Say What? Libronix no longer supported????
Comments
-
Bob Pritchett said:
we are planning to drop support for Libronix edition of new releases.
Knew & expected it would happen... but I thought it'd be AFTER shipping all of the promised functionality missing at L4 launch.
[:^)] [:'(]
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
JimT said:
Sorry Dave.
You and I don't agree on this matter.
I want Logos to put a link back for the missing L3 downloads and License Keys, and support that for some defined period. Simple really.
We don't disagree at all - I'm just reminding Bob about what he said[:P]
Seriously, if it is restored I will happy for anyone that needs it.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
The team is looking into whether or not they can make this happen easily enough...
I don't know how easy it was, but they've been brought back:)
I don't really care for continued support of L3, L4 made a lot of the things i missed in L3 possible. I still didn't like the way Logos handled this issue... (I know you've said you're sorry Bob, so I do believe there won't be a next time:)
I do use L3 as a sort of backup though and I do hope Logos will make it possible to backup L4 in a satisfactory way. (I.e. opening for off-line installation...)
0 -
Well, last night I bought the Brenton LXX, since OL never had it. Apparently they've been forced into honesty again, so the update with the apocrypha will likely be L4 only.
Anyway, of course the order had no L3 links. And the download script was missing from the email.
I used the above discussed order list to bring it down and then sync'd it to get the licenses.
On the weekend I didn't really know what the issue was.
I thought it was NEW 2012 reources not being supported, with Bob apologizing for not happening to mention it to his 500,000 claimed customers (actually accounts).
But now observing the process, this WAS an sloppy attempt to stop access to older resources.
I continue to believe Logos really has a hard time with honesty. I thought it was basically Bob and Dan; certainly not their father. But then Bob trashed his staff for wanting to prevent access, so who knows. I was so angry last night since L3 was the cheap solution for many (L4 runs fine for me).
As soon as I get my credits (again Logos not being up front), I'll be happy to 'move on' (as recommended by our forum participants!).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB,
In my professional career, I have seen many companies flounder when their size and ambition begin to grow beyond what can be known, understood and managed by the original founding group.
I think this "transition crisis," not dishonesty, is the primary cause for Logos' recent gaffs.
0 -
Dennis Parish said:
I think this "transition crisis," not dishonesty, is the primary cause for Logos' recent gaffs.
We used to call it "growing pains." Our teenagers start bumping their heads on car doors and tripping up the porch steps with those big feet.
I have never thought Logos was being less than honest in their dealings with me. They are still trying to adjust to their new size 14 shoes.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
The challenge is always to explain when honesty is missing. Or to simply admit the obvious.
We had a business relationship with a sizable company up north of us. The founder eventually was accused of tax evasion.
He waffled around twenty ways on how it all made sense but eventually went to prison, and we severed any further relationship.,
The Logos situation certainly isn't evasion, but the constant difficulty with waffling and honesty merits the same response.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Johan Leirvik said:
I don't know how easy it was, but they've been brought back:)
I haven't noticed any change in Order Summary, so what has been brought back?
Johan Leirvik said:I do use L3 as a sort of backup though and I do hope Logos will make it possible to backup L4 in a satisfactory way. (I.e. opening for off-line installation...)
Johan, please read previous posts on this (Logos 4 was designed to work offline but offline installation requires a little effort).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
I may have misunderstood, but there is a "Downloadable Libronix Files" section below the Order History on my account page. These are links to the individual files, not an automatic update. As far as I understood this was what Bob made his team work on bringing back. There are still no L3 links on the order summary page. (The page where the individual order is specified.)
Thanks Dave for the clarification regarding offline installation! I searched the forums for this issue again after your post and it seems like your efforts on clarifying this issue are tireless[:)] (Yeah, I know, I should have done the search before wining[:$]) Possible with a little effort is a lot better than impossible[:)]
0 -
I had to take a second look. What has been brought back is the "Downloadable Libronix Files" section.Dave Hooton said:I haven't noticed any change in Order Summary, so what has been brought back?
0 -
FYI, you diehard Libronix fans: I just received a notice that a prepub I'd ordered a while ago has now shipped and is ready for downloading. The same message that has always appeared in those emails was included:
Logos 3 / Libronix Users
To unlock the books that you have purchased, run the attached Libronix Update script, or visit , expand the "Download Instructions for Previous Versions" section and click the "Unlock" button.
The Libronix update script is still attached. Interestingly (I'd never noticed this) there is notURL after the word "visit" and never has been. I wonder whether anyone has ever noticed and reported that?0 -
tom collinge said:
I had to take a second look. What has been brought back is the "Downloadable Libronix Files" section.Dave Hooton said:I haven't noticed any change in Order Summary, so what has been brought back?
They did add more files to my list. But there are a few missing that shipped in the gap. I resorted to the script attached to my notification email.
Sad thing is, although I now have my 32 AM Moody "Foundation of Ministry" files on the Libronix files download list, I still do not have the license unlocked, nor the Logos 4 update for them. I am truly hoping this all stems from an overwhelmingly successful December sales push rather than a major breakdown in the Customer Service department. The increased production in Pre-Pub shipping makes me wonder if everybody didn't run over there to work.
Knock, knock. Anybody in there at CS?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Thanks Rosie ... I'd really like to know which way they're going. I didn't get a script in my email, for an older Libronix file; it pointed back to the order form which was L4 only and didn't have the 'Older Software' section as previously.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Johan Leirvik said:
I may have misunderstood, but there is a "Downloadable Libronix Files" section below the Order History on my account page. These are links to the individual files, not an automatic update. As far as I understood this was what Bob made his team work on bringing back. There are still no L3 links on the order summary page.
Exactly what is restored & when looks to be an ongoing story judging by earlier comments.
Johan Leirvik said:(Yeah, I know, I should have done the search before wining
)That's fine. Look for some changes to http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers#Method_1 in the next day or so.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Did you attempt sync your licenses in L3?Super Tramp said:I still do not have the license unlocked
Edit: I just attempted this, and it did not work as I thought.
I sync'ed my licenses, then I ran the script that is to update our resources. The resources did not download. Once I downloaded a resource, I was able to open up the resource.
0 -
I downloaded the free John Owen book that was just made available, DL'd the L3 file from the bottom of my Orders page, sync'd and saw it appear in my L3 Library. As I understand it, anything previously published and already on the L3 ftp site will remain available even if you don't purchase it until a year or two into the future.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
David Paul said:
As I understand it, anything previously published and already on the L3 ftp site will remain available even if you don't purchase it until a year or two into the future.
Available to download? Yes.
Available to purchase? The publisher may withdraw a book from sale anytime.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
EmileB said:
Some of us don't even know HOW to back up our computers (I knew on my PC, but I still haven't got it figured out on the Mac... I did see some links to that in the wiki, and I'll explore that).
Apple includes Time Machine with OS X, which needs external storage. Wiki Quick Installation onto Multiple Macs => Time Machine Duplication includes link to Apple's Time Machine tutorials => http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/#timemachinebasics and Mac 101: Time Machine => http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1427
Since Apple only licenses OS X for use on Apple hardware, OS X does not have copy protection, so copying or cloning an OS X configuration between Mac models can easily be done. Apple's Disk Utility has partition restore, which I have successfully used many times.
EmileB said:I might be painting myself a bit more ignorant than I am (probably not much)... but I'll bet there are lots of users as clueless or (God forbid!) even more so than I. That's why we need a REALLY simple, REALLY straight forward, REALLY clear, step-by step guide in as simple English as possible, covering each of the things that we need to do, assuming no computer knowledge at all. Is this possible (or something close?)??
Challenging to write step by step simple tutorial that assumes no computer knowledge. Also, Logos user community includes some very technically inclined people.
In an actual disaster scenario, one action is determining what capabilities are still functional.
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
Kicking the can ... kicking the can ...
The people that are adept with their pc's, are adept with their pc's.
The other 90% need to think about 'electronic books' as throw-away files.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
I continue to believe Logos really has a hard time with honesty. I thought it was basically Bob and Dan; certainly not their father. But then Bob trashed his staff for wanting to prevent access, so who knows. I was so angry last night since L3 was the cheap solution for many (L4 runs fine for me).
I should probably ignore this... but I can't.
Honesty is the first item on the Logos list of values. It really bothers me if you think that I an not exhibiting that value, because it means that our communication problem is worse than I think, or that I have some huge blind spot in my life.
I'm also bothered that you think Dan has a problem with it, since he rarely communicates publicly. What is he saying that's giving you this impression?
Can you please point to any instance in which Dan or I have not been honest with you or our customers? To any knowingly dishonest statement? To any intentionally deceptive omission?
We try to be completely transparent. When we make mistakes, or frustrate our users, I explain in what seems to me to be excessive detail how and why things happened. Sure, we don't reveal some things -- like shipping dates of new features -- but that's not dishonest; we tell you why we aren't telling you!
The Internet makes everything transparent; if not immediately, than eventually. What's the business case for dishonesty? How does it ever profit anyone who plans to be in business for more than a year? (And we do.)
In what way did I trash my staff? I explained (honestly) exactly what happened, and took responsibility for not coordinating the process. The staff did their jobs as they understood them.
It seems like you're "so angry...since L3 was the cheap solution for many." But even here I (and the company) have been honest and forthright: we don't develop software for older machines. We never have, since day one when we shipped Windows software in 1991 while MS-DOS still led the market. We develop for current and future machines. (See http://community.logos.com/forums/p/8620/74226.aspx#74226 for one of several detailed posts on this subject; this one is from Jan 2010.)
I'm assuming you don't really think we're "dishonest", you are just upset that L3 support is being phased out and feel like that was some sort of "planned surprise" to abandon people. "A sloppy attempt to stop access to older resources." But I've explained how we haven't stopped access at all -- simply stopped making new resources in an old format -- and even if this was "a plan", in what way is it dishonest? When v4 of a product ships, is it any surprise that the company is no longer working on/worrying about/investing in v3? Do you think people are sitting around automobile factories worrying about new feature for the 2009 car models?
How exactly have we been dishonest? (And how has Dale -- our father -- earned your approbation? Are his once-a-year posts more complete and error free disclosure, or is the secret of an honest reputation simply engaging in less public communication?) I really do want to know, because, even though I am upset at the accusation, if there's truth to it I will listen and attempt to humbly remedy the deficiency.
-- Bob
0 -
Thank you for this detailed explanation.
Unfortunately, I too am one who pretty much despises L4. The so-called "Home page" is not much more than an ad-campaign. While Libronix was not perfect, in my not so humble opinion, it was much easier and better to use. There are some benefits to L4; so, i use the L4 "shell" as well as Libronix.
I do hope that L5 will be less complicated, more accessible, and less "money changers" in spirit. I suppose however, making it more difficult keeps Morris Procter employed. But, I have to wonder with the bombardment of ads and emails from Logos, if Jesus would not be a bit ticked as to how this business is being run. Consider the cost to learn how to fully use the software. It's pretty disgusting, really.
Dont get me wrong; I do believe a person deserves their pay. But, I'm amazed by Logos, and how things are run. Had I known things were the way they are, I might have reconsidered investing so much into Logos. And your own words demonstrate to me, the secularized mentality that is corrupting Logos: :"They are increasingly, by definition, people who don't upgrade/buy a lot of new things."
Rather than being a company that makes researching Scripture easier and more productive, the main goal is that of every secular company out there: find new ways to make more and more profit. I do not believe Logos' intent is to make research more practical, but, rather to find copyright free materials, to sell at maximum prices.
Once again, I understand there is a cost to producing such a huge project, such as Libronix, L4, etc. But, to hear talk of L5, with barely 2 years of L4? To see that Libronix users "by definition" don't spend as much as we want? Do you not see a problem here? For Microsoft, Apple, or the local supermarket, that's what our country and core values are based on. But, for a company dealing in God's Word (which, btw, is not bound by copyright laws; because as Paul asks (in a different context) did the word of God originate with you {Logos})?
So, while I for one appreciate the response; I find it rather appalling.Bob Pritchett said:I'm sorry our announcement is late; we are planning to drop support for Libronix edition of new releases. It's been over 2 years since we moved to Logos 4, and most of our users have moved to it.
As we add more functionality and support for richer tagging to Logos 4, it's harder and more time-consuming to build Libronix-compatible editions. And while there are still Libronix users, they typically aren't frequent/active purchasers of new content. (They are increasingly, by definition, people who don't upgrade/buy a lot of new things.)
We believe the time is right to drop Libronix support on new releases so that we can put our resources into other efforts.
I know many people do still use Libronix, and we're not disabling it, we're just not going to keep putting more and more effort into supporting it with new releases. I apologize for the disconnect between the change in releases and the announcement; if you need to return a resource we'll be happy to help you with that.
-- Bob
0 -
When I called to order Libronix, one of my main concerns was "new and updated" versions. I was assured by the sales persons that I would be able to use the program "no matter how much we upgrade in the future". I was given an example of how someone was still using Libronix 1.0 and how Logos updated their books and software so they could continue using it.
Yes, I do believe there is a real disconnect. But, I would not say "lie" or necessarily "dishonest"' but. once again, Logos follows the world's business model, and it is not a pretty model. Consider it from our POV: I asked the salesman when L4 was being planned. Now, granted, from a business POV, it may be suicide to say "in two months"; but, really? Even MS tells people there's a new edition of Windows on the horizon. So, yeah, if that poster was told and led to believe what I was told and led to believe, it's a no wonder the sentiments expressed. I won't go as far as poster did; but, I can certainly understand. And, maybe Logos should re-examine the business model.0 -
LegendsOfBatman said:
But, for a company dealing in God's Word (which, btw, is not bound by copyright laws; because as Paul asks (in a different context) did the word of God originate with you {Logos})?
I hear you. But the underlying issue here is it takes money to keep a business afloat. Even socialist and communist economic models require someone to fund the projects. Nothing but God's grace is truly free. Your concern with Bible copyrights should be taken up with the world's governments and the copyright holders of the various Bible versions. I'm sure Logos would love to give you all Bible versions for free. I am equally sure the various copyright holders would act to stop Logos from doing so. If they didn't they would have to get money some other way to fund their translation, printing and distribution. Otherwise the translation would not happen.
I may be mistaken but when Peter said his master Jesus did pay taxes to Rome, I read a bit of a reprimand from Christ to Peter. But Jesus followed that up with a willing payment (from the mouth of a fish, no less) as some type of example for us to follow. Matthew 17:27
The Logos Bible software company is not preventing deeper Bible study. They are fostering it. One does not have to have Logos to read the Bible or walk closer to God. That part will always be free.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Legends,
I was thinking about church and tithing, as you probably know, the majority of church members pay tithes and never use all the services the church provides. Can you imagine if church was pay for only what you use? Charge for the nursery or charging for Sunday school? The poor would scream we can't afford it. Other’s would be critical of the quality of the services provided, since they were paying for it after all. Tithing percentages are horrible in denominations all across the board, the fact is most don't pay their way, or pay for what they use of church resources. By the way I’m not suggesting that they should either.
My point is;
Logos has many customers who buy very little beyond the first purchase of some kind of base package. The software is provided free of charge, just like church resources. But it is supported by the sales of resources, even out of copyright resources, same as church is paid for through tithes of members who can and to pay them. The majority of Logos customers do not pay the cost of the software development and support that they have come to expect. Without continued sales and sales promotions we would not have the product we now have. Someone has to pay for all this. Tagging is way more expensive to do than the cost of paying royalties.
You seem to feel as if logos should run as a charity for the disadvantaged; I feel Logos is more than generous in its business model. If I want free pdf’s of old resources, there are plenty of places to accommodate me, but I desire tagged and enhanced books, and for that I am gladly willing to pay. Why begrudge Logos its ad campaign? You should be happy that any particular “deal” will be blessing someone even if it does nothing for you. That too reminds me of church.
0 -
LegendsOfBatman said:
I was given an example of how someone was still using Libronix 1.0 and how Logos updated their books and software so they could continue using it.
Are you sure you didn't misunderstand? While I will admit to having received incorrect information regarding L1 resources moving up to L3, I've never heard anything implying that new resources could be used in L1 or L2 (or now L3).
LegendsOfBatman said:I asked the salesman when L4 was being planned.
Looking at this from a developer's POV, I'd be furious if a sales person provided that information prematurely. You have a goal but the plug may be pulled if serious problems arise. Many of us wish the original release had been a few months later with a few more features in and a few more bugs out.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
LegendsOfBatman said:
When I called to order Libronix, one of my main concerns was "new and updated" versions. I was assured by the sales persons that I would be able to use the program "no matter how much we upgrade in the future".
You can still use Libronix or LLS for that matter. LLS illustrates that as technology advances, though, it cannot be supported by all future OS i.e. you can't install LLS to a 64-bit OS (you have to stay with 32-bit). LLS also illustrates that you cannot use the newer Libronix resource format, but no one prevented you using LLS format resources. Libronix is still supported by 64-bit OS and you can still use Libronix format resources + LLS format! It's just that new resources will not be produced in Libronix format. The main issue is how much longer Logos will support the software for new releases of Internet Explorer as it did with IE9.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Bob ... you requested an answer.
First, I'll confirm I don't really think you're dishonest. I'll also confirm I love your Libronix product, and I also am often amazed by your Logos4 product. I don't know who does your web coding, but I am also very impressed. None of these represent my concern.
I'll also point out, as I have in several previous threads, that I fully expected for you to end support for Libronix, and was very thankful (and still am) that you provided support. The way I was able to spend about $10,000 on your product, was assuring my spouse you would eventually end Libronix support. So, I'd be the dishonest one, if ceasing support were MY issue since I obviously prepared for it.
Now for my use of the phrase 'hard time with honesty' and elsewhere 'challenged with honesty'. For that, let me use three examples; maybe our definitions are different (as they are in our society).
(1) My favorite presidential candidate currently was accused of some verbage from two decades ago that was quite offensive. He demurred that he didn't write it. But during the same period, he had bragged concerning the people who love that sort of thing, and contributed large sums to his campaigns. He was probably indeed honest about it. But today I have trouble with putting the two events together, and so my concern with his honesty.
(2) A recent president was caught with his proverbial pants down. Against significant accusations, he faced the camera head-on and said he didn't do it. When I heard him deny it, I knew immediately he was technically being honest. The denomination I grew up in was the same that he grew up in, and the words he used meant very specific things. But he very likely knew that.
(3) I heard a story recently from whense, I've forgotten. A rancher south of us had pecan trees and some small boys stopped by and began picking up pecans. The rancher responded by wheeling the boys' bicycles up to his house and waiting. Soon enough, the boys arrived, asking for their bicycles back. The pecans were really not the issue; it was simply asking instead of taking (honesty).
"I'm also bothered that you think Dan has a problem with it, since he rarely communicates publicly. What is he saying that's giving you this impression?" 'Dan' does 99% of the talking for Logos (marketing). I'd hope not to have to re-hash the continuing saga of over-stated advertising claims, in-program advertisements (so called 'alerts'), and quietly sharing data with 3rd parties. I think some of this has slowed down, if I'm not mistaken. But you don't have to peruse too much of the forum, before you run into lengthy discomfort.
"We try to be completely transparent." There, I'd have to respectfully disagree. At each step of the way, users have to guess where you're going and what you're doing. Should we talk about 'notes'? In your Libronix product the support was quite extensive, but when you rolled out Logos4, a considerable amount of functionality was missing. You said 'well, gee, I can't keep every feature.' True. But what happened to their previous notes? Ditto on PPB, and even more so; they literally paid for the rights to use it. Today, you brag concerning PB, being free etc. but will you then trash today's PB plus notes in your version 5? It's actually quite likely.
"The Internet makes everything transparent; if not immediately, than eventually. What's the business case for dishonesty?" Again, I respectfully disagree. With both Libronix, and Logos4 you've developed a reputation for being over-priced and slow. What's that have to do with the challenge of honesty? Plenty. A customer moving from your Libronix to your Logos4 suddenly finds their Bible study impacted. You say 'Well, please continue to use Libronix.' Oh really? If I remember right, that lasted all of one year before the MS patch requirement, etc and one year later 'sorry'. In my case, I knew you'd do that and prepared.
"In what way did I trash my staff? I explained (honestly) exactly what happened, and took responsibility for not coordinating the process. The staff did their jobs as they understood them." Here, I'm speaking from an executive perspective. You shouldn't even mention your staff's involvement for obvious reasons. Then you said only 2012 resources had been impacted. But when I later bought a Libronix-era book, the invoice had been reprogrammed to prevent me from downloading it (Libronix), AND the email pointed back to the reprogrammed invoice. I wondered why the 'staff' would do that; it was a lot of work. Per you, it was 'the staff' that wanted to end Libronix support (2012 books) but the actual programming ended even pre-2012 support. Like the examples above, something doesn't wash.
Some examples of the challenge of honesty:
- What was your basis for removing Bible note-taking and PBB support? Was it honest, that while you were literally selling PBB support, you were planning its demise? That your customers would have to dump their work?
- When your customers could easily use your previous software, stand-alone in far off places, and you programmed so they could not in the future do so (while you continued selling them resources), were you honest?
- Where people had private notes etc that belonged to them, were you honest when you programmed the new software to take what was theirs without permission, and shrug it off?
- Where many Christians are very uncomfortable mixing commercial enterprise with Bible study, were you honest with them in dumping your 'alerts' but actually advertisements in their faces?
- You literally require your customers to go to the forum for key support, while countenancing extreme examples of religious meanness, is that honest?
I've no doubt each of these are arguable for everyone, and you too probably have very good reasons. 'Transparent' indeed. That's why I said then and continue to say that you and your brother do have a challenge with the concept. My reference to your father was that at least down here, kids impact on their parents."If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
Honesty is the first item on the Logos list of values. It really bothers me if you think that I an not exhibiting that value, because it means that our communication problem is worse than I think, or that I have some huge blind spot in my life.
Bob,
I will not say that Logos has an honesty problem. I will say that Logos does have a huge communication issue. I believe this issue comes from the fact that Logos is always making assumptions.
For an example:
In this case, YesBob Pritchett said:When v4 of a product ships, is it any surprise that the company is no longer working on/worrying about/investing in v3?
When L4 came out, Logos stated that we would be able to run L3 along side L4. What was not said was a time limit on how long this would occur. Logos' statements can very easily be understood that this process would last for the lifetime of L4. Logos' assumed that its users would understood that this process would only last for a certain time period.
IMHO... Logos' communication needs to be much more clearer.
0 -
tom collinge said:
IMHO... Logos' communication needs to be much more clearer.
[Y] By example, it was a surprise to see the 'Previous Download Versions' option pulled off the account order summary web pages without any warning, when I went to activate an order script for L3.
0 -
As I stated, I understand these costs, the need to make money, and to be fully functional. My problem is when Christians run their "Christianized" companies in the same manner as secular companies.
Sure, it costs money to fund archeological digs to attempt to find the past. It costs money to translate. It costs to even compile and create software to run programs such as Libronix or L4. I really do not begrudge people from being blessed of God with a massive salary for the work they have done. Where I do have conflict is when a company, forgets the purpose, and makes the purpose making money.
I referenced Jesus whipping the people and overturning the tables. Was Jesus upset because they sold items at the temple, or, was he angry, because they were gouging people, and selling animals making a business out of things in a despicable manner? Would Jesus have been ticked if they provided a service and sold animals at a reasonable price? I do believe there was a lot more going on than merely selling items. It ultimately was a mockery to God. And, I am not totally comparing Christian companies to such practices; but, then again, there is a line, and are we aware of when we cross it? I am not so sure Logos is not nearing that line. When the homepage is filled with advertisements, and we are bombarded with ads to buy more and more, I have to wonder, are we getting close to that line?
Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. Perhaps Logos is trying to be good stewards of the resources it has, and wants to most effectively use those resources to best continue equipping Christians with the best possible services; and discontinuing Libronix support is the best way to handle the resources given. Or, perhaps Logos is trying to be good business people, maximizing profits, using the Bible as their vehicle to great wealth (NOT saying anyone is getting wealthy-- but, asking if that is the intent); or, somewhere in between, or different altogether? When i see statements such as Libronix users tend to not spend more money (NOT the actual quote; but, the concept I saw with the actual statement), I begin questioning what the purpose is. I see expensive seminars that help users learn how to use the software. I see expensive training DVDs. I also see free training videos as well. Maybe I am just "old school", but, I don't get it, with all the expenses associated with learning how to use software; the constant advertising, so much so that it actually takes away from the product.
Consider my point this way. Libronix had annoying little alerts letting us know of items for sale. Click them and they disappeared. L4 required someone to tell me that I could right-click my mouse and change some of the things shown on L4's homepage. But the point here is, what was once an annoying popup, but disappeared, is now an always in your face, "newspaper style" ad for the 12 days of Christmas; Christmas Credit; Christmas sales; new titles; upgrade to the next library; add to your library. When I open my Bible, I dont want to see ads. If we MUST have this L4 homepage, I'd like to see interesting articles, devotionals, Bible lessons, etc. NOT advertisements.Super Tramp said:LegendsOfBatman said:But, for a company dealing in God's Word (which, btw, is not bound by copyright laws; because as Paul asks (in a different context) did the word of God originate with you {Logos})?
I hear you. But the underlying issue here is it takes money to keep a business afloat. Even socialist and communist economic models require someone to fund the projects. Nothing but God's grace is truly free. Your concern with Bible copyrights should be taken up with the world's governments and the copyright holders of the various Bible versions. I'm sure Logos would love to give you all Bible versions for free. I am equally sure the various copyright holders would act to stop Logos from doing so. If they didn't they would have to get money some other way to fund their translation, printing and distribution. Otherwise the translation would not happen.
I may be mistaken but when Peter said his master Jesus did pay taxes to Rome, I read a bit of a reprimand from Christ to Peter. But Jesus followed that up with a willing payment (from the mouth of a fish, no less) as some type of example for us to follow. Matthew 17:27
The Logos Bible software company is not preventing deeper Bible study. They are fostering it. One does not have to have Logos to read the Bible or walk closer to God. That part will always be free.
0
