a question from an Accordance User
Comments
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Same. Even though I have the Accordance "All-in-All" library because I worked for Accordance for over 20 years, I never open it anymore. It has forced me to become more comfortable with Logos, and I've realized there's nothing in my Accordance workflow that I can't replicate in Logos.
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I believe the old debate of 'Accordance' versus 'Logos' is akin to the Windows vs. Mac argument for 99.9% of use cases. Each platform has its strengths and weaknesses. If I were stranded on a desert island with only one of them, I could happily study the Bible for the rest of my life. However, I have been 'bilingual' on both platforms for many years, thus I grew up with both. We certainly have cool tools.
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Smiling, but I'm not so sure about that (L vs A as just different approaches). Though, I don't know enough about Windows vs Mac to know systems-wise.
But Logos vs Accordance, I do know that the day Logos arrived in my mailbox, was the day I was in business (feeding my hungry linguistic neural nets). That was almost 20 years ago, and 20 years later, Accordance still won't do what I needed to do then.
Now, I'm absolutely sure (judging from this thread) that there's things Logos literally can't do, and Accordance can, which some users absolutely need to do. I also don't see either platform 'budging', primarily due to legacy development vs market size. And indeed, when one of them keels over, it's doubtful the other will add needed features missing. WYSIWYG.
(Ironically, mathematical neural nets are modern day versions of ancient Mot … ravenous, casting to and fro for whom they can devour!)
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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It's been years since Accordance released a major update, and even then there are promised features missing that have never been added. Since the release of version 14, they've let all their full-time programmers go (and much of their staff, including most of their content developers). Accordance mentioned on their forums that they're looking for web developers, which would indicate that they're going to be focusing on a web version (since the Accordance code base is written in Objective Pascal). That's probably not a bad idea, but creating a web version that has complete feature parity with the desktop app takes years. Logos's web app is amazing, and far ahead of any other Bible software platform, but even with the team of developers that Logos has, their web version doesn't have complete feature parity with the desktop.
So don't expect to see any new advanced features in Accordance anytime soon (if ever). On the other hand, Logos can do everything I need Bible software to do (and much more). They're constantly adding new features and new resources, and I can use Logos on every device I own. I don't have the time to waste keeping up with two Bible software platforms, so I'm all-in with Logos.3 -
I would love for Logos to have a deal for ex accordance users. i.e pay x amount of money and have the same resources in Logos that you have in Accordance
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Hi @Mark Allison,
I am pretty sure most of what I do in Accordance can be replicated in one way or another in Logos (even if a little clunkier). However, the one exception which is what really forces me to use Accordance is the fact that I can have as many Workspaces open in Accordance as I want (I have had over 30 open before without it crashing), and each of these workspaces average 15-20 tabs. So Logos allowing only one Layout open at a time is truly not workable. Even with the floating windows, the floating window is always linked to the primary layout, but with my Workspaces (the Logos Layout equiv), the whole point is that the Workspaces are all addressing different projects which are not connected to each other.
As a simplistic, but realistic, example, in Accordance I often have my personal study workspace and my class workspace (which I use for teaching) open at the same time. These two Workspaces are fundamentally needed to be kept separate, but I sometimes refer to my personal workspace during a class.
You mentioned that Logos is, "constantly adding new features and new resources," if they finally let people have multiple layouts open (which I have learned from the forums is a long time want of Logos users), would this be a fundamental change that effects everyone, or would it be a "feature"? I am concerned since they moved to that subscription model, which I am flatout not able to do. I understand you don't work for Logos, but your comment just made me think of this.1 -
This would be a wonderful improvement that could potentially affect everyone. You brought up a good point. How would you add a fundamental change without affecting all users, both subscribers and non-subscribers? I suppose they could add it as an option to be turned on and make it subscriber only. If they did that, I would think it should qualify as part of the fallback license for sure. Ideally, it would be a simple enhancement available for everyone. Good things to think about and I definitely hope to see this feature one way or another in the near future. Just my two cents :-)
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@Kristin I know nothing about Logos's plans for future development, but I believe that having as much feature parity as possible across devices is important to them. If that's indeed the case, then multiple workspaces in the sense that you're describing isn't something that would translate well to mobile devices. Because of that, I'd assume that it's a very low priority for them.
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Hi @Mark Allison ,
I hope you aren't right, but I think what you said makes sense. :( That would basically make Logos close to unusable for people with complex workflows. :( I really hope Accordance remains functional for the rest of my career (and life for that matter).
On the other hand, while what you said makes sense, I really hope that someone at Logos can think outside of the box and realize that there is A LOT which is sacrificed when something is restricted to be used on mobile. I know some Logos users have sort of "made it work" by having the app open as one layout, and then the web version open as a second layout which really shows it is a need users perceive. If the Logos app itself was truly functional, people wouldn't need to resort to such internet dependent workarounds.
I guess here's to hoping Accordance remains up and running.
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Hi @Mark Allison . I definitely can see why Logos may want to have feature parity on all devices. However, all devices are not equally capable or usable in the same way. If they were consistent with that philosophy, the our features wolud be limited by the abilities of the least capable device. The fact that a feature doesn;t work on a 7" screen should not limit the abilities of the software. If the desktop and web have the ability to do what the cellphone can't do, it's still a win. I want the software to get better, not dumber. There are power users who have needs as well as textual scholars. If you are going to market to both ends of the spectrum then you have to provide needed features for both. Otherwise, they would just dump Logos Max as an option. Just another perspective :-)
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It is not likely that the contracts they have with the copyrighter holders would allow this.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I guess here's to hoping Accordance remains up and running.
I have concluded that Accordance will only survive with bold, decisive action (new owner/CEO) and a clear turnaround plan. Otherwise, their days are numbered. The opportunity for small incremental improvements is gone.
Logos buying out Accordance is now a fire sale. The value of the business will not be what it was several years ago, even just in terms of the reputational damage it has suffered from several years of mismanagement and falling further behind in technological developments.
If Logos designs a migration deal, it will depend on the value of adding another user to their business, and their acquisition cost will justify any discount they offer. The issue is that this transition is already occurring, and as time progresses, there will be fewer and fewer reasons for them to pursue this from a business standpoint when users, in many cases, will likely wind up here anyhow. (I am not saying this because Logos is superior, but rather, where else is the competition?)
Perhaps I am mistaken, and this is too large of a mouthful of a fictitious reality sandwich, but I have ceased spending money on Accordance because of what I observed happened with QuickVerse. If I am incorrect, I can resume my investment, but I see more risk than potential benefit at this stage.
It is a sad state of affairs.
YMMV 😕
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Right. Logos could offer a large discount, but the discount would come from Logos's end, not the publishers. And what does Logos have to gain by doing that? If users are leaving Accordance (and they are), they're going to come to Logos anyway. And Logos certainly doesn't have any desire to buy a bunch of code written in Objective Pascal.
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@Steven MacDonald I think Logos can have the best of both worlds, but they're not going to copy Accordance features. They'll probably rethink some Accordance features to see if they can make Accordance users feel a little more comfortable. Accordance did the same thing for BibleWorks users. So, for example, I don't see Logos redesigning the app to allow for 30 workspaces at a time, but they could allow for tabbed layouts that can easily be cycled through. And tabs work on mobile devices.
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@Mark Allison I definitely agree and those attempts would be welcomed. There is definitely more than one way to implement something.
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The situation is far from ideal and, as an IT guy, I will continue to protect my investments. I still have BibleWorks running on a virtual machine and will do the same with Accordance just in case. If the software breaks at a certain point, I can always roll the software back to a point where it still worked and freeze it. The loss only occurs if it stops working and intend to keep them running as long as the technology allows :-)
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I admit, I do not have much experience with the multiple workspaces features of Accordance. Does the use of "Saved Layouts" not allow similar function (Sometimes quite "clunky" depending on the "depth/intensity" of the Saved Layout), as I cycle through Saved Layouts fairly simply (though as mentioned, sometimes slow or clunky)
It would be nice to have the ability to allow separate layouts on multiple screens
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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It would be a good start if you could easily tab through your saved layouts, and if they would automatically save changes. To the best of my knowledge, you can't do either.
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It's two clicks to switch between Saved Layouts and two clicks to update the current layout, if for example you make a change to a Saved Layout
Edit (I am on the Classic Toolbar Setup, I am not sure if these actions have changed with the toolbar changes)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Almost forgot - CTRL - ALT - L will save/update the current Layout as well, without need for clicks
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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I think Logos can have the best of both worlds, but they're not going to copy Accordance features. They'll probably rethink some Accordance features to see if they can make Accordance users feel a little more comfortable.
Regarding multiple workspaces, perhaps a win/win would be to implement it in a fashion similar to what Arc Browser does. I have a personal workspace, a work workspace and a biblical studies workspace.
https://resources.arc.net/hc/en-us/articles/19228064149143-Spaces-Distinct-Browsing-Areas
This keeps the UI simple for those wanting a static workspace experience but allows power users to load multiple layouts simultaneously.
I will be cheeky and tag @Mark Barnes (Logos) and @Bradley Grainger (Logos) in this thread. It costs nothing to suggest…
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I hope Logos will allow one to do more regex (regular expression type searches), for example, searching on vowel points and patterns irrespective of the consonants in Hebrew text. The 'Search Matching Commands' currently does not allow for this. Also, regex would allow for searching on combination of accents and vowels which Logos also is not able to do.
I understand this isn't a feature that is going to get the majority of people to pull out their walets and pocket books.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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What would be really cool is if Logos could us AI to allow natural language searches. "Find every qamets chatuph in the Pentateuch."
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If they did that I would be a lot more tempted to join a Logos subscription plan, however, I would also like to be able to run the same type regular expression searches manually as well.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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Hi @Frank Sauer,
The advantage of the multiple workspaces is that I can have them all open at the same time. So I can have one workspace with 20 tabs on the right side of my screen, and another workspace open with 20 tabs on the left side of my screen, and another workspace with 20 tabs open on the right side of my second monitor, and another open with 20 tabs open on the left side of my second monitor, and another workspace with 20 tabs minimized. All the workspaces are all named of course, but each tab has also been named by me, keeping it ultra organized and I can view everything at once. Then I have Skype or Zoom open over it and I can move that window off to the side so it is not covering anything, and I can view everything at once.
In reality I have far more open, but having the ability to have four open and viewable at the same time is the bare minimum. With the Logos layout, I can only see one at a time, and as the video meeting progresses, I can only see part of the information at once, or be constantly opening and closing layouts as the meeting continues, and neither of those options are functional.
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+1 - I have been interested in what AI can do in searches, as well as helping us make connections in the 'Text Comparison Tool' 👍️
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That would be a nice addition for a multi monitor setup
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Since you never open Accordance any longer - do they offer the "Account Transfer" that Logos does? You may be able to sell it and have a nice Logos expansion budget from the proceeds…
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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I think that since it was given to me when I left Accordance and I didn't actually purchase it, that it wouldn't transfer since none of the publishers received any royalties from it. Would be nice though :-)
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I would even be willing to sign something saying I won't use them in Accordance anymore.
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