sinister and non-threatening way, you understand). [:D]
Seriously glad to hear that you will be sticking around.
God bless.
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Halo Hound said:
Thank you for your labor of love for our Lord. it is both humbling and encouraging.
I would like to echo this sentiment.
Living in America and having the abundance of bibles and bible study material available anytime I need it... it's easy to forget what our brothers and sisters go through in other countries...and what they have to go through to get what we take for granted every day.
Thank you Bohuslav, thank you...God bless your efforts.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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You Win ! I Quit ! I have been accused of being a troll, of saying things I didn't say, and being people I have never met. Finally My Christianity was brought into question. It may well be that I don't live up to that name, But I Know enough to realize Who will make that judgment. This debate (or one like it) will linger long after I'm dead. I simply don't have the will to swim upstream anymore. Have it your way. Have a great life. I sincerely apologize for any hard feelings I have contributed to. ...... God Bless.
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
In more than 30 years of my ministry, large part of it I did in
the persecution environment, as part of the underground church movement.
Now we try to help Christians who live in less advantageous parts of the
world where our brothers and sisters still pay the highest price for
being able to study Bible, to participate in the Christian life.Bohuslav
I truly cannot identify with your past situation, and the present situation of many of our brothers and sisters in Christ. We here in America tend to feel persecuted when someone slams a door in our face or turns their back on us when we attempt to share the Gospel. I often tell those whom I teach that we do not know what persecution really is, and we need to engage in earnest prayer for those who face such difficulties. A few years ago, I picked up "Secret Believers" by Brother Andrew (of God's Smuggler fame). What a heart-wrenching group of stories! We have it so easy here, and it often seduces us into complacency and apathy.
Bohuslav Wojnar said:Just
few days ago one of my highly respected friend, key minister in a less privileged country has been kidnapped. We don't know where he is so far.I will add your friend to my Prayer List.
Blessings, Brother, I look forward to meeting you in Glory.
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Paul Oertly said:
Your post is most inappropriate on a forum discussing Bible study software.
I personally have not and would not use such an offensive term.
Eph 5:4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.It was totally uncalled for.
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Chris Thompson said:
You Win ! I Quit ! I have been accused of
being a troll, of saying things I didn't say, and being people I have
never met. Finally My Christianity was brought into question. It may
well be that I don't live up to that name, But I Know enough to realize
Who will make that judgment. This debate (or one like it) will linger
long after I'm dead. I simply don't have the will to swim upstream
anymore. Have it your way. Have a great life. I sincerely apologize for
any hard feelings I have contributed to. ...... God Bless.Chris,
Accountability requires truth-telling.
These are your words, offered as a response to a fellow poster here: http://community.logos.com/forums/thread/267147.aspx
“Have a great day. I have better things to do than engage in mental warfare with an unarmed man.”
Or, how about the following posts -- again, your words -- offered in the current thread:
“Could it be the only reason Mark is sorry is that he hasn't found a way to get Logos to sell his book? Maybe standing up for Bob might just be what's needed to start the ball rolling? I suggest Bob check out other forums and see what Mark really thinks of him.”
“The price for speaking up is enduring the wrath of "Bob's Vicars".”As I see it, the issue your fellow posters have raised, Chris, has not been about your right to your opinions, or your freedom to disagree with the rhetoric or vision of Logos management, and certainly not about your Christianity. The issue has been about the manner in which you have repeatedly chosen to express yourself.
When you could have said, "I agree that continuing our disagreement will not be a productive use of our time," you instead chose to critique the intelligence of the person with whom you disagreed via the caustic phrase, "an unarmed man."
When you could have chosen to refrain from all judgment about the motives of another Logos user, you instead chose to impute to him greed and disingenuousness.
When you could have said, "My posted disagreements with Logos seems often to meet with fervent opposition from other posters," you instead chose to refer to those other posters as "Bob's vicars."
And when you could have written, "I apologize for the ways my postings have hurt people," you instead chose to lament what I guess you see as your victimization, and then to close with language whose sincerity, in such a context, is almost immediately questioned:
"Have it your way. Have a great life. I sincerely apologize for
any hard feelings I have contributed to. ...... God Bless."There is a significant difference between disagreeing and demeaning. Disagreement is about ideas and opinions. Demeaning is about people. No one here protests your disagreements. We protest the demeaning tone and content of your words (you will no doubt recall the post in which you referred to those with whom you disagree as the "cultured elite").
Have others engaged in demeaning posts, perhaps in response to you? Yes. Sadly, demeaning rhetoric is often a perpetual motion machine. Those who demeaned you or anyone else, were wrong and should apologize.... Not excuse their rhetoric. Not cry foul for the posts that prompted their outbursts. They -- we all, and you -- should simply apologize, repent (change), and then move on.
You had your chance to do just that, Chris. You chose not to take it. I hope you will now.
Bill
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Edwin Bowden said:
It was totally uncalled for.
I deleted the post. I would have deleted the others but it appears too much time has passed. On my way out I just cant help but wonder why you could not overlook my post, but you were not offended by this exchange.
Robert Pavich said:Halo Hound said:Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.
Evil-halo-hound-from-Hell.
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Paul Oertly said:Edwin Bowden said:
It was totally uncalled for.
I deleted the post. I would have deleted the others but it appears too much time has passed. On my way out I just cant help but wonder why you could not overlook my post, but you were not offended by this exchange.
Robert Pavich said:Halo Hound said:Whatever name you need to call me in light of that, please feel free.
Evil-halo-hound-from-Hell.
That was simply a joke between two friends.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Jack Caviness said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Just
few days ago one of my highly respected friend, key minister in a less privileged country has been kidnapped. We don't know where he is so far.I will add your friend to my Prayer List.
Blessings, Brother, I look forward to meeting you in Glory.
Praying God be glorified, including the lives of kidnappers and their families plus minister friend.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Chris Thompson said:
...The other thing is that we don't see eye to eye about constructive criticism. Whenever someone brings up an issue they feel needs attention, There is an element of the forums that gets their feathers ruffled. They think it crosses a line, and the person objecting is not a Christian. That group piles on the protester. They feel they need to defend Bob's honor. Why not let him speak for himself?
My heart goes out to you and your friend...everyone that situation affects. I have always hated injustice...wherever I see it. This whole conversation began over what I considered to be injustice. I stood up for what I believe. (as you say you have often done) The price for speaking up is enduring the wrath of "Bob's Vicars". Bob has long ago apologized, but the debate has now evolved into the question of whether or not one has the right to speak his mind. I believe they do. I will continue to speak when I feel the need. But for today, I will digress and let someone else have the floor. ...God Bless
I will stand by and defend the word I used -"kiss up," which is defined very well in Chris's post above:
"There is an element of the forums that gets their feathers ruffled. They think it crosses a line, and the person objecting is not a Christian. That group piles on the protester. They feel they need to defend Bob's honor. Why not let him speak for himself?"
The remaining part of the definition for "kiss up" would be one who tries to flatter a superior, owner, president, etc. in order to get special attention.
I take no shame nor have any regrets for speaking the truth.
This forum has plenty of people who are gracious, and amazing at helping people This does not enter into this particular post neither. This thread is talking about "Forum Guidelines" and having a rule that says "NO KISS UPS" is totally relevant.
Righteous opposition is an amazing healthy thing.... HONOR THIS! We don't need politically correct Christians who are afraid to offend. The Gospel is an offensive thing. The world nailed Jesus to a tree for what he said and did.
This post should not have turned into a persecuted Christian thread either... This has nothing to do with the thread and this should be discussed elsewear in another post. But, I am sure this comment will not be well received either.
I also stand by this : “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God” (Matthew 5:9)
Passivity is not the answer; activity is. “Peacemaking” is an action word, implying that the Christian is to make peace. There are many Christian who love and want peace and few who are willing to work for it. Peace does not mean give in or give up or simply agree.
James says that evil desires within are the source of conflict (James 4:1-2). People are at war with other people because they are not at peace with themselves, and they are not at peace with themselves because they are at WAR with God.
Make peace with God and you will be at peace with yourself!
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Our prayers are with this minister too. Isaiah 52:7Jack Caviness said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:Just
few days ago one of my highly respected friend, key minister in a less privileged country has been kidnapped. We don't know where he is so far.I will add your friend to my Prayer List.
Blessings, Brother, I look forward to meeting you in Glory.
As Jack says, It will be a pleasure to finally meet all the friends from the forum in Glory.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Only 2 things in response;
14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15 so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.” u Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky 16 as you hold firmly to the word of life.
The New International Version. 2011 (Php 2:14–16). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
The New International Version. 2011 (1 Co 13:4–7). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
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For those who think that they need to "weed" out incorrect theology, please read Matthew 13:24-30, I agree Bob, Logos is for everyone,
PS I saw your listing on Google+, when are you going to start posting there
John H Pavelko
Crossroads Presbyterian Church
Walled Lake MI
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