License Agreement
This is a copy of the
current license that is displayed in our software.
The short version is
this: "The license goes with the user. Every user must
purchase their own package. If you have a work machine and a laptop and
they are both yours for your personal use, you may load it on both for your
personal use - because the license goes
with the user." Can you purchase one package and have two
people use it? No. The license goes with the user. The license is a single user
license.
All licenses are single
human being licenses. We do not offer site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op
licenses, library licenses or multi-user licenses. A church or
company may be the purchaser and thus legal owner of the license grant,
but may only allow one human being to be the beneficiary of this license grant.
I'm confused, this license
agreement allows:
...two separate personal computers
as long as only one is used at a time.
And am I reading this right?
One person, only the licensed
person may use the software. Any other person, including a spouse, children, fellow
pastors, curious friends who wish to use the software in the absence of the
licensee would do so illegally.
Rob
Comments
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I use Logos on my desktop and laptop. My wife avoids computers like the plague and my daughter is only 3, so I am the only user.
It's my guess that limiting the license to the individual is to avoid my putting logos on 2 computers, but someone else is the primary user.
It's still a good question that I'm sure applies to others. I would also be interested in the answer.
Ron
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RQuanstrom said:
And am I reading this right?
One person, only the licensed
person may use the software. Any other person, including a spouse, children, fellow
pastors, curious friends who wish to use the software in the absence of the
licensee would do so illegally.I'm not a lawyer but it does appear to prohibit immediate family members living in the home to make use of it when the licensed owner is not at the computer.
I recently queried in another forum post (Logos on Kindle, I think).....
Do dual boot systems like MacOs/Windows constitute two installations?
What about "cloud computing?"
What about users who have a church office desktop, home desktop & a laptop for trips?
Then there are those titles useful for homeschooling that contain actual lessons:
Nehemiah Institute Worldview Collection
WallBuilders American Foundations Digital Library
The Christian History Library by F.A.C.E.
Is it illegal to use allow your highschooler to use these titles?
I appreciate the need for Logos to remain profitable. The base packages are an incredible value. If there is no income there can be no product. I've seen bootleg software, on eBay, of Quickverse, Biblesoft, Wordsearch and even Bibleworks. Piracy can wipe out a company. Logos has to do a balancing act between usability and vulnerability. So far I feel they have been more than fair to licensed users. But the current wording of the EULA does appear to forbid several good uses.(I'm still wondering how someone buys illegal Bible study software. OR steals a Bible at church. I have seen both occur.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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RonaldQuick said:
I use Logos on my desktop and laptop. My wife avoids computers like the plague and my daughter is only 3, so I am the only user.
It's my guess that limiting the license to the individual is to avoid my putting logos on 2 computers, but someone else is the primary user.
It's still a good question that I'm sure applies to others. I would also be interested in the answer.
Ron
Ron,
I have my desktop & laptop installations too. My wife , like yours, avoids computers. I have 10 children still at home but I don't take a chance allowing them to mess up my desktop. And I am using my "Bible Study" laptop over 8 hours a day making it impossible for others to use that Logos installation.
I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.
Another possible violation is using a projector in a Bible study group to show a lesson with notes & references. Would creating a Powerpoint presentation with Logos gathered material be legal? Morris Proctor might have special permission but do you? There are so many questions.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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The licensed owner IS allowed to use libronix for teaching purposes, such as with a projector in a class or church service. Why? Because the licensed owner is controlling the software.
If the owner is contolling the software to teach their children, it's the same idea.
Keep two things in mind:
1. It is not terribly expensive to buy additional copies of the software, at a lower level, for others to use
2. It is possible to transfer the licenses to other users
I frankly think that L has made a sincere attempt to be both clear and fair in their licensing practices, particularly when you consider the packaging discounts.
They could have chosen a different path - to allow for a license where different people could use a single license, but only one person at a time.
This would be helpful for "church library" and "family" applications, and I hope they will seriously consider making that possible. A simple internet-activation link would allow for policing it.
In the meantime, however, THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFINE IT HOWEVER THEY WISH, and I believe it is incumbent on us to respect that.
Over the years, I have purchased about a half-dozen licenses, because of this.=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
A couple of years ago, during the Libronix Bus Tour, they told us that family members were allowed to share the software.
It helped me 'close the deal' toward purchasing a larger library since my wife could also use it when she wanted to study something.
She's been slooowly learning the software over the past few years. Now I find that she's an ille-gal.
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JimDean said:
They could have chosen a different path - to allow for a license where different people could use a single license, but only one person at a time. This would be helpful for "church library" and "family" applications, and I hope they will seriously consider making that possible.
I don't know the details on this, but I think they must have a site license of some type since I know that some seminaries use Logos. I don't know how it works, but I'd almost wager that there is some form of a site license. BTW: This statement and my dollars and doughnut holes statements might be misunderstood -- especially by this group -- so I'll put a disclaimer here: I never bet on anything, not even if it's a sure thing.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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JimDean said:
The licensed owner IS allowed to use libronix for teaching purposes, such as with a projector in a class or church service.
I did not know that! Although I don't have need of that capability, it is good to know.
JimDean said:If the owner is controlling the software to teach their children, it's the same idea.
Keep two things in mind:
1. It is not terribly expensive to buy additional copies of the software, at a lower level, for others to useI didn't know that either! Guess I will have to call CS to inquire. I hope more of my kids will find the computer useful for Bible study.
As far as the staff at my church; I don't know what the individual preachers use since you rarely hear their sources from the pulpit (must be that preacher plagiarism issue.) I do know they do excellent preparation. I find they frequently bring up details I learned through my use of Logos. Many of the staff are also Bible college professors so I would be surprised if they don't have Logos.
JimDean said:
Over the years, I have purchased about a half-dozen licensesI have purchased several different releases of Logos dating back to the floppy-disk registration days.but never actually upgraded. Even when I went from Scholar Silver to Gold, I sold one license and purchased another. (I just handled the $99 transfer receipt today.) Logos has been very good at making this affordable. I don't have a "library allowance." I can't write-off the investment on my taxes. I am on a small, fixed retirement income. Still I have a software solution I could never have dreamed of owning.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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RQuanstrom said:
A couple of years ago, during the Libronix Bus Tour, they told us that family members were allowed to share the software.
It helped me 'close the deal' toward purchasing a larger library since my wife could also use it when she wanted to study something.
She's been slooowly learning the software over the past few years. Now I find that she's an ille-gal.
It will be a sad day if my wife cannot use my Logos digital Library. I can share every other thing with her except Logos, i am not sure how this fits in with the vows i made before God to share all my earthly possession with her. I am not sure European courts will agree with this and most will agree that their wives through great sacrifices and their own personal investment have allowed their husbands to purchase Logos bible software.
I for one do not think this is reasonable or practical, we have been here before so i shall hold my peace & give Logos the benefit of the doubt. I do think that Logos should clarify this matter.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Matthew C Jones said:
I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.
Fair enough, i do agree with the above comments. I don't think the whole staff in a church should be sharing one license.
Do Logos not have the option for group or institutional licenses at a higher price than individual purchases? My wife works in a school & they will have to purchase network licenses in addition to individual software packages if they want to make resources available to the whole school network, or even a part of it, rather than just on an individual PC. The licenses cost more depending on the size of the school or the number of PCs that will be able to access the software at one time. In other words a church with 5 pastors sharing access to Logos would pay perhaps double the cost of the normal purchase price, but not 5 times the amount & they would own it as a church resource, not personally. ie. if one of those pastors left to move to a different church they would not take Logos with them. It would belong to the church, not the individual pastors. The church would then make it available to it's staff / volunteers etc depending on what level of license access it purchased.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Matthew C Jones said:
I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.
That is what I would think - but I know that the library where my wife and I worked for many years had LOGOS materials in its collection - I don't know how they managed that?
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Floyd Johnson said:Matthew C Jones said:
I imagine Logos is trying to avoid having a community accessible computer in a church library where the whole staff is sharing one license. Another blatant violation of the spirit and letter of the EULA is somebody selling their laptop with a complete install with licenses synchronized. I have seen this happen on eBay with Wordsearch.
That is what I would think - but I know that the library where my wife and I worked for many years had LOGOS materials in its collection - I don't know how they managed that?
Floyd
I haven't seen that with Logos software but all across America colleges abuse the Fair Use doctrine of the copyright law. They photocopy a whole textbook (current edition) and sell it in their bookstore at retail prices for class use with the "fair use" notice in the front cover. That is clearly abuse. Many people today think nothing of copying music, software or movies. When I worked in the library at Bible college and we never had anything duplicated. Of course we didn't have students on computers in the 70's. [8-|]
I'm happy to say our church buys that annual license "thingy" for using photocopied music in the choir.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Ted Hans said:
It will be a sad day if my wife cannot use my Logos digital Library.
Provided you have only one wife i.e. you need 2 licences for 2 wives and their children [:D]
I have 5 Operating systems on two computers but I am the single user of those computers (my wife uses the older Logos 2.x on her computer). I do a lot of installations of Libronix because I periodically re-install two of the OS's. But I follow the spirit of the EULA where it states " the Software and Content are in use on only one computer at any time." and "that person may also use the Software and Content on a portable or home computer." But this wording should be revised because one computer is assumed to be a work computer, whilst both are mine for personal use - somewhat contradictory.
Also think about this, if I define a new User on my computer they also get to use Libronix, so it is installed for all users not just the primary user/admin ...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Also think about this, if I define a new User on my computer they also get to use Libronix, so it is installed for all users not just the primary user/admin
You know you could install it so only YOU can use it. But even with security measures two of my kids have hacked into my side before. [{][co][}]
I finally had to get my kid brother (Amazon.com ISP security wiz) to really secure the computer.[Y]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
You know you could install it so only YOU can use it.
The point was that Logos permit that to happen - they could fix it with Vista/Win7 so it installs only for the primary user.
Matthew C Jones said:I finally had to get my kid brother (Amazon.com ISP security wiz) to really secure the computer.
Even with strong Admin passwords and your children restricted to Standard/Limited accounts, they can change their account to an Admin!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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If you REALLY want to secure your computer ... ie not allow access to your work by anyone else ... use a removable hard drive. One for you ... another for everyone else. Keep yours in a safe ... C4 also acts as an effective deterrent.[:#]
=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
JimDean said:
use a removable hard drive
Ah, yes! The answer to teen rebellion in the household --> "please can i have the hard drive to hack!" [:)]
But the point was not to protect my/your work as to restrict the children's access to certain programs.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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JimDean said:
C4 also acts as an effective deterrent.
I think it was Mark Twain who said he would keep put teen agers into a barrel and feed them with through holes in the sides of the barrels. When they turned 18, he would fill up the holes. Having raised three sons, I can understand his sentiment.
Before my wife and I were married I wanted two children and she wanted four. That is absolutely true. So we compromised - now we don't want any.[;)] That thought came to me in a Sunday School class some 28 years ago.
Blessings,
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Dave Hooton said:Ted Hans said:
It will be a sad day if my wife cannot use my Logos digital Library.
Provided you have only one wife i.e. you need 2 licences for 2 wives and their children
Hi Dave,
What bible do you use? An interesting one i can see [:D] talk about a death wish, an early grave. A voice would be heard weeping with loud lamentation in the Logos forum saying Ted is no more & his mother refuses to be comforted but his wives are glad that he is gone for they have killed him.[:(]
Sir T.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Post withdrawn.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Hi George, okay sorry do me a favour by editing the reference to you from my post on your quote & i will do the same. I do like you & should be thoughful next time. I was referencing the King Henry joke when you said off with their heads(wives heads). The Anglican joke.
Sir T.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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It's a sad day when I have to provide security measures to insure that the wife and kids can't use my bible program.
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RQuanstrom said:
It's a sad day when I have to provide security measures to insure that the wife and kids can't use my bible program.
I sincerely hope you aren't serious. While an extremely literal reading of the EULA may indicate such, I hardly think Logos is going to get upset if your wife and kids use your resources. If you were to open up a store-front and advertise "Logos Resources for use. 24 computers loaded and waiting" using the same license for each, then I think they might have something to say. Use your head. That's the danger of literalism and why I sometimes take things very literally simply for the sake of humor.
Tell your wife and kids they can study the Bible using Logos all they want. I don't think Bob will object.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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RQuanstrom said:
It's a sad day when I have to provide security measures to insure that the wife and kids can't use my bible program.
George Somsel said:I sincerely hope you aren't serious. While an extremely literal reading of the EULA may indicate such, I hardly think Logos is going to get upset if your wife and kids use your resources. If you were to open up a store-front and advertise "Logos Resources for use. 24 computers loaded and waiting" using the same license for each, then I think they might have something to say. Use your head. That's the danger of literalism and why I sometimes take things very literally simply for the sake of humor.
Tell your wife and kids they can study the Bible using Logos all they want. I don't think Bob will object
Okay George last time you were right on the EULA & i should have listened. So this time i will take your word on this, & thanks for your kind response to my previous post.
Sir T.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Fwiw, imo you're ok letting your wife & kids use it, as long as none of them are Bible college students or in some kind of fulltime ministry.
"Joint property" laws apply for things like L licences in estate proceedings - but a "license" is not inherently joint property - ask any policeman or game warden.
After having many phone conversations about this with L staff over the years, and seeing the text of the Eula change more than once, it's obvious that they are stuggling to find a fair approach.
Keep in mind they have obligations to the people who license the books to them, to enforce a policy that is fair to the copyright owner.
My recommendation is, buy at least one extra license, maybe for the Bible Study pkg, just to be fair.
So, my "opinion" is that if you adhere to the #computers rule, and if there is rarely or never a time that you and your spouse are using it at the same time, and none of the other users are doing it as a "profession", as george said, I doubt that Bob would object - in person. However, I'm 99% confident thati pressed, he WiLL "lay down the law" in writing. And it won't be pretty.
It might be wise to consider terminating this thread for that very reason :-)=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
RQuanstrom said:
It's a sad day when I have to provide security measures to insure that the wife and kids can't use my bible program.
HeeHee [:P]
My kids aren't trying to use Logos. They are usually doing something that downloads spyware or ActiveX controls like Yahoo questions, Club Penguin, Facebook, Roblox, Sketchup, Google earth...................THATS why I got the dobermans chained to the desktop.
My wife likes BOOKS, not computers. She was more than a little unhappy when I sold The Complete Biblical Library. If I can only show her Logos does all that and more. Too bad it's all on computer
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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George Somsel said:
While an extremely literal reading of the EULA may indicate such, I hardly think Logos is going to get upset if your wife and kids use your resources. If you were to open up a store-front and advertise "Logos Resources for use. 24 computers loaded and waiting" using the same license for each, then I think they might have something to say. Use your head. That's the danger of literalism and why I sometimes take things very literally simply for the sake of humor.
So the Literal meaning of the EULA says we can't share the software with family.
But the Dynamic Equivalence says
George Somsel said:your wife and kids they can study the Bible using Logos all they want. I don't think Bob will object
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:George Somsel said:
While an extremely literal reading of the EULA may indicate such, I hardly think Logos is going to get upset if your wife and kids use your resources. If you were to open up a store-front and advertise "Logos Resources for use. 24 computers loaded and waiting" using the same license for each, then I think they might have something to say. Use your head. That's the danger of literalism and why I sometimes take things very literally simply for the sake of humor.
So the Literal meaning of the EULA says we can't share the software with family.
But the Dynamic Equivalence says
George Somsel said:your wife and kids they can study the Bible using Logos all they want. I don't think Bob will object
I prefer to call it the "non-Pharisaical meaning."
23 One sabbath he was going through the grainfields; and as they made their way his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the sabbath?” 25 And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need of food? 26 He entered the house of God, when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and he gave some to his companions.” 27 Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.”george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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JimDean said:
"Joint property" laws apply for things like L licences in estate proceedings - but a "license" is not inherently joint property - ask any policeman or game warden.
Despite the caveat that "Joint property" laws apply for things like L licences in estate proceedings, I have checked on this from my end - a "license" can also be an inherently joint property, the possibility does exist. Perhaps our laws in the UK are different from the US.
Hi Jim, i am not sure who you were directing your post to, if it was to everyone on this thread or someone in particular. It may be helpful to include a quote so that one can follow who & what is being responded to.
Every Blessings.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Hi, Ted:
The post was not directed to anyone in particular, just an attempt to defuse the tension and to help people to be content with what the Lord has provided them through the hard work of the folks at Libronix, and through the many godly people who've written the books we enjoy.
I sometimes get in trouble when I attempt to couch comments in a humorous manner ... I should forbear that tendency in open forums. I had no intention to attack or insult anyone.
Libronix has chosen, in *their* EULA, to specifically exclude other members of the family. There were some comments about this. I was trying to point out that the "joint property" laws (in the US ... I don't know about other countries) apply to physical objects, etc ... but cannot hold sway over the rights conferred by third parties.
I agree with you ... a license CAN also be inherently joint property ... but ONLY if the grantor permits it to be. The grantor retains any rights that they wish ... they are the true "owners" of the object (software, etc) that is being licensed. That's why we don't get the source code when we buy Libronix (humor intended here).
Thanks for your courteous and gracious reply. I hope I've clarified what I meant.
In His service, and yours ...
Jim
=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
JimDean said:
Hi, Ted:
The post was not directed to anyone in particular, just an attempt to defuse the tension and to help people to be content with what the Lord has provided them through the hard work of the folks at Libronix, and through the many godly people who've written the books we enjoy.
I sometimes get in trouble when I attempt to couch comments in a humorous manner ... I should forbear that tendency in open forums. I had no intention to attack or insult anyone.
Libronix has chosen, in *their* EULA, to specifically exclude other members of the family. There were some comments about this. I was trying to point out that the "joint property" laws (in the US ... I don't know about other countries) apply to physical objects, etc ... but cannot hold sway over the rights conferred by third parties.
I agree with you ... a license CAN also be inherently joint property ... but ONLY if the grantor permits it to be. The grantor retains any rights that they wish ... they are the true "owners" of the object (software, etc) that is being licensed. That's why we don't get the source code when we buy Libronix (humor intended here).
Thanks for your courteous and gracious reply. I hope I've clarified what I meant.
In His service, and yours ...
Jim
JimDean said:I sometimes get in trouble when I attempt to couch comments in a humorous manner ... I should forbear that tendency in open forums. I had no intention to attack or insult anyone.
No i did not think this of you, no never, no never! I thought perhaps b/cos i responded to George's post to RQuanstrom i may have been mistaken/ confused for RQuanstrom. I saw George's post to RQuanstrom & thought that settles it for me & responded to the effect to let my thoughts known.
Thanks for showing maturity and indulging me in the way you have handled this in Christian charity. I hope i do the same to others.
Yours in Christ,
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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