Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

Hmm... From what I've observed, all of the subscription tiers will contain some features and some books. Many of us who have invested heavily in features and reading material in the past seem to stand to find that the subscriptions will have a little to no value for us at all. I think the whole thing about the complex and obstructive software is simply programmer entertainment. That is, it's much less fun to navigate for those of us without a master's degree in computer engineering, which most of us mobilizing this software don't have. While I logically must appreciate that many who values greatly much of what is on offer here have little to no use for denominational offerings, I think they're great, as I have been inclined to procure and draw upon resources from a variety of Christian traditions, and I have had up until now a certain greater freedom to build a library of a combination of such. It's been great that other people can draw upon them and learn from them, too. I don't suppose it was ever meant to just be a top-down thing, where people who avail themselves of them use them to teach and acculturate their own students; it's been meant to support biblical scholars of different backgrounds learning from each other, and so I think pushing the denominational libraries back to the spring is a disservice.

It seems like the greatest lesson in stewardship is that more important than the sheer volume of money involved is making wise moves in tough times.

The Bible software is being replaced. This is an explicit statement made by FL in multiple ways and multiple places.

Being as there are supposedly many places where this explicit statement can be found, would you kindly provide just one?

I am sorry that this process has led you to form assumptions and judgements that are untrue. I understand how this can easily happen. However, I can say with confidence that what is really happening is not at all as bad as what you think is happening.

Being as there are supposedly many places where this explicit statement can be found, would you kindly provide just one?

Farewell tour seems clear enough language to me.

[quote]

I am sorry that this process has led you to form assumptions and judgements that are untrue. I understand how this can easily happen. However, I can say with confidence that what is really happening is not at all as bad as what you think is happening.

Wow. Yes, of course, I'm so dumb in the ways of FL that I have untrue beliefs, and I'm to be pitied.

Okay, I'm done with this thread. I've tried to make coherent, logical arguments, and the response just goes something like this: "FL is the only perfect company in the world ... they are lifted up on the wings of angels ... they would never use ambiguous language for marketing purposes ... FL doesn't care about making a profit, they only care about their users!"

And I'm dumb.

Just wow.

I think the whole thing about the complex and obstructive software is simply programmer entertainment.

As a former programmer I have to defend them. What would a car look like if it had features from each decade since 1930? If forward gears were automatic and reverse & overdrive were manual? That is the position of much software today. The features of the very early personal computers have been replaced as permitted by the underlying data but the desktop has features designed for CRT monitors (green and amber), features designed for primitive web, features designed for full spectrum plasma screens, ... all these are alive and well. The technology that Logos runs on has been changing rapidly over the 30 years of its existence, the knowledge of what makes an ideal user interface has been growing as well, the tools to support development have been improving changing the equation for what is cost effective. Programmers require an unusual personality ... one that always accepts the blame - the computer is right; you and only you messed up. And one willing to accept that anything they implement is no longer cutting edge ... someone has already moved forward a bit more than you when you designed the project.

Wow. Yes, of course, I'm so dumb in the ways of FL that I have untrue beliefs, and I'm to be pitied.

Okay, I'm done with this thread. I've tried to make coherent, logical arguments, and the response just goes something like this: "FL is the only perfect company in the world ... they are lifted up on the wings of angels ... they would never use ambiguous language for marketing purposes ... FL doesn't care about making a profit, they only care about their users!"

And I'm dumb.

Just wow.

My goodness. The drama. Amazing. 

Russ, it almost sounds like you DON'T WANT to have a future with Logos as a sustainable program, with all your books permanently accessible. I'm definitely not as smart as some of these folks, but I've seen enough from Logos to feel comfortable taking their commitments at face value. 

Here's one example: "If you’ve already purchased Logos packages or feature sets, those are yours to keep—you won’t lose them. You’ll continue to be able to use the features you’ve paid for, regardless of whether you subscribe to the latest version." From their FAQs.

Over and over, in the forums and on the website, Logos has insisted that people won't lose features or resources they currently have now. Why do I believe them? Because, while they are a for-profit company, they are doing something they believe in. Because their handling of WordSearch libraries demonstrated their commitment to a core idea of the company: You can keep your resources forever. 

I was nervous for a bit when they said that sermon features and auto-translate would be subscription features. But a couple hours digging around gave me documented evidence that I would be able to keep it. Auto-translate may be limited for number of queries, but even that was considered - it speaks positively to me. 

I don't see better software options, and I expect the subscription will actually work out better financially for users like me - preaching regularly, a couple thousand invested, and locked in at a discounted price. 

Two scenarios that concern me: 

1. The software becomes so dependent on AI/cloud-based features, I feel compelled to subscribe. But if this happens, it will likely be the reality of my world overall, not just some anomaly from Logos. 
2. Despite my investment in the platform, Logos will creep their prices up unreasonably in the coming months/years, and I will not be able to afford it. Currently, $10-15/month is great (I'm at FFS). $20/month would give me pause, and more than that would make me back out. 

Even with my concerns - some of which align with your rants - I remain flummoxed at how you don't seem to accept the clear statements from Logos that contradict your claims. Here's hoping - for both our sakes! - that I'm right. 

Cheers, 

Being as there are supposedly many places where this explicit statement can be found, would you kindly provide just one?

Farewell tour seems clear enough language to me.

[quote]

I am sorry that this process has led you to form assumptions and judgements that are untrue. I understand how this can easily happen. However, I can say with confidence that what is really happening is not at all as bad as what you think is happening.

Wow. Yes, of course, I'm so dumb in the ways of FL that I have untrue beliefs, and I'm to be pitied.

Okay, I'm done with this thread. I've tried to make coherent, logical arguments, and the response just goes something like this: "FL is the only perfect company in the world ... they are lifted up on the wings of angels ... they would never use ambiguous language for marketing purposes ... FL doesn't care about making a profit, they only care about their users!"

And I'm dumb.

Just wow.

Wow. This post. Honestly, when I read the farewell tour, I thought it was a catchy marketing tactic as they are about to move to the next version of Logos, so they are saying "farewell" to Logos 10. As far as I can tell, they aren't changing the software entirely, but parts are changing, i.e., new features that are being added.

No one said you are dumb in the ways of FaithLife; those are your words and your words alone. And if you have read through many of the posts here, you would see that most people don't think FL is perfect, and I'm sure many would say that they are far from it! So, I'm sorry you feel this way.

It would seem it's more accurate to say that the software itself is not being replaced, at least not completely and outright. 

It seems like the feature sets they're selling and their model for selling it are.

I think the whole thing about the complex and obstructive software is simply programmer entertainment.

As a former programmer I have to defend them. What would a car look like if it had features from each decade since 1930? If forward gears were automatic and reverse & overdrive were manual? That is the position of much software today. The features of the very early personal computers have been replaced as permitted by the underlying data but the desktop has features designed for CRT monitors (green and amber), features designed for primitive web, features designed for full spectrum plasma screens, ... all these are alive and well. The technology that Logos runs on has been changing rapidly over the 30 years of its existence, the knowledge of what makes an ideal user interface has been growing as well, the tools to support development have been improving changing the equation for what is cost effective. Programmers require an unusual personality ... one that always accepts the blame - the computer is right; you and only you messed up. And one willing to accept that anything they implement is no longer cutting edge ... someone has already moved forward a bit more than you when you designed the project.

Well, advancing technology is good. Complicating it to the point of user obstruction without consumer prompting or functional cause is not. Part of my concern has been that a lot of the new technology being brought in via this new subscription model seems to have been developed to facilitate things being done for the user instead of focusing on the bigger picture of helping consumers to make use of the software themselves, particularly the artificial intelligence. At the risk of sounding redundant, the concept of application to it here seems to have come from out of nowhere. 

II don't think it's fair to say that programmers need to have an unusual personality; what they need to have is a mind for the very basics of math, the elements that come in before anybody even gets into numbers. They need to be able to work well with it and work hard at it, but in order to be able to work for the best of it and ultimately do the best job in the way that working well entails, they need to keep an eye toward ultimate service to the consumer, and the way this all has manifested here... That's what makes it seem problematic in a way that makes me feel as though this is a computer programmer's laughingstock.

Russ, it almost sounds like you DON'T WANT to have a future with Logos as a sustainable program, with all your books permanently accessible. I'm definitely not as smart as some of these folks, but I've seen enough from Logos to feel comfortable taking their commitments at face value. 

Here's one example: "If you’ve already purchased Logos packages or feature sets, those are yours to keep—you won’t lose them. You’ll continue to be able to use the features you’ve paid for, regardless of whether you subscribe to the latest version." From their FAQs.

Over and over, in the forums and on the website, Logos has insisted that people won't lose features or resources they currently have now. Why do I believe them? Because, while they are a for-profit company, they are doing something they believe in. Because their handling of WordSearch libraries demonstrated their commitment to a core idea of the company: You can keep your resources forever. 

I was nervous for a bit when they said that sermon features and auto-translate would be subscription features. But a couple hours digging around gave me documented evidence that I would be able to keep it. Auto-translate may be limited for number of queries, but even that was considered - it speaks positively to me. 

I don't see better software options, and I expect the subscription will actually work out better financially for users like me - preaching regularly, a couple thousand invested, and locked in at a discounted price. 

Two scenarios that concern me: 

1. The software becomes so dependent on AI/cloud-based features, I feel compelled to subscribe. But if this happens, it will likely be the reality of my world overall, not just some anomaly from Logos. 
2. Despite my investment in the platform, Logos will creep their prices up unreasonably in the coming months/years, and I will not be able to afford it. Currently, $10-15/month is great (I'm at FFS). $20/month would give me pause, and more than that would make me back out. 

Even with my concerns - some of which align with your rants - I remain flummoxed at how you don't seem to accept the clear statements from Logos that contradict your claims. Here's hoping - for both our sakes! - that I'm right. 

Cheers, 

You know something, Dru? After I heard about this farewell tour, I analyzed my order history with the company and found that I had spent something like $73 in a little over a year, and I matched that just to get the Silver Feature Package down to a level that I could afford. It may cost more than a subscription right now, but I know the cost won't be on my plate forever.

Don't you think you already have so much at your disposal that subscribing doesn't make sense?

II don't think it's fair to say that programmers need to have an unusual personality;

My experience is that many people who train as programmers and are good at what they do, leave the profession for related positions because they don't have the personality for it. My experience includes teaching for a computer manufacture, programming on equipment from 4 different manufacturers, and managing a large administrative system. But I know from my immediately family that a broader range of skills is now considered programming.

II don't think it's fair to say that programmers need to have an unusual personality;

My experience is that many people who train as programmers and are good at what they do, leave the profession for related positions because they don't have the personality for it. My experience includes teaching for a computer manufacture, programming on equipment from 4 different manufacturers, and managing a large administrative system. But I know from my immediately family that a broader range of skills is now considered programming.

That doesn't seem to make programmers unusual.

There's part of me wondering if the slow response in general has to do with a potential that there is a lack of Fallback eligible features for those who own the FFS already - I hope this is not the case but if the only features eligible are instant dark mode and the new toolbar which seems less than favorable, that isn't very enticing for a sales pitch to long time and power users... Only Logos knows which Features qualify, but most of the new features do seem to be AI and or cloud reliant, which based on the bits of info likely disqualifies them from Fallback,,,,

Honestly, the slow response is simply because the transition to subscription is a whole-company effort, and therefore, some things are bogged down in bureaucracy in a way that's very unusual in Logos. We're generally able to make decisions pretty quickly, and I and others usually get lots of freedom in what we can do and say. But with such a major shift for us, there are more formal processes right now than there would normally be.

And, to be fair, it makes sense. You don't want to get a different answer to the question from different people in the company, and the "bureaucracy" is designed to ensure that something is communicated effectively internally before it's communicated externally. And, while getting an answer to this question is top of my priority list, I have dozens of colleagues with questions other customers are asking them, and I have to be patient and wait my turn because their questions are important, too.

(Which I know doesn't help at all with the "clock" ticking down –  and I'm sorry about that. But that is the reality. I and others have pushed to get the "clock" extended to ensure we can answer that question before the end of the sale, and I'm hopeful that will happen.)

I appreciate the honesty in regards to the bureaucracy that is now holding Logos back from what us "old timers" are used to in many ways.... But, I have to be honest that it does lay a level of concern as a customer, as to how much the bureaucracy can hold the Logos team back from effectively and efficiently marketing not only to new customers, but also remembering the customers that helped build the company through the years.

I hope that the extension you and others are fighting for is honored, else that is a poor start to the "new" era of Logos...

There's part of me wondering if the slow response in general has to do with a potential that there is a lack of Fallback eligible features for those who own the FFS already - I hope this is not the case but if the only features eligible are instant dark mode and the new toolbar which seems less than favorable, that isn't very enticing for a sales pitch to long time and power users... Only Logos knows which Features qualify, but most of the new features do seem to be AI and or cloud reliant, which based on the bits of info likely disqualifies them from Fallback,,,,

Honestly, the slow response is simply because the transition to subscription is a whole-company effort, and therefore, some things are bogged down in bureaucracy in a way that's very unusual in Logos. We're generally able to make decisions pretty quickly, and I and others usually get lots of freedom in what we can do and say. But with such a major shift for us, there are more formal processes right now than there would normally be.

And, to be fair, it makes sense. You don't want to get a different answer to the question from different people in the company, and the "bureaucracy" is designed to ensure that something is communicated effectively internally before it's communicated externally. And, while getting an answer to this question is top of my priority list, I have dozens of colleagues with questions other customers are asking them, and I have to be patient and wait my turn because their questions are important, too.

(Which I know doesn't help at all with the "clock" ticking down –  and I'm sorry about that. But that is the reality. I and others have pushed to get the "clock" extended to ensure we can answer that question before the end of the sale, and I'm hopeful that will happen.)

I appreciate the honesty in regards to the bureaucracy that is now holding Logos back from what us "old timers" are used to in many ways.... But, I have to be honest that it does lay a level of concern as a customer, as to how much the bureaucracy can hold the Logos team back from effectively and efficiently marketing not only to new customers, but also remembering the customers that helped build the company through the years.

I hope that the extension you and others are fighting for is honored, else that is a poor start to the "new" era of Logos...

And I really do hope this gets extended until the information is provided, as I've had a potential purchase sitting in my cart for a while waiting for answers.... If it passes without extension, then it's just another sale that Logos misses out on.... (Not to mention one of the separate resources I put in has increased twice already from two dollars and change to four dollars and change now...)

I officially made the leap to logos full features 

I so happy and afraid lol 

I had max subscription 

I think ill notch it back to pro 

what are peoples thoughts ?

I officially made the leap to logos full features 

I so happy and afraid lol 

I had max subscription 

I think ill notch it back to pro 

what are peoples thoughts ?

If the features included were features you desired and will use - my personal opinion is that it's better to own. If you decide to continue subscribing you'll qualify for the FFS discount as well.

Legacy in IT means: "This is something we no longer want to support, but we must. We will find a way to stop supporting it when we can." Legacy can have a positive meaning in some contexts, but there is no positive meaning for the term in IT.

We chose the word "legacy" partly because it already has a specific meaning in Logos. For years we have Legacy Libraries, which are a way of users purchasing "old" libraries (Logos 7, Logos 8, etc.). The Legacy Fallback License is similar. It's not the newest version of the software, but it's still a valuable collection of features.

Fallback in IT means: "This is less than ideal. It needs to be corrected to reach/restore proper system functioning." 

I understand what you mean, but that's not how I'd describe it.

A "fallback" is a kind of safety net. So if you main power supply stops working, you'd fallback to a backup power supply. That's much better than losing all power.

We're using the term in a similar way. The fallback license isn't as good as owning the subscription, but it's a really great backup, and better than crashing back to the free edition or whatever you had before subscription.

Instead, what Faithlife is saying is: "There are no new versions of this software; it is being replaced by a subscription service. We pinky promise to keep the old legacy software around as a fallback in case you don't want the subscription, but we're not going to put a service life in writing, etc."

We've said the opposite of this.

There absolutely are new versions of the software, both for subscribers and non-subscribers. We've committed to that. Both subscribers and non-subscribers will continue to use exactly the same applications. We are not keeping "old legacy software around" at all. Here's one example where we have said this.

Unlike most software companies, we make our latest software available to everyone. Even if the last feature set you bought was Logos 4 in 2009 (or even Logos 1 in 1991!), you’ll continue to receive free app updates ensuring you can use Logos with future operating systems and books. You’ll even continue to receive bug fixes for free, too. Of course, if you’re not a subscriber, the latest features and upgrades will not be enabled for you, but you’ll be using the same core software as all our other customers.

So, to be very clear:

There is no legacy software that becomes a second-class citizen and will eventually stop being updated. There are only legacy fallback licenses, which are old, but valuable, and provide a safety net so that if you stop subscribing, you won't end up with nothing. The licenses won't get updated (so no new features), but the software will get updated (so no compatibility issues or forced obsolescence).

The bottom line, for me, is this: the entire legacy fallback charade is a transition plan to the bright new future of subscription-only access to the books I've already purchased. At some point I'm going to be forced to either stop accessing that material or purchase a subscription to continue accessing it, pinky promises or not.

I know there are a lot of posts on here, and it's easy to lose track of what is being said, but I would encourage you to re-read this post (I'm not asking you to read the whole thread), because somehow you've concluded we're going to do the exact opposite of what we've said we will do.

I officially made the leap to logos full features 

I so happy and afraid lol 

I had max subscription 

I think ill notch it back to pro 

what are peoples thoughts ?

I personally think you made a great choice.  Even if you don't subscribe you get to keep the could and AI features you just paid for.  Plus, if you decide to subscribe, you can start with Pro or Max and get a discount on either.  Right now there is nothing extra on the Max plan other than 100 additional books.  Hopefully that will change soon as I would love to see what they consider a Max feature.

Legacy in IT means: "This is something we no longer want to support, but we must. We will find a way to stop supporting it when we can." Legacy can have a positive meaning in some contexts, but there is no positive meaning for the term in IT.

We chose the word "legacy" partly because it already has a specific meaning in Logos. For years we have Legacy Libraries, which are a way of users purchasing "old" libraries (Logos 7, Logos 8, etc.). The Legacy Fallback License is similar. It's not the newest version of the software, but it's still a valuable collection of features.

Fallback in IT means: "This is less than ideal. It needs to be corrected to reach/restore proper system functioning." 

I understand what you mean, but that's not how I'd describe it.

A "fallback" is a kind of safety net. So if you main power supply stops working, you'd fallback to a backup power supply. That's much better than losing all power.

We're using the term in a similar way. The fallback license isn't as good as owning the subscription, but it's a really great backup, and better than crashing back to the free edition or whatever you had before subscription.

Instead, what Faithlife is saying is: "There are no new versions of this software; it is being replaced by a subscription service. We pinky promise to keep the old legacy software around as a fallback in case you don't want the subscription, but we're not going to put a service life in writing, etc."

We've said the opposite of this.

There absolutely are new versions of the software, both for subscribers and non-subscribers. We've committed to that. Both subscribers and non-subscribers will continue to use exactly the same applications. We are not keeping "old legacy software around" at all. Here's one example where we have said this.

Unlike most software companies, we make our latest software available to everyone. Even if the last feature set you bought was Logos 4 in 2009 (or even Logos 1 in 1991!), you’ll continue to receive free app updates ensuring you can use Logos with future operating systems and books. You’ll even continue to receive bug fixes for free, too. Of course, if you’re not a subscriber, the latest features and upgrades will not be enabled for you, but you’ll be using the same core software as all our other customers.

So, to be very clear:

There is no legacy software that becomes a second-class citizen and will eventually stop being updated. There are only legacy fallback licenses, which are old, but valuable, and provide a safety net so that if you stop subscribing, you won't end up with nothing. The licenses won't get updated (so no new features), but the software will get updated (so no compatibility issues or forced obsolescence).

The bottom line, for me, is this: the entire legacy fallback charade is a transition plan to the bright new future of subscription-only access to the books I've already purchased. At some point I'm going to be forced to either stop accessing that material or purchase a subscription to continue accessing it, pinky promises or not.

I know there are a lot of posts on here, and it's easy to lose track of what is being said, but I would encourage you to re-read this post (I'm not asking you to read the whole thread), because somehow you've concluded we're going to do the exact opposite of what we've said we will do.

Patience is a virtue that you are full of. (ok, all you grammarians there...please don't correct me.)

Patience is a virtue that you are full of. (ok, all you grammarians there...please don't correct me.)

Of course, not - the rule does not belong in English. The early English grammarians tried to shove a Germanic language into their classical Greek and Latin grammars. From perplexity [quote]In Germanic languages, including English, it's natural and grammatically correct to end sentences with prepositions in many cases

I and others have pushed to get the "clock" extended to ensure we can answer that question before the end of the sale, and I'm hopeful that will happen.)

And the sale has been extended to 30 September!

I and others have pushed to get the "clock" extended to ensure we can answer that question before the end of the sale, and I'm hopeful that will happen.)

And the sale has been extended to 30 September!

They could have given us more notice!

This was me:

O_O

That's why natural language is the most powerful coding of all.

(Which I know doesn't help at all with the "clock" ticking down –  and I'm sorry about that. But that is the reality. I and others have pushed to get the "clock" extended to ensure we can answer that question before the end of the sale, and I'm hopeful that will happen.)

Well done Mark and team, that fought to get through the bureaucracy to get the sale extended - I hope that you're not limited by the same in getting the information out for users to make the educated decisions and purchase choices! 

(Which I know doesn't help at all with the "clock" ticking down –  and I'm sorry about that. But that is the reality. I and others have pushed to get the "clock" extended to ensure we can answer that question before the end of the sale, and I'm hopeful that will happen.)

Well done Mark and team, that fought to get through the bureaucracy to get the sale extended - I hope that you're not limited by the same in getting the information out for users to make the educated decisions and purchase choices! 

Agreed!  Thank you Mark and team for extending the sale a little longer so people can make clear decisions.  On that note, if you can just give us all a steady cadence of information as things get clearer on the roadmap, everyone will benefit and there will definitely be less frustration.  And you'll probably sleep better :-)

Every single book I've purchased from Logos since Version 1.6 in 1995 is still in my library. Faithlife strikes me as a company that keeps its promises.

Mark… your consistent model of grace to those who choose to post with an edge about them (and sometimes inaccurate conclusions) is an inspiration to me.  Keep up the awesome work!

I agree wholeheartedly!

Thanks Stephen and Frank. 

Really loving it so far Glory to God 

Thanks Stephen and Frank. 

Really loving it so far Glory to God 

Thanks Stephen and Frank. 

Really loving it so far Glory to God 

Glad you are enjoying it!

Well, I hope you've taken stock of what I've had to say so far, sir.

On that note, if you can just give us all a steady cadence of information as things get clearer on the roadmap, everyone will benefit and there will definitely be less frustration.

Yes, that's the plan. We know you guys are eager for more, so we hope you won't have to wait as long for the next update.

Logos website has the "rentals" page: https://www.logos.com/rentals
where you can rent some resources and collections, and the cost of a monthly rental is between 2% and 3% of the full collection price.
For example, the Charles Spurgeon Collection costs $784.99, while a monthly rental of this collection costs $15.95, which is 2% of the cost of the full collection.
Unfortunately, the list of resources/collections on the "rentals" page is quite small.

I think that that adding the possibility to rent essentially any resources or collections aligns well with the upcoming shift to the subscription-based model.
The possibility to rent any resources or even large collections and legacy libraries will make the subscription much more attractive to the Logos users,
especially if this possibility will be available only to the current subscribers.
Some users could use this possibility to try the resources and collections before committing to a permanent purchase.
Others will find it more affordable to rent any resources for a limited time while they need them for their study.
As far as I understand, the subscription tiers are going to offer some predefined sets of books, which for some users who already own (some of) these resources may not be very valuable.
So, if the subscribers will be able to rent any other books or collections (of course, at an additional cost), this would make the subscription really attractive.

Logos website has the "rentals" page: https://www.logos.com/rentals
where you can rent some resources and collections, and the cost of a monthly rental is between 2% and 3% of the full collection price.
For example, the Charles Spurgeon Collection costs $784.99, while a monthly rental of this collection costs $15.95, which is 2% of the cost of the full collection.
Unfortunately, the list of resources/collections on the "rentals" page is quite small.

I think that that adding the possibility to rent essentially any resources or collections aligns well with the upcoming shift to the subscription-based model.
The possibility to rent any resources or even large collections and legacy libraries will make the subscription much more attractive to the Logos users,
especially if this possibility will be available only to the current subscribers.
Some users could use this possibility to try the resources and collections before committing to a permanent purchase.
Others will find it more affordable to rent any resources for a limited time while they need them for their study.
As far as I understand, the subscription tiers are going to offer some predefined sets of books, which for some users who already own (some of) these resources may not be very valuable.
So, if the subscribers will be able to rent any other books or collections (of course, at an additional cost), this would make the subscription really attractive.

This sounds like something very helpful for many, but I want to add that my biggest fear is that everything will eventually go this direction with a subscription base model.

So by all means, do something like this gentleman suggested for people who desire it, but I beg of you, keep the ability to buy packages and books in the same way that currently exists.  

So by all means, do something like this gentleman suggested for people who desire it, but I beg of you, keep the ability to buy packages and books in the same way that currently exists.  

Of course, the ability to buy packages and books is important and is not going away, as stated in the subscription FAQ (see the answer to the question "Can I still buy and keep books, or will they be a subscription too?").

I just hope that the introduction of the subscriptions will allow to rent any resources and collections, but not a very limited set.

So by all means, do something like this gentleman suggested for people who desire it, but I beg of you, keep the ability to buy packages and books in the same way that currently exists.  

Of course, the ability to buy packages and books is important and is not going away, as stated in the subscription FAQ (see the answer to the question "Can I still buy and keep books, or will they be a subscription too?").

Well, not quite. The FAQ is wiggle-worded. Books and collections, yes. New packages (eg L11 Bronze, Silver, etc), no ... you need a subscription. But! Mark said you could sign up for the free temporary subscription, buy your package, and cancel. How's that!

Of course, the ability to buy packages and books is important and is not going away, as stated in the subscription FAQ (see the answer to the question "Can I still buy and keep books, or will they be a subscription too?").

I know it is not going away anytime soon, but I do think it is important that we are quite vocal about what we don't want subscriptions to turn into because other platforms have fallen down the subscription rabbit hole.  With that said, I do have a lot of faith in Faith Life.

Need some help.  I have Logos Max Subscription but the Bible Study Builder tool says it isn't available.  What am I doing wrong?

Need some help.  I have Logos Max Subscription but the Bible Study Builder tool says it isn't available.  What am I doing wrong?

Need some help.  I have Logos Max Subscription but the Bible Study Builder tool says it isn't available.  What am I doing wrong?

What platform is this on Mike?

And what version of Logos are you running?

I have Logos Max Subscription but the Bible Study Builder tool says it isn't available.

The Bible Study Builder hasn't been released yet in a stable version. It's still in beta.

Need some help.  I have Logos Max Subscription but the Bible Study Builder tool says it isn't available.  What am I doing wrong?

I could be wrong, but there are two things regarding BSB:

1. It is in beta, so you will need to be on the beta testing track.

2. You need to follow the Logos Pro (Early Access) group at Faithlife.com

Need some help.  I have Logos Max Subscription but the Bible Study Builder tool says it isn't available.  What am I doing wrong?

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/225257/1316064.aspx

here is more information on how you can get access to it. 

Apprehension Regarding Subscription Service

You mention I will get 200-500 new books which will enhance the data matching of AI but will we have any say in the books? I'm not interested in certain schools of theology and if their books are included I foresee me spending more time exegeting your AI's output than the scriptures themselves.

Welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing your reaction. Relax. If you chose to run AI assisted searches, which is a personal choice, you can run it against your own choice of a collection of books. This allows you to get results without worrying about "contaminated" results any more than you do now.

your sentence diagramming was on par with Biblearc.

This can easily be done in Logos but is limited in automation due to copyright issues I have heard from outside sources which may not the reliable.

Slightly off this threads topic...

I had to abandon Adobe and have lost my passion for photography as a result. I still shoot but now I have settled for the camera to just process the photo into jpgs and use inadequate filters to process the photos while damaging the files.

Hi Jim,

This is in no way a response to your Logos question, but instead a suggestion for your Photo editing. You might want to take a look at Capture One.

You can subscribe to it, but you can also but a perpetual license for it. It is similar to Lightroom. I use it to shoot tethered. I like it anyway.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread topic...  

Slightly off this threads topic...

I had to abandon Adobe and have lost my passion for photography as a result. I still shoot but now I have settled for the camera to just process the photo into jpgs and use inadequate filters to process the photos while damaging the files.

Hi Jim,

This is in no way a response to your Logos question, but instead a suggestion for your Photo editing. You might want to take a look at Capture One.

You can subscribe to it, but you can also but a perpetual license for it. It is similar to Lightroom. I use it to shoot tethered. I like it anyway.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread topic...  

For free open source GIMP is used as a Photoshop alternative and is held with high regard. Darktable is another, though I've not tried that one yet.

Slightly off this threads topic...

I had to abandon Adobe and have lost my passion for photography as a result. I still shoot but now I have settled for the camera to just process the photo into jpgs and use inadequate filters to process the photos while damaging the files.

Hi Jim,

This is in no way a response to your Logos question, but instead a suggestion for your Photo editing. You might want to take a look at Capture One.

You can subscribe to it, but you can also but a perpetual license for it. It is similar to Lightroom. I use it to shoot tethered. I like it anyway.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread topic...  

For free open source GIMP is used as a Photoshop alternative and is held with high regard. Darktable is another, though I've not tried that one yet.

For what it's worth, I've recently purchased ACDSee Ultimate as an alternative to Photoshop.  It too comes with both a subscription and a perpetual license option, and looks like a good alternative (though I'm still a real newbie at digital photography post-processing). 

For all my reservations; today I shelled out $190 for a two year subscription; it's probably equivalent to what I normally pay for the full feature set ( my library is big enough and I now only purchase those books I actually want ), I still don't think AI is a great step forward but as a lay member many of the recent previous features haven't actually been a great step forward for me either; I now have a two year subscription because I want to continue supporting Logos as I have in the past.

Logos 10 didn't do much for me but I bought into it. The last great step forward for me was the upgrade to the notes tool; adding notebooks along with the clippings tool is where I mostly use Logos.

     The whole subscription thing hasn't been that much different after all. I'll be happy to resubscribe in two years time.... so long as the cost is still comparable to previous releases.

Is the Free Version of Logos going away? The Free version I have been using going to stop working?