What makes Logos 7 better than 6?
Just curious. I've got quite an extensive library but quit upgrading after Logos 6. Is there any reason to upgrade? What new features in the crossgrade/packages make worth it for you?
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Hey John, I believe it is worth it. It depends on what you use Logos for honestly. I think Logos Now is a great option for you. It gives you all the new features as well as the new ones they release every 6 weeks or so. Also, Bible Browser is a Logos Now feature that is really cool. Again you could just buy the full feature set too without getting more books.
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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I mostly use Logos for Mobile Ed, so Courses tool and Multiview are the two new features I use daily. I also really appreciate the Quickstart Layout options.
Depending on your needs, you might be satisfied with the free L7 Core Engine, due out in February. It really depends on whether you need anything offered in the feature pack, or Logos Now subscription (for the online-only features).
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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PetahChristian said:
Logos Now subscription (for the online-only features).
Logos 7.2 includes Fuzzy Bible Search for Logos Now and Verbum Now (and Cloud subscribers: plus or higher)
Searching for a phrase that is not in the Bible finds many references to consider.
Lord helps those who help themselves
Searching for words that do appear in the same verse also finds more references to consider
thanks everything
Logos wiki has Online Only that includes three more features that are available only to Now members or Cloud subscribers:
Bible Browser
Logos Now or Verbum NowLemma in Passage
Logos Now , Verbum Now , Logos Cloud or Verbum Cloud (Cloud subscription needs Plus or higher)Logos Web App (Beta) Logos Now , Verbum Now , Logos Cloud or Verbum Cloud
Keep Smiling [:)]
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PetahChristian said:
Logos Now subscription (for the online-only features).
LOL glad for this search to prove that this popular saying is not from Scripture [;)]
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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Logos 7 comes with the following. I've marked my favorites with <== but depending on your use, yours will vary.
What's Included in Logos 7
New to Logos 7.0 Release
Datasets
- Figurative Language of New Testament: a fresh analysis of the NT's figurative language <==
- Longacre Genre Analysis: an application of Longacre's genre schema to the Bible
- Sentence Types of New Testament: an analysis of all sentences in the NT into declarative, interrogative, and exclamatory
- Speech Acts of the New Testament: similar to the above, but using speech acts
- Hebrew Grammatical Constructions: a database that identifies many key constructions in Hebrew
Features
- Bible Browser (subscription only): a faceted browsing tool for accessing our rich data on the Bible by simply using your mouse instead of learning complicated search syntax
- Sermon Editor: a new tool for building your sermon manuscript, outline, handout, and slides right in Logos.
- Courses: a guided learning platform for working through Mobile Ed courses and other structured learning content
- Quickstart Layouts: starting points that integrate content and tools around a task or theme
Interactives
- Exploring Bible Manuscripts: an educational interactive guide through biblical manuscripts
- An Empty Tomb: a look inside a first-century tomb that sheds light on the setting for Jesus' burial
- Text Comparison Interlinear New Testament dataset: the data that backs the new Text Comparison interlinear view
Improved Previous and Logos Now Features
- Text Comparison Tool: infinite scroll and a new interlinear view that organizes translations against the underlying Greek or Hebrew text
- Media Tool: a way to find and create sharable media (combines Visual Copy and Media Browser)
- Biblical Event Navigator: new UI
- Miracles of the Bible: added bubble visualizations
Interlinears
- Lexham Dead Sea Scrolls Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible
- Lexham Latin-English Interlinear Vulgate Bible<==
- The Latin-Greek Reverse Interlinear Vulgate Deuterocanonical Old Testament <==
- The Latin-Greek Reverse Interlinear Vulgate New Testament<==
- The Latin-Greek Reverse Interlinear Vulgate: Deuterocanonical Old Testament, Variant Alignments<==
- The Latin-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Vulgate Old Testament<==
- The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Deuterocanonical Old Testament Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition<==
Media Collections
- Faithlife Animations (subscription only)
- deSilva Teaching Materials, vol. 2 (subscription only)
- Mars Hill Media Collection (subscription only)
- Lexham Bible Dictionary Videos (subscription only)
Resources
Other Logos 7 Features
Datasets
- Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters (Subscription Only)
- New Feature: Cascadia Syntax Graphs of LXX Deuterocanon and Apocrypha
- Miracles of the Bible <==
- Syntactic Force
- Speaking to God <==
- Proverbs Explorer, vol. 2
- Biblical Theologies Section
- Israelite Sacrifices
- Reported Speech, Speakers, and Addressees for Deuterocanon<==
- New Testament Use of the Old<==
- Confessional Documents Section<==
- Proverbs Explorer Dataset<==
- Bullinger's Figures of Speech Dataset<==
- Addressees in Reported Speech <==
- Greek Grammatical Constructions
- Old Testament Propositional Bible Outlines
- Psalms Explorer Dataset <==
- RSVCE Hebrew Old Testament Reverse Interlinear
- Systematic Theologies Section
Features
- Logos web app (Access to the beta of the Logos web app; Subscription only)
- Lemma in Passage (Subscription only)
- Emphasize Active Lemmas
- Link a Lexicon to a Bible
- Custom Home Page Layouts
- Personal Letters Section
- Reader's Edition Interlinear
- Corresponding Notes and Highlights<==
- Passage List Visual Filter<==
- Concordance <==
- Corresponding Words Visual Filter <==
- Courses Tool
- Grammars guide section
- Greek Grammatical Constructions guide section
- Media Tool
- Multiview Resources <==
Interactives
- Miracles of the Bible <==
- Speaking to God <==
- Systematic Theologies Interactive
- Hebrew Bible Manuscript Explorer<==
- Names of God: Deuterocanon <==
- Proverbs Explorer, vol. 2<==
- New Testament Use of the Old Testament <==
- Synopsis of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles<==
- Before and After Vol 2
- Commandments of the Law<==
- Names of God Interactive
- Narrative Character Maps Vol 2
- New Testament Manuscript Explorer <==
- Septuagint Manuscript Explorer<==
Resources
Media
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hey thanks everyone for your input it means a lot!
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Is 7 better than 6? That's quite an assumption, since none of the newer versions is better than 3, and a billion new whiz bang features can never fix what's broke when design flaws are baked into every new release.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Is 7 better than 6? That's quite an assumption, since none of the newer versions is better than 3
Logic alert! 7 can be better than 6 even if 3 is the best IYO.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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[Y] Since I started out with L6, I can definitely say that L7 is better than L6.MJ. Smith said:David Paul said:Is 7 better than 6? That's quite an assumption, since none of the newer versions is better than 3
Logic alert! 7 can be better than 6 even if 3 is the best IYO.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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PetahChristian said:
Since I started out with L6, I can definitely say that L7 is better than L6.I agree. Same situation, I started with L6.
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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MJ. Smith said:
Logic alert! 7 can be better than 6 even if 3 is the best IYO.
LOL...always trying to catch me in some logic violation. [8-)]
My statement isn't a statement; it's a rhetorical query, based on previous evidence. In view of the common assumption that new things are better than old ones, I simply put forward a thought for consideration. Can 7 be better than 6? Of course, and maybe it is (not having upgraded, I can't say)...but in general regard to this matter, I think Yeishuua` spoke appropriate words of wisdom. "The old is better." L3 certainly is.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Let's be be clear ... the official name of '3' is 'Libby'.
And it's not by accident the Logos team had to introduce 90+ new features in hopes of getting in the same ballpark as Libby. I suspect L8 may need 120+ new features to try to keep up with Libby. The math, obviously, is just not sustainable, and the Logos team exhausted.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Let's be be clear ... the official name of '3' is 'Libby'.
Official support of previous versions has => Libronix Digital Library System (LDLS or Logos 3)
Believe "Libby" did not have Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters:
Logos 7 with Logos Now can show Discourse in many resources plus visually highlight a lot (have created one inductive precept visual filter using <Person> tagging).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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John Graves said:
Is there any reason to upgrade?
I would say, 'no'.
Mainly because a simple upgrade gets you absolutely nothing new. You have to buy a bundle or fork over for the full feature set to get any of the new stuff. There are really only two new items in the full feature set worth having (in my opinion), and these are not available without all the other junk.
If smaller sets of features would be made available at reasonable prices, I'd change my recommendation.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Doc B said:
You have to buy a bundle or fork over for the full feature set to get any of the new stuff.
Alternative is becoming Logos Now or Verbum Now member that includes all the features, including Online Only for membership duration, which may be less expensive than purchasing Full Feature Set
Now membership also includes discount for library purchase(s).
Thankful Logos Now and Verbum Now membership has become worthwhile as Bob Pritchett promised.
Note: if want to rent resource access plus features, then can subscribe to Logos Cloud or Verbum Cloud
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Doc B said:John Graves said:
Is there any reason to upgrade?
I would say, 'no'.
Mainly because a simple upgrade gets you absolutely nothing new
Yes, there is as one gets bug repairs and the continuing maintenance as well as improvements to existing features ... and you don't have to keep you eyes open for when Faithlife drops support for your version.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Doc B said:John Graves said:
Is there any reason to upgrade?
I would say, 'no'.
Mainly because a simple upgrade gets you absolutely nothing new
Yes, there is as one gets bug repairs and the continuing maintenance as well as improvements to existing features ... and you don't have to keep you eyes open for when Faithlife drops support for your version.
This can be achieved by waiting for (and then installing) the free Logos 7 Base Engine, due to be released in February. This is also the chief advantage of that free engine.
Purchasing a Feature Set (separately or with a Base Package) also brings the new features sold with whichever Feature Set you purchase. Others have extolled Logos Now and its benefits.
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I chose not to upgrade. I do not find anything of value in doing so.
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Virgil Buttram said:
This can be achieved by waiting for (and then installing) the free Logos 7 Base Engine, due to be released in February.
This is what I assumed "a simple upgrade" meant.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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M.J.
Thank you for your extensive listing. I have been with Logos/FaithLife from v3 on and have always had the same complaint: the user interface leaves a lot to be desired. Whenever I attempt to go beyond the bare minimum usage of a feature, such as some form of search, the parameters I include rarely provide results. Supplying the correct combination of parameters is very hard because as one moves down the chain, Logos does not indicate which values will return results. That's just one problem.
After so many years, I am getting tired of Logos because the system seems to be good for using for its own sake but doesn't seem designed for real research. Maybe its just the way I like to work, but I've had many problems.
Another characteristic I take exception with is the tendency for Logos developers to develop obscure language tools. I've never heard a sermon that depended on any of these methods of analysis.
I could go on but that's enough for now.
If you care to reply, I'd like to ask you a question: Do you believe Logos is primarily made for those with an advanced religious degree?
Thank you,
Steve
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Steve said:
the user interface leaves a lot to be desired.
Do you have some specific suggestions for Logos? They response to concrete suggestions.
Steve said:Do you believe Logos is primarily made for those with an advanced religious degree?
No, I definitely do not. I do believe - advanced degrees tend to train for more attention to detail than Logos exhibits/encourages. However, that it is designed for the type of user who doesn't require training but is a "learn by trying" sort ... and for people willing to play loose and easy with precision.
Steve said:tendency for Logos developers to develop obscure language tools
With the exception of the multiplicity of discourse grammar tools, I am more concerned with the retention of tools of historical importance (Strongs) rather than moving to more modern/accurate tools. I do, however, understand that Logos finds this necessary for marketing purposes.
Steve said:I've never heard a sermon that depended on any of these methods of analysis.
With a handful of exceptions, I don't believe that the method of analysis should be visible in the sermon.
Steve said:but doesn't seem designed for real research
What kind of research are you looking for? I find it a mixed bag on research but generally adequate. I know some individuals who are seriously into academic research who find it useful.
Steve said:Maybe its just the way I like to work, but I've had many problems.
Can you give some examples of the problems you've had? Had you come onto the forum to seek advice and take advantage of others' experience?
Steve said:such as some form of search, the parameters I include rarely provide results. Supplying the correct combination of parameters is very hard because as one moves down the chain,
Again have you utilized the forums to learn the rules? It's a case of trial-and-error, question answers and careful verification until the basics become natural ..
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Well, MJ,
You certainly responded. Thank you and I will do my best to respond.
- I actually have provided concrete suggestions, but they seem to have fallen on deaf ears.
- I can hardly believe your response to my advanced degrees issue. The exegesis tool is out of this world. Have you examined Lenski's commentary on the NT? Or Kittel? These products require so much Greek and grammar knowledge.
- Sermon preparation can be evident in the presentation. A very technical presentation will lead to sophisticated comments that will leave hearers lost. That's why they're not used.
- Research I'm doing would benefit from some artificial intelligence. Simple things like synonym matching or interrogating forums for similar questions/queries.
- Try the Sense feature. If you don't use a biblical word as a starting point, it can't find scripture that convey your idea.
- I have used the forum once when it was very helpful. Will do so more often.
- I don't do trial-and-error. It's the hacker's way of learning. I like training material.
- I've also requested more realistic references. Case in point: Logos recently release a reference that was so absurd to me that I commented on it. I don't exactly remember the title, but it was something like "Map of the Chaldean Universe." How irrelevant.
Thanks, MJ,
Steve
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MJ,
I actually don't understand why the software Logos staff worked so hard on and cost so much to develop should be free.
Steve
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Steve said:
How irrelevant.
What is or is not relevant is dependent upon your interests. It is important to recognize that what interests Denise most is not what interests myself most is not what interests George most ... for nearly a million users.
Steve said:I can hardly believe your response to my advanced degrees issue. The exegesis tool is out of this world.
You indicated "advanced degree" ... undergraduates with an interest in linguistics, philology, Greek etc. would find these quite accessible. And I know a number of people without even undergraduate degrees who have taught themselves at least that level of knowledge. Again it is a matter of interest, motivation, tenacity ...
Steve said:Try the Sense feature. If you don't use a biblical word as a starting point, it can't find scripture that convey your idea.
That is because it is Bible Sense Lexicon - meaning that the domain it covers is Biblical words. I can refer you to a more generic English Sense Lexicon which also supports more relationships than the BSL. But this is indicative of a problem Faithlife frequently hits. When providing "state-of-the-art" tools, they often feel more like prototypes. The questions are (a) is it more helpful than nothing and (b) will it help develop a better version?
Steve said:Research I'm doing would benefit from some artificial intelligence. Simple things like synonym matching
I'd like to see more development this direction (and in visualization tools as well). Tools such as the BSL are a step towards more AI as the tool arose from AI research.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Steve said:
I actually don't understand why the software Logos staff worked so hard on and cost so much to develop should be free.
I'm not a business type person so my opinion probably isn't worth much but I suspect there is less overhead in bundling the software cost into the resources than in managing separate versions of the code based upon the features one has purchased.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Steve, you're not asking me, so I'll chime in with a tiny point.
Years back the Logos CEO talked of a vision of people being able to learn, study, research, etc on their own. As they wish. I've been an unfair critic of the CEO, but on this single point rests maybe $30,000 of my money spent. And the journey has been most enjoyable. Each new rabbit hole I found had new information, ideas, and wrong turns as well. I attended Bible college ... I was both bored and convinced there had to be more ... and there was.
Needed to save people as per the great commission? Of course not .... believe and be saved. Nothing more complicated. But oh so interesting.
People say it should be easier ... I agree, given the CEO's expressed vision. Learning it is a long frustrating slog. Worth it to many, yes. Most? Probably not. But it's the opportunity that didn't exist earlier. I'm thankful.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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MJ,
That doesn't make sense to me. First off, those who just buy the latest engine get their resources updated for free, too. So that unfairly shifts the costs of development to new buyers and those who buy new resources. Second, though I imagine what you say is possible, I fear the calculation might be a nightmare scenario. It would be simpler to just charge for the engine and resources on their own.
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Steve said:
First off, those who just buy the latest engine get their resources updated for free, too.
This doesn't sound quite right to me. One's resources get updated for free irrespective of whether one buys a new engine. So I think of it as the cost of a resource includes the ongoing costs of maintaining it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ makes an exacting point, though Steve's point is also good ... buyers fund maintenance. Buyers also fund new non-book businesses ... Proclaim, etc though Proclaim is paying its way now, per Bob. So I'd assume Logos is building up a war chest for a new business line. It's from the huge L7 rollout, complete with next weeks bundles (or the week after that). It's Thanksgiving.
But contra Steve, I wish you could turn OFF all that Logos largesse. More often then not (almost always not), I don't need updates and I get them anyway (cellular gigs) if I buy anything (turn the connect on). Logos says often the book update is needed to avoid software problems, which is the definition of poor design. Granted a redo every 5-6 years is not uncommon among book software people.
Then ... there's the issue of not-package buyers (me) ... quite often I pay full price and get no brownie points for my largesse. So, I return the favor with gusto.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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.....Mr. Graves, there is no reason to upgrade imho. Just go with Logos Now is my advice. Its also not worth it but at least you can see what nuanced developments (as in superfluous) changes Logos is making then and make use of them.
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Computers are relatively new in our history and I just think upgrading to L7 and paying for it is some benevolent funding for the further development. We might get some occasional bonus: an additional useful feature. Having good Bible software is one way to reach future generations.
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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John Graves said:
Just curious. I've got quite an extensive library but quit upgrading after Logos 6. Is there any reason to upgrade? What new features in the crossgrade/packages make worth it for you?
I would not worry about an "upgrade" to a Logos 7 base package. What I would do is to subscribe to Logos Now and that will get you all the features of Logos 7; at least until Logos changes that and makes people purchase a base package, like they did in the past, because they are not making enough money.
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