Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

No offense, but this is often the case with companies.  A new plan is floated (subscription based), the company says you will always have an option, but...slowly and eventually subscription becomes the norm.  I'm thinking a consistent revenue stream would be attractive to Logos, would it not? 

The logos bronze 9 now have major discounts 

Will they still kbe available when this subscription service comes ?

I am eagerly looking forward to the addition of some AI functionality to Logos. 

I am apprehensively looking forward to the movement of Logos to a subscription model. 

I understand why subscription is appealing to the Logos financial folks, and some categories of users.  I would personally benefit from more frequent updates during the next 2-3 years as the AI features are developed and integrated.  But software by subscription for everyone, forever, is not in the long term interest of many, if not most, non-professional users.  A non-subscription option needs to remain available.

I think that's a puzzle to lots of us.

If Instant Dark/Light mode remains behind a paywall, that will be the writing on the wall for me.  Features like that cannot be behind a paywall.  I woudl expect if they are, FL will discover very quickly that they made a blunder worse than any other blunder.

If Instant Dark/Light mode remains behind a paywall, that will be the writing on the wall for me.  Features like that cannot be behind a paywall.  I woudl expect if they are, FL will discover very quickly that they made a blunder worse than any other blunder.

I’ve had instant dark/light mode forever with my Mac and iPhone 😂😂😂 You adjust the display/brightness and choose light or dark mode and every app that supports it becomes dark or light automatically without having to restart anything.  That’s why I never understood this being a subscription “feature” when I’ve had it for the longest.

DAL

I don't like the direction Logos is going with this. I have no interest in bringing AI into my Bible studies, or any part of my life. I have no interest in paying for an ongoing subscription to maintain access to books of their or my choosing. I don't want to rent the software. I don't like the way they're using Logos Pro as a carrot to try to lure folks into perpetual monthly payments. And I don't like that I've spent so much on Logos 10 Reformed Portfolio, plus additional resources, only to find this state of flux and uncertainty going forward. 

I was content using Olive Tree for Bible study and although I had already invested a fair amount in that software, I made the switch to Logos when I went back to college for theological studies. I saw a clear benefit to justify the substantial expense. I was very impressed and recommended Logos to anyone that was looking for Bible study software. I can no longer make that recommendation. I'm very disappointed. If they go subscription only, support for legacy editions will eventually go away. Without the option of purchasing an upgrade, the money to maintain legacy editions would have to come from their subscription income and that'll look less attractive as time goes on. 

I've only been using Logos for a year and a half now. If it had been subscription only, or they had said that was the way there were going when I was looking for something more robust than Olive Tree, I'd be invested in Accordance right now. 

I really hope the subscription model becomes an option, and not the only way to move forward with Logos. I'm sure a subscription plan will work for some people, but it's not for me. 

There is an article in The Conversation reporting that the Google browser feature "AI Overviews" -- which is supposed to summarize written content (like Logos says it will do in their software)  -- recently reported to one user that people should eat one rock per day as a source of minerals (according to a UC Berkeley study), and another that said you can add glue to pizza sauce to keep the cheese from sliding off. Another response reported that astronauts had encountered cats on the moon.

GIGO, I guess. The AI summarize feature in Logos is working on one book at a time, not pulling data from all over the internet and spitting out a Franken-thing. Now, if my Logos book has garbage mixed in, I won't be surprised if the generated summary is smelly as well.

You can see that garbage is spewed even when it is collecting information from correct sources.

The Logos summarization feature is giving you a summary for Document A, another summary for Document B, and so on. It isn't giving you a summary that is a combination of Documents A and B.

(As to whether it can take the info in Document A only and still cobble together nonsense, I don't know enough to say, but this uncertainty is not  enough for me stop using the feature. But I certainly wouldn't trust it if it was set up like Google's AI Overview.)

Please, people who are techies, let me know if my understanding is correct.

I don't believe that is how AI works. Simply, it is a language-based program that uses algorithms based on linguistic rules that are backed up by datasets, not a program that collages information regardless of the source of origins and context. So in your hypothetical documents, the 5 miles per hour will be tied to running uphill due to the context and syntax of the sentence. So if you ask it a question, it is going to answer based on the documents provided. It should not, unless the wording in the documents is misleading, give an incorrect answer by changing the numbers around in your scenario because that would break the linguistic rules.

The reason why AI gives incorrect answers is based on the algorithms. It is sometimes difficult for it to determine what is true and false, such as fiction and non-fiction or satirical and non-satirical writings. Secondly, words and syntax have and create multiple meanings and thus can create misunderstandings. Thirdly, it has to account for cultural/regional terminologies too. I can say I want a coke in Texas, when I really want a Dr. Pepper. However, someone in South Dakota may say pop or soda. In essence, language is ambiguous and that is the main reason why it gets information wrong.

I am pretty sure this list of reasons why AI gives incorrect answers is longer than this, but the main point is that it should not collage information in a way that breaks linguistics rules as your scenario provided. 

I finally had some time to give the free trial a little time (I will never subscribe, but wanted to see what was going on, so I have at least a little understanding)

A few resources that I didn't have that were nice, but not worth renting via subscription and losing when I cancel.

The AI features.... Fair Warning, so maybe a slight bias - but I am not a fan of using AI to write sermons/lectures/teaching lessons - these should come through study, prayer and commitment to the subject - not a microwaved, AI generated script! Also - does plagiarism not potentially get twisted into this weave of generated data?

The Insights bar.... Could be a decent addition, but not worth subscription

Summarization could be useful, especially for books a user is not familiar with - though I did test it on a PB that I added from my ebooks and it would not work there. Again not worth a subscription.

I don't use Dark Mode on my PC version, so the instant Dark/Light doesn't intrigue me - but I do agree with what many have stated about the feature. If it is behind the subscription paywall, that's just a sign of how bad the new Logos is getting.

So, overall I can see the benefit of this subscription for new users or users really interested in AI Features. Users with larger libraries and no interest in AI, well they'd basically be paying to be a Beta tester of old - getting early access to features not yet public.

Now the question is..... Are the new users and those interested in AI more valuable in the eyes of Mark Barnes and the PE firm than the long term customers that have no interest in subscription only and want to own their features.....  We have 4 days remaining for the next update some of us were told was a goal by the end of this month..... Hopefully our feedback is honored - anything that does not include the ability to outright purchase and not have to subscribe is a slap in the face to all of us who have given our feedback against Subscription Only (and yes that includes any "Rent to Own" scheme of the Subscription method.)

As a longtime user with a very large library, I agree with much of what you said, Frank. However, for myself the AI all search has been very useful whereas the previous version was of absolutely no use although the version before that (the multisectioned one) had specific uses.

I think that's a fair observation as well, though it still wouldn't carry enough value for me to ever Subscribe - and then the current $9.99 if the vague info is understood correctly is a discount for L10 Full Feature owners, so the cost will likely be higher for everyone else - which carries even less value.

It would have been nice if Logos worked on improving the Search function(s) without the cost of AI - supposedly the AI path allows the easy search without knowing the search variables/strings/commands - would have been nice to leave AI out and just improve it overall.... Seems like that has been on the long time user wishlist for years....

For me in my use case, the summarize feature alone is a huge time saver when I am shifting through journal articles or monographs.

If this is already this useful as an 'early access' product, the future is bright.

I also like the opportunity to see new features added more frequently than every two years. The new dynamic resource toolbar is going to be a nice value add when they roll it out. 

In general, I like the direction of travel that this is going. I know this does not solve the ownership questions raised by many, so if they can land that plane well, we might have the best of all worlds.

I think the AI messaging is confusing the issue. From my understanding the subscription cost essentially replaces the bi-annual feature set. The argument is there is a need for steady revenue vs getting funds every 2 years focused on the software.

In exchange, we are supposed to receive incremental updates throughout the 2 years and ultimately feel as if it has similar value over that time period (factoring in inflation). The AI happens to be a cool, incremental change, but in no way should justify the subscription fee on its own.

Or stated in another way, if I am a M365 user, I don’t judge if the value is there by a single update. I judge the value on the benefit of the software to me and if I feel there are enough new features vs. buying a static legacy edition.

The other challenge with AI is the category is too broad, and really has nuances in its capabilities and how it is deployed. I’m not interested in generative AI, but might benefit from the substantially improved search!